Post: #276

Do you think there is any power in Pacquiao's double punch? Looks a bit lame to me.

Post: #277

(05-31-2014 05:29 PM)Cyr Wrote:  Did anyone watch Froch vs Groves?

I saw it, and thought it was pretty good but it felt a little anticlimactic. Just as it was heating up and starting to open up, Froch knocked out Groves with a lucky punch. I wish it had gone on for a few more rounds.

Luck had nothing to do with it. Froch threw a beautifully placed right that flattened Groves. As a power puncher his intentions were to knock Groves out and that's what he did. You could just as easily say that Groves was lucky to have avoided those shots for the first 7 1/2 rounds of the fight.

Post: #278

(06-01-2014 02:39 PM)Katatonic Wrote:  

(05-31-2014 05:29 PM)Cyr Wrote:  Did anyone watch Froch vs Groves?

I saw it, and thought it was pretty good but it felt a little anticlimactic. Just as it was heating up and starting to open up, Froch knocked out Groves with a lucky punch. I wish it had gone on for a few more rounds.

Luck had nothing to do with it. Froch threw a beautifully placed right that flattened Groves. As a power puncher his intentions were to knock Groves out and that's what he did. You could just as easily say that Groves was lucky to have avoided those shots for the first 7 1/2 rounds of the fight.

Luck might have been the wrong word, but it was certainly 'unlucky' for Groves. He just made a mistake, dropped his hands and threw a left hook, (Froch hit him with the right first), and then instinctively turned away from the punch, exposing his temple and jaw. I don't know if he would have been knocked out if he hadn't turned away from the punch, and he certainly wouldn't have been if he had been watching for the right. I don't even think he was that tired either.

Post: #279

Full Froch vs Groves fight, knockout comes just before 48 mins:

Post: #280

I never realised stepping on your opponent's feet was an illegal tactic that boxers use.

Seems a very sneaky way of stopping your opponent from avoiding a punch.

Marquez did it a lot in the fight where he KO'd Pacquiao.





In the minute before the KO you see Marquez do this at the following moments:

0:13, 0:17, 0:48 and 1:18 (when the KO takes place).

Post: #281

(05-18-2014 09:38 AM)Belize King Wrote:  



Nasty. Martinez calls Cotto a diva haha. Cotto is the bigger name and draw plus they are fighting in New York. Martinez has a valid point that Cotto isnt an "A" fighter but even though Martinez is a linear champ, he hasnt fought near the quality of fighters Cotto has. It's going to be an interesting fight. Havent heard from Meng and G is out of pocket but I wonder what their take is on it.

The most likely result is Martinez by late round stoppage, but I'm in no way confident enough to jump on a plane and place a bet on anyone in this fight. My concern is not Martinez's knee, his left hand, or his age (age really means very little, especially in this day and age and for a guy as athletic as Martinez). My concern is that in the Martin Murray fight, he threw far fewer punches than he had in other fights, such as the Chavez fight. The reason Martinez wins fights, aside from lucky punches like he landed on Paul Williams, is that he is a high volume puncher who frustrates opponents with a pretty unorthodox southpaw style. He is not a very accurate puncher and needs to really let his hands go to be able to land 200 or more punches in a fight. Martin Murray, who was his last opponent, is very underrated and is possibly the best pound for pound defensive fighter except for Mayweather. Murray cannot presently enter the United States legally and therefore nobody really knew who he was before he fought Martinez. Martinez seriously struggled against him because a) Murray is really tough to hit and b) Martinez through few punches. The best indication of future performance is past performance. If Martinez fights the way he fought against Murray, Cotto could take this one.

Side note:
What the hell happened to Cardguy?

Post: #282

I can't believe what I just saw.

I couldn't help but feel sorry for Sergio. He was damn near in tears in the corner after the first round. One punch cold, knee gave out, fucked up the whole fight.

Credit to Cotto of course. The future is bright. Out of Canelo, Mayweather, and Golovkin, I think he should fight Mayweather next. Cotto will likely NEVER approach this high again... Mayweather would be a dumbass to let this opportunity go by. Or Cotto for that matter.

Freddie Roach is a savant.

Post: #283

(06-07-2014 11:54 PM)Rotisserie Wrote:  I can't believe what I just saw.

I couldn't help but feel sorry for Sergio. He was damn near in tears in the corner after the first round. One punch cold, knee gave out, fucked up the whole fight.

Credit to Cotto of course. The future is bright. Out of Canelo, Mayweather, and Golovkin, I think he should fight Mayweather next. Cotto will likely NEVER approach this high again... Mayweather would be a dumbass to let this opportunity go by. Or Cotto for that matter.

Freddie Roach is a savant.

It makes the most financial sense for both Mayweather and Cotto to fight each other this September. Neither one wants any part of Golovkin, both because of his ability and because he is not one of the two or three biggest draws in the sport. If Cotto-Mayweather doesn't happen, Cotto may end up fighting Alvarez in late 2014. I was really hoping that Martinez would stop Cotto, then fight Golovkin. In that case, the odds would have been very favorable to Golovkin and I'm almost 100% sure Golovkin would have won. I think we have seen the last of Martinez, but who knows.

Post: #284

Right. Golovkin gets left out in the cold after this fight, which is sad for him. He'll never get Cotto or Mayweather in the ring with him.

I'm pretty sure Martinez's knee was a problem during training camp, hence looking soft (couldn't get proper training) and the strange MRI request before the fight. Cotto saw blood in the water, and pounced on wounded prey. I really feel for Martinez... he was just shocked.

This was not a fair fight.

As for what's in store for Cotto, Mayweather is probably interested in that belt, plus the biggest pay day he can get outside of Pacquiao or Canelo. Will Cotto do any better against Mayweather? I think marginally, but still won't beat him.

Cotto would probably have a better shot against Canelo, but it's too risky and not as much money.

Post: #285

@ Cotto-Martinez: I feel sorry for individuals who PPV'ed that sorry excuse for a fight.

Post: #286

(06-08-2014 01:03 AM)Rotisserie Wrote:  Right. Golovkin gets left out in the cold after this fight, which is sad for him. He'll never get Cotto or Mayweather in the ring with him.

The two guys who always seem to get left in the cold are Golovkin and Peter Quillin. They should just fight each other. Now that Mayweather and Richard Schaefer have left Golden Boy, fights which were previously difficult to make may be able to be made. Golden Boy is supposedly going to do business with Top Rank again.

What do you guys think about the Golovkin-Geale fight? I'll be shocked if Golovkin doesn't win by knockout, but I don't really have a feeling as to what part of the fight it will happen in. The way to make money on that fight is to bet that the fight won't go 8 1/2 rounds or whatever number of rounds they set the odds. I'm sure it won't go 12 rounds, but not sure that it won't go 10 rounds. A 10th, 11th, or 12th round stoppage is possible, but not likely. Golovkin has only been past the 8th round once.

Post: #287

Gennady is an absolute beast... his punches are literally perfect. As for Geale, I haven't seen much of him, but I don't see him as any better than a guy like Macklin. Lost to Darren Barker, who got his ass beat by Martinez and Sturm. Again, I haven't seen Geale much, but I haven't seen anyone that can give Golovkin trouble... that guy is in rare form. We should be asking how he'd fair against Hearns, Hagler, etc.

Post: #288

(06-01-2014 01:19 PM)Kieran Wrote:  Terrence Crawford and Gamboa is the fight I'm most looking forward to. I expect big things from Crawford in the future, but not sure how this one will go for him.

I didn't expect Arum to put him in with someone of Gamboas level so quickly, but I imagine he is thinking of matching Mikey Garcia with the winner (I'd like Gamboa or Crawford in that one), and then the winner of that with Pacquiao (which would be interesting), so he needs to move quickly before Pacquiao retires.

Anyone watch this fight? Crawford impressed me yet again. Some writers in the boxing media have been downplaying it with Gamboa being a bit of a part-time fighter these days, but he's still one of the most dangerous lightweights around in my opinion. Looks like Crawford will be moving up to light welterweight shortly, and then hopefully it won't be long until Arum matches him with some of the bigger names.

Post: #289

(06-08-2014 01:20 AM)Merenguero Wrote:  What do you guys think about the Golovkin-Geale fight? I'll be shocked if Golovkin doesn't win by knockout, but I don't really have a feeling as to what part of the fight it will happen in. The way to make money on that fight is to bet that the fight won't go 8 1/2 rounds or whatever number of rounds they set the odds. I'm sure it won't go 12 rounds, but not sure that it won't go 10 rounds. A 10th, 11th, or 12th round stoppage is possible, but not likely. Golovkin has only been past the 8th round once.

Does anyone have an opinion as to what the odds will be on the over/under rounds in this fight? The odds on a straight bet will be ridiculous, probably something between -1200 and -2000. I'm about to book a flight so that I can place a bet three weeks from now, but I don't want to get there and find out that there are horrible odds. I would have no problem with the odds being -200 that the fight lasts under 8 1/2 rounds. In that case, I could bet $10, 000 and gross $5, 000.

Post: #290

(06-08-2014 01:19 AM)thirty-six Wrote:  @ Cotto-Martinez: I feel sorry for individuals who PPV'ed that sorry excuse for a fight.

Feel more sorry for me - paid up for floor seats! At least I got them at cost, not Stubhub prices.

I'm a huge Sergio fan and have been for years. But he was a spent fighter. Happened pretty quickly, too - like a ball falling off a table. His decline was really steep, really quickly. This was a very talented, athletic, scientific fighter. The comment above about a "lucky punch" against Paul Williams is unfair. He fought Williams twice, and fought him hard both times. The punch that put Williams to sleep was a textbook example of leverage and putting your weight behind your punches.

Sergio's decline reminds me of Roy Jones' decline: One day he's near the P4P top, and the next day he can't beat anyone. That's what happens to boxers who use athleticism to dominate their opponents, rather than punching power or technique: One day they wake up old, and it's gone. All gone.

Post: #291

Sergio was a great champion, he (unknowingly) helped me get out if debt, and I certainly meant no disrespect to him by making the "lucky punch" comment. That being said, Williams was known to have an iron chin and I don't believe he ever came close to being floored like that at any other point in his career. I have watched countless Sergio Martinez fights and I don't ever remember him scoring a one-punch knockout like that. He was great, but he was never Mike Tyson. If it wasn't lucky, I don't know why it was only a one-time occurrence. On a side note, the doctor who treated Paul Williams after he was floored by Sergio works at a hospital near the Jersey Shore that we call "Burdeath." Williams was really lucky he got out of there alive. One time, the summer after freshman year of high school, I broke some bones surfing, ended up in that shithole, and they didn't know what was going on.

Post: #292

(05-24-2014 11:40 AM)the chef Wrote:  anyone pumped for canelo/lara? gonna be a dope ass fight.

Canelo just pulled it out. I thought Lara won, albeit very ugly. That 117-111 scorecard for Canelo was an absolute joke. However, Lara was unwilling to put more than 3 punches together, and 3 were rare. He also neglected to trade with Canelo in any of his flurries.

Lara is a really difficult fighter. I feel bad for him. His style, and subsequent loss, will completely shut off any paydays for him. Looks like the most successful Cuban defector, unsurprisingly, is Rigondeaux... and he's getting shut out as well. Bad stretch for Cubans with Gamboa getting KTFO recently.

Post: #293

(07-13-2014 12:00 AM)Rotisserie Wrote:  

(05-24-2014 11:40 AM)the chef Wrote:  anyone pumped for canelo/lara? gonna be a dope ass fight.

Canelo just pulled it out. I thought Lara won, albeit very ugly. That 117-111 scorecard for Canelo was an absolute joke. However, Lara was unwilling to put more than 3 punches together, and 3 were rare. He also neglected to trade with Canelo in any of his flurries.

Lara is a really difficult fighter. I feel bad for him. His style, and subsequent loss, will completely shut off any paydays for him. Looks like the most successful Cuban defector, unsurprisingly, is Rigondeaux... and he's getting shut out as well. Bad stretch for Cubans with Gamboa getting KTFO recently.

Could've gone either way, and depends what you score more - aggressiveness or slickness. Punch count was nearly even in total, and close in most rounds, too. Not sure where 117-111 came from - as Paulie Mallinaggi says, it was a great fight, its too bad that judge didn't see it.

Lara and Rigo will struggle, unfairly, to get high $$$$ fights. Since the rise of MMA, it seems people only want to watch punchers. But a slick boxer, ala Sugar Ray Leonard or Ali, is a sight to behold.

Post: #294

(07-13-2014 12:00 AM)Rotisserie Wrote:  

(05-24-2014 11:40 AM)the chef Wrote:  anyone pumped for canelo/lara? gonna be a dope ass fight.

Canelo just pulled it out. I thought Lara won, albeit very ugly. That 117-111 scorecard for Canelo was an absolute joke. However, Lara was unwilling to put more than 3 punches together, and 3 were rare. He also neglected to trade with Canelo in any of his flurries.

Lara is a really difficult fighter. I feel bad for him. His style, and subsequent loss, will completely shut off any paydays for him. Looks like the most successful Cuban defector, unsurprisingly, is Rigondeaux... and he's getting shut out as well. Bad stretch for Cubans with Gamboa getting KTFO recently.

To get a decision win over Mayweather or Alvarez, especially in Las Vegas, you have to really convincingly beat them. Lara did pretty well, but the fight was way too close. The only reason I can see for Alvarez to give him a rematch would be to remove all doubt that he won. That's not really a good reason. Lara, like most Cuban athletes, is not a big seller and he ran most of the fight. Runners make it difficult for punchers like Alvarez. Alvarez should look for Cotto or maybe even Mayweather next. Golovkin has a pretty good fan base, but he is far too dangerous.

Post: #295

(07-05-2014 09:49 PM)Merenguero Wrote:  I have watched countless Sergio Martinez fights and I don't ever remember him scoring a one-punch knockout like that. ... If it wasn't lucky, I don't know why it was only a one-time occurrence.

Darren Barker, Atlantic City. One punch to the head put him out cold, and busted an eardrum. You're right in that Sergio was no Mike Tyson - but that's a little like saying a home run hitter is no Babe Ruth. Not many guys hit like Tyson. Sergio scored his knockouts with technique, shifting his body and stepping past his opponent before a punch landed, so the full weight of his body was behind his punch. Sometimes he pulled it off, sometimes not. But before JC Jr., he knocked out a lot of solid guys in a row. After Chavez, he was ruined. The kid was just too big for Sergio at his age (nearly 40!).

Post: #296

(07-13-2014 12:29 AM)The Father Wrote:  Could've gone either way, and depends what you score more - aggressiveness or slickness.

I agree with that, it was close. I like Harold Lederman's simple explanation of how to score a round:

Quote:Say to yourself who did more damage in that round and give him 10 points and you'll be a great judge.

Or, put another way, 'who would you rather be at the end of that round.' Lara ran like a bitch, but Canelo didn't land anything of consequence, to the head at least, except that upper that cut Lara in the middle rounds. Lara certainly didn't throw enough, he was too scared... but truth is, he did pepper Canelo with the much cleaner punches, to the head, throughout the fight.

(07-13-2014 12:32 AM)Merenguero Wrote:  Alvarez should look for Cotto or maybe even Mayweather next. Golovkin has a pretty good fan base, but he is far too dangerous.

I'm a big Cotto supporter, but I don't think he'd have a chance against Canelo. Canelo is a bigger, faster, harder punching version of Margarito. He absolutely dominated Trout and pulled it out against an elite boxer in Lara, which I'm pretty sure Cotto at 154 wouldn't be able to do.

If Cotto pulled the upset though, hoo boy, that Mayweather rematch would be huge.

Post: #297

(07-13-2014 01:02 AM)Rotisserie Wrote:  I'm a big Cotto supporter, but I don't think he'd have a chance against Canelo. Canelo is a bigger, faster, harder punching version of Margarito. He absolutely dominated Trout and pulled it out against an elite boxer in Lara, which I'm pretty sure Cotto at 154 wouldn't be able to do.

If Cotto pulled the upset though, hoo boy, that Mayweather rematch would be huge.

Cotto is pretty smart and well-schooled now that Freddie Roach is in his corner...also, he's got much quicker hands than Canelo. Not saying he'd be the favorite, but he'd have a decent shot. Cotto wins, he fights Mayweather next at 154. Canelo wins, he might get a rematch w/ Mayweather...but he might also be gutsy enough to fight Golovkin at a catch weight, say, 158. Interesting fight!

Post: #298

(07-13-2014 01:07 AM)The Father Wrote:  Cotto is pretty smart and well-schooled now that Freddie Roach is in his corner...also, he's got much quicker hands than Canelo.

Mmm I wish I could believe that, but Freddie has made Cotto more offensively minded, even though he was a bit conservative against Sergio even after that blitzkrieg in the 1st round. Cotto needs to keep his defense up, and his stamina can't fail him as it often does... the fight with Canelo pretty much has to happen, but I don't like it one bit.

(07-13-2014 01:07 AM)The Father Wrote:  Canelo wins, he might get a rematch w/ Mayweather...but he might also be gutsy enough to fight Golovkin at a catch weight, say, 158. Interesting fight!

Canelo did have the guts to take on Lara, he's lucky to have eked it out. He just may be crazy enough to give Golovkin a shot. That would be a damn nice fight!

Post: #299

Thoughts on Andre Ward?

Kid seems to have a lot of potential, but he stays pretty low key in comparison to a lot of other fighters so I can see how it's harder to attract bigger crowds.

Post: #300

^^ Ward? Guy is obviously legit. He's dominated very single fight he's been in, similar to Roy Jones Jr. and Floyd in their prime. The magnitude of the super middleweight tourney Showtime held was unprecedented... Froch, Kessler, Abraham, Taylor, Dirrell, and Ward. At the time, Abraham and Kessler were seen as absolute beasts. Ward dominated them as a fresh-faced untested kid. He has 0 left to prove at 168, and would probably clean out light heavy as well.

Unfortunately, like RJ Jr, he's a victim of his time. We'll never see him tested in his prime, and thus it'll be difficult to rank him among the greats. The only guy I see testing him is Golovkin, but he may be too small, and not quick enough for SOG.

I like his style. He is methodical, but he does hit. His approach will afford him a longer career than most boxers, similar to Mayweather.