(04-14-2017 09:07 PM)Beirut Wrote:  Btw i was gonna start a topic couple of weeks ago how most of these twitter personalities are wagon riders with no principles out for fame but I'm very happy that i was proven wrong. Eapecially about mike cernovich and pjw. I suspect i still might disagree with them about a lot of things but respect for standing up to their words. In comparison a giy like bill mitchell comes on like a bush era buffoon.

That + this forum and pol's opinions are a breath of fresh air and hope for those of us whose communities' future lies in the balance

Mitchell is unbelievable. He's reaching "Dear Leader" levels, maybe we can send him to Pyongyang ? Gotta give him credit though, he has been providing consistent Lulz lately.

(04-14-2017 10:20 PM)AManLikePutin Wrote:  

(04-14-2017 09:07 PM)Beirut Wrote:  Btw i was gonna start a topic couple of weeks ago how most of these twitter personalities are wagon riders with no principles out for fame but I'm very happy that i was proven wrong. Eapecially about mike cernovich and pjw. I suspect i still might disagree with them about a lot of things but respect for standing up to their words. In comparison a giy like bill mitchell comes on like a bush era buffoon.

That + this forum and pol's opinions are a breath of fresh air and hope for those of us whose communities' future lies in the balance

Mitchell is unbelievable. He's reaching "Dear Leader" levels, maybe we can send him to Pyongyang ? Gotta give him credit though, he has been providing consistent Lulz lately.

Fuck me. MMX, can you please enlighten us whether Bill Mitchell is gamma, sigma, or deltoid epsilon? WE NEED TO KNOW GODDAM IT

(04-14-2017 10:33 PM)Fast Eddie Wrote:  Fuck me. MMX, can you please enlighten us whether Bill Mitchell is gamma, sigma, or deltoid epsilon? WE NEED TO KNOW GODDAM IT

I'm more interested in a response from you regarding my post here.

(04-14-2017 10:42 PM)MMX2010 Wrote:  

(04-14-2017 10:33 PM)Fast Eddie Wrote:  Fuck me. MMX, can you please enlighten us whether Bill Mitchell is gamma, sigma, or deltoid epsilon? WE NEED TO KNOW GODDAM IT

I'm more interested in a response from you regarding my post here.

That's a fair question. I have no strong opinions on the NATO issue. I couldn't care less if Trump dissolves NATO or if on the contrary, he does absolutely nothing to change the NATO status quo.

My objection to your post a couple days ago was with the idea that Trump's election promises should be seen in light of his negotiating tactics as described in the Art of the Deal. To me, that is an unacceptable interpretation of the situation, at least when it comes to the issues I actually care about, which are primarily trade and immigration. My support of Trump had nothing to do with Trump the man and everything to do with the policies Trump promised to implement during the election.

As such, I am not assuaged by justifications for Trump's about face or softening on these issues by references to Trump's stated modus operendi in the business world. For all intents and purposes, we interviewed Trump for a job, and then hired him, just as we would do if we were the Board of Directors of a corporation interviewing for the CEO position.

During our interview of Trump for the CEO job, he told us he likes to stake out extreme initial positions in order to help achieve pre-determined goals. So we said sure, that's a reasonable way for him to carry out his duties as CEO to implement the long term strategic goals of the company. Now this is the key point here: Trump also said he shares our strategic goals, which is why we hired him.

If he now turns around on us and tells us "sorry brahs, but you should have known I was never going to do what I promised, didn't you read the Art of the Deal?" then he has basically renegaded on his fiduciary duties as CEO and should be fired. He is to implement "The Art of the Deal" to deliver on his promises, but "The Art of the Deal" is not relevant to getting him off the hook for lying during the interview process. Staking out extreme positions to accomplish reasonable objectives is what the CEO does to achieve agreed upon strategic goals, not what he does to mislead the shareholders of the company as to what those goals are to actually be.

(04-14-2017 12:26 PM)Beirut Wrote:  Fisto becoming president of the US is not a sacrifice. Its pretty much the ultimate ambition any human being on the planet can have. Some peoole spend all their fortunes trying to become deputies in a parliament in a 3rd world country.

And Trump is a career business and TV man. He never held office and never was an activist. I dont think he has been tested. Thats why people wont just sit bacj and trust anything he does.

A good leader should value honest advice more than blind loyalty.

You cant expect him to do something 180 degrees opposed to what he said and not have people call him out or be perplexed by it, especially when his team is half full of those who are completely against what most of the personalities stand for.

Get real, this kind of hate, vitriol, subversion, and flat out aggression is unprecedented (from his own party even).

He hasn't been "tested"?

What a ridiculous statement. He's been tested over and over and over.

I don't want to sound condescending but every time there's an apparent "180" a little more time shows in fact there was no "180" at all.

A classic example is the "China isn't a currency manipulator" controversy.

Just happened. I was actually ok with the reversal since China is now putting pressure on NK and I just assumed that was part of the deal.

Then Samseau points out that they cut that shit out and all our President had to do was call them out on the campaign trail.

Show me a president that's been that effective before.

But what do we have, guys all over the internet acting like know it alls saying "Trump is doing 180, guess he's sucking the deep state d now".

Why? CNN, known liars and information manipulators told them so.

I'm glad we have guys like Fast Eddie pointing out things like DACA still being around etc.

But it is irksome and tiring to constantly hear about how Trump is doing "U turns" when he isn't.

Really, I suspect this is a more a form of virtue signaling than honest critique.

(04-14-2017 09:02 PM)BrewDog Wrote:  

(04-14-2017 01:41 PM)MMX2010 Wrote:  

Beirut Wrote:A good leader should value honest advice more than blind loyalty.

Valuing honest advice is fucking stupid. "Honest" is determined by the advice-giver, not the advice-recipient, and the death cry of every vanquished, traitorous, Gamma loser is always, "But I'm just trying to be honest!"

So what you wish is that all of the president's advisers are liars? You want your president to get fake advice?

That's really odd.

God what a stupid comment.

(04-14-2017 11:08 PM)Fisto Wrote:  But it is irksome and tiring to constantly hear about how Trump is doing "U turns" when he isn't.

It's equally irksome to point out that Trump's supposed "changes in stance" or "softening" on promises involving multiple government officials from multiple countries (such as the repeal of DACA, the Wall, and the Syrian missile strike) aren't necessarily lies.

They're much more likely to be part of the negotiation process because they involve so many government officials.

(04-14-2017 09:02 PM)BrewDog Wrote:  

(04-14-2017 01:41 PM)MMX2010 Wrote:  

Beirut Wrote:A good leader should value honest advice more than blind loyalty.

Valuing honest advice is fucking stupid. "Honest" is determined by the advice-giver, not the advice-recipient, and the death cry of every vanquished, traitorous, Gamma loser is always, "But I'm just trying to be honest!"

So what you wish is that all of the president's advisers are liars? You want your president to get fake advice?

That's really odd.

You may have mis-gauged what MMX2010 meant.

As Robin Hanson might say, advising ("advising") is often not about providing accurate advice.

(04-14-2017 11:17 PM)Fisto Wrote:  

(04-14-2017 09:02 PM)BrewDog Wrote:  

(04-14-2017 01:41 PM)MMX2010 Wrote:  

Beirut Wrote:A good leader should value honest advice more than blind loyalty.

Valuing honest advice is fucking stupid. "Honest" is determined by the advice-giver, not the advice-recipient, and the death cry of every vanquished, traitorous, Gamma loser is always, "But I'm just trying to be honest!"

So what you wish is that all of the president's advisers are liars? You want your president to get fake advice?

That's really odd.

God what a stupid comment.

Yet your undying support for Trump without allowing any dissension over his flip-flopping is somehow prudent and wise?

Anyone that asks any questions about Trump's true intent is immediately shouted down in here. We're called turncoats and idiots and low-post trolls. Did it ever occur to you that perhaps the most hardcore patriots are the ones that actually question their leaders instead of blindly marching along behind them no matter what they do? It doesn't make any of us Anti-American or anti-Trump to ask questions about WTF he's up to. He promised us America First and now we're on the brink of war with Syria, North Korea, and Russia.

How dare I ask what my president is up to? Maybe you should stop challenging our patriotism.

(04-14-2017 11:48 PM)BrewDog Wrote:  

(04-14-2017 11:17 PM)Fisto Wrote:  

(04-14-2017 09:02 PM)BrewDog Wrote:  

(04-14-2017 01:41 PM)MMX2010 Wrote:  

Beirut Wrote:A good leader should value honest advice more than blind loyalty.

Valuing honest advice is fucking stupid. "Honest" is determined by the advice-giver, not the advice-recipient, and the death cry of every vanquished, traitorous, Gamma loser is always, "But I'm just trying to be honest!"

So what you wish is that all of the president's advisers are liars? You want your president to get fake advice?

That's really odd.

God what a stupid comment.

Yet your undying support for Trump without allowing any dissension over his flip-flopping is somehow prudent and wise?

Anyone that asks any questions about Trump's true intent is immediately shouted down in here. We're called turncoats and idiots and low-post trolls. Did it ever occur to you that perhaps the most hardcore patriots are the ones that actually question their leaders instead of blindly marching along behind them no matter what they do? It doesn't make any of us Anti-American or anti-Trump to ask questions about WTF he's up to. He promised us America First and now we're on the brink of war with Syria, North Korea, and Russia.

How dare I ask what my president is up to? Maybe you should stop challenging our patriotism.

You've spewed basic bitch anti-Trump lines even before the election. From September:

(09-18-2016 11:59 PM)BrewDog Wrote:  I guess if I liked fascist liars, I'd want Donald Trump to be president.

(04-15-2017 12:04 AM)Dusty Wrote:  You've spewed basic bitch anti-Trump lines even before the election. From September:

You searched through months of my postings to find that? That's impressive. I don't remember even saying that, but I'm not going to search through months of posts to find it, so I'll take your word for it.

(04-14-2017 11:48 PM)BrewDog Wrote:  

(04-14-2017 11:17 PM)Fisto Wrote:  

(04-14-2017 09:02 PM)BrewDog Wrote:  

(04-14-2017 01:41 PM)MMX2010 Wrote:  

Beirut Wrote:A good leader should value honest advice more than blind loyalty.

Valuing honest advice is fucking stupid. "Honest" is determined by the advice-giver, not the advice-recipient, and the death cry of every vanquished, traitorous, Gamma loser is always, "But I'm just trying to be honest!"

So what you wish is that all of the president's advisers are liars? You want your president to get fake advice?

That's really odd.

God what a stupid comment.

Yet your undying support for Trump without allowing any dissension over his flip-flopping is somehow prudent and wise?

Anyone that asks any questions about Trump's true intent is immediately shouted down in here. We're called turncoats and idiots and low-post trolls. Did it ever occur to you that perhaps the most hardcore patriots are the ones that actually question their leaders instead of blindly marching along behind them no matter what they do? It doesn't make any of us Anti-American or anti-Trump to ask questions about WTF he's up to. He promised us America First and now we're on the brink of war with Syria, North Korea, and Russia.

How dare I ask what my president is up to? Maybe you should stop challenging our patriotism.

You love to misstate things, either purposely or because you're a 50 year old new balance wearing troll.

Or both.

So don't be so insufferably dramatic.

No one is "shouting" you down for questioning intent (that's a dumb as your other comment), but you keep acting like a hysterical girl saying "questioning our leaders is patriotic" to justify the attacks.

You aren't questioning out leaders.

You're disrespectful, snarky, hysterical, and inaccurate both in your accusations and what you claim you are doing.

50 year old, new balance wearing troll.

(04-14-2017 11:48 PM)BrewDog Wrote:  Yet your undying support for Trump without allowing any dissension over his flip-flopping is somehow prudent and wise?

Anyone that asks any questions about Trump's true intent is immediately shouted down in here.

How dare I ask what my president is up to? Maybe you should stop challenging our patriotism.

In this post Brewdog is claiming that his (and everyone else's) loud and constant dissension of Trump is concrete evidence that no dissension of Trump is allowed!

We're not questioning your patriotism; we're questioning your sanity and devotion to truth based on the Really Big Lie in your post.

Edited to add: we (meaning Fisto and I) are also questioning your choice in sneakers, which, quite frankly, is worse than questioning your patriotism. Holy shit.

Lastly, men like Anonymous Bosch, Handsome Creepy Eel, Zelcorpion, and AManLikePutin have routinely criticized Trump without being shouted down or called trolls. This is because their criticisms never come off as hysterical, Spergish, nor dishonest.

(04-14-2017 03:19 PM)rockoman Wrote:  ..China is a currency manipulator. All countries are currency manipulators. It's what their central banks are for.

(04-14-2017 11:08 PM)Fisto Wrote:  A classic example is the "China isn't a currency manipulator" controversy.

Yeah... this is an archetypal example of a "fake" controversy, and has been making me figuratively scratch my head.

I used to work with currency rates and interest rates across different nations on a day-to-day basis.

Pretty much all countries that have central banks are manipulating currency... by design!

That's what central banks are there for... to control the money supply, shift interest rates, affect exports/imports, etc.... it's a feature, not a bug. Although whether that feature is even good for their own countries in the short-term, much less the long-term, is unclear...

I don't care if Trump says China is a currency manipulator or not, and/or then allegedly flip flops on that statement. Since pretty much all countries with central banks are currency manipulators, one could say "currency manipulator" is but a relative and contextually-dependent label. In which case, Trump (or anyone) could say China is not a currency manipulator in some context--and say China is a currency manipulator in another context--without contradiction.

This China-as-Currency-Manipulator-or-Maybe-Not "Controversy" is incredibly trivial.

I view it as far lesser in importance than whatever happened or will happen in Syria, and (as I mentioned in this thread) whatever happened or will happen in Syria is of little importance next to issues like immigration and illegal immigration.

I (still) think this China-Currency-"Controversy" and Syria "Controversy" are driven in large part by "flash grenades" from leftists to muddy the waters and poison the well, in an effort to distract.

(04-15-2017 12:14 AM)Fisto Wrote:  50 year old, new balance wearing troll.

How do you know I'm wearing New Balance? Can you see me right now?

What shoe should I be wearing to be in with the cool group? And what jeans should I wear? Are Wranglers ok?

(04-14-2017 07:17 PM)RawGod Wrote:  A humble proposal: let's fucking STOP using the term "4D chess" and all its variations either to praise Trump or to mock him. It's not exactly witty anymore and makes me want to take a baseball bat to my screen.

(04-15-2017 12:20 AM)BrewDog Wrote:  

(04-15-2017 12:14 AM)Fisto Wrote:  50 year old, new balance wearing troll.

How do you know I'm wearing New Balance? Can you see me right now?

What shoe should I be wearing to be in with the cool group? And what jeans should I wear? Are Wranglers ok?

Wranglers are fine brother!

I don't want to cause a ruckus, but what do you mean 'our patriotism' from that earlier post? I believe you said you are an American citizen, but if you already went ex-pat, living abroad now, why do you care so much? Wouldn't your host country's politics be much more imperative to your life?

Isn't it a bit irrelevant for you now? Or no? If I'm wrong, I'd be ok to walk my comment back in the kennel. Just curious to the minds that are becoming more frequent in the thread. No disrespect intended if you are headed back soon though. If I missed that, please disregard my questions.

(04-15-2017 12:15 AM)MMX2010 Wrote:  

(04-14-2017 11:48 PM)BrewDog Wrote:  Yet your undying support for Trump without allowing any dissension over his flip-flopping is somehow prudent and wise?

Anyone that asks any questions about Trump's true intent is immediately shouted down in here.

How dare I ask what my president is up to? Maybe you should stop challenging our patriotism.

In this post Brewdog is claiming that his (and everyone else's) loud and constant dissension of Trump is concrete evidence that no dissension of Trump is allowed!

We're not questioning your patriotism; we're questioning your sanity and devotion to truth based on the Really Big Lie in your post.

Edited to add: we (meaning Fisto and I) are also questioning your choice in sneakers, which, quite frankly, is worse than questioning your patriotism. Holy shit.

Lastly, men like Anonymous Bosch, Handsome Creepy Eel, Zelcorpion, and AManLikePutin have routinely criticized Trump without being shouted down or called trolls. This is because their criticisms never come off as hysterical, Spergish, nor dishonest.

Agreed, we are lucky to have those posters who bring well reasoned and legitimate arguments.

Things I'm concerned about; Veterans healthcare, healthcare, that he won't go far enough on illegals, the contant threat of deep state subversion or sabotage.

(04-15-2017 01:29 AM)Gustavus Adolphus Wrote:  

(04-15-2017 12:20 AM)BrewDog Wrote:  

(04-15-2017 12:14 AM)Fisto Wrote:  50 year old, new balance wearing troll.

How do you know I'm wearing New Balance? Can you see me right now?

What shoe should I be wearing to be in with the cool group? And what jeans should I wear? Are Wranglers ok?

Wranglers are fine brother!

I don't want to cause a ruckus, but what do you mean 'our patriotism' from that earlier post? I believe you said you are an American citizen, but if you already went ex-pat, living abroad now, why do you care so much? Wouldn't your host country's politics be much more imperative to your life?

Isn't it a bit irrelevant for you now? Or no? If I'm wrong, I'd be ok to walk my comment back in the kennel. Just curious to the minds that are becoming more frequent in the thread. No disrespect intended if you are headed back soon though. If I missed that, please disregard my questions.

Gustavus, I spend as much time overseas as possible. But in between, my work is in the USA. I have a house in the US, and as such, I'm still very concerned about the politics of my nation.

I don't understand why people demand that others qualify our worthiness as citizens to question our government. And I'm not speaking of you, I'm talking of society as a whole. It's as if I, an American citizen, need to somehow earn my right to speak up when I think my government is wrong. And I vehemently disagree with that premise.

If I do in fact need to earn the prerogative to question the United States government, here's mine: I joined the United States Marines when I was 17 and I was in a rifle company for 5 years. Afterwards, I served the United States of America as a civilian GS-13 for many years. During that time, I learned that the government does more fucked up shit than the average American can ever fathom.

Yeah, I'm suspicious of my government. Because I know what kinds of evil they're capable of, and much of their doings are completely immoral and unjust. I grew up as a child with Ronny Reagan as my president and thought my government could do no wrong. Americans were the good guys. And then I joined up with the government and I discovered that we're not always the guy with the white hat on the white horse.

I'm not anti-Trump. If some of you are diligent enough to read through all my posts, then you'll see that I recently stated more than once that I was about to board the Trump train. I want the man to do well. Why would I wish my country failure? That would mean failure for me, and I don't want that.

I think perhaps it's wise that we create another Trump thread where dissent is allowed. The rah rah Trump people can post only nice things in here, and in the other thread, the rest of us can have honest debates about his mistakes without hearing about 5D chess.

There isn't one policy that has taken a "u-turn". Yet it keeps being repeated, it's getting tiring.

Trump never said he's going to sit by while NK develops a nuclear weapon while they are actively threatening SK, USA and Japan on a weekly basis. Where does this idea come from? In fact he talked about dealing with NK multiple times and how Kim is a maniac, all through the campaign.

He never said Russia is our best friend and we shall never upset them. T simply said it would be nice to get along, that he doesn't want problems with Russia. Which of course is true, we don't want needless problems with anyone.

Saying you would like to get along does not mean you are now required to sit by and do nothing and let an ambitious and aggressive competitor do as they please and advance their interests ahead of yours. Putin is certainly not sitting there thinking "I don't want to upset the U.S. at any cost", and I doubt that Russians on forums are talking about how disappointed they are in Putin when he upsets the United States.

When Russian jets buzzed our ships ridiculously close just recently, for the third or fourth time in the last few months, or when a they buzzed a Navy aircraft within 10 feet last year, is that good ol' Putin just wanting to get along?

Is Trump never allowed to take anything new into consideration, or information he could not have known before entering the oval office - that none of us know - simply because he said "it would be nice to get along"?

If I tell you it would be nice to get along, and then your hand moves closer to my girls ass.. I might have to remind you that getting along is backed up by my fists guiding you to that end.

(04-15-2017 01:48 AM)BrewDog Wrote:  I think perhaps it's wise that we create another Trump thread where dissent is allowed. The rah rah Trump people can post only nice things in here, and in the other thread, the rest of us can have honest debates about his mistakes without hearing about 5D chess.

No one has a problem with "dissent" - it's not even dissent, just guys voicing their opinions, dissent is too harsh of a term.

I have also seen almost no "rah-rah" at all, if you are meaning blind enthusiasm.

Honest debates are great, but there has been a lot of dishonesty in the debate concerning this Syria thing.

Just using you for an example, when I wrote of the tremendous changes Trump has implemented and all the promises he has already fulfilled or begun to fulfill, you responded by having no idea what I was talking about, none.

Yet you were hyper attuned to this Syria thing, which is not even 5% of what has gone on, and pining for Crazy Gary Johnson to come take over.

So what is one supposed to make of that? Do I conclude you are lying, to yourself and others? Blind to what has gone on? Ignorant? How could one not see or appreciate the dozens of positive and real changes already made?

Well, you're clearly not stupid, and I don't think you're lying. What I think is that maybe you have specific things you're passionate about, and when that thing is not exactly how you want it you get anxious or angry, and can only see that thing- the rest is dismissed or ignored. This can apply to many others as well in the past week.

Pointing out that 95% of things happening under Trump are awesome, and that he is in fact fulfilling the vast majority of promises as we speak is about as far away from "rah-rah" as I can imagine. It's simply true.

Dissent away my brothers, all I hope for is keeping things in perspective.

(04-15-2017 02:39 AM)GlobalMan Wrote:  Yet you were hyper attuned to this Syria thing, which is not even 5% of what has gone on, and pining for Crazy Gary Johnson to come take over.

Yes, you're right. When my president bombs a sovereign country without even consulting Congress in violation of the US Constitution, I pay attention to it. Perhaps I was indeed "hyper attuned" to the situation. If every American isn't hyper attuned to their country dropping bombs, then that's just a shameful situation. Americans need to watch less Honey Boo Boo and read more news.

And why is Gary Johnson crazy? Do you think Gary Johnson would fly to Florida every week to play golf while taking two 747's, a C-17 cargo plane, and dozens of Secret Service agents? No way. Gary Johnson cares about your taxdollars. Just like he saved New Mexico over a billion dollars in the 8 years he was governor.

(04-15-2017 01:48 AM)BrewDog Wrote:  

(04-15-2017 01:29 AM)Gustavus Adolphus Wrote:  

(04-15-2017 12:20 AM)BrewDog Wrote:  

(04-15-2017 12:14 AM)Fisto Wrote:  50 year old, new balance wearing troll.

How do you know I'm wearing New Balance? Can you see me right now?

What shoe should I be wearing to be in with the cool group? And what jeans should I wear? Are Wranglers ok?

Wranglers are fine brother!

I don't want to cause a ruckus, but what do you mean 'our patriotism' from that earlier post? I believe you said you are an American citizen, but if you already went ex-pat, living abroad now, why do you care so much? Wouldn't your host country's politics be much more imperative to your life?

Isn't it a bit irrelevant for you now? Or no? If I'm wrong, I'd be ok to walk my comment back in the kennel. Just curious to the minds that are becoming more frequent in the thread. No disrespect intended if you are headed back soon though. If I missed that, please disregard my questions.

Gustavus, I spend as much time overseas as possible. But in between, my work is in the USA. I have a house in the US, and as such, I'm still very concerned about the politics of my nation.

I don't understand why people demand that others qualify our worthiness as citizens to question our government. And I'm not speaking of you, I'm talking of society as a whole. It's as if I, an American citizen, need to somehow earn my right to speak up when I think my government is wrong. And I vehemently disagree with that premise.

If I do in fact need to earn the prerogative to question the United States government, here's mine: I joined the United States Marines when I was 17 and I was in a rifle company for 5 years. Afterwards, I served the United States of America as a civilian GS-13 for many years. During that time, I learned that the government does more fucked up shit than the average American can ever fathom.

Yeah, I'm suspicious of my government. Because I know what kinds of evil they're capable of, and much of their doings are completely immoral and unjust. I grew up as a child with Ronny Reagan as my president and thought my government could do no wrong. Americans were the good guys. And then I joined up with the government and I discovered that we're not always the guy with the white hat on the white horse.

I'm not anti-Trump. If some of you are diligent enough to read through all my posts, then you'll see that I recently stated more than once that I was about to board the Trump train. I want the man to do well. Why would I wish my country failure? That would mean failure for me, and I don't want that.

I think perhaps it's wise that we create another Trump thread where dissent is allowed. The rah rah Trump people can post only nice things in here, and in the other thread, the rest of us can have honest debates about his mistakes without hearing about 5D chess.

Thank you for your reply. This is a great post!

I chose to ask these questions to you for a reason. I remember you talking about a time in border patrol. Taking on a large opposition, I know you are trained to do that.

It does not surprise me to see you stand your ground here. It is what I expected and that is a good thing.

But if you were in the trenches, against the opposition, and some of the men that were supposed to have your 6, started emotionally swaying more rapidly than the flag in the wind, how would you respond? Since we, this nation, had no other choice but complete failure, is it wrong to ask- and command if needed- to simply hold fast one more minute to see what problems truly exist rather than the conclusions we allow ourselves to jump towards?

As was mentioned previously, our president is simply a human. No more, no less. Mistakes and growing pains are expected. Those that have the voice should not feel imprisoned to keep quiet about their opinion. But they should keep that thought in mind. One guy. Could be any of us in that seat.

Those of us, like you and me, cannot be swayed long term. There is plenty of negativity and pessimism around us - both here and walking our streets. We made it through 44, we'll make it through 45... good, bad, or ugly.

Patriotism depends on that.

Brewdog my man, if you think Gary Johnson should even be near the White House I don't know what to say, we'll just have to disagree on that

(04-15-2017 03:04 AM)GlobalMan Wrote:  Brewdog my man, if you think Gary Johnson should even be near the White House I don't know what to say, we'll just have to disagree on that

He surely doesn't have the credentials of a reality show host.