Post: #401

(04-06-2017 10:31 PM)Leonard D Neubache Wrote:  That is the message, loud and clear, or does anyone here actually think that Assad and Putin are dumb enough to commit legitimate war crimes at this stage of affairs?

Yes...
Assad and his entourage are ruthless thugs. I have refrained from posting in this thread and I know this is going against the popular opinion. Assad understands demographics very well, his Alawite tribe is a tiny minority in a sea of angry and vengeful Sunnis. All the orphan kids are going to grow up to fight the regime.

It makes perfect sense for him to use chemical weapons. He has the logistics and the motive that the "rebels" lack to complete the attack. I believe US radars can track down airplanes route and trace where the attack came from and so I trust they have the right intelligence unless of course they plan on misleading the public.

Then again it is completely naive to trust the Russians or Syrian government. I don't put anything past the Assads and their history of butchery. There are no good guys in this fight. Would I have preferred a stable Syria under Assad? Of course but we are past that point and there is no going back.

Trump made the perfect decision and showed some spine unlike Obama with his red line empty threats. The US official inactivity even while supplying the rebels with weapons through the CIA (which seems to be it's own neo-con entity) meant things would continue to be in a deadlock. Trump's move breaks the deadlock and will force more serious negotiations on all fronts. I believe Syria will be divided, which I would take over an eternal war.

Trust me this was the best move.

Post: #402

(04-06-2017 10:55 PM)syrianguy Wrote:  Trump made the perfect decision and showed some spine unlike Obama with his red line empty threats.
Trust me this was the best move.

Yes. I think soon as we heard Trump says the Syria Chem attack 'crossed many, many lines' it was inevitable he would respond in some measurable way - especially when we take into account his criticism of Obama's 2012 'red line' impotency.

An ultimately foolish move by Assad if did indeed play a part in the chem attack.

Post: #403

(04-06-2017 10:55 PM)syrianguy Wrote:  

(04-06-2017 10:31 PM)Leonard D Neubache Wrote:  That is the message, loud and clear, or does anyone here actually think that Assad and Putin are dumb enough to commit legitimate war crimes at this stage of affairs?

Yes...
Assad and his entourage are ruthless thugs. I have refrained from posting in this thread and I know this is going against the popular opinion. Assad understands demographics very well, his Alawite tribe is a tiny minority in a sea of angry and vengeful Sunnis. All the orphan kids are going to grow up to fight the regime.

It makes perfect sense for him to use chemical weapons. He has the logistics and the motive that the "rebels" lack to complete the attack. I believe US radars can track down airplanes route and trace where the attack came from and so I trust they have the right intelligence unless of course they plan on misleading the public.

Then again it is completely naive to trust the Russians or Syrian government. I don't put anything past the Assads and their history of butchery. There are no good guys in this fight. Would I have preferred a stable Syria under Assad? Of course but we are past that point and there is no going back.

Trump made the perfect decision and showed some spine unlike Obama with his red line empty threats. The US official inactivity even while supplying the rebels with weapons through the CIA (which seems to be it's own neo-con entity) meant things would continue to be in a deadlock. Trump's move breaks the deadlock and will force more serious negotiations on all fronts. I believe Syria will be divided, which I would take over an eternal war.

Trust me this was the best move.

Why would Assad use chemical weapons in the first place? How would it help him at all when he is already winning anyway? And he knows the US government is going to use this as an excuse to attack him regardless of what the real case is. No matter how you try to skirt around it, this does not make any sense at all.

No, Trump's best move would have been to take this opportunity to point out the barbarism of the so-called "moderate rebels" that Obama has been backing. Perfect opportunity to show how much of a fool Obama was to support a bunch of terrorists who would do such a thing, and call out the MSM for claiming the government is behind this without any evidence.

But the action he took is nothing less than a betrayal of those who supported him. If we wanted this shit we would have supported Hillary instead.

Post: #404

(04-06-2017 10:55 PM)syrianguy Wrote:  

(04-06-2017 10:31 PM)Leonard D Neubache Wrote:  That is the message, loud and clear, or does anyone here actually think that Assad and Putin are dumb enough to commit legitimate war crimes at this stage of affairs?

Yes...
Assad and his entourage are ruthless thugs. I have refrained from posting in this thread and I know this is going against the popular opinion. Assad understands demographics very well, his Alawite tribe is a tiny minority in a sea of angry and vengeful Sunnis. All the orphan kids are going to grow up to fight the regime.

It makes perfect sense for him to use chemical weapons. He has the logistics and the motive that the "rebels" lack to complete the attack. I believe US radars can track down airplanes route and trace where the attack came from and so I trust they have the right intelligence unless of course they plan on misleading the public.

Then again it is completely naive to trust the Russians or Syrian government. I don't put anything past the Assads and their history of butchery. There are no good guys in this fight. Would I have preferred a stable Syria under Assad? Of course but we are past that point and there is no going back.

Trump made the perfect decision and showed some spine unlike Obama with his red line empty threats. The US official inactivity even while supplying the rebels with weapons through the CIA (which seems to be it's own neo-con entity) meant things would continue to be in a deadlock. Trump's move breaks the deadlock and will force more serious negotiations on all fronts. I believe Syria will be divided, which I would take over an eternal war.

Trust me this was the best move.

No, it doesn't. Why has not each Alawite been rounded up and taken to the sand to be butchered like animals? IF the Alawites are so stern on keeping power why can't the majority overturn them? This is what happens when minority groups push their hand to heavy, they get routed out and only stay or keep power when a larger power comes to their aid with military or financial support.

When my own people, who were ethnic minorities tried to push are hand the majority rebelled against us and nearly committed a genocide against us. History is littered with similar examples.

In the game of chess, Assaad has no reason to use such excessive force against his own people. The rebels have been flatlined for months and they have been more and more desperate.

Post: #405

(04-06-2017 11:05 PM)Royalist and Legitimist Wrote:  No, Trump's best move would have been to take this opportunity to point out the barbarism of the so-called "moderate rebels" that Obama has been backing.

We can only hope that comes next. And if it turns out it was actually the 'moderate rebels' then he is locked into acting against them. A dangerous position to be in.

Post: #406

Post: #407

(04-06-2017 11:13 PM)budoslavic Wrote:  

BEIRUT, EL-KUWAIT, April 7. / Corr. Pavel Prokofiev. The Syrian authorities confirm the US missile attacks on the Air Force base in the central region of Syria. This was reported by the information agency SANA .
"One of our military bases in the central region (country) was subjected to missile fire from the US this morning, resulting in casualties," SANA quotes a military source in Syria.

According to the Al Jazeera TV channel, the Syrian authorities are evacuating the victims from Shayrat airbase in Homs province.

According to the Governor of Homs province, Talal al-Barrazi, the operation to extinguish the fire on the territory of the airfield and evacuation of the wounded has been going on for about two hours.

Earlier, al-Barrazi called the incident "an act of aggression", serving the interests of terrorist groups.

According to Sky News Arabia , the United States released about 70 missiles at a military base in Syria.

On Thursday, the US Armed Forces, on the orders of President Donald Trump, launched 59 Tomahawk cruise missiles at a military airfield in the Syrian province of Homs. The missile strike was a response to the alleged use on April 4 of chemical weapons in the Syrian province of Idlib. The US leadership believes that this alleged airfield was the site of the alleged hematoca.


Подробнее на ТАСС:

Post: #408

Post: #409

For Assad to win he would have to kill every last Syran sunni and replace them with Persians. I am not even sure what he rules anymore, last I heard even Damascus was under constant attacks with local rebels using the city's tunnels to move. You just don't understand how it is in the country as a whole, Assad has been on life support and he has no choice.

Barrel bombing vs chemical weapons. Guess which is better for mass extermination. His uncle, the butcher of Hama, pretty much eradicated an entire city in a week and you think it is far-fetched for them to use chemical weapons? I am not taking sides just can't be too gullible about Assad.

Post: #410

(04-06-2017 11:07 PM)kosko Wrote:  No, it doesn't. Why has not each Alawite been rounded up and taken to the sand to be butchered like animals? IF the Alawites are so stern on keeping power why can't the majority overturn them? This is what happens when minority groups push their hand to heavy, they get routed out and only stay or keep power when a larger power comes to their aid with military or financial support.

When my own people, who were ethnic minorities tried to push are hand the majority rebelled against us and nearly committed a genocide against us. History is littered with similar examples.

In the game of chess, Assaad has no reason to use such excessive force against his own people. The rebels have been flatlined for months and they have been more and more desperate.

Alawites are getting butchered...
they have ruled with an iron fist with a thick web of spies killing and jailing all dissent for 40 years that's why they are still here. Without Iran, Russia and Hezbolah's injections Assad would not have lasted a month. ISIS fighters are a joke. Assad's real problem is that 3/4 of the population is now against him.

Post: #411

Trump was in a no-win situation. The master negotiator was completely played by the deep state and establishment.

Now we know why they pushed the Russian conspiracy against him so early and hard, no matter how stupid it was. It sounded completely ridiculous and did nothing against him in the election. Looks like it wasn't meant to.

If he said the truth - that the chemical attack was likely a false flag conducted by rebels armed by the Saudis/CIA/whoever the fuck, he would be labelled a conspiracy theorist. He would be labelled Putin's puppet. His entire agenda and presidency would be derailed with the screeching of a Trump/Putin conspiracy to let the children of Syria suffer.

What he did was smart politics. The establishment, for the first time, is showering him with praise. Perhaps now they will let him build the border wall, or pass Obamacare repeal? Maybe the healthcare negotiations were nothing but a smoke show - he wouldn't get anything done without giving the murdering neocons and globalists what they wanted, another war.

I feel betrayed and lied to, but also understand why he did it. If we lived in a different world, one depicted in action movies and 24 where there are good guys and bad guys, I would even say his actions are just and moral.

But after the lie that was 9/11, the Iraq War, the Gulf of Tonkin, etc etc... the burden of doubt is on the intelligence community to prove this isn't another lie meant to line their pockets and meet their agendas.

We didn't vote for another politician. We voted to drain the swamp. Looks like that may not be possible.

Post: #412

(04-06-2017 11:49 PM)AFS Wrote:  Trump was in a no-win situation. The master negotiator was completely played by the deep state and establishment.

Now we know why they pushed the Russian conspiracy against him so early and hard, no matter how stupid it was. It sounded completely ridiculous and did nothing against him in the election. Looks like it wasn't meant to.

If he said the truth - that the chemical attack was likely a false flag conducted by rebels armed by the Saudis/CIA/whoever the fuck, he would be labelled a conspiracy theorist. He would be labelled Putin's puppet. His entire agenda and presidency would be derailed with the screeching of a Trump/Putin conspiracy to let the children of Syria suffer.

What he did was smart politics. The establishment, for the first time, is showering him with praise. Perhaps now they will let him build the border wall, or pass Obamacare repeal? Maybe the healthcare negotiations were nothing but a smoke show - he wouldn't get anything done without giving the murdering neocons and globalists what they wanted, another war.

I feel betrayed and lied to, but also understand why he did it. If we lived in a different world, one depicted in action movies and 24 where there are good guys and bad guys, I would even say his actions are just and moral.

But after the lie that was 9/11, the Iraq War, the Gulf of Tonkin, etc etc... the burden of doubt is on the intelligence community to prove this isn't another lie meant to line their pockets and meet their agendas.

We didn't vote for another politician. We voted to drain the swamp. Looks like that may not be possible.

REALPOLITIK

Post: #413

Alex Jones's quick analysis.





I think we'll know one way or the other very soon.

Post: #414

(04-06-2017 11:33 PM)syrianguy Wrote:  Alawites are getting butchered...
they have ruled with an iron fist with a thick web of spies killing and jailing all dissent for 40 years that's why they are still here. Without Iran, Russia and Hezbolah's injections Assad would not have lasted a month. ISIS fighters are a joke. Assad's real problem is that 3/4 of the population is now against him.

Bullshit.

The overwhelming majority of Syrians support President Assad. Assad is the protector of minorities including Christians, Allawis and Druze who are down to be slaughtered by your jihadi chums. Assad's wife is Sunni, most of his Cabinet are Sunnis as are most of the SAA. Damascus and the big cities are Sunnis yet they still support Assad. If 3/4 of the Syrian population did not support President Assad, he would be swinging from a lampost in central Damascus. He was democratically elected by the people in elections that you lot consider 'haram'. Assad is the protector of civilisation and ME Christians and minorities. Go crawl back under your rock and hope and pray that the SAA, Hezbollah, Christian militias, Iran and Russia crush the swivel eyed Islamist loons and send them to hell.

GO BASHAR AL ASSAD!! GO HEZBOLLAH!! GO IRAN!! GO RUSSIA!!

P.S.

ISIS and Al-Qaeda have launched major offensives this morning on foot of Trump's air strikes.

Post: #415

The situation has yet to play out in full.
One could hope it's a one off or that U.S. forces will switch gears to targeting Islamic State rather than Assad.
Still... :

Never trust a skirt.

Post: #416

(04-07-2017 12:05 AM)Traktor Wrote:  Bullshit.

The overwhelming majority of Syrians support President Assad. Assad is the protector of minorities including Christians, Allawis and Druze who are down to be slaughtered by your jihadi chums. Assad's wife is Sunni, most of his Cabinet are Sunnis as are most of the SAA. Damascus and the big cities are Sunnis yet they still support Assad. If 3/4 of the Syrian population did not support President Assad, he would be swinging from a lampost in central Damascus. He was democratically elected by the people in elections that you lost consider 'haram'. Go crawl back under your rock and hope and pray that the SAA, Hezbollah, Christian militias, Iran and Russia crush the swivel eyed Islamist loons and send them to hell.

GO BASHAR AL ASSAD!! GO HEZBOLLAH!! GO IRAN!! GO RUSSIA!!

Laughable statement and I am sure you believe he won with 97% votes in his mickey mouse election If this had any semblance of reality on the ground Bashar would have brought the country back under control in 2012. You don't think I want the islamists crushed? There is a difference between my personal wishes and what is actually happening. This is just entering the realm of delusion. I am saying this based on what I hear from multiple acquaintances and arabic news blogs from both sides (Assad and rebels) not to mention having lived 23 years in the country. What do you base your information from ? Infowars? The Sunnis that supports him are all puppets that benefit directly from his rule same way Jews keep some gentiles as a front. I can probably count the Sunni families that support him on one hand.

Just to make it clear, I am on board with most of what is said i.e CIA arming ISIS, Isreal's expansion plans, ect... but I am just not going to romanticize Assad's legacy as he is nothing more than a brutal and opportunistic dictator. And I am convinced he used chemical weapons.

Post: #417

(04-06-2017 11:33 PM)syrianguy Wrote:  

(04-06-2017 11:07 PM)kosko Wrote:  No, it doesn't. Why has not each Alawite been rounded up and taken to the sand to be butchered like animals? IF the Alawites are so stern on keeping power why can't the majority overturn them? This is what happens when minority groups push their hand to heavy, they get routed out and only stay or keep power when a larger power comes to their aid with military or financial support.

When my own people, who were ethnic minorities tried to push are hand the majority rebelled against us and nearly committed a genocide against us. History is littered with similar examples.

In the game of chess, Assaad has no reason to use such excessive force against his own people. The rebels have been flatlined for months and they have been more and more desperate.

Alawites are getting butchered...
they have ruled with an iron fist with a thick web of spies killing and jailing all dissent for 40 years that's why they are still here. Without Iran, Russia and Hezbolah's injections Assad would not have lasted a month. ISIS fighters are a joke. Assad's real problem is that 3/4 of the population is now against him.

Not really. Many sunnis in Syria were anti-Assad early on, but most of them now realize that he is at the very least the lesser evil, the alternative being complete chaos, and a failed state with no water, food or electricity. They realize that the Gulf-funded jihadis that have poured in from Arabia, Chechnya, Libya and European hellholes like Molenbeek or Trappes were not sent there to build anything good, but to destroy their most precious historic artifacts, steal their oil and rape their neighbors.

The "rebels" weren't even able to hold on to Aleppo, a sunni city of 5 millions, because most of the residents there did not cooperate with the jihadis. The fact that Israel and the US are now openly bombing Syria will mean that any Syrians who were on the fence will now rally around their government.



I kind of had that sinking feeling after Bannon got canned, it felt like the globalists/neocons/cucks got the upper hand and that bad things were about to happen.

I'm 5-10 pages behind on the Trump thread, in case it hasn't been covered there:

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/20...-back.html

“Stephen Bannon has called the president’s senior advisor and son-in-law Jared Kushner a “cuck” and a “globalist” during a time of high tension between the two top aides, several Trump administration officials told The Daily Beast.

The fighting between Kushner and Bannon has been “nonstop” in recent weeks, according to sources who spoke on condition of anonymity. It’s been an “open secret” that Bannon and Kushner often clash “face-to-face,” according to senior officials.

...Jared Kushner, perhaps the one presidential aide who cannot be fired, is now in regular text message communications with Joe Scarborough,” Roger Stone, a former longtime political adviser to Trump, claimed on Alex Jones’s show. “Many of the anti-Steve Bannon stories that you see, the themes that you see on [MSNBC’s] Morning Joe, are being dictated by Kushner."

Post: #418

Aleppo was barrel bombed out of existence. The city is nothing but rubbles. I really want to buy into your fairytale with Sunnis and Alawites holding hands fighting ISIS and building the country again with Christians dancing in the middle but I will need a lot of blue pills for that. The Sunnis realize they have been fucked by Assad. actually all of the Sunni's I personally know have lost a cousin or a relative and guess who they hate for that ? Hint: not ISIS. How is that rebels operate if they don't have support from the people it is just a ridiculous premise.

Post: #419

For your consideration:



I'm not ready to come to the same conclusion, but the historical record seems highly relevant.

Post: #420

(04-07-2017 12:41 AM)911 Wrote:  http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/20...-back.html

“Stephen Bannon has called the president’s senior advisor and son-in-law Jared Kushner a “cuck” and a “globalist” during a time of high tension between the two top aides, several Trump administration officials told The Daily Beast.

The Daily Beast?

Can you provide a better source than Chelsea Clinton's blog.

Post: #421

I read Syria doesn't have gender-neutral bathrooms, that's reason enough for me to remove Assad. No cost is too high.

Post: #422

I hope Trump is using this as an excuse to bomb Obamas ISIS leftovers in Syria.

Otherwise we got a problem.

Post: #423

(04-07-2017 02:00 AM)Sooth Wrote:  I hope Trump is using this as an excuse to bomb Obamas ISIS leftovers in Syria.

Otherwise we got a problem.

At the moment he is helping ISIS. They are already trying to gain advantage.

ISIL launches offensive near military base targeted by US missiles

Unfortunately the attacked airbase is the Sha'ayrat airbase not far away from ISIS occupied territory and the ancient and recently liberated city Palmyra. The Pentagon says the base was used to execute the recent gas attack but we are still waiting for a proof.

Post: #424

   

Post: #425

(04-06-2017 10:06 PM)SamuelBRoberts Wrote:  

(04-06-2017 09:52 PM)SamuelBRoberts Wrote:  It looks like... Trump just targeted a random runway and a few tanks of fuel?
He didn't even take out most of the jets?

Now I'm less pissed, and more utterly confused. This is a pointless show of force... but who is he showing, and why?

The more I think about this, the more I think this is 3D chess. Missiles that can target runways and fuel tanks at a heavily defended airbase could just easily target their jets, their control facilities, or hell, some of Assad's senior general's houses. The fact that Trump opted not to target anything of value tells me that he didn't intend for this to lead to any escalation.

This puts an end to the stupid Russia allegations, and also sends a message to Assad that he needs to knock off the chemical weapons shit. It also serves as a reminder that even a more isolationist US is willing to use weapons if it feels it's necessary.


I'm happy to entertain objections to this theory, provided they can explain why Trump's "retaliatory strike" retaliated against a couple thousand bucks worth of fuel and concrete that probably won't even knock the airfield out of commission for a full day.

At first I was ambivalent at the quick attack in Syria - in part for reasons expressed here. But this retaliation does several things, and all at once, and it resonates in multiple theaters of conflict in the world.

First, since Obama did not get Syria to relinquish chem weaps in exchange for non-intervention, this means Trump-led USA has a new Sherriff to enforce agreements. Secondly, this attempts to restore the status quo ante on the use of banned weapons like chem weaps. Third, it puts Putin in an awkward position: you didn't perform getting the chem weaps out? And you are a signatory banning them?

This gives Trump bargaining power with Putin - and not just in Syria!

Fourth, the timing of this retaliatory attack coming as Trump's opening night with China's leader in Florida nicely sends home the theme that unlike Obama, Trump's no pushover. In addition to peaceful trade conflicts to address, there is the Spratly Islands territorial dispute, and then there's North Korea....

And fifth, there is Kim Jong Un of the new nuke North Korea. If he wants to stay in power, then this resolute display of power drives home the message "And I mean it!" from Trump.

A possible sixth is that it helps slay the 'traitor Trump' to Russia mania meme that's dominated so ridiculously long. In effect, "I ain't no Putin's bitch." bitches!

Thus, Trump gains a lot of chits in the game of geopolitical conflict resolution, and all of them play to his negotiating advantage.

I haven't even mentioned how this quick strike in Syria also sends a supportive message to important regional Sunni players like Saudi - and, correspondingly, it stands as a warning to Shia Iran.

Therefore, since this is more of a demonstration of resoluteness in the will use of power than an opening for continued war-making, and since this Syrian strike is limited, I find it hard to find a downside.... That is, if negotiating from a position of strength is wise, and trying to do so from a position of weakness -like Obama did - isn't.