(11-16-2016 11:19 PM)Apollo21 Wrote:  What would be helpful is to see some real stats on approaching
i.e out of approaching 100 women, what are the avg success ratios
based on time spent following up...ie calling and setting up dates...
within a quality range of 8-9.

Ideally, you'd want women to connect with you instead of the other way round...
it's just too time consuming to chase and filter...it's not even sustainable.

It does takes extra work, however becoming an authority, coaching etc...
helping people get to the next level, providing a service can definitely help
get in front of that perfect prospect...and reach a girl who's already attracted to you.

Average guys don't do cold approach. They only go for sure things. So I'd say their life time average might be 1 in 5. Talk to maybe 30 chicks between 15-25, and fuck 5-7 of em. Marry the last one.

New guys doing cold approach don't know how to do it right at first.

But On any given night, a seasoned guy should either get a one night stands or solid #'s. Might be the first chick of the night, could be the last, could be one in the middle.

The usual problems for seasoned guys isn't attraction or trust, it's logistics.
i.e her cockblocking friends, job, car, or something else.

But make a chick laugh, tease her, win over the friends - that's all you need to stick your dick in her attraction wise.

With trust, show that you're not a serial killer to as many people as possible - and that's handled.

If you get her back to your place, with attraction and trust in tact, it's really giving her subconscious reasons to relax.

You're there, at your place, she's cool, you're cool, the tempo is nice - what reason does she not have to fuck you?

It's not that big of a deal.

These girls get dressed to go out, because they want to get fucked. Now they're thinking on a diff time table than us, but as long as we remove the obstacles, they'll spread the legs.

The bar is low for dick
The bar is high for husband.

WIA

Any thoughts on how much effort is too much, or too little when communicating with chicks?

I've blown off a fair share of chics for lackadaisical interaction an interest. I don't know if it's just my own idiosyncrasy or if women just generally feel the need to be entertained, interviewed and chased by men.

Don't get me wrong, I know how to ask open ended and emotion eliciting questions, but I feel like the (cursory) interest in each others lives should extend both ways.
I absolutely abhor having to interview a bish like I work for the New York times.

That's a good question, one without an answer.
Every chick is different, every situation is different, and minute 1 is different than minute 4.

If I'm out on the solo, I'll sidle up to a chick and say

"So dig....
*insert whatever I'm thinking of*"

and then end it with

"you feel me?"

She says whatever

And I say "I know right"

or

if she doesn't agree "you would say something like that"

In terms of rapport, I'm giving her a shot to seek rapport with me (good), instead of me digging through commonalities to seek rapport with her (bad).

She doesn't need to do much on her end, but the little that she does puts her in the sales funnel.(compliance)

It's a very black American style of game, and hard for me to really express to a global audience. But it typically takes advantage of my strengths - wit, observation, attention to detail, intelligence.

A chick doesn't even need to understand details, but she can get the story from my emotions.

By doing it this way, I'm not actually relying on her for feedback.

You see where I'm coming from?

There's probably a whole lot of game that I could explain here, but observe the 90/10 rule. You're doing 90% of the work. I observe that rule and tell stories, make observations, to get the conversation going, from there I can establish and then break rapport.

It's Thursday, bored at work. Let's chop up some game

WIA

(11-17-2016 11:53 AM)DimeBait Wrote:  Any thoughts on how much effort is too much, or too little when communicating with chicks?

I've blown off a fair share of chics for lackadaisical interaction an interest. I don't know if it's just my own idiosyncrasy or if women just generally feel the need to be entertained, interviewed and chased by men.

Don't get me wrong, I know how to ask open ended and emotion eliciting questions, but I feel like the (cursory) interest in each others lives should extend both ways.
I absolutely abhor having to interview a bish like I work for the New York times.

You need a reference conversation...where the vibe is strong and she's really into you.
That way you can judge other conversations and figure out if the present girl is just a drag
and really not that interesting based on other girls.

There's nothing wrong with screening women (within reason)...there's an opportunity cost
with everything we do so it's in our best interest to find a great girl.

Dimebait, I'm the same way when it comes to not looking or seeming bothered. Most of these lizards are bland on these sides. Something I have learnt from a friend of mine is to be on constant flirt mode. Say something, invite her somewhere be non committal. It's not the end sum that is the goal here but to keep your game engine warm so you can drive off once it's time.

(11-17-2016 01:02 AM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  

(11-16-2016 11:19 PM)Apollo21 Wrote:  What would be helpful is to see some real stats on approaching
i.e out of approaching 100 women, what are the avg success ratios
based on time spent following up...ie calling and setting up dates...
within a quality range of 8-9.

Ideally, you'd want women to connect with you instead of the other way round...
it's just too time consuming to chase and filter...it's not even sustainable.

It does takes extra work, however becoming an authority, coaching etc...
helping people get to the next level, providing a service can definitely help
get in front of that perfect prospect...and reach a girl who's already attracted to you.

Average guys don't do cold approach. They only go for sure things. So I'd say their life time average might be 1 in 5. Talk to maybe 30 chicks between 15-25, and fuck 5-7 of em. Marry the last one.

New guys doing cold approach don't know how to do it right at first.

But On any given night, a seasoned guy should either get a one night stands or solid #'s. Might be the first chick of the night, could be the last, could be one in the middle.

The usual problems for seasoned guys isn't attraction or trust, it's logistics.
i.e her cockblocking friends, job, car, or something else.

But make a chick laugh, tease her, win over the friends - that's all you need to stick your dick in her attraction wise.

With trust, show that you're not a serial killer to as many people as possible - and that's handled.

If you get her back to your place, with attraction and trust in tact, it's really giving her subconscious reasons to relax.

You're there, at your place, she's cool, you're cool, the tempo is nice - what reason does she not have to fuck you?

It's not that big of a deal.

These girls get dressed to go out, because they want to get fucked. Now they're thinking on a diff time table than us, but as long as we remove the obstacles, they'll spread the legs.

The bar is low for dick
The bar is high for husband.

WIA

That's true. It does come down to speed.

The more women you approach and followup with...the more obstacles you clear and your probabilities go up.

It's great to make a single approach, however the reality is you may need 15-20 approaches combined with another 10-15 followups to make real progress.

It's the process that leads to the prize.

I definitely understand your points. I guess, ultimately, it boils down to our previous discussion about putting in maximum investment (time) into chicks who offer a minimal return.

As I stated before, physical attraction alone isn't enough to justify the time sink and the "digging through commonalities to seek rapport" anymore. So, for me, mutual interest, social savviness and the ability to communicate effectively are key indicators on whether I want to invest my time.

However, on the other-hand, when I'm sitting at home-alone on a Saturday night, all that pickiness seems redundant.

I suppose I just need to play the numbers to increase the pool of eligible decent company. Nexting bishes because of their social awkwardness (or maybe even shyness) so fast may not always be whats best.

Maybe I should mentally allocate a certain number of hours a week for game/interaction and adjust accordingly depending on results.

WIA, you incorporate a Socratic method of teaching. You illicit the answers instead of giving them.

(11-17-2016 01:07 PM)Apollo21 Wrote:  It's great to make a single approach, however the reality is you may need 15-20 approaches combined with another 10-15 followups to make real progress.

It's the process that leads to the prize.

15-20 is not my reality,, unless you count every interaction I've had with every woman I've seen that day. I guess technically a co-worker could get the D.

We need to define better terms to make this a fruitful discussion

WIA

(11-17-2016 01:13 PM)DimeBait Wrote:  I definitely understand your points. I guess, ultimately, it boils down to our previous discussion about putting in maximum investment (time) into chicks who offer a minimal return.

As I stated before, physical attraction alone isn't enough to justify the time sink and the "digging through commonalities to seek rapport" anymore. So, for me, mutual interest, social savviness and the ability to communicate effectively are key indicators on whether I want to invest my time.

This is more about pool selection.

But brings up other issues,

What do you want to invest your time in?

I'm not sure I have an answer to that myself

(11-17-2016 01:13 PM)DimeBait Wrote:  WIA, you incorporate a Socratic method of teaching. You illicit the answers instead of giving them.

I assume familiarity. Most people adopt that frame provided that you don't shock them.

WIA

Most guys are lucky if they even get 1-2 interactions per day with a desirable woman
they'd like to date. It's usually more like 2-3 per month.

And that's the main problem...if you had just 3 decent conversations
every day with women for 30-60 days, that alone would outperform anything
you could do on the weekend such as going to the club or doing cold approaches
on the street when you had the time.

Apollo is right. The guys I see who hit on every lizard that looks good to them usually have the odds in their favour. Yes, it sounds like one is dumbing down the process but we have to take care of the basics. Archie, what number do you think is too low in terms of approach? Which number do you think is on the high side? A lot of guys find game to be a chore and so reduce talking to lizards as an end sum game. It is not.

Guys shaking off the rust or find approaching to be daunting should just get in the habit of being observant and social with various folks they come in contact with. What used to come natural for me started to become somewhat of a task once I relocated. Once I was forced to start building a social network, I had to figure out a way to make it feel less like firing up an old inactive Cadillac in the dead of winter. I usually present a subdued, and quiet exterior unless I'm around familiar faces. Luckily, I do have a 2nd gear that's naturally lighthearted, silly, sarcastic and witty but I have to make a conscious effort to stay in the zone.

Now I make up my mind to speak to the first person I see upon leaving my place and carry a playful attitude wherever I go. That way, you are not only unaware of the # of approached you are doing but you come off as less rehearsed/contrived because you are already in a flow of sociability. I'm flirting, make funny observations, and just placing myself in situations where once I do come across potential targets, my energy levels are already optimized and I don't have to work myself up to that level. When you're not "energized", that's when the over-thinking and anxiousness kicks in.

Are you guys seeing that many decent looking girls on a daily basis?

I might have to move.

(11-17-2016 04:33 PM)Moma Wrote:  Archie, what number do you think is too low in terms of approach? Which number do you think is on the high side? A lot of guys find game to be a chore and so reduce talking to lizards as an end sum game. It is not.

1) work the room, but only circle back to talk to cute chicks with good logistics

- how y'all doing
I see you over there working with something
*raise a glass*
What ch'all finna get into?
I bet you the designated driver
Holla atcha ya boy Archie when you see him

So to talk to everybody at the venue, but you only seriously run game on the sets that look favorable.

Is she feeling you?
Can you make it happen if she is?

You'll talk to a lot of people
This will take time depending on the size of the venue
But you won't show your hand if she can't fuck that night.

You might only seriously try to get at 3-4 chicks

2) Brute force numbers game/spam approach

Lemme holla atcha...
So dig...
And then you know ya boy had to say something
I know right...

*switch gears*

Okay, I'm feeling this, but you need to buy me a drink first...
Girl stop playing (which is surprisingly effective on non black women)...

Oh, that's your cousin....
Where your people?
I know this spot with some kicking pancakes...

Keep going until you get a chick that's down.

This could be a lot of chicks, or just a few. You roll the second you get a buyer, even if it's early in the night.

3) scope out one or two chicks max, and focus on banging that chick. That means you want to hang with her and her crew all night.

This is far less about dealing with the girl, and more about dealing with her crew. So maybe you come in on the entertainment tip, you have to use their attention to get to the alpha position of the group.

They're going to drink, dance, hit other venues, but you're just trying to be the last dude with the target. 3:30 am.at her place, just the two of you, things can go down.

So just talking to one or two girls is enough for this.

But this is a high risk/heavy investment strategy and better for really hot chicks, where the social situation doesn't allow you to really just pull your dick out so to speak.

If you're new to the game, you'll probably just do #2 - serial approach until success. New guys might get at 10 chicks a night, and fail for months. But that's the the learning curve.

Eventually nost of your conversations will open. Most of the time you can flirt, and she'll flirt back. Then it's building trust and handling logistics.

If you're seasoned, work the room is good for your social circle game, indirect game, hold court game, etc.

Persistence style of #3, I feel is a harder game to do, because your time "on" is greater. You really have to see someone do this to believe that it works, or a #2 style serial approach leads to logistical issues but you stay on the broad instead of peacing out.

Styles 4 - one shot, one kill

Sometimes you see a chick and just KNOW you can pull her. For me, i see a chick in headwrap, and I know it's a wrap. I am her type. There will me some initial friction, but Rita Marley belongs with Bob. See a hippie ish white girl? Weed smoking Latina? I can run down who likes my look, and know I don't need to chat much, it's more of a scheduling issue.

So it's talking to one chick.

To me, the holy grail is to spot *any* chick in any situation, run her through the sales funnel and profit. Make her handle her issues because she wants to be with you. To have true choice, little to no chance. Any girl, any time. But that's not how it works.

Style 5 - She comes to you

Typical game stuff, but you put yourself in a visible position, engage with folks, read the signs, and let the chick take you home. Bartender, dj, yoga instructor, personal trainer, professor, bouncer, artist, etc.

The effort is off you, because you are not interacting for chicks. All you need to notice is a linger.

That's how I see things.

Do this too long, and you'll just see all the sexual tells in a chick all the time.

Why are my boss's eyes fluttering like that?
My barista takes extra care of my iced mocha.

Etc

WIA

(11-17-2016 05:53 PM)rudebwoy Wrote:  Are you guys seeing that many decent looking girls on a daily basis?

I might have to move.

At lunch, I'll see at least three cute girls, but how do you instadate when you've both got 2 pm deadlines.

Happy hour? Depends on the venue.

Problem is the four best looking chicks are in one crew, lol. If you can't get it to pop, time to change venues!

(11-17-2016 05:53 PM)rudebwoy Wrote:  Are you guys seeing that many decent looking girls on a daily basis?

I might have to move.

Yes, I do. I went to purchase a new headset from BestBuy the other day and saw a black lizard behind the counter. I was in a rush but I felt like it was a missed opportunity to holla something at her.

A few months ago, I sent some money to 9ja and I saw a Haitian lizard behind the counter. I hollared at her in French for a bit but at the end she refused to give me the connection details. My point is, yes, they are here and as MDP said, when we get used to just popping shyt with everyone, then opening a lizard (which is just being social) won't even seem like work. As we discussed on one of our pods, energy levels has a lot to do with one being an elite playa.

A combination of social awareness and screening right? Keeping your options varied and open, then escalating with the appropriate target.

I currently loathe the high risk investment strategy. This backfired on me when I was in Moscow and I likely missed out on easy bangs. Not to say it can't be effective, but it's difficult for me to maintain interest for that long. Better to disappear for a while and bump into her again by chance later on in the night.

Brute force/numbers game use to be my thing; requires high energy which can be exhausting. It's a little more refined now.

(11-17-2016 07:05 PM)crudeloyalist Wrote:  A combination of social awareness and screening right? Keeping your options varied and open, then escalating with the appropriate target.

I currently loathe the high risk investment strategy. This backfired on me when I was in Moscow and I likely missed out on easy bangs. Not to say it can't be effective, but it's difficult for me to maintain interest for that long. Better to disappear for a while and bump into her again by chance later on in the night.

Brute force/numbers game use to be my thing; requires high energy which can be exhausting. It's a little more refined now.

The energy thing
The desire thing
Return on investment...

You have to rewire your brain somewhat to just enjoy the chicks for what they are. Rather than what you want them to be, to aspire to.

WIA

As in adjusting expectations? I can do that, mine are low. I've been thinking recently, I need to go back to basics. How would one go about rewiring ones brain?

(11-17-2016 05:53 PM)rudebwoy Wrote:  Are you guys seeing that many decent looking girls on a daily basis?

I might have to move.

Some cities can make it seem like finding a needle in a haystack.

I live next to a new mall and see more women than I ever have
on a daily basis...

I would say that's at least 60% percent of your success...
Just being in the right place all the time...

...Then 20% percent having the energy and mindset
and that last critical 20% percent in how you interact
with women..the playfulness, humor and confidence etc.

Not to derail, but I have a question and am not sure where to get good info. I tried the search function but nothing came up in the first few pages. So here goes...

I'd like to know about barber shops, specifically about beard trimming.

I met the owner of one that is opening shortly as I was out working today. His location would be very convenient for me. As we were talking, I asked if they would be ok with me coming in, and he seemed very cool about it. Sounded like this would be a much better solution than the chick that does my haircut. I don't trust her not to fuck it up.

It's mainly about his location, but also I like supporting local businesses.

I'm probably going to give it a shot either way, just curious if there is anything that I should know in advance. I get that there are differences in head hair, but beards are pretty much the same... I think?

In case it's not 100% obvious, I am white. I'm just looking for someone that does quality work without having to go to some gay dude at an expensive uptown place.

Thanks in advance for the help. Feel free to PM me if this is a distraction.

Gustav, are you asking if it's okay as a white guy to go to a black barber to trim your beard and possibly the hair on your head? Okay as in, will he know how to handle it?

Yeah that's basically my question, more about the typical services that are offered and utilized at barber shops. I've never been to a true barber shop of any sort in my life. We have all these mainstream corporate places filled with girls just out of hair cutting school.

I see a lot of black guys around and their beards look well maintained. Is it common to have your barber do it or are these guys doing it themselves? Most white guys beards that are longer/fuller look poorly shaped to their face. I assume they are doing it on their own.

I'm not asking if it's "OK to be there", or anything related to that. It is going to be mainly black customers, but only because of the location and community they serve. A large percentage of my business is conducted with small business owners in the area, including the store next door.

It just seems like it would be a good option to go here if it's a service they do for a lot of their customers and the differences between types of beards is minimal. But I don't know these things, so I'm going to my best resource for a straight answer.

Please let me know if I'm being unclear.

Damn I got too involved in the politics board of the forum for a while. It's good to be back posting in the best section again. Anyways.

(11-17-2016 06:44 PM)Moma Wrote:  As we discussed on one of our pods, energy levels has a lot to do with one being an elite playa.

This right here folks.

I wouldn't necessarily say even that it's energy levels really, but more of minimizing the amount of energy spent in any interaction. Gaming should be like smiling. Takes little energy to do but gets the message/mood across.

The vibe a man gives off to a chick to me is still the most important part of gaming a chick even more so than anything that is there to say to her. Over-eagerness or neediness can be felt even if the guy isn't talking that much in the interaction. Which is why talking to strangers for conversational purposes to make yourself more social, though a great way to learn wordplay and a bit of oratory, is still no excuse from actually knocking out approaches.

Gustavia, you can go in. Black barbers can handle any type of hair. Maybe take a pic of a celebrity that you fancy styling your hair/beard after and they will make it happen for you.