Also, I agree that ukrainian girls are demanding and actually that's the main reason why most marriages in Ukraine ends up in divorces.
Despite the stereotypes it's not because all the men there are alcholics or beat them up, maybe that was true 30 years ago but not anymore.
Most of the time the man simply gets tired about the woman and her constant demands. Most girls in Ukraine have university's degree but as soon as they get a child they want to stay home and spend time with her kids.
But she wants the man to provide for her and the kids and take them to expensive vacations, she wants good clothes, a good apartment ecc....all this despite the fact the poor guy isn't making lots of money (it's Ukraine after all). And in return she offers pretty much nothing (just sex).
After her beauty start to fade the guy gets tired and a divorce ensues.

Ukrainian girls aren't saints and actually that's the reason why I would never consider a serious LTR with one of them, too much of a cultural difference. They're good for mini relationships and quick sex

Only 1 week since the visa-free travel agreement with EU, a gay pride parade was held in Kiev today. "PROGRESSIVE-ING" quite fast !

^ Depressing.

#TakeBackTheRainbow

(06-18-2017 10:38 AM)StepUp Wrote:  Ukrainian girls aren't saints and actually that's the reason why I would never consider a serious LTR with one of them, too much of a cultural difference. They're good for mini relationships and quick sex

I knew a guy obsessed with Ukrainian girls, that finally brought a 7.5 in London. After a few months of living together, one day he returned home from work and the Ukrainian girl had disappeared with 30k savings he kept home. He never saw her again.

(06-18-2017 05:38 PM)apolis Wrote:  

(06-18-2017 10:38 AM)StepUp Wrote:  Ukrainian girls aren't saints and actually that's the reason why I would never consider a serious LTR with one of them, too much of a cultural difference. They're good for mini relationships and quick sex

I knew a guy obsessed with Ukrainian girls, that finally brought a 7.5 in London. After a few months of living together, one day he returned home from work and the Ukrainian girl had disappeared with 30k savings he kept home. He never saw her again.

And there was this guy who was murdered by his Mrs, a former Ukrainian stripper.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-...bride.html

As the old adage goes, you can't turn a hoe into a housewife

(06-18-2017 05:38 PM)apolis Wrote:  I knew a guy obsessed with Ukrainian girls, that finally brought a 7.5 in London. After a few months of living together, one day he returned home from work and the Ukrainian girl had disappeared with 30k savings he kept home. He never saw her again.

"Cool story bro", as they say on the webs. 30,000 GBP [at] home, in cash, huh? And he leaves it available to her? No safe? Tells her about it after just a 'few months'? And she disappeared into the aether as well, like wonderwoman crossed with James Bond! Not even a courtesy email when she got back to her lover in OdYEssa.

You should produce a movie about this, you could make a fortune and give the 'guy' you knew back some money.

Ooo hey did the bride look like Nicole Kidman by any chance?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Birthday_Girl

@Scrambled

It did happen. Don't wanna go into detail on a public forum. As you know life is the best scriptwriter.

The thirstiness of Turks is really on another level. I went out with this sexy 19 year old (no bang) a few times and yesterday she showed me 100s of unsolicted instagram messages of Turks trying to fly her Istanbul. Apparently she's already been there and the guys follow her everywhere she goes begging for that pussy. Then they fly to Kyiv and roam in the streets in packs of 5-10 guys, filling up the brothels and strip clubs. All they know is provider game.

^ Always in packs, unimpressive clothes, beards, filling up the strip clubs.

I’ve already written about rent prices in Kiev but I need to vent again. I know that most people here won't care because as long as it's cheaper than London, NYC or Zurich is fine, but for me is unacceptable.
The landlords on Aribnb in Kiev are all shameless scammers, I’ve never seen anything like that anywhere in the world.

Despite the city being a total shithole and the average person making 200€ per month, they have the courage to ask for a MODERN one bedroom apartment (studio) from 1200€ to well over 2000€ per month. Even in the outskirts of the city for a modern apartment is still around 1000€ per month (for the most part).

You can only find lower prices for ugly apartment with soviet furniture. I don’t even know where they find the courage to list these ridiculous prices.
I spoke with a girl that live in Kiev and she told me that for a new, modern studio in a super center location a local resident spend around 15,000-18,000, so around 500€ per month.

It’s insane how they ask 1000€ per month more than market prices on average (you have to put that in context...it's 5 whole local salaries…so the equivalent of around 10,000€ PER MONTH above market prices in the West).

Even if I ask for a 50% discount (which would piss off many of them) I’d still end up the one getting scammed and scammed big. Unbelievable. You simply can’t win against these fraudsters, they play in another league.

I was also searching in Moscow (which is way richer than Kiev) and after haggling with some landlords I managed to find a girl that agreed to rent me a modern one bedroom apartment right in the city center (Arbat) for just 1000€ per month, so way less than in Kiev.
I’m tempted to accept it but I’ve already booked my flight to Kiev and I’d need a visa to go to Moscow

But that is telling on how bad the people in Kiev can be….they totally deserve to live in that shithole. Corrupt and scammers to the core.

Oh god, here he goes again!

I bet you throw a hissy fit at Puzhata Hata when they only give you one dollop of cream in your Borscht!

Well you have already suggested some Airbnb alternatives. Remember it's not like Poland or somewhere where they have Gumtree and lots of short-term rentals. It's Ukraine, an ex-soviet backwater that most people don't even want visit at all, never mind spend a month there.

Good options I have found in other cities are apartment-hotels, condo style, they will make a monthly deal with you. At this time of year it will be pretty easy as Kiev is starting to empty out. Or you can sign up for a language course and say "Hey, I really need you to help me out with accommodation or it's a no go"

Also, message these guys on OLX(in Russian) as it's dead at this time of year, many will probably agree to a short term let.

Saying that I know only too well what's it's like dealing with the Ukrops over accommodation, they have some weird sense of pride that they would prefer an apartment to sit empty rather than give a 10% discount

(06-19-2017 04:23 PM)Wander Wrote:  Oh god, here he goes again!

I bet you throw a hissy fit at Puzhata Hata when they only give you one dollop of cream in your Borscht!

Well you have already suggested some Airbnb alternatives. Remember it's not like Poland or somewhere where they have Gumtree and lots of short-term rentals. It's Ukraine, an ex-soviet backwater that most people don't even want visit at all, never mind spend a month there.

Good options I have found in other cities are apartment-hotels, condo style, they will make a monthly deal with you. At this time of year it will be pretty easy as Kiev is starting to empty out. Or you can sign up for a language course and say "Hey, I really need you to help me out with accommodation or it's a no go"

Also, message these guys on OLX(in Russian) as it's dead at this time of year, many will probably agree to a short term let.

Saying that I know only too well what's it's like dealing with the Ukrops over accommodation, they have some weird sense of pride that they would prefer an apartment to sit empty rather than give a 10% discount

Yeah, I'll have to check other websites!
This one also look good:
http://100realty.ua/uk/realty_search/apa...extended=0

but you have to speak with an agent (they probably don't speak english) and you have to pay half the cost of the monthly rent to the agent as a commission...it would be perfect for long term stay, but not that good for medium term stays (1-3 months)

I'm also ok getting scammed a little bit (ie pay foreigner prices), paying 600-700€ is fine for a cool apartment, but not more than that.
Ukrainians in the facebook group I posted want good apartments for 100-150€ (modern apartments they ask in good locations), so WTF....600-700 is the most I can morally accept to get scammed

1500€ per month in that shithole of Kiev means getting brutally anally raped scammed and I'd lose my self respect

(06-19-2017 03:53 PM)StepUp Wrote:  I’ve already written about rent prices in Kiev but I need to vent again. I know that most people here won't care because as long as it's cheaper than London, NYC or Zurich is fine, but for me is unacceptable.
The landlords on Aribnb in Kiev are all shameless scammers, I’ve never seen anything like that anywhere in the world.

Despite the city being a total shithole and the average person making 200€ per month, they have the courage to ask for a MODERN one bedroom apartment (studio) from 1200€ to well over 2000€ per month. Even in the outskirts of the city for a modern apartment is still around 1000€ per month (for the most part).

You can only find lower prices for ugly apartment with soviet furniture. I don’t even know where they find the courage to list these ridiculous prices.
I spoke with a girl that live in Kiev and she told me that for a new, modern studio in a super center location a local resident spend around 15,000-18,000, so around 500€ per month.

It’s insane how they ask 1000€ per month more than market prices on average (you have to put that in context...it's 5 whole local salaries…so the equivalent of around 10,000€ PER MONTH above market prices in the West).

Even if I ask for a 50% discount (which would piss off many of them) I’d still end up the one getting scammed and scammed big. Unbelievable. You simply can’t win against these fraudsters, they play in another league.

I was also searching in Moscow (which is way richer than Kiev) and after haggling with some landlords I managed to find a girl that agreed to rent me a modern one bedroom apartment right in the city center (Arbat) for just 1000€ per month, so way less than in Kiev.
I’m tempted to accept it but I’ve already booked my flight to Kiev and I’d need a visa to go to Moscow

But that is telling on how bad the people in Kiev can be….they totally deserve to live in that shithole. Corrupt and scammers to the core.

It's completely out of line to accuse people of being scammers because they are aggressively pricing their product. If there's truly a massive gap in the market, someone will probably eventually step in and fill it. I've traveled a lot and it's totally standard for Airbnb apartments to cost more than 100% the long term monthly rate and even more in places with seasonal demand, less participants/competition, or anti Airbnb legislation. A Ukranian is smart to jack up the price of a rental during the warmer months because it's more likely to sit empty in the winter. If you don't book way in advance in a newer/smaller market, guess which options are going to sitting at the bottom of the barrel for you...you got it, the overpriced ones with shitty furniture.

Airbnb didn't even exist before 2008 and you're already spoiled enough to take it for granted in all corners of the globe. The third world is naturally the latest to adopt and gain efficiency with these types of services. The beauty of the system is that if these Ukranian Airbnb owners are actually scammers they will likely be expunged from the community or at least punished in their reviews.

Cliff notes: Airbnb isn't perfectly efficient especially in a lot of third world markets, especially for last minute bookings during the on season, so stop being a spoiled princess.

(06-19-2017 05:20 PM)jcardial Wrote:  

(06-19-2017 03:53 PM)StepUp Wrote:  I’ve already written about rent prices in Kiev but I need to vent again. I know that most people here won't care because as long as it's cheaper than London, NYC or Zurich is fine, but for me is unacceptable.
The landlords on Aribnb in Kiev are all shameless scammers, I’ve never seen anything like that anywhere in the world.

Despite the city being a total shithole and the average person making 200€ per month, they have the courage to ask for a MODERN one bedroom apartment (studio) from 1200€ to well over 2000€ per month. Even in the outskirts of the city for a modern apartment is still around 1000€ per month (for the most part).

You can only find lower prices for ugly apartment with soviet furniture. I don’t even know where they find the courage to list these ridiculous prices.
I spoke with a girl that live in Kiev and she told me that for a new, modern studio in a super center location a local resident spend around 15,000-18,000, so around 500€ per month.

It’s insane how they ask 1000€ per month more than market prices on average (you have to put that in context...it's 5 whole local salaries…so the equivalent of around 10,000€ PER MONTH above market prices in the West).

Even if I ask for a 50% discount (which would piss off many of them) I’d still end up the one getting scammed and scammed big. Unbelievable. You simply can’t win against these fraudsters, they play in another league.

I was also searching in Moscow (which is way richer than Kiev) and after haggling with some landlords I managed to find a girl that agreed to rent me a modern one bedroom apartment right in the city center (Arbat) for just 1000€ per month, so way less than in Kiev.
I’m tempted to accept it but I’ve already booked my flight to Kiev and I’d need a visa to go to Moscow

But that is telling on how bad the people in Kiev can be….they totally deserve to live in that shithole. Corrupt and scammers to the core.

It's completely out of line to accuse people of being scammers because they are aggressively pricing their product. If there's truly a massive gap in the market, someone will probably eventually step in and fill it. I've traveled a lot and it's totally standard for Airbnb apartments to cost more than 100% the long term monthly rate and even more in places with seasonal demand, less participants/competition, or anti Airbnb legislation. A Ukranian is smart to jack up the price of a rental during the warmer months because it's more likely to sit empty in the winter. If you don't book way in advance in a newer/smaller market, guess which options are going to sitting at the bottom of the barrel for you...you got it, the overpriced ones with shitty furniture.

Airbnb didn't even exist before 2008 and you're already spoiled enough to take it for granted in all corners of the globe. The third world is naturally the latest to adopt and gain efficiency with these types of services. The beauty of the system is that if these Ukranian Airbnb owners are actually scammers they will likely be expunged from the community or at least punished in their reviews.

Cliff notes: Airbnb isn't perfectly efficient especially in a lot of third world markets, especially for last minute bookings during the on season, so stop being a spoiled princess.

I searched for apartment in October/November when I'll be there, not in the summer but I don't think it changes much

The problem is that most foreigners don't care about paying those prices because, as I said, if they come from London, Zurich, NYC ecc, as long as it's cheaper than their city is fine for them. And most of them are totally unaware of real market prices in Ukraine so they're easy targets.

If they accept to pay those outrageous prices eventually they're gonna ruin the place. That's actually how good places turn into shitty places. I'm not saying Ukraine is bad, it's still the best for girls in my opinion (or almost the best), but thanks to them paying those prices accommodation prices there turned to shit (compared to how they should be given their economic situation)

It's the same how the hot semi pro gets spoiled after foreigners pay them luxury 5star hotels vacations, expensive clothes, expensive dinners at restaurants, and sometimes even cars and apartments.
We can deny it as much as we want, but all this mass influx of sex tourists are damaging Ukraine (that's the real problem, not the visa free travel for them)....I honestly think Russia may be best because of that, sounds crazy but the ones I met (hot ones) were less spoiled than the hot ukrainians.
Pretty much like how I found cheaper apartment in Russia than in Kiev....crazy but true...foreigner effect

(06-19-2017 03:53 PM)StepUp Wrote:  I’ve already booked my flight to Kiev and I’d need a visa to go to Moscow

But that is telling on how bad the people in Kiev can be….they totally deserve to live in that shithole. Corrupt and scammers to the core.

Yet you're still coming... what does that say about you?

If the apartment goes for 500 on a long term lease, and lets assume they make x% yield on that, then doesnt it make sense that it would go for 2-3 times that much for airbnb considering it will only be occupied a way smaller percentage of the time?

(06-19-2017 05:37 PM)NomadofEU Wrote:  

(06-19-2017 03:53 PM)StepUp Wrote:  I’ve already booked my flight to Kiev and I’d need a visa to go to Moscow

But that is telling on how bad the people in Kiev can be….they totally deserve to live in that shithole. Corrupt and scammers to the core.

Yet you're still coming... what does that say about you?

True, I keep coming because of the girls...but if rent prices go up too much (getting equal to what you can find in Russia) there isn't anymore benefits to choose Ukraine over Russia considering all the downsides of ukraine

I don’t want to offend anybody but living in Ukraine isn’t easy at all, it’s the biggest shithole and most depressive country I’ve ever been to, it’s not just one thing…it’s more things that compound themselves: the ugly, run down city, the shitty weather, the sex tourists, the corruption, the feeling you’re always getting scammed, the lack of western amenities, the terrible services you get etc….eventually all adds up…if it wasn’t for the girls nobody would be there
Even the girls I meet tell me all this, they all tell me why I travel to Ukraine and how bad the country is….I never had the courage to agree with them in their face, most of them are sweethearts and I feel for them

But, considering all this, you at least would expect to pay cheap prices to live in such a (poor) shithole and for the most part is true, because Kiev is very cheap…except the accommodation. That was my point

If Russia didn’t have a visa policy I’d choose Moscow and Piter over Ukraine without even thinking twice. Better cities, better standard of living, no sex tourists, better receptions (at least for me since they clearly have a fetish for italian guys over there), much better nightlife in Moscow than Kiev, more classy girls etc…

That’s why I’m still undecided

Anyway, I didn’t want to arise any polemic, mine was just a pacific attempt to raise a point to the thing I like the least about Ukraine

(06-19-2017 05:54 PM)Beirut Wrote:  If the apartment goes for 500 on a long term lease, and lets assume they make x% yield on that, then doesnt it make sense that it would go for 2-3 times that much for airbnb considering it will only be occupied a way smaller percentage of the time?

It's not a long term lease though, you can rent for 500€ even for 1 month (minimum stay) but you have to pay a commission to the agent (half the monthly rent price) so it's not really worth it for just one month

The prices on Airbnb on Kiev are definitely exaggerated but not just on Airbnb...everybody try to scam for accommodation in Kiev, there are lots of sex tourists (western) that are willing to pay western prices, so the various people working in the real estate sector there buy apartments at local prices (super cheap...less than 100,000€, sometimes even less than 50,000€) and then they rent them at western prices....very easy way to make quick and lots of money for them. And they're all colluded with each other not to rent to foreigners at normal prices, so they all make money. A bit like the taxis you find on the streets in Ukraine, all colluded with each other not to take you if you don't pay the outrageous price they ask. It's a classic in Ukraine. But at least with the taxis you can easily avoid it, just get uber, uklon or call a taxi company...for accommodation it's not that easy

The foreigner companies (the ones with english ads) are the worst...they arrive to quote totally normal apartments for 6000$+ per month, I swear I saw them.....you can rent a mansion in the hollywood hills for that price

I'm paying $650 for a nice enough studio in the center with a good view. Airbnb guy. Full kitchen (gas stove), AC, big modern TV, balcony, excellent flushing toilet, quiet, free toilet paper.

(06-19-2017 06:31 PM)Cambodian Creamsicle Wrote:  I'm paying $650 for a nice enough studio in the center with a good view. Airbnb guy. Full kitchen (gas stove), AC, big modern TV, balcony, excellent flushing toilet, quiet, free toilet paper.

if the apartment is modern you're lucky then, you found one of the rare honest person in Kiev for accommodation....I only found one of them as of now
All the others quoted me crazy prices...even more than 2,000€

These are just some examples, of course there are cheaper ones but they often aren't modern:

https://www.airbnb.com/rooms/6516254?loc...s=wkWnMwnF
https://www.airbnb.com/rooms/17707006?lo...s=wkWnMwnF
https://www.airbnb.com/rooms/52676?locat...s=aKKtZ-uH
https://www.airbnb.com/rooms/7617048?loc...s=aKKtZ-uH
https://www.airbnb.com/rooms/13245791?lo...s=pHrKTsyd
https://www.airbnb.com/rooms/14646645?lo...s=sjb3Jtgv
https://www.airbnb.com/rooms/12297021?lo...s=sjb3Jtgv
https://www.airbnb.com/rooms/17736366?lo...s=sjb3Jtgv
https://www.airbnb.com/rooms/16678701?lo...s=sjb3Jtgv
https://www.airbnb.com/rooms/17052147?lo...s=sjb3Jtgv
https://www.airbnb.com/rooms/15656449?lo...s=sjb3Jtgv
https://www.airbnb.com/rooms/16868873?lo...s=sjb3Jtgv
https://www.airbnb.com/rooms/16109364?lo...s=sjb3Jtgv
https://www.airbnb.com/rooms/11546292?lo...s=SqoOPXFI
https://www.airbnb.com/rooms/16670499?lo...s=SqoOPXFI
https://www.airbnb.com/rooms/7214331?loc...s=SqoOPXFI
https://www.airbnb.com/rooms/561147?loca...s=sjb3Jtgv
https://www.airbnb.com/rooms/12296903?lo...s=sjb3Jtgv
https://www.airbnb.com/rooms/17529560?lo...s=n0K1BIZX
https://www.airbnb.com/rooms/11775988?lo...s=n0K1BIZX
https://www.airbnb.com/rooms/18195621?lo...s=n0K1BIZX
https://www.airbnb.com/rooms/7689155?loc...s=n0K1BIZX
https://www.airbnb.com/rooms/18995543?lo...s=n0K1BIZX
https://www.airbnb.com/rooms/11634760?lo...s=4GBXT4oj
https://www.airbnb.com/rooms/16278146?lo...s=a46BCqhX
https://www.airbnb.com/rooms/13810423?lo...s=3Lu1qYNf

ecc ecc

I'm calling out StepUP as a member of the Ukrainian Anti-Tourist Board lol

oops sorry

(06-19-2017 05:27 PM)StepUp Wrote:  

(06-19-2017 05:20 PM)jcardial Wrote:  

(06-19-2017 03:53 PM)StepUp Wrote:  I’ve already written about rent prices in Kiev but I need to vent again. I know that most people here won't care because as long as it's cheaper than London, NYC or Zurich is fine, but for me is unacceptable.
The landlords on Aribnb in Kiev are all shameless scammers, I’ve never seen anything like that anywhere in the world.

Despite the city being a total shithole and the average person making 200€ per month, they have the courage to ask for a MODERN one bedroom apartment (studio) from 1200€ to well over 2000€ per month. Even in the outskirts of the city for a modern apartment is still around 1000€ per month (for the most part).

You can only find lower prices for ugly apartment with soviet furniture. I don’t even know where they find the courage to list these ridiculous prices.
I spoke with a girl that live in Kiev and she told me that for a new, modern studio in a super center location a local resident spend around 15,000-18,000, so around 500€ per month.

It’s insane how they ask 1000€ per month more than market prices on average (you have to put that in context...it's 5 whole local salaries…so the equivalent of around 10,000€ PER MONTH above market prices in the West).

Even if I ask for a 50% discount (which would piss off many of them) I’d still end up the one getting scammed and scammed big. Unbelievable. You simply can’t win against these fraudsters, they play in another league.

I was also searching in Moscow (which is way richer than Kiev) and after haggling with some landlords I managed to find a girl that agreed to rent me a modern one bedroom apartment right in the city center (Arbat) for just 1000€ per month, so way less than in Kiev.
I’m tempted to accept it but I’ve already booked my flight to Kiev and I’d need a visa to go to Moscow

But that is telling on how bad the people in Kiev can be….they totally deserve to live in that shithole. Corrupt and scammers to the core.

It's completely out of line to accuse people of being scammers because they are aggressively pricing their product. If there's truly a massive gap in the market, someone will probably eventually step in and fill it. I've traveled a lot and it's totally standard for Airbnb apartments to cost more than 100% the long term monthly rate and even more in places with seasonal demand, less participants/competition, or anti Airbnb legislation. A Ukranian is smart to jack up the price of a rental during the warmer months because it's more likely to sit empty in the winter. If you don't book way in advance in a newer/smaller market, guess which options are going to sitting at the bottom of the barrel for you...you got it, the overpriced ones with shitty furniture.

Airbnb didn't even exist before 2008 and you're already spoiled enough to take it for granted in all corners of the globe. The third world is naturally the latest to adopt and gain efficiency with these types of services. The beauty of the system is that if these Ukranian Airbnb owners are actually scammers they will likely be expunged from the community or at least punished in their reviews.

Cliff notes: Airbnb isn't perfectly efficient especially in a lot of third world markets, especially for last minute bookings during the on season, so stop being a spoiled princess.

I searched for apartment in October/November when I'll be there, not in the summer but I don't think it changes much

The problem is that most foreigners don't care about paying those prices because, as I said, if they come from London, Zurich, NYC ecc, as long as it's cheaper than their city is fine for them. And most of them are totally unaware of real market prices in Ukraine so they're easy targets.

If they accept to pay those outrageous prices eventually they're gonna ruin the place. That's actually how good places turn into shitty places. I'm not saying Ukraine is bad, it's still the best for girls in my opinion (or almost the best), but thanks to them paying those prices accommodation prices there turned to shit (compared to how they should be given their economic situation)

It's the same how the hot semi pro gets spoiled after foreigners pay them luxury 5star hotels vacations, expensive clothes, expensive dinners at restaurants, and sometimes even cars and apartments.
We can deny it as much as we want, but all this mass influx of sex tourists are damaging Ukraine (that's the real problem, not the visa free travel for them)....I honestly think Russia may be best because of that, sounds crazy but the ones I met (hot ones) were less spoiled than the hot ukrainians.
Pretty much like how I found cheaper apartment in Russia than in Kiev....crazy but true...foreigner effect

Now you've completely shifted the blame from it being the scummy unethical Ukranian land lords to the whale tourists willing to pay anything and I would agree that the latter is more likely to blame. Your collusion explanation is flimsy because they wouldn't need to collude if there is an abundance of fat wallet foreigners flooding the market.

There's no need to fabricate imaginary Ukranian villains here though in any city there are going to be shady real estate people and that's another reason any sane person would rather pay extra for the decreased hassle and added security of Airbnb. If big money is in fact being thrown at Airbnb in Kiev it will foster more competition as more players enter the market.

(06-19-2017 06:13 PM)StepUp Wrote:  , the sex tourists,

You mean the Turks? Or fat American CEO types? Or young players like forum dudes? Or RSD spammers?

Are there that many? Are they affecting your results? In a week of Lvov I noticed only 3 turks and one US Boomer/Potbelly guy.