^^^ very interesting value added comment there.

Bojangles is a solid guy and member. I am not sure we need to doubt what he is saying.

I think we need to stop applying generalizations to people on this forum. Most guys on this forum are achieving most than the average guy. You can tell just by how the present themselves on the forum that they have their acts together.

(09-13-2015 04:49 AM)sven1985 Wrote:  You must be a hunk then. Here in Warsaw I have never seen an Indian guy with hot white gf. There are lots of Indian guys working in my office building in the central part of the city. They always hang out outside of the building in groups never accompanied by local women.

You can be an 8-looks male and never be approached by women.

If you approach, have good Game, are at least slim and well-dressed, then any Indian guy can get a Polish girlfriend or fuck many slim and decently attractive girls. What you are missing is that Polish girls have no bad experiences or strange preconceptions with Indian man. Also you will find a small subgroup of Polish girls who are into Bollywood movies - then your Indian heritage is even a big plus.

Working in Warsaw, standing around in groups, associating only with their own kind, then never approaching - this kind of anti-game will get you nothing. You would literally have to be a tall 8-9 almost model man to be approached by drunk 6es, which is then not real Game since a guy like that should be approaching prime girls and not pick up girls who he can get with a "Hi."

Hey guys,

For those who have lived in Prague, how would you compare the cost of living to Warsaw/Krakow/Wroclaw?

Sven the difference is I'm not an Indian guy from India, I'm an Indian guy from the UK. I don't walk like those Indian guys at your work, I don't talk like those Indian guys at your work and I don't dress like those Indian guy at your work. I can't lie, I've not done a single cold approach here at all. All of my approaches have been warm. There's plenty of Spanish, Arabs, Indians and so on here in krakow. I've not figured out what the value add I have is but it's certainly not looks.

And Chazz stop fucking sending me the same PM over and over, I'm not going to answer it. You're acting like a thirsty Indian guy.

(09-13-2015 06:47 AM)bojangles Wrote:  Sven the difference is I'm not an Indian guy from India, I'm an Indian guy from the UK. I don't walk like those Indian guys at your work, I don't talk like those Indian guys at your work and I don't dress like those Indian guy at your work. I can't lie, I've not done a single cold approach here at all. All of my approaches have been warm. There's plenty of Spanish, Arabs, Indians and so on here in krakow. I've not figured out what the value add I have is but it's certainly not looks.

And Chazz stop fucking sending me the same PM over and over, I'm not going to answer it. You're acting like a thirsty Indian guy.

First of all, sorry dude. I don't know why that pm was sent 12 times. Definitely not done intentionally.

Maybe what's adding to your success it the fact that they are warm approaches. It might mainly be a matter of access for these girls. Without your being in a situation where you're already around these girls, they would never get a chance to meet you. Also, having Polish friends, might act almost like a "pre-qualification", you're vetted. You must be normal, if not cool, if you're an outsider who has Polish friends.

Landed in Krakow 2 days ago. Will be based here for the next few months. I've been told that the population here is ~800,000 + 200,000 students, many of who live outside of Krakow but move back to the city when classes start (early October).

I'm already enjoying it here so I'm having trouble imagining it with an additional 100,000 or so Polish college-aged girls. Sounds like the potential is incredible...

I've done around 10 day approaches so far and gotten a few numbers but none of them seem like sure bets yet. Yesterday I met some fellow day-gamers I had bumped into in Prague. One of the guys and I met up later and street trolled the street where Frantic/Shakers club is + the old town square a little bit. The girls were very approachable and agreed to plans to meetup later this weekend so I'm eager to see what happens.

Around 1:30 my buddy and I ended up approaching a pair of girls visiting from Warsaw. They told us they had been drinking and were looking for another cool bar to check out, so after about 20 minutes of chit-chatting I suggested stopping at my place just a few minutes away to share a bottle of hard green apple cider (my apartment host left this for me when I moved in).

Spent 2 hours at my place sharing drinks while the girls intermittently stepped out onto my balcony to smoke cigarettes...the friend wouldn't leave my girl and I so I had trouble escalating and by 4 I just said fuck it and walked them out. Was disappointed in myself for not trying harder to isolate one of them but at the same time I feel like they had come over to drink 'as friends' and didn't have much interest in fucking. Weird to admit, but it just didn't feel 'on' once they were back at my place.

In America I'm used to having sex when a girl agrees to come back for a drink past 1am on a weekend, but here it looks like I need to screen better.

A good first weekend nevertheless, looking forward to what happens next.

(09-13-2015 08:13 AM)Chazz Wrote:  Maybe what's adding to your success it the fact that they are warm approaches. It might mainly be a matter of access for these girls. Without your being in a situation where you're already around these girls, they would never get a chance to meet you. Also, having Polish friends, might act almost like a "pre-qualification", you're vetted. You must be normal, if not cool, if you're an outsider who has Polish friends.

I'm a brown Asian-American in Gdansk, and I just insta-dated a girl here to a kiss from cold approach. Not knocking warm social circle approaches (wish I had them!), and certainly not saying I get that lucky frequently (damn it!), but I am saying that if you've got your shit and your Game together, you can succeed, regardless of race/height/etc.

Nobody has doubts about the consideration that Krakow is definitely an upgrade compared to UK. And also I can agree that compared to other Polish cities, nightife is better than the awful attitudes and sausage fests you can find in average klubs in Poznan, Warsaw and Wroclaw for instance.
But I am always skeptical about these "performances", since I widely know the field and both foreigners and local girls. Also for the "top tier" guys and foreigners with status who can be defined as insiders, Krakow atmosphere is getting worse day after day, especially due to the massive invasion of tourists mainly British. You can do well but it takes time and also creating social connections is not something achievable in a weekend or four weeks, but it requieres extensive efforts.
Many guys have the tendence to create big stories when the reality is different...you can in fact read that he was speaking about super day game and then told that he has never cold-approached, where is the truth?

Well I didn't have the friends when I arrived, I made those friends through work and through Facebook events, in fact the only person I had was Krauser.

Yes I've not done cold approaches as in hit on girls I've not got IOIs from, why? Because it's been rare not to get one. Spider is in town and I'll hopefully hang out with him. Maybe he can shed some light on what I'm experiencing, who knows?

You are probably experiencing the golden time of every beginner in Poland. A step everybody has dealt with. It's a positive to have enthusiasm, but what are you celebrating is far and different from the situation in front of my eyes and in the words of my friends. Ioi everywhere, mhhh. Btw in October is gonna improving since students will be back in town.
But I repeat...you are not in Kitsch in 2009.

I have no fucking idea what you're talking about...I've been in Poland many times before. I'm sorry you don't have the same experience, unlucky bro.

An Indian guy with western style can easily clean up in Europe, I witnessed it first hand in Ukraine. And plus I don't get the stereotype against Indians, Slim Indian girls can be insanely attractive, I had a few of them as friends in high school and now looking at their facebook profile, they've become very attractive indeed. So if a slim Indian girl can be attractive, why can't a fit Indian guy be?

The only place Indians are gonna have trouble is Thailand, they're hugely stereotyped there because tbh a lot of thirsty Indian dudes come on a budget and ruin it for the rest of them. Same goes for Turks in Poland, Ukraine.

(09-13-2015 02:23 PM)Giacomo Casanova Wrote:  Nobody has doubts about the consideration that Krakow is definitely an upgrade compared to UK. And also I can agree that compared to other Polish cities, nightife is better than the awful attitudes and sausage fests you can find in average klubs in Poznan, Warsaw and Wroclaw for instance.
But I am always skeptical about these "performances", since I widely know the field and both foreigners and local girls. Also for the "top tier" guys and foreigners with status who can be defined as insiders, Krakow atmosphere is getting worse day after day, especially due to the massive invasion of tourists mainly British. You can do well but it takes time and also creating social connections is not something achievable in a weekend or four weeks, but it requieres extensive efforts.
Many guys have the tendence to create big stories when the reality is different...you can in fact read that he was speaking about super day game and then told that he has never cold-approached, where is the truth?

It totally depends on where you compare Poland with. I've not met a single Turk who has went to Poland and came back dissatisfied. The gaming field is much easier compared to Turkey and the girls are much more warm. I did my erasmus in Krakow 3 years ago, I had 0 game, didn't know about the manosphere and even I got laid 4 times in 3 months. If I went to Poland now I'm pretty sure that I'll do much much better.

Using the whole British tourists destroying narrative is stupid too, you make it sound as though they've only just arrived. They've been destroying krakow for 15 years. How have they suddenly started making more of an effect now? The effect has always been there. Same in Budapest, Prague, Bratislava and numerous other destinations in Europe.

(09-14-2015 07:04 AM)bojangles Wrote:  Using the whole British tourists destroying narrative is stupid too, you make it sound as though they've only just arrived. They've been destroying krakow for 15 years. How have they suddenly started making more of an effect now? The effect has always been there. Same in Budapest, Prague, Bratislava and numerous other destinations in Europe.

The flow is increasing, in my opinion due to the number of low cost flights from UK that is growing year by year. They even organize some pub crawls with hundreds of english speakers together hanging out on the street. In July and August seems like to be in Liverpool.
Btw, you have just arrived, still two/three years ago Krakow was a different city.

(09-14-2015 01:23 AM)bojangles Wrote:  I have no fucking idea what you're talking about...I've been in Poland many times before. I'm sorry you don't have the same experience, unlucky bro.

In fact, you haven't idea of what Kitsch was
The big difference is not in the good experience itself, but in announcing to the public in the way you are doing.
I would like again to underline that the status of foreigner itself decreases the value in the approach. A foreigner with a good job, look and status, speaking a little bit the language, and with a broad knowledge of the local dynamics would achieve different results.

It depends what kind of quality girls you are getting. I mean, regardless your age, ethnicity, background, etc. if you have average-above look and some game you can clean it up. But you will clean mostly 6s and time to time a 7. On a rarely basis you can get a 8.

That's why there is this misunderstanding about Poland. If a guy with some game and ok look is going to Poland, he will definitely get laid more than expected. In the other hand, I'm pretty sure he won't get 8+. But he will write down here how it is easy to get laid, etc.

That's why it is important in my opinion to take everything that's written about Poland with a grain of salt.

In 2 years in Krakow, I think I have never seen a foreigner hand to hand with a 8 in the street. Most of the couples I know here (foreigner - polish girl), the girls are within the range 5-7. In the other hand, if I take the couples where both are polish, there is a lot of 8-9. Even if the polish guy is below-average with beta attitude. But well, it is Poland.

For instance, I know a friend of mine, a foreigner, in his mid-twenties, very good looking guy, know how to dress, with status (money-job) and speaking a bit of Polish. His girlfriend is a 7 polish girl and in clubs he gets 6-7s even if he is approaching like a maniac. He got some 8s, but it was not very common.

zuma defines better the picture, completely agree.

Aha lads ok you know better but we shall see

Had the same excuses given out for Zagreb on here, but it's fine, I'll go along with the I'm dating 5's

Tip: if I'm going to have adventure sex with a girl - the last thing I would be doing is walking around hand in hand with her. I thought this was common knowledge.

(09-14-2015 11:21 AM)zuma Wrote:  It depends what kind of quality girls you are getting. I mean, regardless your age, ethnicity, background, etc. if you have average-above look and some game you can clean it up. But you will clean mostly 6s and time to time a 7. On a rarely basis you can get a 8.

That's why there is this misunderstanding about Poland. If a guy with some game and ok look is going to Poland, he will definitely get laid more than expected. In the other hand, I'm pretty sure he won't get 8+. But he will write down here how it is easy to get laid, etc.

That's why it is important in my opinion to take everything that's written about Poland with a grain of salt.

In 2 years in Krakow, I think I have never seen a foreigner hand to hand with a 8 in the street. Most of the couples I know here (foreigner - polish girl), the girls are within the range 5-7. In the other hand, if I take the couples where both are polish, there is a lot of 8-9. Even if the polish guy is below-average with beta attitude. But well, it is Poland.

For instance, I know a friend of mine, a foreigner, in his mid-twenties, very good looking guy, know how to dress, with status (money-job) and speaking a bit of Polish. His girlfriend is a 7 polish girl and in clubs he gets 6-7s even if he is approaching like a maniac. He got some 8s, but it was not very common.

My friends who looked like Al qaeda terrorists consistently scored 7's and above in Poland. The fact of the matter is nearly all polish girls who are below 30 and slim are at least 6 and above. So if you score a polish girl who is within the normal bmi range , there is a very high chance that she is a 7. It's very hard to come across a slim and ugly girl in Poland...

Where do you Poland travelers/residents see the country going as far as women and culture in the next ten years or so? According to Roosh things are getting slowly but progressively worse. I'm interested in visiting and possibly expatriating permanently if I like it enough, but the current trajectory of Polish women and culture is an essential factor.

(09-14-2015 11:21 AM)zuma Wrote:  It depends what kind of quality girls you are getting. I mean, regardless your age, ethnicity, background, etc. if you have average-above look and some game you can clean it up. But you will clean mostly 6s and time to time a 7. On a rarely basis you can get a 8.

That's why there is this misunderstanding about Poland. If a guy with some game and ok look is going to Poland, he will definitely get laid more than expected. In the other hand, I'm pretty sure he won't get 8+. But he will write down here how it is easy to get laid, etc.

That's why it is important in my opinion to take everything that's written about Poland with a grain of salt.

In 2 years in Krakow, I think I have never seen a foreigner hand to hand with a 8 in the street. Most of the couples I know here (foreigner - polish girl), the girls are within the range 5-7. In the other hand, if I take the couples where both are polish, there is a lot of 8-9. Even if the polish guy is below-average with beta attitude. But well, it is Poland.

For instance, I know a friend of mine, a foreigner, in his mid-twenties, very good looking guy, know how to dress, with status (money-job) and speaking a bit of Polish. His girlfriend is a 7 polish girl and in clubs he gets 6-7s even if he is approaching like a maniac. He got some 8s, but it was not very common.

But this has nothing to do with the difficulty of 8+.

By far the most difficult aspect of meeting 8+ in Poland is a) They don't speak any English. And I mean yeah, they don't speak any English. Nothing. and b) They get married young. Really young and they aren't really willing to cheat like in western countries.

If your friend spoke fluent Polish and went after younger girls, maybe 17-21 and was only a bit older then he could be rolling in 8-10's.

The thing with these posts is they are written by individuals and every individual is different. You can have two perfectly identical guys and have one thing be different (style of dress, language, determination, etc) and they can get completely different results. Sure if enough guys post the same thing then maybe some trends will come out of it that may be generally useful. But remember we are all individuals.

But each guy is different and some may be worse than you and they may be better than you.

I knew a guy in business school and whenever he didn't get a job offer and someone else did for that company he would say "well it was because of this and this"' he would try and rationalize it in a way where he wouldn't feel bad about being the weaker candidate. And also because he was an asshole and I think it came across.

My point being is unless there is some legit reason to doubt people's claims, maybe we just have to be cool with it that they may be doing better than you. I don't know who it was maybe chazz who was commenting on bojangles' warm introductions and how that would explain it. It was sort of a no duh comment but what should bojangles do? Make a bunch of cold approaches to make guys feel better? He worked on getting that social network.

He is doing well, be happy for him. He is not a bragger, he is a good guy. We should be cheering people on not knocking them down because it didn't happen to you.

I'm slightly buzzed and that is sort of a weak ass excuse for my normally measured words. But if people keep trying to mess with a solid contributor, why would he bother to keep posting? Lots of guys have left for various reasons and it is a shame. You lose institutional knowledge.

And some may say he is painting a bad(unrealistic) picture for others. To that I say bullshit. Your results may vary. You may not put in the right amount of effort. Any asshole that thinks pussy is just gonna jump in your lap is a fucking punk in my book. You have to work at it, wherever you go. You shouldn't cap your potential by shrinking it through realistic expectations. Go there yourself, be open and try. See what happens. Too many guys want to know if they have won before even trying. If you can't enjoy the effort of gaming, you may be disappointed. Because you might not get laid. There are no guarantees.

Any lurker or new guy who wants to go to Poland should be responsible enough to read the Poland thread from the beginning and then would see enough warning signs, etc. IF ANYTHiNG, bojangles' posts present what is achievable. It may not be achieved by you but it is achieveable and that alone can be taken as an encouraging message of keep trying. And don't forget he is friends with Krauser(this has been mentioned before so I am not spillijg some secret). Krauser is pretty top notch gamer who started later and fucking worked at it. You don't think being with friend with Krauser won't help you develop? And bojangles has a blog and has been at this a while.

You guys need to stop barking up the wrong tree.

Does anyone have thoughts about how local income and status might come into play with looks match/mismatches?

I know some people in Krakow who are natives so I can give my thoughts on the matter. I think a sweet spot will be the ''stupid fun chicks'' who are a bit more working class and like the west more than the average Pole. The people I know are in the upper echelons of Polish society,(middle class for US or UK in terms of living standards). I've not been impressed at all with their respective partners. That meaning,the guys weren't that much better looking than their girls. As for Polish 8's and above,I think they are very rare in general. (As Roosh has stated) . So basically the people I know ,their situation isn't better than the average Austrian or German.

(09-15-2015 06:41 PM)Nowak Wrote:  Does anyone have thoughts about how local income and status might come into play with looks match/mismatches?

I know some people in Krakow who are natives so I can give my thoughts on the matter. I think a sweet spot will be the ''stupid fun chicks'' who are a bit more working class and like the west more than the average Pole. The people I know are in the upper echelons of Polish society,(middle class for US or UK in terms of living standards). I've not been impressed at all with their respective partners. That meaning,the guys weren't that much better looking than their girls. As for Polish 8's and above,I think they are very rare in general. (As Roosh has stated) . So basically the people I know ,their situation isn't better than the average Austrian or German.

I don't think Polish 8's or above are all that rare unless you have incredibly high standards or just got unlucky with venues.

I just think 8's are rare to find at Polish nightclubs for various reasons. And this venue is the primary fishing ground unless you stick around Poland for a while and integrate with the local culture.

When I lived in Poland, I found 8's rare at nightclubs but very common in grocery stores, shopping malls and at work. There's also quite a few models hired to distribute advertising.

By far and away the biggest problem with Polish 8's and above is their general inability to speak English. There's not much reason for them to learn.

(09-15-2015 07:49 PM)Pokerbaby Wrote:  By far and away the biggest problem with Polish 8's and above is their general inability to speak English. There's not much reason for them to learn.

So called 8s are not rare at all in my opinion. The biggest problem with them is not inability to speak English cause most of them can use it. The real problem with them, from your standpoint, is that they have no need to hang out with foreigners since they have guys to date from their close social circle. And those guys are not even that cool or hot. They're just from the same social world as them and that's the criteria [aka comfort].

For real.

My cousin, 24 year old student in Warsaw, not really experienced with women, by no means a good catch, not handsome, very social and fun but not charming at all, straightforward and simpleminded type of a guy from total shithole, many times he had very cute girls throwing themselves at him at house parties and such [I've seen it]. The type of girls whose pictures you would jerk off to. Of course booze played major part in it but still, he's just a young regular dude, those girls are fine as hell and the only thing going for him is that he knows them through mutual friends. The same girls would not give him a chance if he tried to meet them on the street.

Don't complain about English language level cause that's not the real obstacle. Complain about "the dark reality of game". And that reality is that women, especially hot ones, prefer to hang out with guys they already know or have something in common with [over strangers inviting them on a first date] and that's why they get drunk and fuck at house parties with bearable/lame dudes they feel comfortable with [instead of charming/eloquent foreigners like you guys that are way better catch for them].

To piss you off a little more hehe, I just got invited to my cousin's house party where basically I can just pick one girl among at least 6 young legit hotties who are already open towards me cause he told them something good about me and one of them met me once so the rest of them know I'm his handsome cousin coming to have some fun. That's what party / dating / sex scene looks like from what I see here in PL. You're either in or out and language you speak doesn't really play that big role in it [I'm also "in" the expat crowd who speak different languages and that's how I hang out with foreign chicks and that's how I met my hot as fuck ex Russian GF some time ago].