End of summit with Kim and wife watching light show and then saying goodbye and driving back north
Full video without commentary from russian channel RT
28 minutes long

(04-28-2018 02:17 PM)Fisto Wrote:  Nothing is going to change security wise. Our troops are positioned in strategic locations all over the world for a reason.

No one is so short sighted as to leave China to it’s own devices.

I think the trade war is about to ramp up big time.

This was all about money fellas.

China would love to have it's manufacturing proxy base back, making things it's own growing middle class is too rich to make in a nasty factory.

South Korea could use North Korean manufacturing and strategic minerals too.

Oh yeah, what's that? Japan has a massive Rare Earth minerals cache on an island now? You think Japan would give Samsung a good deal on some? LOOOL! Sure, so the South Koreans and Taiwanese can destroy whatever is left of their fledgling TV industry? Well Japan is the US ally, so likely we could get a decent deal for some right? Heh, Japanese are stingy as fuck, we shall see.

Either way, North Koreans were feeling the pinch of those sanctions. Fucking with the West was cute until even the rich NK citizens were becoming poor overnight. Obama and others never called that bluff properly. He knew he could not keep control of that country with no paper. He turned into a bitch really quick.

No place on Earth differs from another. You can fuck with whoever you want, just don't fuck with the money.

(04-30-2018 01:25 AM)TravelerKai Wrote:  

(04-28-2018 02:17 PM)Fisto Wrote:  Nothing is going to change security wise. Our troops are positioned in strategic locations all over the world for a reason.

No one is so short sighted as to leave China to it’s own devices.

I think the trade war is about to ramp up big time.

This was all about money fellas.

China would love to have it's manufacturing proxy base back, making things it's own growing middle class is too rich to make in a nasty factory.

South Korea could use North Korean manufacturing and strategic minerals too.

Oh yeah, what's that? Japan has a massive Rare Earth minerals cache on an island now? You think Japan would give Samsung a good deal on some? LOOOL! Sure, so the South Koreans and Taiwanese can destroy whatever is left of their fledgling TV industry? Well Japan is the US ally, so likely we could get a decent deal for some right? Heh, Japanese are stingy as fuck, we shall see.

Either way, North Koreans were feeling the pinch of those sanctions. Fucking with the West was cute until even the rich NK citizens were becoming poor overnight. Obama and others never called that bluff properly. He knew he could not keep control of that country with no paper. He turned into a bitch really quick.

No place on Earth differs from another. You can fuck with whoever you want, just don't fuck with the money.

Good post and I agree. But isn't all of that a good thing?

(04-30-2018 01:58 AM)RIslander Wrote:  

(04-30-2018 01:25 AM)TravelerKai Wrote:  

(04-28-2018 02:17 PM)Fisto Wrote:  Nothing is going to change security wise. Our troops are positioned in strategic locations all over the world for a reason.

No one is so short sighted as to leave China to it’s own devices.

I think the trade war is about to ramp up big time.

This was all about money fellas.

China would love to have it's manufacturing proxy base back, making things it's own growing middle class is too rich to make in a nasty factory.

South Korea could use North Korean manufacturing and strategic minerals too.

Oh yeah, what's that? Japan has a massive Rare Earth minerals cache on an island now? You think Japan would give Samsung a good deal on some? LOOOL! Sure, so the South Koreans and Taiwanese can destroy whatever is left of their fledgling TV industry? Well Japan is the US ally, so likely we could get a decent deal for some right? Heh, Japanese are stingy as fuck, we shall see.

Either way, North Koreans were feeling the pinch of those sanctions. Fucking with the West was cute until even the rich NK citizens were becoming poor overnight. Obama and others never called that bluff properly. He knew he could not keep control of that country with no paper. He turned into a bitch really quick.

No place on Earth differs from another. You can fuck with whoever you want, just don't fuck with the money.

Good post and I agree. But isn't all of that a good thing?

Well, yes and no.

No more standoff and warmongering is a very good thing. It's bad for the Earth, bad for politics, bad for business (everyone's except the USA military industrial complex), and bad for North Korean people.

It's a little bit bad because it can help China, which is growing super strong financially, get even stronger. It could have the unintended consequence of the USA in the long term have to draw down or dismantle the base there. (good and bad there as well). You could make sound arguments in favor or against the need to contain China or Russia with a base there.

Some might not think this way, but a unified East Asia (maybe minus Japan) may have unintended consequences that do not fall in favor of the West.

I don't really care either way. Small govt. types have good sound reasoning for this, I personally do not like the MIC (Military Industrial Complex) either, but statecraft is never really about the ideology of home in a sense. Platitudes do not keep cars running and energy flowing. Political Realism and Realpolitik matters a lot more.

Would you like to see the rise of a new OPEC, but East Asia style? Might not be oil, but could be rare earth materials, uranium, etc. etc. The South Koreans, vote the American base off their soil after they unify? If we say no, who looks awful there? We are supposed to be paragons of Democracy. I can even see a scenario where the UN is about to get even weaker than it ever has been in history.

Deep State and globalist banker sycophants, likely will be looking for payback on this. Trump is the biggest throat to choke here. That's the only real concern I have here. Other than that, it's all positive to me. Anything else can likely be worked out somehow.

The vast majority of wars are over resources and money. Even religious ones. Always have, always will be. These days it's packaged in a nicer box with lots of pretty white papers to sign. The sausage is in the back, still bloody as ever.

Even though the Soviet Union dissolved, the US still has a number of huge bases in Germany. So, even if the Koreas unify, the US will likely keep many of the bases on the peninsula and in Japan, because those two countries will want us there to help keep China in check.

The US is almost finished constructing a huge mega-base in S. Korea at Camp Humphreys, about 40 miles south of Seoul. There was already a plan in place to pull back US forces from the border and from the garrison in Seoul to Humphreys.

(04-30-2018 08:11 AM)C-Note Wrote:  Even though the Soviet Union dissolved, the US still has a number of huge bases in Germany. So, even if the Koreas unify, the US will likely keep many of the bases on the peninsula and in Japan, because those two countries will want us there to help keep China in check.

The US is almost finished constructing a huge mega-base in S. Korea at Camp Humphreys, about 40 miles south of Seoul. There was already a plan in place to pull back US forces from the border and from the garrison in Seoul to Humphreys.

I remember foreign policy experts back when I was in college talking about how young S Koreans did not fear the North at all and did not think US bases were necessary.

Now that a peace deal is on the brink? That mega base could be wasted money.

You are right about Japan. That base there isnt going anywhere, anytime soon at least. We are there because they surrendered from a war. Different from the Korea situation. I cannot see a reason (politically) why that base would exist in a unification scenario. China is not that much of a threat to them physically. It's not like they are some poor little couple of countries that do not have the technology to defend themselves with nukes, etc.

Nuke armed countries do not invade other nuke armed countries. China also isn't anywhere near as aggressive militarily as other countries like America for example. They have never invaded another country and the one time they tried to invade Vietnam, they got their asses kicked at the border. The Chinese just want everyone's money in some form or fashion. Any aggression they show to anyone, anytime soon will be Hong Kong or Taiwan first, but likely they will play a long game of soft power takeovers and be patient.

With the technology we have now, a giant floating naval base in the pacific is not outside the realm of possibility either. Some countries might howl about it, international waters blah blah, but meh.

Everyone talking about Chinese aggression and yet there are really only two major powers in the world invading, killing, and maiming people in clear violation of international law: US and Israel

^ People are rightfully concerned that China might be lying about a "peaceful" rise just like they lie about a lot of things. I know, I know, you're going to trot out "the West does all these things too!" but does the world need another super power repeating the cycle? If the answer to that is "no," do you expect China to be different in anyway if the other nations don't put pressure on China to keep a lid on their encroachment?

(04-30-2018 10:35 AM)Fortis Wrote:  ^ People are rightfully concerned that China might be lying about a "peaceful" rise just like they lie about a lot of things. I know, I know, you're going to trot out "the West does all these things too!" but does the world need another super power repeating the cycle? If the answer to that is "no," do you expect China to be different in anyway if the other nations don't put pressure on China to keep a lid on their encroachment?

Ditto. ALL countries take advantage of their weaker neighbors and seek to gain resources when they have a domestic shortage. This is human nature and has been going on since the first Homo Erectus tribes quarreled over land hundreds of thousands of years ago. The idea that a strong China won't bully its neighbors is laughable, especially given their water and energy shortages, sense of historical grievance, and the BS they are pulling now in the South China sea.

Unification will make it infinitely harder for the US to justify its new base, and it's an open question whether a unified Korea would take the US's side in an effort to contain China. Culturally, they have far more in common with China, with ties going back over a thousand years, and China has never abused them the way Japan did during WW2.

Anyway, I don't understand Kim's game. Once his country opens up to the outside world with a free flow of investment and travel, then the clock starts ticking on unification since it will be harder for him to convince the North Korean people that the status quo is better than them having access to the same life that South Koreans have.

I can't imagine what role he would play in a unified Korea - best case scenario is he takes his billions and retires.

Maybe with the sanctions and threat of war, Kim realizes that staying in power is going to be a nonstop headache, and if China isn't going to back him unconditionally, he could end up like Saddam Hussein. Better to leave a positive legacy than be executed and humiliated.

If Trump's strategy was able to change Kim's calculus, then the President deserves credit for this turnaround. But for now, I'm skeptical until it's clear what Kim's endgame is.

EDIT: Just saw this article and it gives an interesting perspective on how Korean unification will allow the US to devote more bandwidth to containing China

Quote:If America and its allies can ink an agreement that sees North Korea give up its nuclear arsenal in a fully verifiable manner, the balance of power in Asia would be completely transformed. Pyongyang would become a much more manageable threat, and Team Trump would finally be able to combat the biggest problem Washington faces on the world stage today: a rising China that wants to completely overturn the international system in its favor.

In many respects, nothing should scare China more, as America, and specifically the Trump administration, has never been fully capable of taking on the challenges presented by Beijing thanks to Pyongyang and its growing nuclear arsenal. China has taken full advantage of Washington’s wandering eye, putting itself in position to dominate the South China Sea, further subjugate Taiwan, and try to develop a stronger position in the East China Sea. Remove the North Korea crisis from Asia and the Trump administration has the needed bandwidth to contain Beijing’s aspirations.
...
He continued: “We get benefits from this that I think a lot of people in Washington forget about. If you are worried about North Korea’s military, or how Beijing can help Pyongyang, you don’t care as much about our larger goals in Asia. We lose that if Pyongyang was to come out of the cold and give up its nukes. I am sure this has to keep the [Chinese] leadership up at night.”

(04-30-2018 10:35 AM)Fortis Wrote:  ^ People are rightfully concerned that China might be lying about a "peaceful" rise just like they lie about a lot of things. I know, I know, you're going to trot out "the West does all these things too!" but does the world need another super power repeating the cycle? If the answer to that is "no," do you expect China to be different in anyway if the other nations don't put pressure on China to keep a lid on their encroachment?

The Chinese are encroaching on things they once owned in past history. The South China Sea for example. They never once owned the Koreas as a territory (tribute demands isn't the same thing). They had a handful of wars from 100 something BC and Tang Dynasty wars in the 600's AD. They have not fought each other for well over 1000 years. There is huff over whether Guan Yu was actually Korean or Chinese, but that is the extent of their beefs these days.

When the Chinese controlled the South China Sea, they held it for a very long time until the pesky British more or less weakened their power over it.

An understanding of Chinese culture means if you study their history, China is so fucking huge in terms of landmass and surrounding water, it fueled their ethnocentrism views. They think the land itself is the center of the universe. Zhong Guo, means "Central Country" in English. In a Chinese mindset, no other lands really matter to them. They consider the South Sea to be part of this and has so for thousands of years. To them it's just another toll booth near their land. In certain dynasties, Chinese pirates controlled by the emperor (on the payroll) used to control the waters per se.

I doubt anyone is going to get them to back down off the waters near them. If anyone thinks America is going to check them on that, good luck with that shit. If push came to shove, you think America would let Mexico expand their territory claims in the Gulf of Mexico? Even if Mexico grew into a more powerful country? Yeah right. America has controlled most of that gulf for too long to give that up without a fight, even if it gets weaker in 50 years.

There are two big issues with the SCS:

1. The fishing rights (food sources)

2. Oil potentially underneath as well as other minerals of value.

China letting the dogs loose on baby making knows that food sourcing is key to stability. Control of the large area has price at the market implications. They certainly do not want Thailand or the Philippines pulling up more seafood from a competition standpoint and from a standpoint of having enough seafood to meet demand and control costs.

The oil is major because while China's oil exploration and production in terms of upstream goes, is still but a baby, having control for the future means alot to them. They don't even know just how much they have on land, but better safe than sorry just incase it is not much. Cars are clogging up the roads, towns, and everywhere in China. They are car crazy and that trend isn't going down. Like America they will get aggressive for supplies, but they know there is plenty within the traditional territory they can tap when they close that knowledge gap and technology gap. Eventually they would like to buy less oil abroad by some date I am sure they discuss in Beijing.

Other things is that it is a bigger security buffer and control of the seas means it is easier to catch modern pirates, crimes, other riff raff.

Chinese mindset is to be obsessed with orderly control and stability for China. No way they repeat history and get into fights with Vietnam and Korea again. Lots of those super old wars they took heavy losses or got nothing out of it. They suck when it comes to invasions, because no emperor thought other lands were more important than China. Also when you have to worry about warlords in every quadrant of this massive country with no telegram or internet, it took a shit load of work to maintain order.

I personally think if Chinese ever start acting like Americans, the following has happened after at least a few generations of younger Chinese:

1. Became a type of democracy.
2. Feminism is rampant. Culture all but forgotten.
3. They are number 1 most powerful country and the neighbors turned to shit around them.

Could be all 3 for that to happen, but I laugh at anyone claiming the Chinese will invade people as their power grows. That's like getting pussy in a vacuum. Shit just does not happen like that. Wars are not cold heartless decisions like a computer science workflow. They have heavy social underlying factors underneath the surface usually involving the corruption of money and wealth.

My point is that I don't buy "we're just gonna rise peacefully" story. They'll rise peacefully as long as everyone around them makes unreasonable concessions in their favor, but Chinese have never been against cracking some skulls to take what they want. That leads me to linger firmly in the "don't trust 'em" camp. I don't expect USA to do much of anything, but I don't blame the other countries in that region for being suspicious of China. Nor do I blame men in this thread for maintaining a healthy skepticism when it comes to Chinese intentions. It's never philanthropic. Do they even have a word for that in Chinese?

(04-30-2018 11:30 AM)Fortis Wrote:  My point is that I don't buy "we're just gonna rise peacefully" story. They'll rise peacefully as long as everyone around them makes unreasonable concessions in their favor, but Chinese have never been against cracking some skulls to take what they want. That leads me to linger firmly in the "don't trust 'em" camp. I don't expect USA to do much of anything, but I don't blame the other countries in that region for being suspicious of China. Nor do I blame men in this thread for maintaining a healthy skepticism when it comes to Chinese intentions. It's never philanthropic. Do they even have a word for that in Chinese?

Inside China yes. They have treated their own people like shit for centuries like a generational curse. Show me an example of cracking skulls outside China. They could very well box someone out financially somehow.

Until someone can show me real proof of physical aggression of the modern Chinese state against non-Chinese. I refuse to buy notions of foreign conquesting on any level without some semblance of proof and notions based on what other cultures and peoples like to do. It's almost as if culture and history does not exist nor does it influence foreign policy.

Soft power is still power. Locking out markets and dominating assets is completely different from physical escalations in terms of foreign policy. By now it is 2018. The amount of past empires failed over standard "overreach" are too many to count if you got back to even ancient times. What empires are foolish enough to do such a thing now, that has no real incentive to do so? What about state actors that do not use the empire model of any variant? Samseau himself admitted that we Americans still have an empire, we just puppet our territories, which is true. Does China even have those? If not, where would they start? Would they ever go outside their own historical territories? For a land with nearly 5000 years worth of history, you cannot even find examples within the last 2000 years of such behavior. The country is 9.6 sq km large. the 4th largest on Earth. Some of the reason Russia has alot of the historical borders it had, has a lot to do with the land mass itself. China has already gone through the communist phase, still wasn't enough to expand out. Russia looked down on China for bastardizing their brand of Communism, Mao laughed and didn't give a shit. Japan became imperialist because they did not have much room to grow in. Still don't.

I think people make a flaw in reasoning and a logic error in assuming all state actors spill out past their borders knocking heads as if it is a given. You can find examples in history of states flowing with wealth and power, but never expand much, if at all out until they collapse. I think alot of the reason why few can even write decent analysis about China is because China is just as much of a concept as it is a country, an ethnicity, and a culture. If you think China is so bad, you haven't seen shit. When they ever get around to doing bank loans at .05% interest, watch how fast the Globalists surround them with the millitaries of other countries. The concept of usury is disgusting to the Chinese. Should they choose to share their style, they will get dealt with. You can count on that. If they acquire enough foreign currency holdings, they could collapse the global banking markets overnight if they wanted to.

I suspect the Chinese will support de-nuclearizing N. Korea, but not unifying the peninsula, because they use N. Korea as a buffer to put some distance between their mainland and Western forces.

All we can do is speculate at this point. No idea how the two Korea's will unify at this point, but the end to constant war there will be a great thing. Kind of crazy that this war is what created half my bloodline, and finally it comes to a close. Almost took 3 generations, now that my friends is a war.

After 6 decades of war, I know the Koreans won't be looking for a fight anytime soon. If I made any guess, both America and China will scale back their military operations there as the Koreans enjoy their peacetime. It is historically improbable for wars to occur again after 60 years of war.

People will chillax as the details of Korea's integration is worked on, and foreign policy will return to the Middle East, which continues to be a shit show.

China won't bother with military force on it's immediate borders, they will instead focus on colonizing Africa. Since the US will indeed ramp up a trade war as the battle for money grows. China isn't suicidal enough to start a war with the USA, however, and as they cannot count on having the USA as a place to sell cheap shit, I think China will turn to exploiting Africa to keep GDP up. They will be able to do the same things the USA once did to China: exploit cheap labor in Africa to resell back to middle class Chinese.

(05-02-2018 04:47 PM)Samseau Wrote:  All we can do is speculate at this point. No idea how the two Korea's will unify at this point, but the end to constant war there will be a great thing. Kind of crazy that this war is what created half my bloodline, and finally it comes to a close. Almost took 3 generations, now that my friends is a war.

After 6 decades of war, I know the Koreans won't be looking for a fight anytime soon. If I made any guess, both America and China will scale back their military operations there as the Koreans enjoy their peacetime. It is historically improbable for wars to occur again after 60 years of war.

People will chillax as the details of Korea's integration is worked on, and foreign policy will return to the Middle East, which continues to be a shit show.

China won't bother with military force on it's immediate borders, they will instead focus on colonizing Africa. Since the US will indeed ramp up a trade war as the battle for money grows. China isn't suicidal enough to start a war with the USA, however, and as they cannot count on having the USA as a place to sell cheap shit, I think China will turn to exploiting Africa to keep GDP up. They will be able to do the same things the USA once did to China: exploit cheap labor in Africa to resell back to middle class Chinese.

Money battles. I like that. That is perfect and encapsulates the trend correctly.

Money wars are the future. Getting physical is like fighting at a party. You loose points with the females (lesser states). Real alphas demonstrate value without getting violent. That is the future indeed.

Russia better watch out. The US and China getting competitive will have consequences directly and indirectly with Russia. If China and the US cooperate more, Russia will be in serious trouble and risk getting contained hardcore. If I were Putin, I would dump money into things that are not weapons systems now so that later they will have things of value to export for good money.

The Big Meeting is taking place June 12 in Singapore

(04-30-2018 03:11 PM)C-Note Wrote:  I suspect the Chinese will support de-nuclearizing N. Korea, but not unifying the peninsula, because they use N. Korea as a buffer to put some distance between their mainland and Western forces.

My understanding is that the whole appeal of this approach for KJU is to stay in power as NK opens up. He can spin the transition as the natural thing that his Father and Grandfather would have done, now that the policy of Juche has made NK strong and independent enough to stand alone against the greatest powers on Earth

To a considerable extent, he's right. As the young ruler who inherited his family dynasty, if he manages a gradual opening of NK, and protects the NK citizens from the worst excesses of a sudden upending of their economy, he really will have done well for his people.

I don't think SK wants to fund an expensive effort to feed and support everybody in NK while they rebuild the whole economy to modern standards. SK will be happy to let NK remain as a separate country, with significant restrictions to control and manage their opening to the rest of the world.

We'll see how it plays out, but I expect NK to stay separate for a very long time.

Bang North Korea?

Come on guys, somebody has to be planning a trip.

^ I'm not into Asian girls, but I do plan on going to NK once it opens up. It will probably be similar to the situation in the now-FSU and East Germany c. 1990-1994.

The BBC is reporting that North Korea has 'abruptly' cancelled talks with the South and warned the USA about the future of the Trump-Kim summit. This is apparently due to the usual US-South Korean joint military exercises taking place.

I'm not one to worry about upsetting belligerent regimes, but Christ, with this much progress on the table, couldn't they have given the war games a rest for once?

That’s just it, they didn’t seem to do anything out if the ordinary. But nk can just say at any point”you keep threatening us!” And bail

The exotic-factor in North Korea is gonna be sky high when the airport opens up. Get ready to experience South Korean 30 years ago when the world is not inter-connected bros

(05-15-2018 04:23 PM)Praetor Lupus Wrote:  The BBC is reporting that North Korea has 'abruptly' cancelled talks with the South and warned the USA about the future of the Trump-Kim summit. This is apparently due to the usual US-South Korean joint military exercises taking place.

I'm not one to worry about upsetting belligerent regimes, but Christ, with this much progress on the table, couldn't they have given the war games a rest for once?

Kim wants some more attention. He feels slighted by the big smoke over in the Levant. Let him do some posturing, it will help both him and Trump. I am 100% certain that there are already some back channel talks happening with Kim and that he is taking this all quite well.

It feels like a kid who is just a little too excited for Christmas that he starts trying to sabotage the whole thing. A little bit of Hennessy might go a long way here.

(05-15-2018 04:23 PM)Praetor Lupus Wrote:  I'm not one to worry about upsetting belligerent regimes, but Christ, with this much progress on the table, couldn't they have given the war games a rest for once?

Yup. Kim's not dumb. He saw what happened to Saddam and Gaddafi. You can't trust the US government. One day they sign an agreement with you, and the next day your country is being bombed.