My conclusion after going to Poland is that girls there have exactly the same mentality Western/American girls have.

They are just sweeter/softer, which makes it less obvious.

That's a shame....always had high hopes for Poland, even after so much negative comments about it. But if those statistics are true, then other Slavic countries like Russia and Ukraine should be much worse than Poland when it comes to finding non-working, family-oriented women for LTR.

(03-14-2016 06:00 PM)Stuntman Wrote:  That's a shame....always had high hopes for Poland, even after so much negative comments about it. But if those statistics are true, then other Slavic countries like Russia and Ukraine should be much worse than Poland when it comes to finding non-working, family-oriented women for LTR.

It is what you make of it, I know if I play my hand right I can sway girls to make choices in favor of what I want as a process of them submitting to me. It is up to you to mold the woman of your choosing into your ideal non-working family orientated woman.

It should be something that is discussed more on this forum all things considering, hense why I brought up getting to girls before they enter higher education as I feel that is the first step.

I've been following some Polish and Russian women on social media, most of whom are around 17 to 20 years in age. What I noticed about the poles is that most of them are already in a relationship (and a few are even married by 22)...similar to what roosh mentioned about Lithuania and Argentina. So, I've always been under the impression that Polish girls are already snatched up before they have completed lower education, which would make it even harder to find someone around that age who are "LTR-worthy". But is that really the case there? How hard is it actually to find someone between ages 17 and 20 who are still single?

As Sought said, a lot of girls have very similar mentalities to Western Women but the majority of them are still thin, pretty and kind-hearted so it's not glaringly obvious which ones to avoid. Unlike their American compatriots who get tattoos, piercings, bloat up and dye their hair because of their idea of beauty is so skewed or they're completely rebelling against the concept of natural beauty.

It's imperative to know and to pay attention to red flags. Let's use my current gf for example (to clarify, I'm moving out soon), I did not but thankfully I didn't impregnate her.

Bear in mind I had to move in with her to discover most of these red flags, so don't marry before you cohabit!

-Loved watching Sex and the City
-Cries at "makeover" programs (they make wall women look young again)
-Listens to English music almost all the time, usually pop songs
-Eats more than I do even though she's just under my weight and 5'2 (I'm 5'10)
-Drinks wine at the dinner table and has 3+ beers when she goes out with her club friends (which is on av. twice a week)
-Engages in impulsive clothing purchases even though she's unemployed or earning half as much money as she used to.
-Spent her early and mid 20's having solely ONS's and considering it fun (until I made her realise that every single one of these guys didn't care about her enough to contact her again)
-Says she wants to lose weight but never does, says she might quit Facebook but never does.

All of these tell you she admires attributes related to decadence (Designer clothing, wining and dining over health and budgeting etc) and by association Western attributes.

Going to what Stuntman said, I am all the time meeting or hearing about girls who are single or just out of a relationship. I think the guys here are taking advantage of the "Western girls", and ignoring the more conservative ones because they're not easy (who would also have less of a social media presence, and therefore be less exposed to Stuntman). Also, In his college girl demographic, I think the scene propagates relationship culture but once that attribute is out of the way the guy moves on. Unless he's Catholic and looking for a wife before he hits 25.

It can be very frustrating to move away from an Anglo country and find a girl who seems to be contrary to what you had, only to find that they're the same just in a different package. Always wrap up, or better yet don't have sex at all unless you know she's still wife material a year MINIMUM after cohabiting.

The problem with Poland is that it's a country that has had to deal with both Reich occupation and the Iron Curtain for decades, then extreme poverty and now it gets to suck on the teat of globalisation. It's no wonder England is so appealing because they get to actually have what they see on TV, and until that day the majority of them will do anything to acquire what their ancestors didn't even know the existence of - disposable income and luxury products.

Edit: I found This Roosh article on Freedom yesterday, it's the essence of the problem. It's difficult to blame them, with the above taken into account.

There are as many marriage-worthy girls in Poland as there are in the US: zero. You guys have chosen the wrong country. The reason that country was hyped up was because the girls are so easy to get into bed.

As far as marriage goes, Russian girls are certainly more conservative, but even there it's a gamble. Despite divorce rates being higher, the chances of a successful marriage with a Russian girl are far higher than with a Polish girl, you'd just need to find a very conservative one. But it really is a gamble, the only sure investment would be going to a Muslim country.

So gents I've been in Poznań 3 days and I went to Cuba libre last night. This in and of its sell not anything special, talent was good and very friendly which again was to be expected I used my I'm from California card a lot and that seemed to peek a lot of interest, but what really stuck out to me was the strippers/ hookers trying to pull guys to the strip clubs. Has anyone experienced that here in Poznań before?

To me, a woman having westernized views isn't *necessarily* a bad thing. She can have a liking for American pop culture while she's dating and still have that "family comes first" mentality. It's a nice combination of traditional and westernized. That way we'll have more common interests. As long as she chooses to settle down after marriage instead letting that sort of garbage take over her life. Not sure if the girls in Poland meet that criteria though....I'm assuming most of them do. But I could be entirely wrong.

(03-15-2016 04:46 AM)Stuntman Wrote:  To me, a woman having westernized views isn't *necessarily* a bad thing. She can have a liking for American pop culture while she's dating and still have that "family comes first" mentality. As long as she chooses to settle down after marriage instead letting that sort of garbage take over her life. Not sure if the women in Poland meet that criteria though.

It's a package. If she idolizes American media and culture, she will eventually acquire its values. I noticed this in Russia. The girls who enjoyed Western media always turned out to be the outlier sluts. The more traditional girls listened to Russian music, and generally tended to look down on the West or at most have a neutral attitude towards it.

It is a tremendous red flag if she idolizes Western culture. Sluts are great at hiding their past, but men with experience can always tell. You find out through association, things that don't necessarily have anything to do with sex, but that all sluts hold in common. This is one of those things.

I am by no means saying you should avoid sluts, but you should certainly know how to identify them, and stay the fuck away in the case of marriage.

I feel like this is one of those things that I'm gonna have to experience for myself. I'm in no position to disagree with all the negatives that people have been saying about polish girls on this forum but there's something about the positives that just kinda hits me. Also, some (not all) of the recent reports about polish girls on other forums still tend to be quite positive, so I'm in a bit of a conflict. But as I said, it's just something I'm gonna have to see for myself if I ever go there. I guess it's a matter of taste....I don't know...

And another thing I was curious about: In Poland, how do the girls between ages 17 and 19 respond to older guys? When I say older guys, I mean guys who are in their late 20s (like between 26 to 29).... From the trip reports that I've read, I'm getting way too many mixed answers. Some saying they only prefer guys who are a bit older while others saying they don't mind big age gaps...

Honestly I've only had good experiences with younger polish girls I'm 29 and from my experiences that hasn't been a factor to them i believe age and having a youthful but experienced spirt is what can set a man apart from the typical guys they are surrounded by

(03-15-2016 03:35 AM)Sought Wrote:  There are as many marriage-worthy girls in Poland as there are in the US: zero. You guys have chosen the wrong country. The reason that country was hyped up was because the girls are so easy to get into bed.

As far as marriage goes, Russian girls are certainly more conservative, but even there it's a gamble. Despite divorce rates being higher, the chances of a successful marriage with a Russian girl are far higher than with a Polish girl, you'd just need to find a very conservative one. But it really is a gamble, the only sure investment would be going to a Muslim country.

Some obvious questions, since your profile and posting history doesn't indicate:

1) How long were you in Poland? Russia?

2) What cities did you spend the majority of your time in? Did you run daygame, nightgame, social circle game, online game?

3) Have you spent time in a Muslim country? If so, where, and for how long?

4) Roughly - age, height, race, build, style? How's your Game in the US?

Edit: The reason I'm asking all these questions is that the more specific data the forum has, the better. For instance, it's fairly well-accepted that:

- Poland is more Westernized than FSU countries
- You need to be under about 35 to LTR a girl under roughly 25, unless your aesthetics and/or Game are guru-level, otherwise you need "intermediate" aesthetics
- You need at least intermediate day game or social circle game to get anywhere, especially for finding LTRs
- Online game and night game don't work well here, especially for finding LTRs
- You need at least two weeks to bang girls here, and likely more than that to find LTR girls
- Larger cities like Warsaw and Krakow are tougher and more Westernized than smaller cities like Poznan and Lublin

It doesn't matter whether you can get them or not.

Even if you can get them, they are not marriage material.

I would disagree but my experience clearly differs to yours, especially in east poland in some of the smaller places. But its a boots on the ground kinda thing, your experiences are clearly different to mine and i think we are mixing with different types of people.

I will address your issues one by one:

(03-15-2016 05:52 AM)262 Wrote:  - Poland is more Westernized than FSU countries

I wouldn't say it's "more Westernized". That doesn't make the complete situation obvious. Poland is completely Western, and largely indistinguishable from any other Western country when it comes to hookup culture. The FSU has outlier sluts, but the overall majority of girls are isolated from Western culture and follow a pattern of serial monogamy, usually marrying before reaching n=5.

(03-15-2016 05:52 AM)262 Wrote:  - You need to be under about 35 to LTR a girl under roughly 25, unless your aesthetics and/or Game are guru-level, otherwise you need "intermediate" aesthetics

Perhaps, but this says nothing of their marriage-worthiness. In fact, it is actually a Western trait. Russian girls are fine with dating men much older than themselves, and it is very common in Muslim countries aswell. Age is only a real issue in Western countries.

(03-15-2016 05:52 AM)262 Wrote:  - You need at least intermediate day game or social circle game to get anywhere, especially for finding LTRs

I firmly disagree. I have plenty of Polish daygame experience, and you get the same girls you'd get in a club. Just like daygaming in New York won't find you a traditional girl, neither will daygaming in Poland. The culture simply isn't cut out for it. Polish girls however are far more modest with their sexual histories than are the brash Americans. Any guy who tells you he found a traditional girl in Poland is, in all likelihood, a beta who fell for the lie that she "only fucked two guys".

(03-15-2016 05:52 AM)262 Wrote:  - Online game and night game don't work well here, especially for finding LTRs

You again make the mistake of thinking there are traditional girls in Poland. There aren't. Just like there aren't any in New York. Culture dictates all.

(03-15-2016 05:52 AM)262 Wrote:  - You need at least two weeks to bang girls here, and likely more than that to find LTR girls

Disagree. It's a hookup culture, and one of the easiest in Europe at that. With proper pipelining you can bang within 24 hours of arriving. On the ground, Poland can yield 2-3 girls per week at an advanced level, probably the best rates of any European country. Even at lower levels, 1 every two weeks or even 1 every week is very doable. The girls are very easy and the sex is fast, just as fast as in America. Their mentality is the complete opposite of traditional. That sweet little girl who tells you she's just fucked two guys, is the same girl who travels solo with condoms and lube in her backpack.

(03-15-2016 05:52 AM)262 Wrote:  - Larger cities like Warsaw and Krakow are tougher and more Westernized than smaller cities like Poznan and Lublin

Yes, the smaller cities are easier. But not because they are less Westernized. Poznan is actually more Westernized than Warsaw. In Poland, village girls are sluttier. Your best shot at an inexperienced girl would probably be a rich girl in the capital isolated by her family. The country is not a country for marriage.

(03-15-2016 06:27 AM)NewMeta Wrote:  I would disagree but my experience clearly differs to yours, especially in east poland in some of the smaller places. But its a boots on the ground kinda thing, your experiences are clearly different to mine and i think we are mixing with different types of people.

Any guy who goes in with a beta mentality won't see what I'm talking about. It's a secret society kind of thing. If you haven't fucked at least 30-50 girls and you go to Poland, all of what I've said will be utterly invisible. Just like the slut's beta friend who thinks she's perfect and innocent while she's out getting fucked by guys she just met.

Lol dude ok, guess ill just take your word for it. You are a member of the secret society afterall im just a lowly beta looking to marry a sweet polish girl so i can lose my virginity.

(03-15-2016 06:45 AM)NewMeta Wrote:  Lol dude ok, guess ill just take your word for it. You are a member of the secret society afterall im just a lowly beta looking to marry a sweet polish girl so i can lose my virginity.

Sorry if it came across like that. But I do stand by my comment that swallowing red pill truths is a long and arduous process that most men will never complete. Hence, most men who go to Poland will be as blind to these things as they were in their home countries.

Czech women are more westernized than Polish women right? They have a bigger ONS culture, they're more open about sex and they're most likely less traditional than Polish women since they're atheists while polish women are catholics. Not to mention, the statistics clearly show a higher female work force in CR than in Poland. So I don't understand why westernized Polish women get more hate on this forum than their Czech counterparts in terms of LTR.

EDIT: And even when Roosh wrote about their nurturing trait in http://www.rooshv.com/13-personality-tra...lish-women back in 2012, the work force for Polish women was pretty much the same as it is now. So the quantity of traditional women in poland now should be more or less equal to the quantity it was when Roosh wrote that. That's just my theory.

Sought Wrote:It's a package. If she idolizes American media and culture, she will eventually acquire its values. I noticed this in Russia. The girls who enjoyed Western media always turned out to be the outlier sluts. The more traditional girls listened to Russian music, and generally tended to look down on the West or at most have a neutral attitude towards it.

It is a tremendous red flag if she idolizes Western culture.

I couldn't agree with this more. Thanks for the rebuttal in my stead. On the other hand however, I think you're exaggerating when you say Polish culture and Polish girls by association are exactly like Britain. The volume of girls who fill all of the following criteria:

a) Single & not a divorcee
b) Not mothers
c) Sweet and feminine
d) Younger than 30
e) Not overweight, never mind obese.

Are definitely still a significant amount. In England I had to pursue a 16-20 year old to get even 3 of those characteristics, which is of course taboo and a hurdle that can only be overcome if the girl disregards her peers (Unlikely given she needs to uphold her Facebook reputation).

Somewhere else you mention the hookup culture being the same. Well, one could argue that "hookup culture" itself is Western, which makes the observation redundant. IMO there is no "polish hookup culture", just hookup culture. One that is becoming more prevalent here, unfortunately.

Edit: ^^^^^^ Regarding Czech women I've never heard people talk about them outside of a pornstar context. To me it seems Czechs are not even an option for the average expatriate, English speaking or not. Ignoring something is not the same as treating it with more respect than it's comparisons which you speak ill of.

(03-15-2016 07:11 AM)AntiMediocrity Wrote:  The volume of girls who fill all of the following criteria:

a) Single & not a divorcee
b) Not mothers
c) Sweet and feminine
d) Younger than 30

Are definitely still a significant amount.

I'm sorry but when you say "significant amount", do you mean more than 50% or some number just below that (disregarding the larger cities like Warsaw and Krakaw)?

(03-15-2016 07:16 AM)Stuntman Wrote:  I'm sorry but when you say "significant amount", do you mean more than 50% or some number just below that?

Considering I'm talking about the female population of Poland, and using these variables as filters it's impossible to consider it over 50%. You'd have to have a majority gay population combined with an extremely bottom heavy pyramid age demographic to achieve anything close to that.

When I say significant it means that there's plenty of options for guys who have a high SMV. In England the only single girls were damaged goods (Old, had children, were divorced, obese list goes on), or just really young and hadn't been indoctrinated...yet.

Here I'm hearing about single women with no male admirers all the time. Which is frankly upsetting, considering all the guys who are settling for landwhales in England. Me and my mate joke all the time that if men knew about all the single girls in Poland, Ukraine, Moldova etc, guys would leave their English hunnies in droves.

That reminds me, I should add weight to that list.

(03-15-2016 07:11 AM)AntiMediocrity Wrote:  a) Single & not a divorcee
b) Not mothers
c) Sweet and feminine
d) Younger than 30
e) Not overweight, never mind obese.

No doubt that Polish women are indeed sweeter and hotter. What I said is that their mentality towards sex and male-female relationships is exactly the same as it would be in any other Western country. The hookup culture isn't "in ascendance" as some people here suggest, it is full-blown and as strong as anywhere in the Western world. I'd go as far as saying that your average Polish college student has fucked as many guys and been in as many revolting sexual situations as any slut from New York or Scandinavia. That is despite being sweeter and hotter. Many Western guys think that sweetness and promiscuity are incompatible: they aren't.

(03-15-2016 07:04 AM)Stuntman Wrote:  Czech women are more westernized than Polish women right? They have a bigger ONS culture, they're more open about sex and they're most likely less traditional than Polish women since they're atheists while polish women are catholics. Not to mention, the statistics clearly show a higher female work force in CR than in Poland. So I don't understand why westernized Polish women get more hate on this forum than their Czech counterparts in terms of LTR.

EDIT: And even when Roosh wrote about their nurturing trait in http://www.rooshv.com/13-personality-tra...lish-women back in 2012, the work force for Polish women was pretty much the same as it is now. So the quantity of traditional women in poland now should be more or less equal to the quantity it was when Roosh wrote that. That's just my theory.

Czech girls and Polish girls are about the same in terms of mentality. Don't be fooled by the religion in Poland, they don't take it seriously and it means nothing. They pray to God one night, then go out the next and fuck a total stranger in a toilet. Literally, that's not even an exaggeration. The only major difference would be that towards age 30 Polish girls have a stronger pressure to marry, usually from the older generations, and end up with some beta they regularly cheat on. In Czech you have more spinsters and MILFs that refuse to get married, whereas most Polish sluts tend to go down the reformed-whore lane in their late 20s. Many forum-members can attest to how nasty these late 20s "reformed" spinsters are, they have to be some of the most vile women in the whole of Europe. This shows the effects that promiscuity and constant romantic disappointment have on soft-natured girls.

Roosh himself has disavowed that article and now openly admits he was wrong. You can find this in the comment sections of later articles he wrote about Poland. He himself was duped by the sweetness, which reinforces my earlier point that most men will be blind to these things when they first step foot in the country.

Polish girls in general adore nice guys, but by nice guys it's literal. You still need to have a backbone, be decisive, be moderately emotive and most importantly be able to keep your girlfriend in line should she start going down any dark path.

Polish culture is 100% about men protecting their women. And not because the women are weak and need protecting, I mean you will find old war pictures of women with weapons because unlike English and American women who worked in the factories they actually had to proactively protect the land. Polish women can be tough as nails, but it's understood that men are tougher still and are supposed to be guardians.

Not this beta hipster twink shit. You'll only find students with that type because they worship fashion trends (taken from the west of course, champions of emasculation).

To add, quite often you will see guys running around with flowers or a single rose. And they're not betas trying to get a pity blowjob, because if you happen to spot such a guy after he's met his girl, she's looking at him with complete doe eyes. Girls go nuts for flowers here and there are Kwiaty (flower shops) everywhere.

I'm still tindering here and I'm genuinely concerned that girls will start developing feelings for me as I continue having a platonic and non aggressive approach.

I've told non Tinder girls that I'm being fully platonic in the hopes that I won't lead them [the Tinder girls] on, and they insisted that as long as I'm a decent guy they will not see me in a platonic light. I look and act like "boyfriend material" AFATC, and when I tell them that in England if you're pleasant you are immediately pigeonholed into friend material they're in complete disbelief.

re nice guys just from my own experience ive never had to be a complete snark like i did with girls from the UK. You can be pleasent but stern, so i agree with AM above, just make sure to put your foot down if they make a bad choice or do something you dont agree with and hold frame. I havent seen asshole game be that effective here, only on huge trashy sluts, you can get away with just being a nice but strong masculine dude here just fine.

Agree with the tricity being tough but also the quality up there is undoubtedly better. Even my local boys here think girls up there are the hottest and hardest to pull.