Pelosi's response from the Conservative Treehouse:

Next step: Trump books a big fucking hall and has the SOTU there.

Nah, just hold it in the white house, maybe the white house lawn if they don't have a large enough space indoors for all of the seats.

(01-23-2019 04:41 PM)Malone Wrote:  Next step: Trump books a big fucking hall and has the SOTU there.

Do it inside Trump Tower, or one of the Trump hotels.

(01-23-2019 05:19 PM)Caduceus Wrote:  

(01-23-2019 04:41 PM)Malone Wrote:  Next step: Trump books a big fucking hall and has the SOTU there.

Do it inside Trump Tower, or one of the Trump hotels.

Organize a massive MAGA rally and hold it there.

I learned something new today.

Apparently if a government shutdown (a shutdown furlough) lasts for longer than 30 days, it is possible for the OMB to create administrative plans to lay off federal agencies or employees full cloth.

https://www.opm.gov/policy-data-oversigh...n-Furlough

Here's an interesting theory to it:
https://www.americanthinker.com/blog/201..._trap.html

Quote:Has President Trump suckered Democrats and the Deep State into a trap that will enable a radical downsizing of the federal bureaucracy? In only five more days of the already "longest government shutdown in history" (25 days and counting, as of today), a heretofore obscure threshold will be reached, enabling permanent layoffs of bureaucrats furloughed 30 days or more.

Don't believe me that federal bureaucrats can be laid off? Well, in bureaucratese, a layoff is called a RIF – a Reduction in Force – and of course, it comes with a slew of civil service protections. But, if the guidelines are followed, bureaucrats can be laid off – as in no more job. It is all explained by Michael Roberts here (updated after the beginning of the partial shutdown):


A reduction in force is a thoughtful and systematic elimination of positions. For all practical purposes, a government RIF is the same thing as a layoff. ...

Organizations must stick to predetermined criteria when sorting out what happens to each employee. They must communicate with employees how and why decisions are made. ...

In deciding who stays and who goes, federal agencies must take four factors into account:



1. Tenure

2. Veteran status

3. Total federal civilian and military service

4. Performance

Agencies cannot use RIF procedures to fire bad employees.

Update: See also: OMB issues guidance on Reduction in Force layoffs due to partial shutdown

A lot of procedures must be followed, and merit ("performance") is the last consideration, but based on the criteria above, employees already furloughed can be laid off ("RIFed") once they have been furloughed for 30 days or 22 work days:


When agencies furlough employees for more than 30 calendar days or 22 discontinuous work days, they must use RIF procedures.

An employee can be terminated or moved into an available position[.]

This seems to be what was referenced in this remarkable essay written by an "unidentified senior Trump official" published in the Daily Caller, which vouches for the authenticity of the author and explains that it is protecting him from adverse career consequences should the name become known. I strongly recommend reading the whole thing.

The purported senior official makes the case that devotion to "process" eats up most of the time of federal bureaucrats and is also used by enemies of President Trump's initiatives to stymie the legitimate orders issued by his senior officials:


On an average day, roughly 15 percent of the employees around me are exceptional patriots serving their country. I wish I could give competitive salaries to them and no one else. But 80 percent feel no pressure to produce results. If they don't feel like doing what they are told, they don't.

Why would they? We can't fire them. They avoid attention, plan their weekend, schedule vacation, their second job, their next position – some do this in the same position for more than a decade.

They do nothing that warrants punishment and nothing of external value. That is their workday: errands for the sake of errands – administering, refining, following and collaborating on process. "Process is your friend" is what delusional civil servants tell themselves. Even senior officials must gain approval from every rank across their department, other agencies and work units for basic administrative chores.

Then the senior official notes what I have just called the "trap":


Most of my career colleagues actively work against the president's agenda. This means I typically spend about 15 percent of my time on the president's agenda and 85 percent of my time trying to stop sabotage, and we have no power to get rid of them. Until the shutdown.

Those officials who waste time and stymie the president's initiatives now are not present because they are not categorized as "essential."


Due to the lack of funding, many federal agencies are now operating more effectively from the top down on a fraction of their workforce, with only select essential personnel serving national security tasks. ...

President Trump can end this abuse. Senior officials can reprioritize during an extended shutdown, focus on valuable results and weed out the saboteurs. We do not want most employees to return, because we are working better without them.

Keep in mind that saboteurs cannot be individually identified and RIFed, but they can be included in the layoffs if they meet the criteria above in terms of seniority and service, and they must be given 60 days' notice. But once they are gone, they are no longer free to obstruct using the "process" as their friend, because they are gone.

You can expect lawsuits on every conceivable point, and I suspect that the definition of "furlough" will be one matter of dispute.

If this was the plan all along, it would explain why President Trump goaded Chuck and Nancy in his televised meeting with them last year, boasting that he would claim credit for the shutdown. How could they resist a prolonged shutdown when he made it so easy to blame him?

President Trump has proven that he is a "disruptor" who changes the framework of thinking on major issues by refusing to accept the "givens" – the assumptions of how things always have been done and therefore always must be done.

So who is the "senior official"? I don't know, but I think Stephen Miller is the sort of bold thinker who might volunteer to telegraph the strategy just five days before the deadline. Give Chuck and Nancy something to think about and probably reject as unthinkable. Then they can't complain that they weren't warned once the trap is sprung.

Such a mass RIF would be the Trump version of Ronald Reagan firing the air traffic controllers when they went on an illegal strike in 1981. That was completely unexpected by his enemies, vehemently criticized, and successful.

Among other benefits, it taught the leaders of the USSR that Ronald Reagan was a man whose threats cannot be dismissed as mere rhetoric. If you think that Xi Jinping, Kim Jong-un, Angela Merkel, and any other foreign leaders would not draw the same conclusion from a massive RIF, then you are kidding yourself.

My theory may be completely wrong, but I pray that it is not.

What makes this theory all the more interesting is the guy who is in charge of the OMB, Mick Mulvaney. He is the one who has gone on the news repeatedly over the past two years trying to get the Democrats to pass a full budget and reduce spending in government to be coupled with the tax cuts, but to no avail.





Guess who is the one requesting the a list of programs "vulnerable to shutdown" for RIF consideration? Guess who gets to make the decision to force RIF plans to be made? Mick fucking Mulvaney.

https://thehill.com/homenews/administrat...y-shutdown

This might be a huge fucking Trump trap to drain the swamp by eliminating the employees and agencies that make up the swamp. On top of this, Trump gets the spending cuts that he always desired. This would explain why Trump baited Pelosi and Schumer to maintain the shutdown by accepting responsibility for it. As I mentioned before, my main operating theory is that Trump is assuming that he is not getting re-elected due to an impending stock market crisis that should happen over the next few months, which is why he is going all in hard right now. If he isn't going to get re-elected, he might as well force everything he wants through.

This is a theory, but if this turns out to be correct, oh boy. Will we see an 80% reduction in Federal agencies?

I saw this through AnonymousConservative's site. Would like to hear your opinions on this since as far as I know nobody posted this up here:

AC's comments:

Quote:US spies have had backchannel communication with North Korean spies for over a decade. Obama era-spies are trying to claim they opened communications with North Korean spies to try and defuse tensions and create peace. Yet the Norks held our hostages until Trump came on the scene, and North Korea wasn’t suddenly desirous of good relations until something happened behind the scenes. This is Cabal-CIA officials looking to produce a cover story for why they were involved in North Korea when it ostensibly was a hostile foreign actor.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/u-s-and-nor...1548091335

Bits from the article itself:

Quote:WASHINGTON—U.S. intelligence officials have met with North Korean counterparts secretly for a decade, a covert channel that allowed communications during tense times, aided in the release of detainees and helped pave the way for President Trump’s historic summit last year with North Korean leader Kim Jong Un.

Edit.

(01-23-2019 06:30 PM)Mr. Accuride Wrote:  ...my main operating theory is that Trump is assuming that he is not getting re-elected due to an impending stock market crisis that should happen over the next few months, which is why he is going all in hard right now. If he isn't going to get re-elected, he might as well force everything he wants through.

This is a theory, but if this turns out to be correct, oh boy. Will we see an 80% reduction in Federal agencies?

I have proposed a similiar theory as well...Trump running for re-election in 2020 is in no way guaranteed. Of course, officially he has said he will run and is registered and is raising funds...but he can always change his mind. Trump has never liked losing...and hates losing in view of the public even more, so if re-election looks too close to call, in my opinion he won't run.


Trump's first term in office ends in exactly 2 years from today.
Use these remaining 2 years wisely to prepare for very bad times.

(01-23-2019 06:40 AM)Spectrumwalker Wrote:  

(01-22-2019 11:49 PM)BostonBMW Wrote:  . With all this talk about he's authoritarian/literally Hitler, I almost wish we were in a right wing fascist state.

The answer to 1917 is 1973.

Agreed.

What the hell happened to this country? Since WWII each successive decade has been slowly degenerating the civic-nationalism that was once the bedrock of society. The 2010s have only accelerated the decline. We have various orcs on the left trying to devoid these United States of religion, patriotism, sense of community/society.

Just taking immigration as an example (I have others), I honestly believe Trump isn't going far enough: The wall is just one small step in ending immigration. This country needs an immediate moratorium on all immigration from all corners of the world. End birthright citizenship, end chain migration, end skills based migration etc. Take this moratorium period to enact operation Wetback 2. Shoot to kill anyone approaching the wall on the southern border (2 warning shots; 3rd for the kill). Do not leave the northern border wide open either, as we know the Trudeau led government is soft on immigration and border jumpers. Put in electronic surveillance and predator drones to discourage/kill anyone from crossing over. End all forms of bilingual language in public/government discourse. Shut down Univision and all non-English media.

Foster a civic culture and pride in this great nation irrespective of creed, skin color. As for the scummiest of scum (white liberals), revoke their citizenship and encourage self deportation - make it inhospitable for them to spew their vile satanic/socialist/degeneracy. Ensure that this moratorium period lasts for 20-30 years and then lets talk.

Typical of a chick to be small-minded (Nancy Pelosi).

Trump is someone more than willing to go against the grain & not stick with the 'establishments' nonsense.
Now she's handed him the opportunity to do a Trumpesque SOTU.

I'm sure he intends for it to be bigly.

Will be surprised is Venezuela isn't dominating the news cycle by the weekend, competing with the shutdown circus. Could turn into something huge, as usual we'll have to wait and see.

This is the best course of action. A modified rally at a stadium or civic center is indeed not the same as the State of the Union Address, and seeing him forced to use the Capital One Arena instead of the House of Representatives would not look good, and would be somewhat of a victory for the left. T understands this.

It is better to let the public see and feel that there will not be an address this year (or a postponed one) because Nancy Pelosi shut it down and won't allow him in the chamber. The American people like their traditions- more than most people realize, or even you yourself might personally realize. Trump appreciates and loves these traditions deeply.

This denial of access to the President is somewhat unheard of- letting Pelosi and the Dems own that dubious distinction, and not giving them an out by doing it elsewhere, will have the most impact.

It’s still fun to make fun of !Jeb!

Trump is not going to be able to negotiate the wall from the democrats. They are not interested in any deal that fucks up the momentum they have from people crossing the border into America and voting D. They are also never going to agree to him fulfilling his biggest campaign promise and cruising to victory in 2020.

I imagine Trump knows this, and he is just dragging this all out to make them look worse and worse. He's paying attention to the polls that show his approval vs the Democrats on the government shutdown. If he gets the edge in that poll it's a victory.

He could try and push a healthcare deal that moderate Democrats approve as a bargaining chip, but it will be tough to get the Rand Paul and Ted Cruz crowd on the right. He's already pissing people off on the right by offering temp visas.

I think it's stupid for him to negotiate when he can just declare an emergency and divert a small fraction of the trillions of dollars that go to the military. He's getting killed in the polls again and needs to just do whatever it takes to build the wall, move on and sell some statistics on reduced crime and drugs for the 2020 campaign.

(01-23-2019 09:38 AM)Gmac Wrote:  Not the ideal outcome and what I'm about to say will sound like heresy, but I'd even be OK with green cards to clean the slate for the bigger picture to work out - it's not like those DACA recipients are going anywhere.

I don't see mass deportation happening, it will never be popular enough to work even on winning over the right. I think your average American would support it in the end too. Kushner actually has his pulse on things, whereas much of the internet warriors are on the fringe.

Could care less what Coulter thinks. Pipe dream lady with a childish arguments. The adults gotta make a deal at some point. My 2c.

This is ridiculous.

Green cards for anchor babies?

Give the democrats an instant 700-800k votes in the near future at the federal level and maybe instantly in some local/state races plus several million more a generation later after the DACA folks breed like rats? Did we learn absolutely nothing from amnesty in the 80's?

Quote:According to the Pew Research Center, the average age of the current DACA participants is 24. Two thirds are 25 or younger.

Most (83 percent) were unmarried at the time of their most recent application. Nearly half (45 percent) of them live in California (29 percent) and Texas (16 percent). Illinois (5 percent), New York (5 percent), Florida (4 percent) and Arizona (4 percent) also have significant populations of active DACA recipients.

Source: https://thehill.com/opinion/immigration/...s-a-primer

I will give DACA people the right to stay with NO path to citizenship ever in exchange for:

1. Ending birthright citizenship.
2. Full wall funding.
3. Full deportation of all non-DACA people/all illegals.
4. Full ICE/BP/immigration court funding.
5. Federal ban on any welfare for non-citizens.
6. Federal ban on sanctuary anything.
7. End of visa lottery/chain migration.

DACA is really the only leverage we have right now and I'll be damn to hand over a path to citizenship to a bunch illegal invaders kids, almost all who will be democrats, and will amount to millions of future anti-MAGA votes in a generation. Some of which will impact critical tight elections in places like Texas and Florida in the near future. I've got my hands full already with self-hating white people and cucks but thanks for the additional challenge in keeping my country from being taken over by foreign invaders as it is.

But if we are taking that risk, we better get every goddamn thing we want. DACA green cards for partial wall funding? To get to the suppose bigger picture of which the democrats have no desire to entertain? FUCK THAT!

A very important thing to keep in mind above all: We are dealing with a corrupt entity that has been enormously hypocritical on immigration reform for decades. Why should WE give them a goddamn inch? From a speech by Daniel Greenfield:

Quote:A Democrat in the White House has “discretion” to completely decide every aspect of immigration policy. A Republican doesn’t even have the “discretion” to reverse him.

[...]

Under Obama, states weren’t allowed to enforce immigration laws. That was the job of the Federal government. And the states weren’t allowed to interfere with the job that the Feds weren’t doing.

Okay.

Now Trump comes into office and starts enforcing immigration laws again. And California announces it’s a sanctuary state and passes a law punishing businesses that cooperate with Federal immigration enforcement.

So what do we have here?

It’s illegal for states to enforce immigration law because that’s the province of the Federal government. But it’s legal for states to ban the Federal government from enforcing immigration law.

The only consistent pattern here is that the left decided to make it illegal to enforce immigration law.

[...]

But that revolution was met with a counterrevolution by the left. The left wants a monarchy. It wants King Obama or Queen Oprah.

It wants to end government of the people, by the people and for the people. That’s what they’re fighting for. That’s what we’re fighting against. The stakes are as big as they’re ever going to get. Do elections matter anymore?

I live in the state of Ronald Reagan. I can go visit the Ronald Reagan Library any time I want to. But today California has one party elections. There are lots of elections and propositions. There’s all the theater of democracy, but none of the substance. Its political system is as free and open as the Soviet Union.

And that can be America.

The Trump years are going to decide if America survives. When his time in office is done, we’re either going to be California or a free nation once again.

The civil war is out in the open now and we need to fight the good fight. And we must fight to win.

Source: http://sultanknish.blogspot.com/2018/01/...a-tea.html (worth reading the whole thing by the way)

Here are some better plans:

Plan 1

1. Hold the line and wait until democrats fold.

2. Don't fold? Start firing furloughed non-essential federal employees in blocks; like shooting hostages one by one until you get what you want. Vast majority are democrat swamp scum and it's not like MD/DC/VA are ever voting for Trump anyway. Even on the GOP side, the DC area voted for cucks like Rubio and Kasich in the 2016 primary.

3. Get border security reform. All of it. Open gov't. OR Get wall funding to open gov't and use DACA people later for broader immigration reform.

Plan 2

1. Declare a national emergency or limited Martial Law and build the wall. I've explained before that Trump has valid Constitutional authority to declare Martial Law given the circumstances of a massive amount of unchecked foreign invaders present in the country already; with many continuing to come in with no end in sight. Furthermore, you have multiple states enabling this behavior (i.e. rebelling against the Union) via sanctuary laws and refusing to cooperate with the federal government.

I rather Trump go scorched-earth now while we still have some leverage and he is in office as oppose to a decade from now when we don't have the White House and the demographics are significantly worse off. Anti-white/anti-male/anti-MAGA hate is off the charts already and OUR guy is in charge. Imagine when he is gone and what these psychos will do with unchecked power towards us? Better take care of the problem now, harsh as it may take... or we will be paying a bigger price later on.

2. Open gov't and proceed to deal from there.

Bottom line:

We are running out of time. Period. And the deck is stacked against us plenty enough already.

We maybe have two years left of Trump and after all the voter fraud, lies, MSM hate, conservative de-humanization, unacknowledged violence towards MAGA people, violence against conservatives in general, career discrimination, witch hunts, false prosecutions, Mueller non-sense, campaign spying, traitorous cucks like Paul Ryan... and WE should cut the democrats a fucking break?

We need to crush the democrats. Not negotiate. They have lost the plot completely and are an enemy of the state.

So the time has come to go for the full monty and break their goddamn backs like they damn well deserve. Burn the house down (as in, the whole system) if necessary. Lord knows, they have had it coming for a LONG time.

The MAGA-hat triggered Indian is a professional cultural marxist oppression narrative opportunist:





4 years ago chief broken tooth was triggered by a mythical college costume party - all in Indian garb. When the cops arrived then they could not find the party, the Indian costumes, heck even any drunk college students who supposedly threw beer at him. He made the national fake news a couple times with this being the most successful stunt of the "Vietnam war times veteran". Of course the fake-news-brigade changed his 4 years as an electrician in the army as an infantry man in Vietnam. Yeah - by that measure George Bush junior was a Vietnam war vet as well flying jets in his luxury unit in the US. The cook in Washington who made food for the generals also was a Vietnam vet.

(01-24-2019 01:16 AM)The Black Knight Wrote:  Plan 2

1. Declare a national emergency or limited Martial Law and build the wall. I've explained before that Trump has valid Constitutional authority to declare Martial Law given the circumstances of a massive amount of unchecked foreign invaders present in the country already; with many continuing to come in with no end in sight. Furthermore, you have multiple states enabling this behavior (i.e. rebelling against the Union) via sanctuary laws and refusing to cooperate with the federal government.

I rather Trump go scorched-earth now while we still have some leverage and he is in office as oppose to a decade from now when we don't have the White House and the demographics are significantly worse off. Anti-white/anti-male/anti-MAGA hate is off the charts already and OUR guy is in charge. Imagine when he is gone and what these psychos will do with unchecked power towards us? Better take care of the problem now, harsh as it may take... or we will be paying a bigger price later on.

2. Open gov't and proceed to deal from there.

Bottom line:

We are running out of time. Period. And the deck is stacked against us plenty enough already.

We maybe have two years left of Trump and after all the voter fraud, lies, MSM hate, conservative de-humanization, unacknowledged violence towards MAGA people, violence against conservatives in general, career discrimination, witch hunts, false prosecutions, Mueller non-sense, campaign spying, traitorous cucks like Paul Ryan... and WE should cut the democrats a fucking break?

We need to crush the democrats. Not negotiate. They have lost the plot completely and are an enemy of the state.

So the time has come to go for the full monty and break their goddamn backs like they damn well deserve. Burn the house down (as in, the whole system) if necessary. Lord knows, they have had it coming for a LONG time.

I am definitely in favor of Plan 2. Like Trump said to the blacks, "What do you have to lose?" I am using very exact argument for Trump to shake things up. I mean, you have Dems already looking to impeach him, his MAGA supporters have been threatened/imperiled, and the window of opportunity is slipping away.

I am forever grateful that we have a President Trump, however he needs to crush the Democrats or else they will come back and crush him/his supporters.

@Black Knight

Well said. It's all up to us defending ourselves now. KGB style campaign spying, FBI helping out Clinton, demographics rapidly shifting, etc? Nope all is forgiven.

The bottom line is we have lost our way. Just skimming through the article the left is the dictators they claim they hate. When I have talked to liberals that larp up CNN drool they repeat talking points like "muh EU", "muh climate change", and "muh NATO". At best none of these big government policies impact me positively on a daily basis but at worst they keep taxing me through sneaky ways. For shame.

Somebody a couple pages back raised this issue earlier but I hope the admin can find a way to cut taxes so people can take home more money through the government shutdown. Create a Pavlovian response to government shutdowns. I could be wrong but I don't think the average joe knows or cares that the government is shutdown.

Quote:America was founded on getting away from professional government.

Quote:You know, the people who always say they know better, no matter how many times they screw up, because they’re the professionals. They’ve been in Washington D.C. politics since they were in diapers.

Quote:Power belongs to the people.

Quote:What infuriates professional government more than anything else? An amateur, someone like President Trump who didn’t spend his entire adult life practicing to be president, taking over the job.

Select comments:

Quote:A perfect article that describes exactly what is happening. I've always called it the DC Cartel. What surprises is me is that most people don't know or care what's going on. Anyone who works should never vote Democrat again after they tried to tell workers that getting more take home money is bad for them. The Left thinks people are mere gerbils. Boy, were they wrong. You hit the problem right on the head with a big hammer. We can either be Venezuela or America. Sadly, I think it's going to take a shooting war to decide the issue.

Quote:If TX goes blue the GOB will have to shift to the left and conservatism is finished. I am not sure it means we have a single party system, but it will mean we have a choice between two leftist parties.

The immigration debate is the single biggest issue. Democrats have turn the democratic process on its head. Instead of Americans deciding who our representatives are. They are choosing who Americans are. They are literally replacing the citizens of this country with illiberal Latin Americans and Arabs.

Quote:Trump is going to have to take the lead here. It can't be by Tweets. Trump is going to have to get out in front of the cameras and call the Left out. I'm not even sure if Pence is on our side here. He's more of a creature of the professional class himself. But we can win if we start organizing and working together effectively. That takes leadership. There is only one person big enough to fill that role.

(01-24-2019 01:16 AM)The Black Knight Wrote:  Bottom line:

We are running out of time. Period. And the deck is stacked against us plenty enough already.

We maybe have two years left of Trump and after all the voter fraud, lies, MSM hate, conservative de-humanization, unacknowledged violence towards MAGA people, violence against conservatives in general, career discrimination, witch hunts, false prosecutions, Mueller non-sense, campaign spying, traitorous cucks like Paul Ryan... and WE should cut the democrats a fucking break?

We need to crush the democrats. Not negotiate. They have lost the plot completely and are an enemy of the state.

So the time has come to go for the full monty and break their goddamn backs like they damn well deserve. Burn the house down (as in, the whole system) if necessary. Lord knows, they have had it coming for a LONG time.

Count me in brother, but I'll get to carry the Flammenwerfer.

Trump is going down the "beautiful loser" path.

This was just a ploy to keep America from seeing ginsburg's rotting corpse be wheeled in. There's been radio silence on her since she was last seen weeks ago, allegedly "working from home". bullshit. That alone was worth holding the SOTU.

No need to fret about Buzzie, she's going to retire before the end of the year, they can't hide her terminal stage cancer much longer.

Make America Great Again!