911, do you really know about Venezuela? 1/4 chavistas? Right now is 1/6 at best, mostly the colectivos and the small time gangs working for the regime, plus the tipical diehard lefties that pox the region. Of the army, with any luck 1/4 would fight for the regime in case of invasion. Stop drinking the rt/telesur koolaid, and talk with the venezuelans outside and inside the country.

Maduro did get 31.7% of total registered voters, that's about half the electorate in an election with 65% participation rate, so I figured his hardcore base is about half those voters, or about a quarter of the population. As well if there is outside/yanqui intervention, it's going to stoke a nationalistic response.

I do have woke Venezuelan friends over here, and yeah the ratio is about 5 to 1 anti-Chavez, I know it's not a black and white situation Mek. My closest buddy is a hardcore anti-Chavista, looks like a full-bloodied Castillian visigoth.

He told me a funny story, he run his large family farm near Maracaibo, one day he was doing a lot of field work and looking very scruffy. He had to meet a client far away and was running late, didn't have time to tell his driver where his client was, so he grabs his gun and takes the wheel, with his driver by his side and his bodyguard in the backseat (usually he sits in the back). His bodyguard was a cleancut fussy muchacho. So they get stopped by a pack of heavily armed roadside thugs at a traffic light, they scan the car and kidnap his bodyguard right away .

Turns out the kidnappers were connected with local police, he gathered that much from going to the nearby station where he overheard the local cop let it slip that they knew of a kidnapping in progress today of a bigshot farm owner before that info could get to them, then they realized that the kidnap target was sitting in their office... That was the time he knew he had to get out of town. He ued to run a large farm with a few hundred cattle heads and was always trying to fend off hungry bandito rustlers. The farm is now closed. That lack of stability is one of the reasons the country hasn't had the necessary agricultural output in recent years.

Hahaha, holy shit.

Don't worry, though. We just need to launch 20 "guided missiles" into the country and all those problems will go away!

(04-01-2019 04:14 PM)SamuelBRoberts Wrote:  Hahaha, holy shit.

Don't worry, though. We just need to launch 20 "guided missiles" into the country and all those problems will go away!

They would, though, wouldn't they? Didn't it work just fine in a not-so-distant past? Didn't it work just fine in Syria for example, where ISIS has just been bombed (bombs, missiles, whatever works) to oblivion?

People who say "Oh but killing Maduro wouldn't help", well, I would like them to explain to us how exactly it would NOT solve the problem. I mean, if a dude X fucks with half of the world, and a missile turns X into steaming water, then the problem is solved, right? Mathematically the problem is absolutely solved, as X has left the equation.

Also, what are missiles (and yes, they are by definition guided one way or another) made for, if not for turning your enemies to air and water? Are missiles made strictly to increase the profit of the weapons industry? Surely, they have to be used sometimes, haven't they?

Anyway, I have just seen a funny live video of Diego Maradona dedicating a minor-league win to Maduro: Diego was so high and full of coke , he collapsed on a chair, helped by an assistant, then stumbled and mumbled incoherent compliments to Maduro and against interventionism... Makes me think, Maradona (horny dude, and father of ten illegitimate kids) might be an active poster on this very thread?

PS: J. Guaido has just been stripped of his parliamentary immunity. If Maduro detains him, all poker cards will have to be laid on the table...

My impression of Maduro is that he's just the guy currently on top of their pyramid, as opposed to the ideological, generational leader that Chavez was, so if the US "surgically" took him out, that would turn him into a martyr, it would galvanize the Chavestistas, and the next guy down the ladder would replace him? It's not like they will run out of bus drivers there.

(04-01-2019 06:34 PM)911 Wrote:  My impression of Maduro is that he's just the guy currently on top of their pyramid, as opposed to the ideological, generational leader that Chavez was, so if the US "surgically" took him out, that would turn him into a martyr, it would galvanize the Chavistas, and the next guy down the ladder would replace him? It's not like they will run out of bus drivers there.

Except it's South America. So, the next guy down the ladder would hurriedly pack a bag of cash and gold, and flee to Dominicana, or Uruguay or Barbados or South Africa or Sweden.

Mind you, no Chavista will be allowed to flee to the sunny island facing Florida. Allende tried that, he was promptly shot by his minders. The sunny island doesn't give refuge to cowards or bad assets, well... unless they are female and have elephantiasis.

Regardless of what the claimed intentions are, intervention will do nothing but bleed America at home and on the world stage.

Even the low-info set don't assume good-will anymore and anyone paying attention just sees Israel's golem stomping around as usual.

Try to imagine what kind of credibility loss Uncle Sam has to have suffered for people who don't like muslims to hope that America loses in Syria and for people who don't like communists to hope that America loses in Venezuela.

What's even more ridiculous about US intervention there is that the very (((people))) pushing it will also use it on the other side of the fence to whip up anti-gringo (aka anti-white) sentiment.

White folk have got to stop being played for such chumps.

(04-01-2019 06:15 PM)Going strong Wrote:  They would, though, wouldn't they? Didn't it work just fine in a not-so-distant past? Didn't it work just fine in Syria for example, where ISIS has just been bombed (bombs, missiles, whatever works) to oblivion?

No, that's not what happened in Syria at all.
Like, that's not even close to what happened in Syria.
Honestly if you think that Syria was an example of an enemy being pummeled into submission by air strikes, and not, say, protracted infantry combat, then you should really stop talking about foreign politics at all until you've gotten more up to date.

Has ISIS actually been defeated? I remember the early celebrations of how we beat the Taliban and they seem to be back in Afghanistan.

(04-01-2019 07:30 PM)SamuelBRoberts Wrote:  

(04-01-2019 06:15 PM)Going strong Wrote:  They would, though, wouldn't they? Didn't it work just fine in a not-so-distant past? Didn't it work just fine in Syria for example, where ISIS has just been bombed (bombs, missiles, whatever works) to oblivion?

No, that's not what happened in Syria at all.
Like, that's not even close to what happened in Syria.
Honestly if you think that Syria was an example of an enemy being pummeled into submission by air strikes, and not, say, protracted infantry combat, then you should really stop talking about foreign politics at all until you've gotten more up to date.

I am pretty sure that ISIS has been defeated by a combination of both, air strikes, and protracted infantry combat. Though I am no specialist of the Syrian subject, I have read and heard that without airstrikes, ISIS would not have been defeated.

In any case, if you want to compare ISIS fanatical fighters and South American "fighters" (lol, Bolivar is long dead and so is San Martin), well no offense but, "you should really stop talking about (South American) politics until you've gotten more up to date".

Once again: there is no such thing as Latin American "soldiers" who would fight to death with fanaticism and efficiency. No offense here to our Latino friends, they do have many qualities, but being organized and ferocious soldiers is not their forte!

All of this reminds me of all the talks about Iraki soldiers "determined to fight to death", Irak being "the 5th army of the world" . Then a bunch of valiant French soldiers (from Daguet division) enter Irak and half a million of Iraki soldiers flee before them, so fast that the brave US soldiers hardly had time to intervene. It'd be same-same here, in all likelihood.

ISIS has been defeated by the CIA no longer funding them and America no longer protecting their air space.

Nobody found it odd that it was announced quietly and the Whitehouse wasn't doing victory laps for a month?

This is a war crime against Venezuelan people excuted by the USA.
The electric grid has been attacked by electromagnetic pulses weapons. Russian technicians and military personnel have inspected Venezuelan facilities and have confirmed the attack.
Shame on you, America, shame on you!

(04-01-2019 08:17 PM)Going strong Wrote:  I am pretty sure that ISIS has been defeated by a combination of both, air strikes, and protracted infantry combat. Though I am no specialist of the Syrian subject, I have read and heard that without airstrikes, ISIS would not have been defeated.

So um, who's gonna be doing the protracted infantry combat in Venezuela?

(04-01-2019 07:30 PM)SamuelBRoberts Wrote:  

(04-01-2019 06:15 PM)Going strong Wrote:  They would, though, wouldn't they? Didn't it work just fine in a not-so-distant past? Didn't it work just fine in Syria for example, where ISIS has just been bombed (bombs, missiles, whatever works) to oblivion?

No, that's not what happened in Syria at all.
Like, that's not even close to what happened in Syria.
Honestly if you think that Syria was an example of an enemy being pummeled into submission by air strikes, and not, say, protracted infantry combat, then you should really stop talking about foreign politics at all until you've gotten more up to date.

The Russians fatally weakened ISIS. Through destruction of the supply lines to Turkey like bombing the oil tankers going into Turkey destroying ISIS oil fields that existed in ISIS territory as well as destroying its Logistics, Money and other fundamental aspects that ensured ISIS functionality.

America seemed to avoid those crucial targets.

See if you can spot the part the coincides with why Venezuala suddenly needs to be overthrown.

https://youtu.be/ohrkhZnG4Ww

(04-01-2019 05:16 AM)Handsome Creepy Eel Wrote:  

(03-30-2019 10:47 PM)infowarrior1 Wrote:  Russia had to contend with the mongols too:




Mongols entrenched serfdom and which would ultimately end in Europe but not in Russia until more modern times.

And the genocide of the majority of the population didn't help either.

Look, at some point there has a to be a limit how far into the past you can lay blame for current circumstances. Communism I can understand, that was very recent, but Mongols - that happened almost 1000 years ago. If you can't recover from a disaster in 1000 years, what does it say about you? It's like Arabs claiming they would have ruled the world if those bad bad Mongols hadn't sacked Baghdad in 1258, or Mexicans claiming that they had an awesome thing going on until the arrival of Conquistadors. What would we tell to an Italian claiming that Italy would have become an awesome world power if it weren't for that pesky fall of Western Roman Empire?

This sort of complaining just makes a nation look sad and embarrassing.

Especially true of the Byzantine Empire. After its sack by the 4th Crusade. Never recovered ever again.

(04-01-2019 11:16 PM)SamuelBRoberts Wrote:  

(04-01-2019 08:17 PM)Going strong Wrote:  I am pretty sure that ISIS has been defeated by a combination of both, air strikes, and protracted infantry combat. Though I am no specialist of the Syrian subject, I have read and heard that without airstrikes, ISIS would not have been defeated.

So um, who's gonna be doing the protracted infantry combat in Venezuela?

If John Rambo is unavailable, then nobody. Hence the missile through Nicolas' palatial window.

Some pictures of the Chinese in Venezuela now.

So thats Chi Coms and Russians protecting their interests now. Obviously those low numbers are not to stop an invasion but they will be better protection for the important people of Maduros government.

It looks like they are not interested in stepping off again just because the US says "you're a bad man"

https://www.almasdarnews.com/article/chi...n-miltary/

The US burned its international goodwill in Iraq/Libya/Syria, it's hard to invoke the Monroe Doctrine on one hand, when it's been violated it with all those interventions. The idea behind the Monroe Doctrine was that old world powers would leave the US alone in the western hemisphere as long as the US stayed out of the old world.

(04-02-2019 11:39 AM)Going strong Wrote:  

(04-01-2019 11:16 PM)SamuelBRoberts Wrote:  

(04-01-2019 08:17 PM)Going strong Wrote:  I am pretty sure that ISIS has been defeated by a combination of both, air strikes, and protracted infantry combat. Though I am no specialist of the Syrian subject, I have read and heard that without airstrikes, ISIS would not have been defeated.

So um, who's gonna be doing the protracted infantry combat in Venezuela?

If John Rambo is unavailable, then nobody. Hence the missile through Nicolas' palatial window.

Reportedly, Abrams and co are putting together a group of mercenaries from El Salvador, Honduras and Nicaragua to roll south. A bit like the Syria gameplan, where the US/NATO put together a jihadi force to invade that country as early as 2010. Not sure how effective this will be in Venezuela...

China and Russia continue supporting Venezuela in its preparations for an American-Brazilian-Colombian invasion. Chinese army arrives in Venezuela just days after the Russian miltary.
A group of Chinese soldiers arrived in Venezuela on Sunday as part of a cooperation program between Beijing and Caracas.
According to reports, more than 120 soldiers from the Chinese People’s Liberation Army arrived at Venezuela’s Margarita Island to deliver humanitarian aid and military supplies to the government forces.

(04-02-2019 11:20 AM)infowarrior1 Wrote:  

(04-01-2019 05:16 AM)Handsome Creepy Eel Wrote:  

(03-30-2019 10:47 PM)infowarrior1 Wrote:  Russia had to contend with the mongols too:




Mongols entrenched serfdom and which would ultimately end in Europe but not in Russia until more modern times.

And the genocide of the majority of the population didn't help either.

Look, at some point there has a to be a limit how far into the past you can lay blame for current circumstances. Communism I can understand, that was very recent, but Mongols - that happened almost 1000 years ago. If you can't recover from a disaster in 1000 years, what does it say about you? It's like Arabs claiming they would have ruled the world if those bad bad Mongols hadn't sacked Baghdad in 1258, or Mexicans claiming that they had an awesome thing going on until the arrival of Conquistadors. What would we tell to an Italian claiming that Italy would have become an awesome world power if it weren't for that pesky fall of Western Roman Empire?

This sort of complaining just makes a nation look sad and embarrassing.

Especially true of the Byzantine Empire. After its sack by the 4th Crusade. Never recovered ever again.

Just to be factual it was the longest running empire by centuries (300-1453) in the modern era, and nothing is close. Yet most people don't know nearly a single thing about it.

(04-02-2019 05:37 PM)911 Wrote:  Reportedly, Abrams and co are putting together a group of mercenaries from El Salvador, Honduras and Nicaragua to roll south. ...... Not sure how effective this will be in Venezuela...

Mercenaries from El Salvador, Honduras and Nicaragua could not even overthrow Costa Rican or Monegasque armies (which are non-existent). That would be a new Bay of Pigs sure-disaster!


^Mercenaries from Honduras, El Salvador and Nicaragua: sad!

In any case, I don't understand what the Chinese or Russian soldiers are doing there, in Venezuela: they are just giving President Trump powerful and blatant arguments for intervening. I mean, all Trump now has to do is, send missiles onto the presidential palace (and a few military bases) of Maduro, and say he had to stop Chinese and Russian "invasion", and that's it, MSM won't even be able to protest.

I mean, President Trump could now easily obtain a prestigious and easy "victory" over the Russian Federation and Chinese State, which seem oblivious of the risk. Weird situation. Unless the RF and Chinese State have information pointing to a total incapacity of the USA to start a new war, which would change the whole World order. Or maybe the Russians and Chinese are trying to bait Trump into intervening, both hoping it'll be a new Vietnam war (which it won't, Venezuelan soldiers will not fight more than half a day)?

Russia and China putting their soldiers there as a sort of human shield is a smart strategy, though I hope those guys are at least getting time-and-a-half. Bombing a foreign nation to shit is one thing but it's entirely different if foreign nationals from important countries end up in the line of fire.

Trump getting pissy about it is proof that it's effective. I expect the Israelis in the Whitehouse will try to maneuver him into unleashing his pent up aggression on Venezuela. If for some reason he decided to deploy the troops to the southern border then nothing would happen at all, but be sure that the second he gives the go-ahead to mess with Venezuela the MIC will race beyond his control at lightning speed.

This reminds me of the NYT editorial cartoon where they implied that the average American soldier wants to enlist to fight in the middle east, not to protect their borders. One of the more blatant (yet painfully common) projections of neocon dogma in the MSM...

(04-02-2019 09:21 PM)Kid Twist Wrote:  

(04-02-2019 11:20 AM)infowarrior1 Wrote:  ...
Especially true of the Byzantine Empire. After its sack by the 4th Crusade. Never recovered ever again.

Just to be factual it was the longest running empire by centuries (300-1453) in the modern era, and nothing is close. Yet most people don't know nearly a single thing about it.

The Celestial Empire of China run nearly twice as long, some might say it's still going strong today, with that country on the brink of becoming the world's greatest power... They've invested $6 trillion into building and securing their economic and commercial infrastructure, while the US has squandered that same gigantic amount into (((mideastern wars))) with nothing to show for but colossal debt.

(04-02-2019 10:42 PM)Going strong Wrote:  In any case, I don't understand what the Chinese or Russian soldiers are doing there, in Venezuela: they are just giving President Trump powerful and blatant arguments for intervening. I mean, all Trump now has to do is, send missiles onto the presidential palace (and a few military bases) of Maduro, and say he had to stop Chinese and Russian "invasion", and that's it, MSM won't even be able to protest.

I mean, President Trump could now easily obtain a prestigious and easy "victory" over the Russian Federation and Chinese State, which seem oblivious of the risk. Weird situation. Unless the RF and Chinese State have information pointing to a total incapacity of the USA to start a new war, which would change the whole World order. Or maybe the Russians and Chinese are trying to bait Trump into intervening, both hoping it'll be a new Vietnam war (which it won't, Venezuelan soldiers will not fight more than half a day)?

God, if I was China I would be salivating at the prospect of a US invasion of Venezuela. I would be all over that shit so fast. The Iraq/Afghan wars practically bankrupted us, and now they could get us to do it AGAIN? Think of all the military resources that we'd have to send, that would otherwise be going to the pacific. Think of the openings created by the rift in US/South American relations, both for trade and foreign relations. Think of the money we'd have to spend policing the inevitable insurgency, paying for healthcare for our wounded, etc. instead of upgrading our aging infrastructure. Think of how much attention it would divert away from China's bad trade practices, just when we're finally starting to deal with those.

If I was China I would do practically whatever it takes to get the US to invade.