(11-19-2014 12:40 PM)LÉtranger Wrote:  Can we agree on that?

We already did http://www.rooshvforum.com/thread-41952-...#pid883071

(11-19-2014 12:40 PM)LÉtranger Wrote:  Ok what is exactly the crime here? Is he raping anyone?

I already answered.

Quote:A man who advocates -whatever you call it, I call it harassment- holding workshops in variant countries to teach and advise his followers to do the same thing is committing incitement.

Sexual harassment and sexual assault have vague legal definitions both in common law and civil law (Julien is concerned with common law at this point). Any prosecutor or judge with ill will can ruin an honest man's life. A relevant story I witnessed when I was an intern

Quote:A 30-something year-old Turkish man, let’s call him T.M, starts a relationship with a girl who’s in her early 20s. The girl’s parents are conservative and are displeased with this affair. Things heat up when T.M takes his girlfriend on vacation to another city. The father demands T.M returns his daughter, T.M refuses. The daughter talks to her father on the phone, disowns him and refuses to come back. The father gets furious and goes to the police to file a complaint. Because the girl is of legal age, there is nothing the police can do. Then, a prosecutor finds an angle, learns that the girl uses prescribed anti-depressants. And boom! Psychological disorder -> Lack of capacity -> lack of consent -> non-consentual sex -> sexual assault -> rape. T.M was charged and convicted of rape and by rape I mean having consensual sex with his girlfriend who happens to work as a clerk in an insurance firm. I was reading the case because we (the law office) had appealed to the court of appeals to reverse the sentence. He had been in prison for a few years and was still waiting for news about the appeal. I didn’t get a chance to follow up on whether they reversed his sentence or not, but I wouldn’t bet on it.

Full post: http://www.rooshvforum.com/thread-41580-...#pid859673

The point is, you can't take the criminal definitions in civil law, common law or California law (ha ha) as reference when it comes to decide whether some advance on a woman is unlawful or just game. You need to examine the evidence before you and decide for yourself, after all this is what judges and prosecutors do. I'm sure there are many people who would stand by the view that what Roosh and most of us have been doing for years in the name of 'game' is plain sexual assault (a.k.a rape) and we should be imprisoned and even castrated. We all know this is bullshit, since rape victims don't tend to send cringey texts after to their rapists after they've been raped (''hey, you didn't write to me '' ) so this is a solid reference point. But forcing yourself on a cashier girl and forcing 40-kilos girls' heads on your crotch are I think what constitutes as sexual harassment (not assault, not rape).

Another thing is, true that most players harass some girl at one point, since being turned down when you try to kiss some girl in club can also be interpreted as sexual harassment once you touch her lips without consent, but what makes Julien a parasitic asshole is that he is preaching this shit as ''the easiest way to get laid'' (a.k.a game) to masses of men. For that he deserves to burn. Joke aside, many Asian women might end up getting sexually harassed or assaulted thanks to Julien's actions.

TC
You intern story is really amazing. It proves that the law can fck up any young man pretty easily. We both know that.

The fact I am debating in this thread however, is Julien didnt even have the privilege to get fcked by the law. There was no crime report filed by any women, he never went to court etc etc etc
If a sexual assault law was breached, prove it, debate it, judge it, before banning somebody from a whole country!

Russel Brand AMOGing puas,"oh I used to be interested in pickup artists when I was younger. Now that I am rich and famous and embody most of the principles, I am against"

(11-19-2014 11:05 AM)bojangles Wrote:  bring them down! hah, I knew he'd get banned and it's scary because the UK government let in Islamists without thinking twice.

Being banned from a country that allowed the Rotherham child sex scandal....That says more about the country than about Julien Blanc.

(11-19-2014 10:30 AM)HighSpeed_LowDrag Wrote:  Article on Julien Blanc in the Telegraph mentions Roosh by name:

Yeah, that was always the MSM's play.

Lots of idiots here expected people to white knight for Julien....The media would have loved that.

Right now they have to make-up a connection. If guys had fought for RSD, well, there's the connection.

A lot of guys posting here have said some stupid things with great confidence. Reality has smashed those ideas.

It might be prudent to reflect on why you posted stupid things like the "freeze out strategy" and insisting that others white knight for RSD.

Quote:Article on Julien Blanc in the Telegraph mentions Roosh by name:

That was a "test" to see if the mob would spread, but it didn't. That article had little engagement.

(11-19-2014 11:05 AM)bojangles Wrote:  bring them down! hah, I knew he'd get banned and it's scary because the UK government let in Islamists without thinking twice.

Well it's also because the grooming rape gangs in the UK are smart enough not to post their crimes on Youtube

So he's banned from the UK now. Poor guy..... NOT

Only thing that would hurt is the lost income.

Banned from the UK. That's incredible. The feminist movement perpetuated the rise of all the PUA stuff. Now it's suceeding in shutting down companies.

As much as I think RSD chat a lot of shit and make them selves look like bellends for no reason, I still think this guy has been brutally misportrayed by media, and subsequently banned from three countries as if casual procedure.

"Sexual assault" says the UK Home Secretary. Apparently advising on how to overcome lmr is perpetuating rape. Let's all sign a contract before having sex, that will really make the girls wet

#TakeDownTheFuckingIdiotsThatMakeStupidDecisions

Just as an aside, the BBC is an incredibly corrupt mouthpiece of the establishment. They barely mentioned the Rotherham scandal (a small matter of Pakistani gangs raping 1400 white girls), only grudgingly acknowledging it very late.

And right now they are completely ignoring a story about the police investigating allegations of MPs (including a sitting minister) MURDERING children as part of pedophile rings in the 1980s. Police have commented that it is a serious investigation with some corroboration, and the rest of the UK press is reporting it. But not the BBC.

Julien Blanc is big news though. As is the daily "third world go girl" story. Today it is a Lebanese actress sticking it to the patriarchy by wearing a sexy dress. Tomorrow it will no doubt be another brave cross-dressing Afghan schoolgirl. Every single day they run these stories.

Pretty Funny Interview. The woman went to one of the RSD free tours and also undercover as a female target.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-navRaEV8uE

The guy "Psych" brings up a few valid points but is just another hypocritical slime ball pua coach.

   

His UK visa ban is on the front page of the Metro today (a free news paper available on public transport).

The hyperbole and exaggeration continues to mount up - the narrative has gone from saying "he choked women", to "he used chokeholds on women".

Apparently putting a hand on someone's neck is exactly the same thing as now.

Anyone who could actually choke a woman unconscious one-handed, in busy public places, without anyone noticing, should open their own ninja school instead of being a PUA instructor.

^ Gee, it's almost as if not coming out with your own story and countering the lies against you will have delirious effects.

Has YaReally stopped writing 5,000 word missives, i.e., begun freezing everyone out while we laugh at his stupidity and utter failure as a man?

The BBC is an absolute cesspit and it's disgraceful that its paid for by taxpayers.

In terms of Islamists Samseau, one of our soldiers got beheaded in the street by 2 militants who were arrested in Kenya for terrorist activities yet we still let them back into the UK.

Roosh just posted this on his twitter:

http://www.channel4.com/news/us-pick-up-...d-uk-video

If you are still happy Julien Blanc got banned entry in multiple countries after watching this lib dem woman talk, I think its time for you to get another red pill injection.

I think there has been a lot of unreasonable vitriol against Julien, a lot of the manosphere hate and judgement is just the other side of the same coin of that of the social justice warriors as far as I am concerned.

He fucked up. RSD fucked up. Lets all learn what we can from this.

It is good to hear at least something not unreasonably irrational and vitriolic about Julien Blanc.

Maybe its time to really try and uncover some deeper mechanisms in society and the media and roundly expose them.

http://g00.se/truth-behind-julien-blanc/

tiggaling, that article is basically what Tyler and RSD should've done from the start to protect their guy. Coming from that source, and now so late, it means virtually nothing.

Gone off this story for a bit, so it was bit of a surprise to see when reading some of the UK papers online that he's been banned from the country. Didn't expect things to escalate this much to be honest. Here's my original take:

(11-10-2014 12:01 AM)Dismal Operator Wrote:  The behavior is not ok, but by that I mean the overall sociopathic, male attention whoring, addiction to drama this guy has. Runsonmagic touched on that in his article.

The video itself just comes off to me as a giant troll video. I don't see how one can come to the conclusion that his or RSD's core tenets of game is literally to walk up to girls and shove their heads in your crotch while screaming Pikachu. That quote of him saying that is probably a minute or two from a 90 minute seminar which is full of him rambling and saying stupid, throwaway shit with maybe one or two decent points buried beneath it all. I'd wager that most of the people who were at that event forgot about that particular 'advice,' let alone rushed into Tokyo nightclubs en masse actually doing it. I'd also give the audience a bit more credit than that. These are mostly average guys, not complete social retards. I'd put it to you that anyone seeing it who thinks 'hmm this is good advice, let me try that to the letter' has deeper issues that predate their viewing Julien.

The issue is that SJWs can take that video and go 'SEE THIS WHAT THESE PUAS TEACH!!!' and then tar everyone who has even so much as written a forum post somewhere about 'game' with the same brush. There's no room for a nuanced argument, no room to mention that this is one guy being an idiot for the sake of the drama and attention, no room to mention that people don't actually do this. It's just fuel for more bog standard SJW outrage, nothing more really.

Julien's CNN interview confirms to me what I was thinking at first, that he was trolling, albeit very, very poorly. For me, the absolute most he's guilty of is being an idiot.

That he's being banned from multiple countries is down to his/RSD's failure to control the narrative from the start, something which I admittedly didn't think would be an issue at first. I totally underestimated how much of a shitstorm could be made from this video, which, in the context of societal issues generally, barely warrants a mention, let alone round the clock coverage.

At some point, much earlier in this saga, Julien should have come out and said some variation of the following:

What Julien Should Have Said Wrote:There has been a huge deal made about a recent video of me and I would like to address what is being said about it and put everything in it's proper context. The most important thing to make clear is that there a clear distinction between the following things:

1. What I teach my clients, and
2. What I did in that video

What I teach my clients is how to be more confident in themselves so they can better attract women, improve themselves, blahblahblah

What I did in that video was an off colour attempt at humour explicitly meant to provoke a response and garner a high Youtube view count. It was clearly stupid and out of line. None of the women in the club were physically assaulted, they were women with whom I had been hanging out with the entire night who I had built a comfort level with. I then thought it would be funny to mimic some degrading and abusive acts for the camera, which in hindsight was an incredibly stupid thing to do.

I do not condone those actions, nor do I teach them to my clients. Once again, this was a poor attempt at dark humour, made in poor taste. I completely accept the criticism, own up to the error in judgement and will use this episode to further my own development as a man, as I teach my clients to do.

*link to one of the hundreds of self help vids he has on youtube*

Thanks for your time

He tried to do that in the CNN video, but by then the narrative had already been established over the preceding weeks. He was clearly on the defensive, weak and looking broken even before the interview started. The fact that he made some decent points was never going to be received because the interviewer was speaking from a position of strength and used that to railroad Julien. The body language and conviction in the interviewers voice would lend anyone to think that Julien had no leg to stand on.

That could have totally been reversed had he come out early on with a statement like what I wrote, establishing the narrative himself. Instead, he allowed the story to morph into this being an example of a SEXUAL PREDATOR caught on film, and that sort of sensationalism has done him in big time.

As far as that goes, I'm still struck by how quickly and decisively a twitter mob can crush you if you don't act right. Even in this thread, people are acting as though it's an open an shut case. 'How can any of this be taken out of context! He's literally grabbing girls and thrusting their heads into his crotch, committing sexual crimes on film!'

It's completely conceivable if you're in a club environment chatting up a girl for a few hours and the conversation veers into a sexual zone, after which you can say/do some absurd things that you would cringe at if you were viewing/hearing these things on their own sober at 1:30 pm on Tuesday at work.

(11-19-2014 07:34 PM)ilovelatinas Wrote:  Pretty Funny Interview. The woman went to one of the RSD free tours and also undercover as a female target.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-navRaEV8uE

The guy "Psych" brings up a few valid points but is just another hypocritical slime ball pua coach.

Case in point. Only got 10 minutes into it and it's already absurd. The woman goes on about how the instructor is talking about the difference between an LMR 'No' and an actual 'No,' as though that concept doesn't exist. Then she talks about a sexual encounter the instructor is describing.

"He also says rub hands your leg up and down her legs. Make her push your hand away as you get closer to her vagina. Fucking ravish her, quote unquote. Pull out your cock and put her hand on it."

That's supposed to be some sort of condemnation of the guy as a predator? Any sexual encounter between relative strangers is going to look 'bad' if you were to describe it later in exquisite detail and then portray it as though it was a step by step manual to use upon meeting a girl. If she has something decent to say let me know, and I'll watch the rest, but thus far it's been standard tripe, the logical conclusion of which is her wanting men to get a release form signature before removing a bra.

When you read the I Had Sex thread or the Tinder thread, most of the shit there, standing on it's own, looks bad. Particularly some of the things that are said on Tinder. The context missing is that these are girls who have already signaled in some way that they are interested in fucking. It's pretty much on the man to take that interest and convert it into sex, the same way it has been since the beginning of time. There are a myriad of ways to do that, which is why any attempt to reduce it into bullet points on a Power Point presentation is always going to look absurd.

Ironically, what Julien is doing in those videos, while not viable as a 'method,' probably works on the right girl in the right situation. Is it what I would do? No, but I'm not going to get bent out of shape because some guy does that with some girl. In a couple months, tens of millions of women are going to moisten in movie theatres while watching the 50 Shades of Grey movie, but it will never come under real fire even though it will be more of an explicit 'abuse guide' than Julien's vid. Since the movie portrays the hot sexy alpha guy doing that stuff, it'll be ok. The average guy? Not so much.

Having said that, the context was missing from Julien's video by design, because he was trying to troll. His biggest mistake is not getting that point out front and center repeatedly, and now people are wed to the idea that he teaches sexual violence at his seminars.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-30119100

The video in that BBC article is an interview with a Tim Samuels, a journalist, who was coached by Julien for a documentary. The video is here, the Julien bit starts at 6 minutes.





That's seemingly what he actually teaches. Standard day game. No grabbing girls on the street choking them, no crotch touching. Standard day game, which nobody on this forum would find objectionable. Is it worth $3k? No, but that's beside the point. Tim Samuels, both in the documentary and in the recent BBC interview only really objects to Julien from the blue pill notion that talking to random women is 'creepy,' but begrudgingly finds value in the general philosophy.

The BBC interview is particularly telling in that knee deep into this shitstorm, Samuels is saying that the seminars are essentially men 'I dare say like you and I in their 20s 30s 40s who either wanted to up their game and get better, or lacked a bit of self confidence and wanted to break through that.'
He said that what Julien gave them was essentially American style positive psychology about being the man you can be and what not.

Again, worth $3k? Debatable. But an extreme blue pill guy who saw with his own unfiltered eyes what Julien actually teaches came out of it with a changed viewpoint, in the positive direction, and said as much in the midst of all this drama. That lends credence to the idea that his video was just a bad troll job, and the other 99.999% of his stuff is above board generally. But like I said, nobody will hear it now because it is drowned out by the OMG ABUSE angle.

MikeCF Wrote:Yeah, that was always the MSM's play.

Lots of idiots here expected people to white knight for Julien....The media would have loved that.

Right now they have to make-up a connection. If guys had fought for RSD, well, there's the connection.

A lot of guys posting here have said some stupid things with great confidence. Reality has smashed those ideas.

It might be prudent to reflect on why you posted stupid things like the "freeze out strategy" and insisting that others white knight for RSD.

The only thing that they need to establish a connection is proximity. Has nothing to do with defending RSD as opposed to staying silent. Some on here are buying into the sensationalism angle I mentioned, while others are essentially saying he's just an idiot for 'doing it wrong,' where 'it' is his game.

I can agree with that, but the problem is that SJWs don't want people 'doing it' at all. That means that the next step is going to be an attempt to put forth the idea that 'Julien is just one PUA, there are hundreds out there which means this is just the tip of the misogyny rape culture abuse iceberg.' Mentioning Roosh is an attempt to do that.

The difference is that Roosh (or Krauser, Heartiste or any of those guys) don't have clips of them doing anything which could be taken out of context in an absurd way. The very most they can do is take abstract written concepts and moan about them, which will never garner the same level of outrage because there aren't any visuals. On top of that, they don't rely on conventional social infrastructure, like RSD does.

That doesn't mean it's not a problem, because if they can get Julien banned from the UK for nothing, they can ban men from talking to women in public in general, and institute whatever 1984 style regulations on sexual interactions that they wish.

Good analysis but you neglected to mention his twitter feed which by far had the most disturbing contents and could be easily interpreted as intending to incite violence. Really there was nothing funny about them at all and by virtue of the fact that they are tweets they have no back story, just a sociopath talking out loud about is crazy making thoughts.

Nevertheless I too am offended that the campaign is now being widened to suggest all men are deviants.

Still I have no sympathy for Julien or RSD. I hope they go down in a blaze of glory ! At point Tyler will have to come out of hiding and make a statement. Otherwise I consider them finished.

(11-20-2014 12:01 PM)Dismal Operator Wrote:  Some on here are buying into the sensationalism angle I mentioned, while others are essentially saying he's just an idiot for 'doing it wrong,' where 'it' is his game.

I can agree with that, but the problem is that SJWs don't want people 'doing it' at all. That means that the next step is going to be an attempt to put forth the idea that 'Julien is just one PUA, there are hundreds out there which means this is just the tip of the misogyny rape culture abuse iceberg.' Mentioning Roosh is an attempt to do that.

The difference is that Roosh (or Krauser, Heartiste or any of those guys) don't have clips of them doing anything which could be taken out of context in an absurd way. The very most they can do is take abstract written concepts and moan about them, which will never garner the same level of outrage because there aren't any visuals. On top of that, they don't rely on conventional social infrastructure, like RSD does.

That doesn't mean it's not a problem, because if they can get Julien banned from the UK for nothing, they can ban men from talking to women in public in general, and institute whatever 1984 style regulations on sexual interactions that they wish.

+1000

The anger some very logical posters displayed here against RSD was surprising to me when the context situation is much more important.
I also didn't know you could whiteknight another dude. New concept.

PS: Le Samurai is probably my favorite movie.

Who knew there were this many RSD lurkers? My perception of Game has changed.

Several people here will, in hindsight, have to acknowledge that they over-reacted. A lot of statements above are hyperbole. In particular, the angst is unwarranted and misplaced. In other posts, clear and repressed resentment (perhaps driven by jealousy?) is finally expressed because the 'enemy' is troubled.
Upfront I say I'm not an RSD supporter and neither do I know a lot about them, except what I read in 'the game'. I think men have a choice of ideologies. I'm in favour of self-improvement, hence I follow this forum. Others are attracted by the RSD-style 'performance' game inspired by mystery. There's also mainstream dating advice available on many sites.
Ultimately if one company shuts its doors or are hounded out of trade, there will still be thousands of men looking for this knowledge.

(11-20-2014 01:07 PM)Rutting Elephant Wrote:  Who knew there were this many RSD lurkers? My perception of Game has changed.

They were hugely influential for a long time, and a lot of guys got their start there.

(11-22-2014 10:36 PM)DarkTriad Wrote:  

(11-20-2014 01:07 PM)Rutting Elephant Wrote:  Who knew there were this many RSD lurkers? My perception of Game has changed.

They were hugely influential for a long time, and a lot of guys got their start there.

Right. I find I still have lingering feelings toward the people that helped me get where I am now. We like to trash on Neil Strausses "The Game" and everyone in it but how many people wouldn't have found this forum or all the improvements that come with studying game without reading that book?

Hating on early PUA tactics is a bit like hating on early medical science, yes it's grisly and barbaric, but it got us to the level of progress we're at now. I'm sure we'll look back on manosphere teaching a couple decades from now and go "wow, we know so much more now." It's the nature of progress.