I missed the debate because of work.

Someone should sum up the debate, full on RVF style.

Gifs, AMOGing, Trump-isms, anything related to oil, triggering, etc.

I believe Mr. Trump made multiple substantive points and was clearly being targeted by CNN to tear him down.

Mr. Trump is consolidating his momentum with Alpha Prime mojo and the liberal CNN and political talking heads just don't get it - Americans are fed up with the Obamunists destroying our country and killing the middle class and urban workers.

Bush are Rand are both losing momentum dramatically and have lost their beta mojo if they ever even had it.

Trump didn't come off too well tonight.

Didn't bomb, but he didn't do too well either.

What's worse that the media won't shut up about how Fiorina "shut down" trump.

(09-16-2015 01:24 PM)Fisto Wrote:  I am very worried about an assassination.

Think about the sheer amount of money that will be lost by so many different groups of people if he does what he says.

Yes - if he is not one of them and will do a 180 when in office, then his next action will be to do a Kennedy. Then at least we will know that he wasn't a traitor and stooge like the rest of them.

But I don't think that it will come to that. If he isn't one of them, then they will do everything possible to stop him from running against Hillary. He will step down for "personal reasons", have a warning accident or his daughter will have an "accident". There are many ways to make this happen.

Protecting himself against drug cartels is one thing - against CIA covert wet teams - that is something else altogether. He doesn't have enough money to protect himself against Big Brother.

(09-17-2015 01:38 AM)Tex Pro Wrote:  Trump didn't come off too well tonight.

Didn't bomb, but he didn't do too well either.

What's worse that the media won't shut up about how Fiorina "shut down" trump.

He needs to actually start studying the issues a little more instead of winging it or repeating the same old stuff constantly.

Overall it was a mediocre performance. I don't think it'll hurt him but he needs to be ready with more substantive answers to the few questions that aren't retarded. Unfortunately (or fortunately in his case) most of the ones asked were stupid as fuck.

Just a thought re: Trump and Israel. I think there are two ways of thinking about Israel.

1) Israel v. its neighbors--Israel has done a lot with its small piece of land--good universities, hospitals, tech industry, etc. Neighboring states (w/ exception of parts of Lebanon like East Beirut) not so much. As a Westerner, therefore, why wouldn't one have an instinct to prefer Israel to its neighbors, seems natural.

2) Slave-like devotion to Israel at the expense of US interests. (This seems wrong: US and Israel are different countries, hence interests may sometimes coincide, sometimes differ. US politicians should choose US over Israel when interests differ. Some don't--clearly this is bad)

Bush, Rubio, Cruz seem to hold position 2 (and also probably 1).
To me, Trump holds 1 but not 2.

I may be wrong, but that's my view and why Trumps's "pro-Israel" stance doesn't bother me.

Mr. Trump was also the only one in the debate to warn of the Psycho Rogue Nuke Regime in North Korea:

https://youtu.be/AICHmk4GZyE

I would be bothered if Trump was pro-Palestine.

Watched the debate tonight with a very popular black Christian conservative, who has a very large following. He was telling me he wouldn't be surprised if Trump got 35% of the black vote.

He said the black vote is almost in a consensus for Trump. This is the southwest, so, more effected by immigration than say, Alabama, but he was pretty adamant there is a groundswell of support for Trump in the black community.

Trump wasn't his first choice, but he thinks Trump will win the next presidency.

I think, Trump last night played it safe on-stage, because he is the front runner; so, why would he risk everything by being too flamboyant or verbally aggressive.

As long as he remains the front-runner in all polls, him being a bit cautious, not subdued but cautious, is normal. You don't take big communication risks when victory seems to be within reach: you consolidate your momentum and thread carefully.

But I mostly agree with The Wastelander, Trump should study in detail some new, and notably international, issues. In particular, he should read the thread here on Europe-Invasion, to learn in depth about this issue, and use it as a God-sent gift for his campaign. He should bring this example up in every debate... I mean, the brother-continent of America being undone live by hordes of illegal migrants (Schengen suspended, it's Europe undone), it's a golden gift for Trump's campaign...

I really liked Rand Paul's answers and have always liked his policy...but I don't think he'll win. He's too smart, just like his Dad and his policy stances just make too much sense without charisma. Its like when Rand speaks, you are required to think...which is asking too much of the electorate. He would make an excellent policy advisor, physician general, secretary of state etc but just isn't relate-able enough for president. He would fail the 'rally the troops over a few beers' test.

The thing with Trump is he did not have a lack of substance as a lot of people say.

He was right about the 14th Amendment.
He was right about immigration.
He's right that this is mostly about management.
He's right about domestic policy for the most part.

Where Trump lacked substance was in foreign policy. But again, it's about management. Not every President we've ever had was a wizard with facts. This is something of a modern construction. The best were typically the best managers, not necessarily factual wizards.

(09-17-2015 02:35 AM)HenryM Wrote:  Just a thought re: Trump and Israel. I think there are two ways of thinking about Israel.

1) Israel v. its neighbors--Israel has done a lot with its small piece of land--good universities, hospitals, tech industry, etc. Neighboring states (w/ exception of parts of Lebanon like East Beirut) not so much. As a Westerner, therefore, why wouldn't one have an instinct to prefer Israel to its neighbors, seems natural.

2) Slave-like devotion to Israel at the expense of US interests. (This seems wrong: US and Israel are different countries, hence interests may sometimes coincide, sometimes differ. US politicians should choose US over Israel when interests differ. Some don't--clearly this is bad)

Bush, Rubio, Cruz seem to hold position 2 (and also probably 1).
To me, Trump holds 1 but not 2.

I may be wrong, but that's my view and why Trumps's "pro-Israel" stance doesn't bother me.

I agree with your point number two and a country, ideally, should be self sustaining.

The Arab countries surrounding Israel teach, in THEIR SCHOOLS TO SCHOOL CHILDREN , the following things:

* Jews are on par with pigs.
* All jews are to be killed and it is okay to do so.
* The recommended use for dead jews body parts ( i.e., use their skin for lampshades, etc)

Not to mention the constant, virulent hatred preached in the surrounding territories about Jews. Yes, the poverty and boundary lines there are a tough situation to solve. Fact is, Yasser Arafat was offered absolutely everything he wanted by Clinton, in terms of new boundaries and land, in the 90s and he turned it down.

Why? Because, like Al Sharpton, he isn't looking for a solution but continued conflict as it was the source of his power.

Meantime, these Arab and Islamic countries surrounding Israel dance when 911 happens and shout death to America. You don't see Israel doing that.

I know it's because we support them militarily and financially, and maybe we need to scale that back, that's fine. The thing is, they're surrounded by multiple countries and territories that simply want them and their children dead.

It would be like living in the midwest in the US and every state surrounding you preached hatred of everyone in your state, taught their school kids that it was okay to kill all of you and was plotting the long term termination of all in your state.

I kind of don't get all the anti-Israel support here. I'm sure it will be explained to me.

(09-17-2015 07:54 AM)Libertas Wrote:  The thing with Trump is he did not have a lack of substance as a lot of people say.

He was right about the 14th Amendment.
He was right about immigration.
He's right that this is mostly about management.
He's right about domestic policy for the most part.

Where Trump lacked substance was in foreign policy. But again, it's about management. Not every President we've ever had was a wizard with facts. This is something of a modern construction. The best were typically the best managers, not necessarily factual wizards.

At this point in history this is probably a good thing. The U.S. has been tinkering around with the rest of the world way too much. A lot of the foreign policies enacted have actually been detrimental for the average U.S. citizen. Dialing it back a bit and going through a period while the U.S. cleans up domestic and border issues should take priority.

Trump's lack of foreign policy stances (aside from border issues) is refreshing. If Hillary is in power you can bet we're looking at a fresh new round of fucking around in the middle east.

I'm not anti-Israel. I'm anti-them-dominating-our-foreign-policy and making criticizing them an unspeakable crime worthy of political exile. The fact that a foreign power has that much influence in our politics bothers me as an American.

What we saw last night was basically a competition to see who could out-Israel each other for sweet Sheldon Adelson (who was in attendance) money. He hasn't decided who he's backing yet so they were doing the best they could to entice him.

If you ever were doubtful about the influence of the Israel political lobby just look at all the cucking going on in this debate. Israel is a nation of 8 million people. EIGHT MILLION PEOPLE. Just a comparison, New York City has around that many people. Israel isn't even particularly significant these days when you're talking strategy especially with Turkey and half the gulf arabs being in America's pocket.

Why is Israel so important then? It holds a place in historical guilt, the evangelical right's religious narrative, and the fact that many influential lobbyists/politicos/academics are indeed very pro Israel.

Of course if you point out the obvious the "anti-semitism" klaxons start sounding with predictable overreactions to rational observations.

I think Israel is very crafty and they are really good at geopolitics They have essentially crafted the U.S. into this giant human shield who throws money at them and also enacts various crackpot policies coming out of Israel's own think tanks. Plus so many Americans are basically sent as waves of cannon fodder to fight and die for sketchy policies. Neo conservatism wasn't just a Fukayama creation..it started way before then and was refined by the Likud party.

Israel runs USA. All the politicians cater to the lobbyists.

Look at the amount of foreign aid that America gives Israel.

http://journalistsresource.org/studies/i...nal-report

I like Trump, find him entertaining. However, I think that lady rattled him last night. She made the comment he has been bankrupt 4 times, so how does he expect to run a country.

The vaccine discussion was shocking, I am sure there are more important subjects to discuss.

Ted Cruz came across strong.

Bush is done.

Trump seemed tired last night. You have to remember he's almost 70 and his schedule is grueling . All that flying wears you out. The debate was in California too so he had a long flight. They all did, but he needs to pace himself. He even made a comment about having to stand for 3 hours.

What's interesting about this Isreali influence is that it should no longer be as influential. It isn't on the democratic side because the FORMULA is collapsing.

The formula for Israel foreign policy domination is:

a)Jewish voter spread + b)Lobbying + c)Evangelical useful tools + d)Weapons manufacturers


a)the spread of Jewish voters in swing states like florida and others is being challenged by new immigrants and either couldn't care about Israel or are hostile towards Jews(muslims over 250k a year). In the future, the muslim vote will be more important than the Jewish one. The mixing of Jews with gentiles is also a big problem.

b)Aipac spend 40 million dollars to kill this Iran deal, they bought a lot of air time and stormed into every office in Washington they could to lobby against this deal but they could only convert 2 democratic senators to vote against it. Keep in mind there are 11 Jewish democratic senators and only 2 publicly oppose it, only the ones with a heavy older Jewish constituency. AIPAC is no longer a multi party lobby.

c) Young evangelicals don't want to take trips to Israel and hear stories about how Jesus will come back and fight the devil with a fleet of tanks and missiles. Its only the older generation that have virtually imprinted the current Israeli state flag with the coming of the Messiah.

d) the 3-4 billion dollars the US gives to Israel yearly comes mostly in the form of weapons and is mostly a jobs program for US arms manufacturers. At the height of US-Israeli tensions, Bibi canceled 6 out of 12 fighter jets that Israel ordered from the US(with US money). The arms dealers could not have been happy about that, these are tough guys and their influence will remain.

(09-17-2015 08:42 AM)TheWastelander Wrote:  I'm not anti-Israel. I'm anti-them-dominating-our-foreign-policy and making criticizing them an unspeakable crime worthy of political exile. The fact that a foreign power has that much influence in our politics bothers me as an American.

What we saw last night was basically a competition to see who could out-Israel each other for sweet Sheldon Adelson (who was in attendance) money. He hasn't decided who he's backing yet so they were doing the best they could to entice him.

(09-17-2015 10:30 AM)8ball Wrote:  a)the spread of Jewish voters in swing states like florida and others is being challenged by new immigrants and either couldn't care about Israel or are hostile towards Jews(muslims over 250k a year). In the future, the muslim vote will be more important than the Jewish one. The mixing of Jews with gentiles is also a big problem.

This particular point is very interesting in a well-thought out post in general.

We often like to talk about how Europeans are declining in number in the world, and indeed that is true, but Jews are also declining. They have one of the, if not the largest, outmarriage percentages of all ethnic groups. I think over half now, and maybe as high as 70%, are outmarrying. I have some personal examples.

So yes, you are indeed right. The Israel lobby will be losing influence in the future, for all the reasons you mentioned. Even Roosh mentioned a while back that the policies that Jewish groups have often pushed are now beginning to backfire on them.

The question becomes how much damage the Israel lobby will do in the meantime. As we see in Syria, a lot.

Here were the Donald Trump jokes that brought down the house at the Emmy's. (From Dusty's link.)

""Donald Trump is running for president — to the delight of uncles everywhere," Samberg joked.
"Sure, Donald Trump seems racist," he added, ending his thought there.

"What a great honor it must be for you to honor me tonight. I'm so sorry. Donald Trump said that," Dreyfus said. "It's getting trickier and trickier to satirize this stuff."

My god, these are horrible. You're supposed to be the best actors, the funniest people in the entire world, and that's what you come up with?

Sexy Donald Trump Costume

(09-21-2015 03:53 AM)SamuelBRoberts Wrote:  My god, these are horrible. You're supposed to be the best actors, the funniest people in the entire world, and that's what you come up with?

They're probably too piss-scared to say anything too critical. The Donald can tear them a new one and millions of people will hear about it.