(04-13-2017 05:54 PM)MOVSM Wrote: Instapundit (law professor) is indignant that the commanders need to get special permission to use non-nuclear weapons, possibly involving lawyers:
Quote:It’s interesting, and perhaps disturbing, that field commanders have to get special permission to use these non-nuclear weapons. I’m especially concerned at the possibility that the permission may involve lawyers.
Quote:General John Nicholson, commander of U.S. forces in Afghanistan, sought and obtained permission to use the MOAB, but it’s unclear how far up the chain of command his request traveled, Martin reports.
I think this comes down to cost. In Afghanistan, for an M777 gun to fire off a Excalibur round, the Canadians need to get permission from the minister of defence back in Canada to authorize using the round. Apparently they cost $500,000 each.
Not sure how it might be in the US but I don't see the MOAB being cheap. Shitty deal though because that call can mean the difference between saving lives or the enemy escaping.
I googled the Excalibur round, wondering how it could be so expensive, and several links on ths first page list it as $68K or $70K. Still expensive, but more believable. It's an extended range, high precision artillery round, with 2m accuracy at 50km.
That was the cost I remember it being when I was in the military, year ago. Also 500k is in CAD.
Re: unit prices, I believe they're including R&D. It's not R&D = $X million, then the production cost = $X million per unit. It's R&D / units + production cost = unit cost, which makes things look way more expensive than they are for continued production, especially early on in the project's life. That's what happened with the F-22 coverage a few years back. The F-22 was going to be quite affordable--you know, relatively speaking for a 5th generation stealth fighter--then they kept slashing the units ordered and the next thing you know each plane seemed stupid expensive. And if people didn't understand that R&D was spread across the planes, it probably sounded insane to spend so much per plane.
So take the MOAB, which they claim costs $16 million per unit. Unless that thing is handmade by virgin elf girls only in certain phases of the moon, there's no way in hell it costs that much per new unit. It's a metal shell with cheap filler and a relatively unsophisticated guidance system. It's just expensive because we probably bought about 20 of the things total (20 * $16 mil = $320 mil, about the total project cost) so they never invested in volume production equipment and 90% of the cost is the R&D share for each bomb.
If we actually bought 1000+ of them, it would probably be substantially less than $1 million per bomb. They can make Tomahawks, which are basically little autonomous airplanes and way more sophisticated than the MOAB because they need to actually follow terrain horizontally and have a lot more guidance systems, for less than $2 million each. The fact that the MOAB is bigger doesn't mean much because the material cost is probably like $20,000.
JDAMs are guided bombs and a complete 1000 pound JDAM costs about $28,000, $25k of which is the guidance kit. As far as I can tell, the MOAB uses a similar guidance system. So, seems to me we could probably crank out MOABs for ~$100k each if we set up a proper factory. Maybe $150k depending on how exactly the guidance works, re: tolerances and calibration, because presumably those wings do something. If they're static and all the control is in the tail, I'll stick with closer to $100k.
Suggests the $314 million total, $16 million unit cost is entirely wrong anyway and refers to another program. And that "nobody knows" how much a MOAB costs, because the Air Force doesn't pay attention. That bit sounds more like the Air Force was evading answering some nosy reporter to me, but who knows.
(04-13-2017 03:23 AM)rockoman Wrote: Wben you responded to Edmund Ironside in the way that you did you were implicitly speaking to anyone who shared his views.
That's your interpretation, but it's not the interpretation. An equally likely one, (actually a more likely one given that I'm explaining my own actions), is that my reply was meant to smooth put Edmund Ironside's negative emotional state, and had nothing to do with you.
What have I said about Sigma? That they inevitably interpret events, so that they're bravely standing Independently, Intelligently, and Alone against their own side . And look at you interpreting my words such that you're standing Independently, Intelligently, and Alone against your own side.
rockoman Wrote:With all this talk of spergs and sigmas you are trying to cast anyone who disagrees with you as having some kind of personality disorder, or as holding the views that they do only because they are some kind of personality type. I'm obviously not the only one who has noticed this. This is textbook case of an 'ad hominem' attack.
No, dude. It's an example of someone who just heard about Sigma less than a week ago arguing with someone who has used that word for at least three years. You're not my equal on this topic, and I won't treat you like one. I'll just talk down to you until you stop wanting to be seen as my equal.
rockoman Wrote:Further, you said somewhere in the thread above:
'When your god-emperor does something you don't understand, keep your mouth shut and your eyes open"
or words to that effect.
If you're too lazy to quote me directly, I'm too bored to take you seriously.
rockoman Wrote:Don't you think enjoining people to keep their mouths shut defeats the purpose of a discussion board such as this. We are after all here to discuss with each other - and to do that without having pseudo-pysychological labels attached to us in an effort to diminish our arguments.
No, I think the Forum is enriched when the people who make the poorest arguments are talked down to. My warning level is zero, so if you think the forum's integrity is being compromised, complain to Roosh.
rockoman Wrote:Trump assumed office having attacked previous administrations for their wars abroad which have 'bled our country dry'. His actions and personnel choices since inaugaration have shown that he is in fact continuing those policies. Everyone who has been following politics for the last 20 years can see that Clinton, Bush or Obama would have made very similar choices.
That's fucking great. Trump is Hillary motherfucking Clinton because he missile striked Syria. Trump is Barrack Hussein Obama, because your purest interpretation of Trump's words says so.
You have to go back.
MMX2010,
Thank you for this comment. You gave us all a very succinct and - alas probably unwittingly - a very amusing insight into exactly what kind of person you are. I actually laughed as I read it. which given that I was feeling a little under the weather today I was very grateful for. Your courageous revelation of your inner life contrasts comically with your attempts to assess me, although I must admit you did get one thing right, although we have never met - that I am not your equal. I most certainly am not.
I will look out for your posts in future. Please don't let any residual shyness stop you from revealing any more of your ... errr fascinating personality. Also, feel free to further analyze me and my posts and what they 'really say' about me. What your analysis lacks in accuracy it more than makes up for in entertainment value.
A final thought. Should a dark cloud of suspicion cross your mind that in the last paragraph I was being sarcastic, then please banish it immediately. I really am looking forward to your posts, especially the quasi-psychological analysis - promise, hand on heart.
Keep 'em coming!
I've seen this behavior before on the forum and its very sad, basically anyone who isn't a dudebrah is either a sperg or a beta according to people like 20102010. The later criticism is more common because most dudebrah's are spergy sigma's in denial and don't want to give away their infantile facade. I've been avoiding these types ,especially for meeting women when winging. Sure the caveman dudebrah gets more pussy than the shy dweeb. However, the caveman dudebrah isn't ever going to ever ever ever ever punch significantly above his weight.
Bitches about ad hominem attacks
Does nothing but make ad hominem attacks.
When people say I'm wrong, that's when I know I'm the most right. - Samseau
04-14-2017 07:56 AM
The following 2 users Like Fisto's post:2 users Like Fisto's post Gmac, MMX2010
Fisto
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Deep state pushes back. FDR faced similar situation. He solved it by reassigning workers, an action later recognized by congress as legitimate.
Trump can do the same thing: "you will do this, or we have a position for you in Greenland. I understand they have really good weather over there, 2-3 days in a year."
Quote:Obama’s holdovers refuse to follow Trump’s directive.
The Wall Street Journal Now we know one reason Democrats blocked President Trump’s first nominee to be secretary of Labor: The bureaucracy is in open rebellion against the new President’s directives. The casus belli is the fiduciary rule, the attempt by Obama Labor Secretary Tom Perez to rewrite the rules for offering investment advice. The rule was supposed to go into effect Monday.
I am afraid that women appreciate cruelty, downright cruelty, more than anything else. They have wonderfully primitive instincts. We have emancipated them, but they remain slaves looking for their masters all the same. They love being dominated.
--Oscar Wilde
(This post was last modified: 04-14-2017 08:11 AM by MOVSM.)
Guys if Rockoman gets on your nerves just put him on ignore. Dude was bold enough to come into the Video Games thread and scold/Concern Dad Troll everyone about how terrible it is to play video games, citing his impressive age of 50 plus, and touting his experience as proof of his knowledge on such matters.
Same advice goes for anyone constantly trolling you or whatever. You don't even have to put him on your ignore list. Is it really that hard to just skip over his posts? I know one thing, you are arguing with a guy you cannot win over. Stubborn guys like IKE or Rocko are just that. Stubborn older men that are more interested in convincing you of something, than any other style of dialog.
I'm confused. It's not really news that the CIA backed the muj against the Soviets. Charlie Wilson's War talks all about it.
Wasn't the CIA still feeding them arms just a few years ago? There was some Chinook that got hit by a modern Stinger and it came from the CIA, IIRC. It wasn't just a leftover from the 80s.
Why anyone thinks the CIA is working in America's best interest is beyond me. I wouldn't trust those fuckers at all.
I think some would be giving their left nut to hear a "meaningless" speech from AG sessions about targeting illegals and gang members and;
Veterans having a glimmer of hope that they'll be taken care of
Companies pledging billions
A Pres Trump handling Korea, Syria, Russia, and China
Trade deficits? Oh man, don't make me laugh.
Would the public even know wtf a deep state is?
Social Justice forefront of every goddamn event/topic/agenda
Oh my god we have got it so good and we have I'm sorry to say it, a bunch of ingrates that have turned on our President at the first signs of trouble.
You know what really worries me?
That our President, who decided to sacrifice the last productive years of his life and instead of doing ANYTHING he could have possibly dreamed up and living not just comfortable, but doing ANYTHING instead decided he would take on the whole goddamn world and not just his enemies screaming hateful things (have you ever read anything after he posts on twitter) but his "friends" are now jumping on him.
I feel so sad for this man. To look out at the people he's trying to help and find out that "big" twitter personas are turning on him or RVF "red pill" men are talking shit and what if one day he says "These people are not loyal to me, why did I do this"?
Mike, Paul Joseph Watson, Ramzpaul and others really fucked up.
President Trump values loyalty above all else and he never forgets. I am not in any shape or form saying that he is above criticism, but he has earned the benefit of the doubt so many times over.
I really hope he keeps having rallies so he can see that there are many people that believe in him.
He's an extraordinary man but he is still a human being.
Thank God he is our President and not Hillary.
When people say I'm wrong, that's when I know I'm the most right. - Samseau
(04-14-2017 08:14 AM)TravelerKai Wrote: Guys if Rockoman gets on your nerves just put him on ignore. Dude was bold enough to come into the Video Games thread and scold/Concern Dad Troll everyone about how terrible it is to play video games, citing his impressive age of 50 plus, and touting his experience as proof of his knowledge on such matters.
Same advice goes for anyone constantly trolling you or whatever. You don't even have to put him on your ignore list. Is it really that hard to just skip over his posts? I know one thing, you are arguing with a guy you cannot win over. Stubborn guys like IKE or Rocko are just that. Stubborn older men that are more interested in convincing you of something, than any other style of dialog.
If you remember, I made my critical (of video gaming) comment over there basically agreeing with the first few posters in the thread. You guys rightly took me to task for my abrupt and gauche comment in view of the changed nature of the thread - it had basically changed into a fan thread. Following that I apologized and withdrew.
Getting back on topic here:
I would love to be won over. If you guys here can convincingly show me that Trump is not following his predecessors' policies of militarist adventurism overseas and is putting the Republic before Empire, as per his expressed policy during the campaign, then nobody will be more pleased then me.
What we see instead is that with his domestic agenda largely stymied - no repeal and replace of Obamacare, no tax reform - Trump is resorting to throwing his weight around overseas - as Bush Sr, Clinton, Bush Jnr. and Obama did before him. The jury is still out on the explanation for his abrupt reversal, but I tend towards Trump having being absorbed by the deep state. This is especially so when you see that it is not just the policy changes, but far more that in the last couple of months he has surrounded himself with deep state operatives like McMaster.
It is very useful for the war Party to have Trump implementing their agenda abroad. Any fuckups - which will very likely occur - will then be blamed on Trump, the whole "anti-SJW' brand will be tainted and the US Ends up with somebody like Elizabeth Warren in the White House after 2020. Bottom line, at the moment Trump is expending his political capital overseas for our political enemies.
Anatoly Karlin was a Trump supporter in November. I recommend reading his very thorough analysis here:
(04-14-2017 09:01 AM)Fisto Wrote: Thought experiment; Hillary won.
Loretta Lynch is AG
"DWS" is Chief of Staff
Donna Brazile is an adviser.
I think some would be giving their left nut to hear a "meaningless" speech from AG sessions about targeting illegals and gang members and;
...
Social Justice forefront of every goddamn event/topic/agenda
Oh my god we have got it so good and we have I'm sorry to say it, a bunch of ingrates that have turned on our President at the first signs of trouble.
Yes, from the vantage point of early 2016, we really are living in the brightest timeline (avoiding the usual ineffectual, impotent, clueless GOP candidate/president and avoiding a Democrat president)--and from the vantage point of late 2016, narrowly escaped the darkest timeline (avoiding a Hillary presidency).
What's also very important is that a Trump blitzkrieg campaign and victory really shifted the Overton Window on public discourse.
It became to dawn upon a lot of "regular" white and Asian American men that, "oh shit, liberals despise me, and the racial spoils system and feminism is much more destructive than I realized."
And secondly a lot of "regular" Asian and white American men (perhaps not the exact same individuals as above) realized that, "oh shit, it's not just me, lots of people think this bullshit PC-leftist culture is retarded and needs to be combated" and are now more eager to shit-lord both in the virtual realm and in schools, workplaces, academia.
Realism when it comes to the sexes, race, trannies/gays, is diffusing into public discourse. Racial and sex egalitarianism, and the scope creep of the tranny/gay lobby, is increasingly getting questioned, countered, slammed.
(04-14-2017 08:14 AM)TravelerKai Wrote: Guys if Rockoman gets on your nerves just put him on ignore. Dude was bold enough to come into the Video Games thread and scold/Concern Dad Troll everyone about how terrible it is to play video games, citing his impressive age of 50 plus, and touting his experience as proof of his knowledge on such matters.
Same advice goes for anyone constantly trolling you or whatever. You don't even have to put him on your ignore list. Is it really that hard to just skip over his posts? I know one thing, you are arguing with a guy you cannot win over. Stubborn guys like IKE or Rocko are just that. Stubborn older men that are more interested in convincing you of something, than any other style of dialog.
If you remember, I made my critical (of video gaming) comment over there basically agreeing with the first few posters in the thread. You guys rightly took me to task for my abrupt and gauche comment in view of the changed nature of the thread - it had basically changed into a fan thread. Following that I apologized and withdrew.
Getting back on topic here:
I would love to be won over. If you guys here can convincingly show me that Trump is not following his predecessors' policies of militarist adventurism overseas and is putting the Republic before Empire, as per his expressed policy during the campaign, then nobody will be more pleased then me.
What we see instead is that with his domestic agenda largely stymied - no repeal and replace of Obamacare, no tax reform - Trump is resorting to throwing his weight around overseas - as Bush Sr, Clinton, Bush Jnr. and Obama did before him. The jury is still out on the explanation for his abrupt reversal, but I tend towards Trump having being absorbed by the deep state. This is especially so when you see that it is not just the policy changes, but far more that in the last couple of months he has surrounded himself with deep state operatives like McMaster.
It is very useful for the war Party to have Trump implementing their agenda abroad. Any fuckups - which will very likely occur - will then be blamed on Trump, the whole "anti-SJW' brand will be tainted and the US Ends up with somebody like Elizabeth Warren in the White House after 2020. Bottom line, at the moment Trump is expending his political capital overseas for our political enemies.
Anatoly Karlin was a Trump supporter in November. I recommend reading his very thorough analysis here:
Rocko, what exactly do you suggest should be done about NK and Syria? Trump has been handed an absolute mess here from Clinton, Bush and Obama. Retreating and pretending these problems don't exist is simply not going to work. I agree that a full scale invasion of these places that the neocons are itching for is a horrible idea but the notion that Trump can just ignore these issues is nonsense. What I'm seeing is that Trump is employing the strategy that Reagan used to defeat the USSR and that is peace through strength. Right now Trump is projecting strength and fortitude by these various actions, letting the worlds bad actors know that the era of Obama fecklessness is over. The way Trump has gotten China on board to try and neuter NK is an amazing feat of diplomacy. The only way to defuse the NK threat is to get China on board and the way he's gotten China on board is to use our economic leverage on them to force them to start dealing with this problem. Letting China know that we'll solve it ourselves is additional impetus for China to begin doing something about NK. Without China, NK cannot exist, period.
Now by getting China of all countries on board with the program, it's had the added effect of putting pressure on Russia to figure out a solution in Syria. That's why Putin changed his mind and decided to meet with Tillerson. You're going to get a solution in Syria that will not involve WW3. However, you don't solve problems by being scared and weak just like Obama, nor do you solve them by being a reckless cowboy like Bush. I would suggest everyone here take a deep breath and watch what Trump is doing.
Kai is right, we do have quite a few older guys, some who are relatively new here, coming in guns a blazing on a bunch of other threads thumping their chests about how great they are, how right they are about everything, and not demonstrating a whole lot of humility and reflectiveness on various threads. These guys should know better. Life exists in shades of grey, not black and white and it would do a lot of people good to understand this and not be so dogmatic about Trump and other things. Trump will do things you like and things you don't, just accept it. As long as he does the things he promised in a broad scope, I'm not going to nitpick details.
The purpose of money isn't for buying shit, it is for buying your way out of shit.
04-14-2017 12:11 PM
The following 2 users Like doc holliday's post:2 users Like doc holliday's post Caractacus Potts, greekgod
Fisto becoming president of the US is not a sacrifice. Its pretty much the ultimate ambition any human being on the planet can have. Some peoole spend all their fortunes trying to become deputies in a parliament in a 3rd world country.
And Trump is a career business and TV man. He never held office and never was an activist. I dont think he has been tested. Thats why people wont just sit bacj and trust anything he does.
A good leader should value honest advice more than blind loyalty.
You cant expect him to do something 180 degrees opposed to what he said and not have people call him out or be perplexed by it, especially when his team is half full of those who are completely against what most of the personalities stand for.
The Parable of the No-Skin-In-The-Game Trump Supporter
And you will see them come out of the darkness, those that are not living in these United States, to complain and bring down the morale of what we are trying to achieve over the next 8 years. They will test your Faith, but behold! They are simply ghosts of the internet, and the spiritual cockroaches will survive no matter how many you step on- a fool's errand- you need only have the Power to simply turn on the Light and they vanish!
Have you not known thy bandwagon before? These fans are true fanatics for the cause, until they are fanatics for the next! Wave goodbye to their fair- weather! Believe me, we have the best supporters. They are with you, and the voices you hear the loudest in a lull are the echoes of negativity, like fans of a sports team they have no rightful claim, never even visiting my chapels on the campuses of the likes of Louisiana State University, but complain how "We Tigers are losing"! They are not, and have never, paid the tuition to be a Tiger- they barnacle their way onto anything popular until the Crimson Tide wrecks their shallow beliefs. Beware the No-Skin-In-The-Game Supporter!
There has been some commentary out there about who should get credit for Trump's win in November. The biggest key and biggest surprise to the pundits was that swath across Pennsylvania, Ohio, Michigan, Wisconsin. How did that happen?
Was it Trump himself, being willing to bluntly speak the truth about issues where Americans long ago tired of lies, and his high energy tireless campaigning? Surely that was a big part.
Was it Bannon for pushing a nationalist agenda that appealed to those people. Sure a bit of credit is due.
How about Kellyanne Conway's campaign management, figuring out that those states were truly in play and that an investment there could pay off. Definitely.
Milo Yiannopoulos has run into hard times since, but he was influencing younger voters, going straight into the lion's den of college campuses, including a lot of them in the states mentioned.
But, for all of that, maybe the one person who doesn't get enough credit is the guy who really had his finger on the pulse of the voters in that region ... who starred in a video that went viral because it contained an extremely articulate and blunt explanation of truth about the mood that was tapped to help create a movement. He might have a cuck face and man-boobs ... he might sound like a raving loon 99.9% of the time, but Michael Moore made a great contribution during our hour of need and deserves to be remembered:
(I found some links to the video from back during the campaign are dead now, but did find this version. There was a better edit that included background music that I didn't find easily.)
Quote:Immigration Hawks Ascend to Senior DHS Positions
Two leading advocates for reforming illegal and legal immigration enforcement were appointed by President Donald Trump to serve as senior advisors for the Department of Homeland Security (DHS).
Jon Feere, the former legal analyst for the Center for Immigration Studies, and Julie Kirchner, the previous executive director for the Federation of American Immigration Reform (FAIR), have both been appointed to senior positions.
Feere, who work with the Trump campaign and transition team on immigration policy, will serve as the senior adviser to the Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) agency Director Thomas Homan.
Kirchner, a campaign alum as well, will serve as the senior adviser to Customs and Border Protection (CBP) Commissioner Kevin McAleenan.
Center for Immigration Studies Executive Director Mark Krikorian told Breitbart Texas that the Trump Administration appointed a person who “knows the ins and outs” of immigration when they chose Feere to serve.
“ICE needs somebody like Jon because he’s worked on immigration policy for many years,” Krikorian said. “After eight years of Obama, there were civil servants and people at ICE who weren’t as quite up to date on immigration enforcement.”
FAIR spokesperson Ira Mehlman told Breitbart Texas that Kirchner’s appointment is welcome news.
“They’re both people with long experience and deep knowledge and they’re highly qualified for their positions,” Mehlman said.
Both the Center for Immigration Studies and FAIR have long been advocates for increased border security, a wall, reforming foreign guest worker visas and lower levels of legal immigration to help American wages to rise.
The appointments have come with the usual media backlash that the Trump Administration has grown accustomed to.
CNN, for instance, has written that Feere and Kirchner’s appointments have “alarmed” the open borders lobby. The network propped up opposition to the appointments through the left-wing Southern Poverty Law Center, with Director Heidi Beirich claiming that that the Center for Immigration Studies and FAIR publish “racist” and “xenophobic” reports.
Krikorian, though, said the open borders lobby is only outraged because they know how effective both nominees could be.
“This isn’t a complaint about qualification,” Krikorian told Breitbart Texas. “Jon and these others know what they’re doing and that’s what the anti-borders groups are afraid of.”
Quote:Immigration Hawks Ascend to Senior DHS Positions
Two leading advocates for reforming illegal and legal immigration enforcement were appointed by President Donald Trump to serve as senior advisors for the Department of Homeland Security (DHS).
Jon Feere, the former legal analyst for the Center for Immigration Studies, and Julie Kirchner, the previous executive director for the Federation of American Immigration Reform (FAIR), have both been appointed to senior positions.
Feere, who work with the Trump campaign and transition team on immigration policy, will serve as the senior adviser to the Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) agency Director Thomas Homan.
Kirchner, a campaign alum as well, will serve as the senior adviser to Customs and Border Protection (CBP) Commissioner Kevin McAleenan.
Center for Immigration Studies Executive Director Mark Krikorian told Breitbart Texas that the Trump Administration appointed a person who “knows the ins and outs” of immigration when they chose Feere to serve.
“ICE needs somebody like Jon because he’s worked on immigration policy for many years,” Krikorian said. “After eight years of Obama, there were civil servants and people at ICE who weren’t as quite up to date on immigration enforcement.”
FAIR spokesperson Ira Mehlman told Breitbart Texas that Kirchner’s appointment is welcome news.
“They’re both people with long experience and deep knowledge and they’re highly qualified for their positions,” Mehlman said.
Both the Center for Immigration Studies and FAIR have long been advocates for increased border security, a wall, reforming foreign guest worker visas and lower levels of legal immigration to help American wages to rise.
The appointments have come with the usual media backlash that the Trump Administration has grown accustomed to.
CNN, for instance, has written that Feere and Kirchner’s appointments have “alarmed” the open borders lobby. The network propped up opposition to the appointments through the left-wing Southern Poverty Law Center, with Director Heidi Beirich claiming that that the Center for Immigration Studies and FAIR publish “racist” and “xenophobic” reports.
Krikorian, though, said the open borders lobby is only outraged because they know how effective both nominees could be.
“This isn’t a complaint about qualification,” Krikorian told Breitbart Texas. “Jon and these others know what they’re doing and that’s what the anti-borders groups are afraid of.”
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