The US has no money to conduct a war and a war that wont be won easily. So what $$ amount are we looking at here long term? There is a lot of push from Western oil companies, banksters and military suppliers on this so I expect whatever bill is given to Uncle Sam it could be a trillion or more?

Add that to the already gargantuan debt the US has and all of it isn't taking into account the end result of turning yet another country into a sock puppet.

If they go the merc route it will fail badly. Syria before the war was peaceful and then it all went to shit. Venezuela is already in deep shit and the last thing you'd want is a three-way fight for the country.

The ultra violence already prevalent there is out in the open so I dont know what a conflict would add except rocket fuel.

(04-02-2019 11:03 PM)911 Wrote:  This reminds me of the NYT editorial cartoon where they implied that the average American soldier wants to enlist to fight in the middle east, not to protect their borders. One of the more blatant (yet painfully common) projections of neocon dogma in the MSM...

(04-02-2019 09:21 PM)Kid Twist Wrote:  

(04-02-2019 11:20 AM)infowarrior1 Wrote:  ...
Especially true of the Byzantine Empire. After its sack by the 4th Crusade. Never recovered ever again.

Just to be factual it was the longest running empire by centuries (300-1453) in the modern era, and nothing is close. Yet most people don't know nearly a single thing about it.

The Celestial Empire of China run nearly twice as long, some might say it's still going strong today, with that country on the brink of becoming the world's greatest power... They've invested $6 trillion into building and securing their economic and commercial infrastructure, while the US has squandered that same gigantic amount into (((mideastern wars))) with nothing to show for but colossal debt.

The Chinese were fortunate to have had some of their own being recruited into the court of Genghis Khan

Because he considered slaughtering everyone in China and turn the cities into pasture for his people's herds.

The advisor of course appealed to his self-interest. For if the bees are all dead there would be no honey to extract.

The people were spared so they can be taxed.

(04-01-2019 02:30 PM)911 Wrote:  Maduro did get 31.7% of total registered voters, that's about half the electorate in an election with 65% participation rate, so I figured his hardcore base is about half those voters, or about a quarter of the population. As well if there is outside/yanqui intervention, it's going to stoke a nationalistic response.

I do have woke Venezuelan friends over here, and yeah the ratio is about 5 to 1 anti-Chavez, I know it's not a black and white situation Mek. My closest buddy is a hardcore anti-Chavista, looks like a full-bloodied Castillian visigoth.

He told me a funny story, he run his large family farm near Maracaibo, one day he was doing a lot of field work and looking very scruffy. He had to meet a client far away and was running late, didn't have time to tell his driver where his client was, so he grabs his gun and takes the wheel, with his driver by his side and his bodyguard in the backseat (usually he sits in the back). His bodyguard was a cleancut fussy muchacho. So they get stopped by a pack of heavily armed roadside thugs at a traffic light, they scan the car and kidnap his bodyguard right away .

Turns out the kidnappers were connected with local police, he gathered that much from going to the nearby station where he overheard the local cop let it slip that they knew of a kidnapping in progress today of a bigshot farm owner before that info could get to them, then they realized that the kidnap target was sitting in their office... That was the time he knew he had to get out of town. He ued to run a large farm with a few hundred cattle heads and was always trying to fend off hungry bandito rustlers. The farm is now closed. That lack of stability is one of the reasons the country hasn't had the necessary agricultural output in recent years.

And you belive those numbers 911? Here in Argieland we had the kirchners "colonized" the National Center of Census and Estadistics during their administration to show whatever number they wanted to show. It was a national embarrasment.

My contact with the Venezuelan expat comunity here are numerous, from all over the social spectrum, and all can tell fricking horros stories bad as your friend, and worse. I still wonder that neither Colombia and/or Brasil are training expats units, you have way more candidates than the Cubans in the 50´s by the level of hatred the expats show.

Dont get me wrong, i am not a NeoCon, nor want USA interventions in the continent (nor interventions from other continents like Putin and the ChinCom), but the situation in Venezuela is affecting all the continent now, and i think its time for the continent to deal with those situation, no matter how much the lefties (or crackpots) try to defend the regime.

@Lubianka: I am still waiting for your answer in the Brasil thread, or are you too busy blaming the USA EMP weapons for all the Venezuelan regime´s problems?

The situation has now massively changed, even though most in the media seem not to have noticed.

What happened is, the USA have slapped heavy sanctions on the boats and companies that carry Venezuela's oil to Cuba.

For Cuba it is a terrifying blow, as the island needs the oil for its cars and trucks, and for re-selling it on the global market.

The US had been reluctant to move in this direction for reasons that I have discussed earlier on this thread (mainly, fear of Cuban "refugees"), but now it is apparently a done deal: the petrol will stop flowing towards Cuba.

It shows by the way that I was quite right in (modestly) "advising" on this thread our islander friends to "terminate" Maduro and deal with J. Guaido (or another man if the right decision had been taken months earlier, before Guaido's rise) instead. Now, Cuba is stuck with radioactive-asset Maduro and the oil will stop flowing.

So, well, what it means is: first, the US are using the death-by-multiple-cuts against Maduro. Secondly, Cuba will have to drop Maduro and strike a discreet deal with J. Guaido and the US. A deal that would maintain some, enough, oil shipments to Cuba, with Guaido accepting to honor some of the current contracts.

In exchange, Cuba will quite possibly have to recall or rein-in their (allegedly) 22.000 soldiers or intel officers currently propping up Maduro. Matter of fact, Maduro has already guessed that, and therefore has replaced his Cuban bodyguards by Russian bodyguards, but, it will probably not suffice.

And so, one could guess that soon the Cuban soldiers and officers will sort-of stand down or just stop being efficient in Venezuela, and therefore Maduro and his 1500 Russian helpers in Venezuela could find themselves isolated and extremely vulnerable.

If I was the president I would be telling Brazil and Colombia to starve out the venezuelan military then go in there and split the country down the middle amongst themselves with weapons we sell them. Absolutely no need for a single us soldier on the ground.

Colombia should declare their own version of a national emergency and take San Cristobal. They'd have an easy sell to their citizens the narrative being restoring the Colombia of the 1890s when Colombia included Venezuela Panama and Ecuador. Another 6 months of the soldiers eating garbage and there will be no resistance. Merida after that.

All the countries down south have already said they've got no interest in war with Venezuela, though.

(04-08-2019 09:22 PM)SamuelBRoberts Wrote:  All the countries down south have already said they've got no interest in war with Venezuela, though.

Nah. The translation is; "We want the US to do it for us because fuck that shit!"

Those guys couldn't launch an invasion of a fevela without a massacre of innocents and some believe they're capable of launching a coalition campaign into their neighbour? The only morons who do that shit these days are gringos and we have decades of experience to back it up.

^^ Apples and oranges man, this is like saying the US can't invade Iraq or Syria because Chicago and Detroit are violent shitholes. The favela situation is due to endemic problems and political unwill from state governors to squeeze the criminal scum

Don't believe me? Look up the Haiti mission, we dealt with their thugs and left that miserable country a little better than it was before, starving commie soldiers won't be really much different

The reason Brazil and the rest of South America hesitates to invade Venezuela is not due to strength.
Brazil's main weak point is the air force, which we could easily compensate with a little Yankee hand, and then there is the Russia's and China's meddling, but I doubt they have the will and capability to project so much force so far alway from home
Anything just give them Syria, Ukraine and/or North Korea to shut their mouths

Reality is: We just don't like war, never had a real one in a long time; and most importantly, there is little to gain from so much money burnt, our crooked media is trying to destabilize Bolsonaro's government and our economy is not that good yet

The upside would be some oil and a controversial political victory? Yeah, fuck that shit, I agree
But Venezuela only tends to get worse, we and Colombia already had skirmishes involving refugee protesters and Chavista soldiers at our borders, more events like this and Maduro bullshitery could force our hand

(04-11-2019 04:48 PM)TutorGuina Wrote:  ^^ Apples and oranges man, this is like saying the US can't invade Iraq or Syria because Chicago and Detroit are violent shitholes. The favela situation is due to endemic problems and political unwill from state governors to squeeze the criminal scum

Don't believe me? Look up the Haiti mission, we dealt with their thugs and left that miserable country a little better than it was before, starving commie soldiers won't be really much different

The reason Brazil and the rest of South America hesitates to invade Venezuela is not due to strength.
Brazil's main weak point is the air force, which we could easily compensate with a little Yankee hand, and then there is the Russia's and China's meddling, but I doubt they have the will and capability to project so much force so far alway from home
Anything just give them Syria, Ukraine and/or North Korea to shut their mouths

Reality is: We just don't like war, never had a real one in a long time; and most importantly, there is little to gain from so much money burnt, our crooked media is trying to destabilize Bolsonaro's government and our economy is not that good yet

The upside would be some oil and a controversial political victory? Yeah, fuck that shit, I agree
But Venezuela only tends to get worse, we and Colombia already had skirmishes involving refugee protesters and Chavista soldiers at our borders, more events like this and Maduro bullshitery could force our hand

Also you haven't had a big role where Brasil carried the fight since yall fucked Paraguay's shit up back in the Empire days. The only thing that sated yall's blood lust was Rutherford B. Hayes of all people.

(04-11-2019 04:48 PM)TutorGuina Wrote:  ^^ Apples and oranges man, this is like saying the US can't invade Iraq or Syria because Chicago and Detroit are violent shitholes. The favela situation is due to endemic problems and political unwill from state governors to squeeze the criminal scum

Don't believe me? Look up the Haiti mission, we dealt with their thugs and left that miserable country a little better than it was before, starving commie soldiers won't be really much different

The reason Brazil and the rest of South America hesitates to invade Venezuela is not due to strength.
Brazil's main weak point is the air force, which we could easily compensate with a little Yankee hand, and then there is the Russia's and China's meddling, but I doubt they have the will and capability to project so much force so far alway from home
Anything just give them Syria, Ukraine and/or North Korea to shut their mouths

Reality is: We just don't like war, never had a real one in a long time; and most importantly, there is little to gain from so much money burnt, our crooked media is trying to destabilize Bolsonaro's government and our economy is not that good yet

The upside would be some oil and a controversial political victory? Yeah, fuck that shit, I agree
But Venezuela only tends to get worse, we and Colombia already had skirmishes involving refugee protesters and Chavista soldiers at our borders, more events like this and Maduro bullshitery could force our hand

The US relying on Brazil and Colombia is laughable. I'm not doubting your ability to fight as soldiers but demanding two SA countries to team up with gringo town and bomb another SA country is asking for trouble.

The worst cities in the US dont compare to those ultra violent places in SA and last time I checked the US military hasn't gone in guns blazing to those cities because the gangs are tooled up and shooting anybody resembling a cop.

Can you point out a coalition of South American countries which invaded and held territory in a neighbour where they suffered losses and only left once rebuilding efforts were complete? You guys dont think like gringos so please enlighten me.

Look at the mess NATO is in and they have more in common with the US than you guys ever had and ever will. Afghanistan, Iraq? Libya? Syria? Do you want that risk where you go in as peacekeepers and aid givers but some groups dont see it that way?

That place is guaranteed to be worse than Syria.

(04-12-2019 06:42 AM)Foolsgo1d Wrote:  The US relying on Brazil and Colombia is laughable. I'm not doubting your ability to fight as soldiers but demanding two SA countries to team up with gringo town and bomb another SA country is asking for trouble.

It's not a common situation but Maduro is forcing our hand, that's the point. Colombia and Brazil already got skin in the game with all the venezuelan refugees and shit going on at the border
Trump and Bolsonaro got good rapport going on, it's possible

(04-12-2019 06:42 AM)Foolsgo1d Wrote:  The worst cities in the US dont compare to those ultra violent places in SA and last time I checked the US military hasn't gone in guns blazing to those cities because the gangs are tooled up and shooting anybody resembling a cop.

If you wanted to do it, you could
Every decade or so our armed forces kick the shit out of the drug cartels, but as soon as they leave the place the thugs come back
Army generals just don't like using their resources to play whack-a-mole with low tier scum, that's it. Blame police and governors

(04-12-2019 06:42 AM)Foolsgo1d Wrote:  Look at the mess NATO is in and they have more in common with the US than you guys ever had and ever will. Afghanistan, Iraq? Libya? Syria? Do you want that risk where you go in as peacekeepers and aid givers but some groups dont see it that way?

That place is guaranteed to be worse than Syria.

I don't think anyone has the minimal obligation to invade that place, if you are american and don't want an intervention, by all means pressure your government to stay out. That also goes for all members of NATO. NeoCon warmongering is bad, I'm with you on that

Let's be honest, though, Venezuela is only going to get worse. That moustache asshole seems willing to take his commie administration doctrine to the bitter end
Sooner or later that shit will have to be solved, either diplomatically or.. you know

South America is riddled with narco-gangs that operate as paramilitary organisations, and that's during peace time.

Fat, comfortable Americans don't have the slightest clue why their invasions into third world shitholes always end up a total clusterfuck.

They think "if I would rather sit on my ass and eat Cheetos than fight a war then surely dirt people will also sit on their ass and eat Cheetos rather than fight a war."

How about some foreigner drops a 250 pound bomb on your Dad for having the audacity to stand within a hundred yards of a military checkpoint?

Would you put your fucking Cheetos down for that?

(04-12-2019 10:44 AM)TutorGuina Wrote:  

(04-12-2019 06:42 AM)Foolsgo1d Wrote:  The US relying on Brazil and Colombia is laughable. I'm not doubting your ability to fight as soldiers but demanding two SA countries to team up with gringo town and bomb another SA country is asking for trouble.

It's not a common situation but Maduro is forcing our hand, that's the point. Colombia and Brazil already got skin in the game with all the venezuelan refugees and shit going on at the border
Trump and Bolsonaro got good rapport going on, it's possible

(04-12-2019 06:42 AM)Foolsgo1d Wrote:  The worst cities in the US dont compare to those ultra violent places in SA and last time I checked the US military hasn't gone in guns blazing to those cities because the gangs are tooled up and shooting anybody resembling a cop.

If you wanted to do it, you could
Every decade or so our armed forces kick the shit out of the drug cartels, but as soon as they leave the place the thugs come back
Army generals just don't like using their resources to play whack-a-mole with low tier scum, that's it. Blame police and governors

(04-12-2019 06:42 AM)Foolsgo1d Wrote:  Look at the mess NATO is in and they have more in common with the US than you guys ever had and ever will. Afghanistan, Iraq? Libya? Syria? Do you want that risk where you go in as peacekeepers and aid givers but some groups dont see it that way?

That place is guaranteed to be worse than Syria.

I don't think anyone has the minimal obligation to invade that place, if you are american and don't want an intervention, by all means pressure your government to stay out. That also goes for all members of NATO. NeoCon warmongering is bad, I'm with you on that

Let's be honest, though, Venezuela is only going to get worse. That moustache asshole seems willing to take his commie administration doctrine to the bitter end
Sooner or later that shit will have to be solved, either diplomatically or.. you know

Prior to Iraq 2.0 there were many against it in Europe and we still went along with it. The evidence was cooked and dissenters were silenced. A man called Dr Kelly was suicided because he was a very professional, articulate and intelligent man and he was a major problem.

To this day his death remains a suicide like many before and after him when they chose to stand in front of the war machine.

The cartels are not like a country but they serve a purpose. If there are likeminded men after money and power then they will band together to fight for that power. To stop the cartels is to merely kill the men and women of those groups but it wont stop the cause of them.

Colombians and Brazilians should not go in with the US on this otherwise it will end up as a disaster for them.

Let the yanks make another fuck up on their own.

(04-12-2019 10:49 AM)Leonard D Neubache Wrote:  South America is riddled with narco-gangs that operate as paramilitary organisations, and that's during peace time.

Fat, comfortable Americans don't have the slightest clue why their invasions into third world shitholes always end up a total clusterfuck.

They think "if I would rather sit on my ass and eat Cheetos than fight a war then surely dirt people will also sit on their ass and eat Cheetos rather than fight a war."

How about some foreigner drops a 250 pound bomb on your Dad for having the audacity to stand within a hundred yards of a military checkpoint?

Would you put your fucking Cheetos down for that?

Its more accurate to see South America to be in the midst of a low-level insurgency or civil war.

Most of the "Murders" are deaths as a result of the war between those various groups.

Its only a redefinition of the real thing.

A sign that the states aren't truly in control or truly have secured their rule. Because a state is by definition a monopoly of violence..

Enjoying the thread, just out of curosity has anyone posting here been to Venezeula in the past 5 years? I am not one to pretend to have any of the answer's on how to resolve this matter it's a royal mess. However, being there on the ground and interacting in the daily life you get another perspective most dont, can't but hope this shit gets resolved soon.

Breaking News, Leopoldo "the White Mandela" Lopez has just been freed. Coup (or popular liberation) underway.



About Leopoldo Lopez: https://www.rooshvforum.com/thread-55800...pid1402106

The martyr, freed at last:


https://www.infobae.com/america/venezuel...ilizarnos/

Oppositionist Guaido has rallied the people for a military upsrising through a video where he can be seen surrounded by armed soldiers
Reports of social media blackout, tear gas and negotiations for Maduro's escape

Live of the protest, I already heard gunshots




Guaido's video for the Venezuelan people




It's happening guys, buckle up

https://twitter.com/radiobandnewsfm/stat...3430500352
military vs military

https://twitter.com/VP/status/1123222613273321472
They already have a name for the operation, everything points out it was a throughout planned with Venezuelan opposition, USA and Brazil




Another feed, seems to be working better than RT and the Sun

(04-30-2019 08:47 AM)TutorGuina Wrote:  Oppositionist Guaido has rallied the people for a military upsrising through a video where he can be seen surrounded by armed soldiers
Reports of social media blackout, tear gas and negotiations for Maduro's escape

...
It's happening guys, buckle up
...

This kind of reminds me of the rumors of imminent regime change in Iran a couple of years ago. It looks like an ongoing coup attempt with a small group of loyal troops, which will probably be snuffed in a day or two.

This coup has little chance of succeeding unless support for Maduro craters from inside, which at this point looks pretty unlikely in the short term. Question is whether they will just arrest Guaido and this group, will they go quietly, or will there be more generalized bloodshed and urban clashes around Caracas.

(04-30-2019 09:23 AM)911 Wrote:  

(04-30-2019 08:47 AM)TutorGuina Wrote:  Oppositionist Guaido has rallied the people for a military upsrising through a video where he can be seen surrounded by armed soldiers
Reports of social media blackout, tear gas and negotiations for Maduro's escape

...
It's happening guys, buckle up
...

This kind of reminds me of the rumors of imminent regime change in Iran a couple of years ago. It looks like an ongoing coup attempt with a small group of loyal troops, which will probably be snuffed in a day or two.

This coup has little chance of succeeding unless support for Maduro craters from inside, which at this point looks pretty unlikely in the short term. Question is whether they will just arrest Guaido and this group, will they go quietly, or will there be more generalized bloodshed and urban clashes around Caracas.

President Trump is just desperate to get oil to save the petro dollar.

Some coments from the ground i got today: Fecal matter is impacting the electric device with blades that turn quickly. Lots of military units are in revolt, or individual soldiers or small soldiers are joining the revolting forces. Also common people are starting to riot, not with stones or improvised shields, but with small guns and petrol bombs. There are already reports of dead among the "colectivos" that support the regime.

(04-30-2019 08:47 AM)TutorGuina Wrote:  https://twitter.com/radiobandnewsfm/stat...3430500352
military vs military

Is this "it"? Is it happening? I was expecting an invasion. Eh, guess we need to save the troops for Iran. Good luck Venezuela I'm sure the guy we picked for you will be great, we're really good at this picking leaders thing.

(04-30-2019 09:23 AM)911 Wrote:  

(04-30-2019 08:47 AM)TutorGuina Wrote:  Oppositionist Guaido has rallied the people for a military upsrising through a video where he can be seen surrounded by armed soldiers
Reports of social media blackout, tear gas and negotiations for Maduro's escape

...
It's happening guys, buckle up
...

This kind of reminds me of the rumors of imminent regime change in Iran a couple of years ago. It looks like an ongoing coup attempt with a small group of loyal troops, which will probably be snuffed in a day or two.

This coup has little chance of succeeding unless support for Maduro craters from inside, which at this point looks pretty unlikely in the short term. Question is whether they will just arrest Guaido and this group, will they go quietly, or will there be more generalized bloodshed and urban clashes around Caracas.

Things have changed now that Russia is working with Maduro.

The Russians have sniffed out the Soros/CIA playbook and are prepared. Shutting down social media is the first necessary move.

I had a video once of Lavrov discussing how color revolutions work with some other official. Very interesting. Russia is ahead of this and probably briefed Maduro on how to proceed.

It seems that the US cannot organize a sucessful coup anymore.