Yeah it seemed fairly one sided to me, especially given how Tapia had defensive issues with this fight:





There's also talk now of Lemieux vs Canelo which would be interesting.

I would obviously pick Canelo if it happened, but I would expect Lemieux to surprise some people in that fight with his power.

(03-18-2016 06:49 PM)LeBeau Wrote:  Yeah it seemed fairly one sided to me, especially given how Tapia had defensive issues with this fight:

I will say this. Two summers ago, I had a ticket to see Tapia fight at the Jersey Shore. I fell asleep on my couch a few hours before the fight, but still headed to Bally's, because I though I would see most of the fight. When I was trying to park, I saw all these people leaving Bally's with Tapia t-shirts. Tapia won by knockout in the first round and I missed the whole thing.

I like the way the Alvarez/Khan undercard is shaping up. Lemieux/Tapia, Gomez/Herrera, and Patrick Teixeira/Curtis Stevens. I think Pat Lynch (Arturo Gatti's manager) is still managing Tapia. He dealt with De La Hoya/Golden Boy before back when Gatti fought De La Hoya. I don't know who Gomez's manager is, but I wouldn't have recommended that he take the fight against Herrera. Herrera is high risk/low reward for anyone. Either Gomez will lose or he will win a controversial decision and/or look bad in winning. I'm hearing really good things about Teixeira, but he has mostly fought in Sao Paolo and I'm not sure how great the competition is there. We will be seeing multiple, or even many, knockouts on the May 7 card. I

ESPN just launched a ranking of the top 25 pound-for-pound fighters of the last 25 years, so counting the 90s onward. Here's the link

http://espn.go.com/boxing/story/_/id/149...s-25-years

The names, though:
25. Terry Norris
24. Gennady Golovkin
23. Winky Wright
22. Naseem Hamed
21. Miguel Cotto
20. Román González
19. Wladimir Klitschko
18. Erik Morales
17. Andre Ward
16. James Toney
15. Shane Mosley
14. Joe Calzaghe
13. Marco Antonio Barrera
12. Lennox Lewis
11. Tito Trinidad
10. Ricardo López
9. Juan Manuel Márquez
8. Pernell Whitaker
7. Evander Holyfield
6. Oscar de la Hoya
5 - 1...??

They're doing the 'release one name each day of the week' bullshit to milk the list. Who are your top 5, and in what order? I'm actually at a little bit of a loss as to the 5th name, because Bernard, Pac, RJJ and Floyd are obvious choices. Who's that 5th name I'm missing...? Chávez? My bad, of course it's Adrien Broner.

Also, I think it's bullshit they put Barrera at 13 and Morales at 18. Morales was a fucking warrior and should be ahead of him. Their trilogy in my eyes was a wash, but the win over Pacquiao was as legit as they come. It almost comes down to which win you value more, Hamed or Pacquiao. Not even a question.

^^^
I stopped reading when I saw Gennady was number 24. Whoever compiled that list is not good boy.

(04-02-2016 12:51 PM)Merenguero Wrote:  ^^^
I stopped reading when I saw Gennady was number 24. Whoever compiled that list is not good boy.

Where would you put him? His résumé isn't top 10 yet. But I guess I'd put him above Tito. So for me he'd be 11.

I just forgot. It's so damn unfair that Rigondeaux will never make the list even though he deserves to be top 5.

(04-02-2016 12:54 PM)Kamikaze Wrote:  

(04-02-2016 12:51 PM)Merenguero Wrote:  ^^^
I stopped reading when I saw Gennady was number 24. Whoever compiled that list is not good boy.

Where would you put him? His résumé isn't top 10 yet. But I guess I'd put him above Tito. So for me he'd be 11.

I just forgot. It's so damn unfair that Rigondeaux will never make the list even though he deserves to be top 5.

I think it would be tough to argue that the top two guys are not Mayweather and Chavez, Sr. You can debate all day about which is number one and which is number two, but I give Mayweather the top spot. If Chavez had a little more discipline outside of the ring and avoided drugs and other problems, he may have been better in the ring. A case can be made that either of those two guys deserves the top spot.

I put Andre Ward at number three. His resume isn't the greatest, but he has completely dominated the guys who have been put in front of him (The Froch fight was much more one-sided than the scorecards would lead one to believe).

I'm putting Golovkin at number four. He isn't as good overall as Ward and may not even be as good pound for pound. He's kind of on a similar career path as Ward as nobody wants to fight him. The difference is that Golovkin is building a pretty strong fan base. You can argue that he hasn't fought anybody, but he has done extremely well against the guys who he has fought.

5. Joe Calzaghe
You can say I'm crazy for this pick, but the guy was undefeated, had a good knockout percentage, and beat both Hopkins and Jones. You can say that both of those guys were way past their prime and that the Hopkins win was a controversial split decision, but he was the best fighter from the U.K. during the past twenty five years. It would be nice if he had fought Froch, Pavlik, and especially Andre Ward so we could be sure about how good (or bad) he really was.

6. Hopkins belongs right behind Calzaghe. He had an incredible run as middleweight champion and remained a contender well into his fifties. The problem is that since he hung around for so long, he ended up losing to guys like Chad Dawson and Jermain Taylor and being completely destroyed by Kovalev.

De La Hoya belongs somewhere on that list, but doesn't belong anywhere number six. Almost every time he fought an elite fighter, he lost and sometimes was humiliated (Pacquiao and to a lesser extent, Hopkins).

James Toney doesn't belong anywhere near that list.

Pacquiao is, was, and has always been a hype job. I give him credit for fighting at forty or more pounds above his natural weight and for some impressive wins (please don't even bring up the drained De La Hoya fiasco), but last May, it was made abundantly clear that he is not even in Mayweather's league. I put him around number ten.

Carl Froch belongs somewhere on that list, maybe near the end of it.

Cotto either doesn't belong on that list or belongs on the very end of it. He was completely schooled by Austin Trout. Need I say more.

Klitschko would be much higher on that list, maybe even top five, if he didn't lose to Tyson Fury recently. I'm fine with his position on that list. He might belong a few spots higher. I'm okay with most of the rest of the list. Mosley should probably be a little lower.

Also, Ricky Hatton belongs on there, maybe at the end of it, but he had a great run until he met Mayweather and Pacquiao.

Sergio Martinez belongs on there. Definitely not top ten, or even top fifteen, but he belongs on there.

Biggest wastes of talent I have ever seen in the sport (not necessarily during the last twenty five years)
Kelly Pavlik
Gerry Cooney
Chavez, Jr.
Matthysse
Maidana (he had a really impressive first fight against Mayweather, but had the potential to be one of the best ever and lost to some guys he should have completely destroyed)
David Lemieux
Adrien Broner (He was great at 126. When he became unable to make that weight, it became obvious that he had no business fighting at 147, or maybe even at 140)

Edit: James Toney actually beat a Puerto Rican guy named Danny Garcia in Pennsylvania. Interesting.

You're leaving out Roy Jones Jr man. To me he's number 2.

1. Floyd
2. Roy
3. Pacquiao
4. Chavez
5. Hopkins

I agree Cotto is massively overrated, and I'm saying this as a Puerto Rican. Interesting that you bring up Maidana. I think he had massive potential as well, but he just isn't ring-savvy enough. He's a bit like Tito in that respect. He could have been a monster, but with flaws. When a dad-bod Erik Morales can school you at times, that's not a good sign.

Also, say what you want about Pacquiao but his resume is extremely impressive. I don't agree Mayweather embarrassed him in the last fight, to me Mayweather simply aged better. The fight would have looked very different 5 years prior and you know that's the truth! But not taking anything away either, I still have Mayweather #1 and he probably would have won 5 years prior, but with a lot more trouble and with a few more marks on his face.

Agree on Pavlik, that was sad. In a way I really respect what Hopkins did at such an old age winning that title against Pascal. But when a 'white boy' beat him up there was no one happier than me. To me Hopkins exploited and abused the rules of boxing more than anyone else in history. If people are fed up with Mayweather's evasive style, which some people say isn't 'fighting,' Hopkins is the greatest offender of all. While some people say he 'exposed' limited stars like Tito and Pavlik, I think he derailed their careers through borderline cheating. I HATE his fights and style. Pot-shotting and then diving in head-first to hug 99% of the fight is not boxing.

He's a really great analyst, though.

As far as wasted talents, I'll go with:

Rigondeaux
Lomachenko (still young but headed that way)
Yuriorkis Gamboa
Edwin Valero
FERNANDO VARGAS... he had no business being 21 years old going up against prime Felix Trinidad. One of the greatest fights of all time, but man, what a major 'what-if.' Extremely polished, could crack, and had the heart of a lion.
David Reid
Jermaine Taylor... figured out 'prime' Hopkins, TWICE! Then proceeded to get destroyed by Pavlik, Froch, and Abraham. As Pavlik said, could knock out a mule, but had stamina and chin issues. Sad fighter.
Paul Williams... of course...
and last but not least... Mike Tyson

^^^
I was actually planning on including Edwin Valero and accidentally left him out. He goes into the disappointment category. I've seen enough film of him and heard enough to tell me that he could have been better pound for pound than both Mayweather and Chavez, Sr. I don't put Roy Jones in the top five, but he makes that list somewhere. He was destroying everyone until he got that first legitimate loss (I don't really count that disqualification loss as a loss), then his career really took a turn for the worse. If you look at everything he has done, taking everything into consideration, he belongs on that list, but not in the top five, maybe not even close. Pavlik was a huge puncher and could really take a punch. He wasn't really athletic and wasn't great defensively. He was and is a complete mess outside of the ring and it seems like his heart was never really in it. If he had the work ethic of guys like Mayweather and Golovkin, he could have easily made this top five list. His management was dumb for recommending the Hopkins fight, even though it was at a catchweight (170). Hopkins was fighting at 175 at the time and Pavlik was at 160. You don't go up almost two weight classes to fight one of the best guys ever, especially when you are not taking training seriously and are not disciplined outside of the ring. The sportsbooks lost a ton of money on that one, as if I remember correctly, Pavlik was about a -500 favorite. That Hopkins fight effectively ended Pavlik's career. What did he really do after that fight?

Fernando Vargas. Another disappointment, but not entirely his fault. His management moved him way too fast. I saw him fight at Boardwalk Hall very early in his career and he scored a quick knockout.

Another thing is every Argentine boxer I have seen has pretty much the same style. Tough as hell, hard punchers with a high workrate, but seem to sell out defensively. I have no idea why that is. There is some guy right now named Jorge Sebastian Heiland who until a few days ago was ranked the number 5 middleweight and is now number 6. The guy has literally been sitting on the couch for months and months, probably because his management is completely inept and he probably hasn't made any real money. He needs to get a hold of me immediately. I could really help him. Same style too. He fights a lot like Martinez.

If Paul Williams had stayed the hell off of that motorcycle, his talent might not have been wasted.

Argentine fighters are some of my favorite boxers. Perhaps remnants of Carlos Monzón's legacy? He was pretty straightforward and just overwhelmed you with work rate and punching power. You can also see it in Jesús Cuellar, who's fighting Abner Mares in June I see... that should be an interesting fight.

Edwin Valero could have been a great fighter for sure, but I don't think he'd be above Mayweather or Chávez. Tacticians like Juan Manuel Márquez and Floyd Mayweather I think could have taken him. A fight between him and Pacquiao would've been fireworks, but I'd favor Pacquiao. Valero swung wiiiiide.

Sucks his head-related sanctioning issues prevented us from seeing him against contemporaries like Morales, Barrera, Hamed, Pacquiao.

(04-03-2016 11:41 AM)Kamikaze Wrote:  Argentine fighters are some of my favorite boxers. Perhaps remnants of Carlos Monzón's legacy? He was pretty straightforward and just overwhelmed you with work rate and punching power. You can also see it in Jesús Cuellar, who's fighting Abner Mares in June I see... that should be an interesting fight.

Edwin Valero could have been a great fighter for sure, but I don't think he'd be above Mayweather or Chávez. Tacticians like Juan Manuel Márquez and Floyd Mayweather I think could have taken him. A fight between him and Pacquiao would've been fireworks, but I'd favor Pacquiao. Valero swung wiiiiide.

Sucks his head-related sanctioning issues prevented us from seeing him against contemporaries like Morales, Barrera, Hamed, Pacquiao.

Valero's sanctioning issues wouldn't have completely prevented the big fights. Remember, he was able to get licensed in Texas and quite possibly could have been licensed in other states. Him allegedly killing his wife, then killing himself are what really did him in.

Pacquiao/Bradley could go either way tomorrow night, which is why I'm not going. There is no smart bet in this one. I had every chance to see it at the MGM Grand, but don't want the risk. LVH has Pacquiao at just a -190 favorite, which is crazy considering that Pacquiao was a really big favorite when he and Bradley first met. Bradley is a tough opponent for anyone is really hard to bet against, unless he is fighting Mayweather or someone. If he pulls off the upset, don't be surprised if he gets Alvarez at 155 in a few months.

Anthony Joshua has just knocked out Charles Martin one minute and thirty two seconds into round two.
I expected him to win but not so quickly. The fact that Martin and Joshua had won all 24 and 15 of their fights respectively before tonight made this a very interesting fight, not to mention that it was Southpaw v Orthodox. Though once the bell rang Joshua dominated from the start.

Double post

(04-09-2016 05:41 PM)Poker Wrote:  Anthony Joshua has just knocked out Charles Martin one minute and thirty two seconds into round two.
I expected him to win but not so quickly. The fact that Martin and Joshua had won all 24 and 15 of their fights respectively before tonight made this a very interesting fight, though once the bell rang Joshua dominated from the start.

I don't really follow anything above 175, but that was a pretty big upset. The state of boxing in the U.K. is excellent right now. Here's a statistic. As of a few weeks ago, there are now more current world champions from the U.K. than from the United States. When is the last time that was the case? Australia is a whole different story. Every time I see an Australian fighter fight in the United States, he gets killed.

AJ still looks very stiff to me.

I think he will clean up nonetheless.

Expect some super fights in the UK over the next 12-18 months.

(04-09-2016 08:43 PM)CrashBangWallop Wrote:  Expect some super fights in the UK over the next 12-18 months.

50% chance we get Golovkin/Saunders at Wembley this summer. If it happens, I'll consider going. British Airways has direct flights from Dulles to Heathrow.

(04-08-2016 05:54 PM)Merenguero Wrote:  Pacquiao/Bradley could go either way tomorrow night, which is why I'm not going. There is no smart bet in this one. I had every chance to see it at the MGM Grand, but don't want the risk. LVH has Pacquiao at just a -190 favorite, which is crazy considering that Pacquiao was a really big favorite when he and Bradley first met. Bradley is a tough opponent for anyone is really hard to bet against, unless he is fighting Mayweather or someone. If he pulls off the upset, don't be surprised if he gets Alvarez at 155 in a few months.

I should have shown up and bet on Gilberto Ramirez. Some, but not all, sportsbooks were taking bets on that fight and odds were really good. In the future, Ramirez will be a safe bet unless he is fighting, Golovkin, Ward, or Kovalev.

Thoughts on Canelo vs. Khan May 7? Slaughter, or does Khan actually have a shot?

(04-18-2016 10:59 AM)Kamikaze Wrote:  Thoughts on Canelo vs. Khan May 7? Slaughter, or does Khan actually have a shot?

Khan is a nearly man.

Has a glass jaw.

(04-09-2016 08:43 PM)CrashBangWallop Wrote:  AJ still looks very stiff to me.

I think he will clean up nonetheless.

Expect some super fights in the UK over the next 12-18 months.

Yes. He needs quite a lot of working on. His jab particularly needs work, as nothing seems to flow easily from it. He could also do with easing off on the weights just a little. He looks spectacular, but he'd be in big trouble I suspect against a fighter of similar size who could take him into the later rounds. It says a lot that there is still a significant gulf in class between AJ and Tyson Fury. AJ would still get spanked by Wlad.

(04-18-2016 11:23 AM)H1N1 Wrote:  

(04-09-2016 08:43 PM)CrashBangWallop Wrote:  AJ still looks very stiff to me.

I think he will clean up nonetheless.

Expect some super fights in the UK over the next 12-18 months.

Yes. He needs quite a lot of working on. His jab particularly needs work, as nothing seems to flow easily from it. He could also do with easing off on the weights just a little. He looks spectacular, but he'd be in big trouble I suspect against a fighter of similar size who could take him into the later rounds. It says a lot that there is still a significant gulf in class between AJ and Tyson Fury. AJ would still get spanked by Wlad.

It's funny. The casual fan mistakes Boxing for WWE wrestling in that AJ's physique makes them immediately think he's amazing.

As I say, though, I expect him to be plotted a path through the division for the foreseeable. He's too marketable for anyone to make a mistake with him. There will be lots of talk but I doubt an AJ/Fury fight will happen anytime soon. Way too much £££ at stake (perhaps for both fighters).

My personal opinion is that Wlad has had his moment that every boxer has eventually. The falling off the cliff. I might be wrong; we will see I suppose.

(04-18-2016 11:33 AM)CrashBangWallop Wrote:  

(04-18-2016 11:23 AM)H1N1 Wrote:  

(04-09-2016 08:43 PM)CrashBangWallop Wrote:  AJ still looks very stiff to me.

I think he will clean up nonetheless.

Expect some super fights in the UK over the next 12-18 months.

Yes. He needs quite a lot of working on. His jab particularly needs work, as nothing seems to flow easily from it. He could also do with easing off on the weights just a little. He looks spectacular, but he'd be in big trouble I suspect against a fighter of similar size who could take him into the later rounds. It says a lot that there is still a significant gulf in class between AJ and Tyson Fury. AJ would still get spanked by Wlad.

It's funny. The casual fan mistakes Boxing for WWE wrestling in that AJ's physique makes them immediately think he's amazing.

As I say, though, I expect him to be plotted a path through the division for the foreseeable. He's too marketable for anyone to make a mistake with him. There will be lots of talk but I doubt an AJ/Fury fight will happen anytime soon. Way too much £££ at stake (perhaps for both fighters).

My personal opinion is that Wlad has had his moment that every boxer has eventually. The falling off the cliff. I might be wrong; we will see I suppose.

I think you're absolutely right about Wlad. The only reason I think he handles AJ is because AJ's jab is so stiff, and he hesitates so often before letting his hands go, that any technically sound fighter with real pedigree, even if they are over the hill, would still be able to catch and jab effectively against AJ, and put a few good right hands on him. There's no doubt AJ has all the tools naturally, but I think he could be better coached. He is actually pretty unpolished for a 26 year old fighter.

^^^

Re AJ's age. I actually forgot he was that old...in my head he's 22.

Fury is only 2 years older!

(04-18-2016 11:33 AM)CrashBangWallop Wrote:  It's funny. The casual fan mistakes Boxing for WWE wrestling in that AJ's physique makes them immediately think he's amazing.

Timothy Bradley is a good example of that. If you don't know a lot about boxing and you looked at that guy, you would think that he could easily put any other 147 pound boxer into a coma. Although he's a really good overall boxer and not exactly feather fisted or anything, he is the farthest thing from a deadly puncher.