Post: #51

(09-16-2012 10:57 AM)Menace Wrote:  All other things being equal, and assuming truth, it's funny how saying you're more intelligent than most people gets hate, but if you say you are more fit than most people, or a better athlete, you get praise.

Yeah except certain intelligent people make out that it is a curse.

If someone came up to me and said, "You don't know what its like man! Life is so difficult because I have superior athletic genetics and I just can't talk to normal people' I'd think he was complete dickhead.

Being intelligent doesn't make you some paragon that the rest of the world needs to conform to in a conversation, and saying, 'woe is me I can't cope with the idiots life is too tough' makes you sound like a retard.

Post: #52

No, you're being the dickhead. Life is severely bad for many of the highly intelligent, because of their intelligence.

Post: #53

(09-16-2012 11:10 AM)Joseph_Dantes Wrote:  No, you're being the dickhead. Life is severely bad for many of the highly intelligent, because of their intelligence.

If you say so.

The fact is, if you're that highly intelligent, why is it so difficult for you to manifest some basic social skills?

I used to have real trouble dealing with the issues you highlighted in the original post, but then I took responsibility for my social troubles.

You can't expect everyone to conform to your ideal of conversation, and that is true whether your IQ is 70 or 170. If you have autism or agrophobia or some other socially debilitating illness, then fair enough: but that doesn't mean that your problem is heightened intelligence. It means you have a mental health problem.

I used to talk about my intellectual accomplishments, and the truth is, nobody cares. They don't care about singular endeavours because most people have nothing to relate it to. You speak a dead language? Well, no you don't because you have nobody to speak it with. And it is unreasonable to expect people to give you a gold star because you can do things that they have no interest in doing. In fact, it is selfish to expect people to do so.

Social etiquette is about being a pleasant person, not about overtly displaying your intelligence, which is distinctly unpleasant. Everything I've mentioned in this post applies whether your IQ is 100 or 200.

Post: #54

It's wonderful that you overcame your difficulties. Don't assume that yours is the hardest case. For the millionth time, it's not pure IQ, but IQ plus intellectual obsessiveness that causes (the worst) problems.

According to your logic, autistic kids simply aren't trying hard enough.

Post: #55

(09-16-2012 10:57 AM)Menace Wrote:  All other things being equal, and assuming truth, it's funny how saying you're more intelligent than most people gets hate, but if you say you are more fit than most people, or a better athlete, you get praise.

One of the many reasons I left the US for good was the anti-intellectual attitude of the majority of Americans. Any man who stands out because of his intelligence is looked down upon. One has to hide it. This is especially true when gaming American women.
Now I am in poor small South American counry with no public libraries, but the average person at least shows some respect for those with higher degrees, intelligence or level of education.

Post: #56

(09-16-2012 11:28 AM)Kitsune Wrote:  

(09-16-2012 11:10 AM)Joseph_Dantes Wrote:  No, you're being the dickhead. Life is severely bad for many of the highly intelligent, because of their intelligence.

If you say so.

The fact is, if you're that highly intelligent, why is it so difficult for you to manifest some basic social skills?

I used to have real trouble dealing with the issues you highlighted in the original post, but then I took responsibility for my social troubles.

You can't expect everyone to conform to your ideal of conversation, and that is true whether your IQ is 70 or 170. If you have autism or agrophobia or some other socially debilitating illness, then fair enough: but that doesn't mean that your problem is heightened intelligence. It means you have a mental health problem.

I used to talk about my intellectual accomplishments, and the truth is, nobody cares. They don't care about singular endeavours because most people have nothing to relate it to. You speak a dead language? Well, no you don't because you have nobody to speak it with. And it is unreasonable to expect people to give you a gold star because you can do things that they have no interest in doing. In fact, it is selfish to expect people to do so.

Social etiquette is about being a pleasant person, not about overtly displaying your intelligence, which is distinctly unpleasant. Everything I've mentioned in this post applies whether your IQ is 100 or 200.

This all makes good sense, Kitsune, but what about the issue of being bored?

Do you have friends whose company you enjoy whose IQ is 30 or more points below yours?

I think it's perfectly natural to be uninspired by people who can't get your jokes and rarely make you laugh. I'd think that pretty well all of us notice a large qualitative difference in our enjoyment of people 30 or 40 or 50 IQ points below and those whose levels are closer to our own.

In high school I decided I was unsatisfied with the quality of my friends, and so spent a few hours pouring over the year book, searching for a candidate to be my new best bud. I picked the guy, and we hung out after school every day. We got each other's jokes. We understood each other, and shared the same speed. Other people couldn't follow our conversations, but we'd speed along finishing each other sentences. It was a relief! No more dumbing down speech or agonizing through stupid arguments. We even challenged each other! Inspired each other. Talking was fun!

I bet all of us here, even those most aggressive to the OP, actually secretly agree. It's just that they aren't comparing themselves with those far enough below them as the very highly intelligent are above average.

And I know my place also. Sometime I'm in gatherings where I'm relatively dull. I'm not very highly intelligent, just enough so to know that it can be isolating when others don't understand you or share your interests. Don't and can't.

My best bud started hanging out with a crowd I didn't like so I stopped hanging with him, and he committed suicide shortly after high school, by the way.

Post: #57

Quote:According to your logic, autistic kids simply aren't trying hard enough.

For all your intelligence then, you're unable to read a 9 line post. I specifically mentioned autism:

Quote:If you have autism or agrophobia or some other socially debilitating illness, then fair enough: but that doesn't mean that your problem is heightened intelligence. It means you have a mental health problem.

At no point did the OP mention he suffered from autism. He said he suffered through having a higher intelligence.

In your first post, you said that the problem was incomprehensible to anyone with an above 2sd IQ.

Both of those are unrelated to autism. If the OP had have stated he had aspergers, people would have been a lot more tolerant, but that isn't what was discussed in the original post or in the rest of the thread.

Post: #58

(09-16-2012 04:08 AM)Joseph_Dantes Wrote:  If you don't know what the OP is talking about, it means you're within 1-2 SD of the mean IQ. At gaps greater than 2 SD communication becomes difficult. Fact.

Maybe thats because at above 2 sd the appearance of autism spectrum traits start to become more common. I know what it means to try to communicate with the incurious and the credulous, but that sort of thing is found all up and down the IQ distribution.

Quote:I've read similar things elsewhere but this is a useful and original take. Vox at alphagame.blogspot.com says the same thing.

This sort of post always gets shouted down by equalitarians and dummies - not identical groups.

Sometimes intelligence comes with social facility, other times it inhibits it. "I'm smart and I have no problem" is not a valid rebuttal.

Blaming your inability to connect with other people on other people is a little bit like blaming a lack of gaming skills on the women that you're gaming.

One thing about the manosphere, or whatever you want to call it, that gets me is this strange insistence that anyone who disagrees with this sort of imprecise and often inaccurate armchair empiricist claim must be some sort of brainwashed PC adherent. We know a lot about IQ, but we don't know nearly enough to be making these sorts of claims. That is a fact.

Post: #59

(09-16-2012 12:01 PM)j r Wrote:  Blaming your inability to connect with other people on other people is a little bit like blaming a lack of gaming skills on the women that you're gaming.

Do you find yourself having as easy a time befriending and bonding and wanting to hang out with people with an IQ 30 or 50 points below yours as you do people who you can speak with at your best level?

Post: #60

My dick is so big, you guys don't know what it's like. Every time I go out, girls try to grab it when I'm not looking. I've knocked over so many chairs that I've considered surgery. Sometimes I have to pay 2 entrance fees into clubs because people mistake the bulge in my pants for another person. I can't even relate to average joes because of how big mine is. People are jealous of me and they hate me for it, but it's a curse, it really is.

Post: #61

I personally don't by into that whole "everybody hates me because I'm intelligent" theory.

Growing up I was one of those kids who was geekier than geekier, not in a Dungeons and Dragons or collecting action figures way, but in a I learned to read at age four and built a computer before age ten manner.

As a result of my advanced intelligence at a young age, I used to be super cocky and incredibly pretentious even as a little kid. My attitude ended up earning me zero friends and left me feeling incredibly ostracized.

Rather than learn to not act like an overly educated prick, I simply would rationalize other kids hatred of me as them simply fearing and being jealous of my intelligence.

While I did grow out of my pretentious mental masturbation phase, I'll never forget how much I impeded my own social growth by simply rationalizing away my actions.

Saying that your supreme intellect is what's hurting your social skills is no different than a fat person claiming that it's "they can't help how much they weigh."

Short of being hideously deformed or suffering a mental handicap, most personal problems are inexcusable and can, to some degree, be corrected.

Post: #62

(09-16-2012 12:08 PM)xsplat Wrote:  

(09-16-2012 12:01 PM)j r Wrote:  Blaming your inability to connect with other people on other people is a little bit like blaming a lack of gaming skills on the women that you're gaming.

Do you find yourself having as easy a time befriending and bonding and wanting to hang out with people with an IQ 30 or 50 points below yours as you do people who you can speak with at your best level?

Since people don't walk around with their IQs stamped on their foreheads any answer I give would only be speculation.

What I do know is that I have an easier time bonding with people who are cool and interesting and I know plenty of intelligent people who are neither.

Post: #63

(09-16-2012 11:28 AM)Kitsune Wrote:  

(09-16-2012 11:10 AM)Joseph_Dantes Wrote:  No, you're being the dickhead. Life is severely bad for many of the highly intelligent, because of their intelligence.

If you say so.

The fact is, if you're that highly intelligent, why is it so difficult for you to manifest some basic social skills?

I used to have real trouble dealing with the issues you highlighted in the original post, but then I took responsibility for my social troubles.

You can't expect everyone to conform to your ideal of conversation, and that is true whether your IQ is 70 or 170. If you have autism or agrophobia or some other socially debilitating illness, then fair enough: but that doesn't mean that your problem is heightened intelligence. It means you have a mental health problem.

I used to talk about my intellectual accomplishments, and the truth is, nobody cares. They don't care about singular endeavours because most people have nothing to relate it to. You speak a dead language? Well, no you don't because you have nobody to speak it with. And it is unreasonable to expect people to give you a gold star because you can do things that they have no interest in doing. In fact, it is selfish to expect people to do so.

Social etiquette is about being a pleasant person, not about overtly displaying your intelligence, which is distinctly unpleasant. Everything I've mentioned in this post applies whether your IQ is 100 or 200.

Because your still using and measuring yourself to perceived and construction thing called "intelligence" measured whiten a controlled and feminized view. Being insanely gifted and smart is no different then being a phsycopath. Most gifted minds lack empathy and struggle with social relationships not because they are weird its because they don't have time or energy to since they devote so much if it the Task A or B.

Most great minds in whatever field are borderline crazy. You can't even internalize the amount of effort and time it takes to be gifted and great at so and so skill.

People acting like nerds got some refined tastes. You guys just be running more efficient the the rest of us, and are gifted at talking the dominate language of the establishment. You guys are expert in redundant bullshit. You ain't taking in Bach and searching for Truffles in your spare time in the hills of France.

Chill.

In my eyes being a selected "smart" person just means you are picked out as a child and groomed to become a whore to run and manage the archaic and dated system we call Western Anglo-American Civilization. You are groomed to be put in place to run our systems institutions but you will never control them. That is the big key there. You will be handsomely be compensated for your efforts but you will never run/nor control shit.

The oligarchs child you went to Princeton with never lifted a finger or read a book to get the same grades you did but he will be put into a position of ownership in due time and you will always lick his shoes and butt from your crumbs.. I mean compensation.

Gifted people outside of the box see this and go fuck off and do their own thing and see true rewards outside of a pat on the head or a paycheque.

This is why a lot of gifted great people drop of school. Why? They don't need that shit.

Would you spend 5 days non-stop with no sleep and only smoke breaks and breaks to the strip club for food and tity shows to be great like J-Dilla did? To the point his craft literally killed him. The man had few friends and literally spent thousands upon thousands of hours on his craft.

Or lock yourself away for 4 months a year to practice like the Beatles did.

Probably not. These kats were off the charts. No fuking list or test can measure the type of shit that ran through their heads. Bigging up some useless test score is fail #1 in thinking your shit don't stink bro.

Its not that people are getting dumber. On Average more people are getting college educations, HS graduation rates still climb up. Its just the system is rewarding compartmental feminized behaviour versus broad and overarching skills and viewpoints.

To be truly intelligent and well versed and logically sound is at the nature against what the institutions and establishment we built actually wants.

Men used to sit in rooms and think and discuss shit for hours and hours on end. Institution of learning prior to being corrupted by whore-ish Pagans and loony church leaders was simply just forums we're ideas we're discussed and recorded. Democracy and Education all stemmed from this and I am talking way way farther back then anything that happened in Greece.

What the hell was wage and what the hell was money? Wealth always existed buy men in those days had the freed to simply think and build. We thought long and hard of ways to free up more time to devote from this then from us having to forage hills for days for food.

Being smart in modern day times means recycling crap that nobody questions. When back in the day you would contently question things to try and reason with others better ideas and questions to ask. It was a on-going mindfuck in which hours of effort and mental strain we're used to try and crack complex ideas.

Not recycle old ones. like in present day.

How is it you walk into a room of Professional students and all talk like they are morons. I am train wreak of eloquence but I am a man of substance and logic I can sit in a room of esteemed professionals and offer up tangible ideas and I am the kid whom didn't even pass the mid term, while the bozo beside me with the high GPA is spewing non-sense from her textbook which has no place in the current context of the client meeting we are having.

Example.

We had a client meeting for class in which we had to hear what the group wanted for a development proposal for a inner-city community. They wanted a way to get food quickly and cheaply to inner-city residents. They already had partnerships with Grocer companies to open up a smaller store (at a loss) in these communities. The Grocers issue is that the inner-city food tastes are not healthy and this is an issue they can't really control.

My classmates offer an idea of Solar powered roof-top gardens. Some utopian non-sense that a intercity Somalian family won't give a fuck about. Nor will the partnership be eager to fund as there largest player is already loosing money. While we loosely addressed the issue with inquiring land from the City in that area since it is inncer-City. They ain't gonna part with that shit for free... more money would be needed.

But that is the garbage ideathat was in the text and though novel and good in theory holds no place in the situation. BUT ITS ALL THEY KNOW. I'm sitting here talking to these people bouncing ideas like it is nothing, bringing in other relevant examples and going into detail with the challenges in working with the City to set up such a proposal. All while being light and cracking jokes, work and play. I was not a nervous robot in a suit whom only spits the same crap on command like a fuking parrot. We think of a way to get an idea of what the community wants for food but doing so cheaply, a market where they sell their own shit with question-ares and people to gather data on their preferences on diet and what new foods the store could introduce to help fix their revenue gap with the subsidized inner-city store. The market would dance around City red tape on using actual land to plant shit. People can grow shit in their backyards as they please but a community garden was full of red tape and costs the group did not want to touch right now.

Simple. Done. I ignored my classmates and so did the Partnership group after a while, after a while it basically sounded like I was part of that Partnership myself. This is who us Gifted psychopaths roll We con-people into what we want, to them I sounded like the smartest guy in the room when I probably had the lowest marks out of my whole group.

I failed that classes mid-term a few weeks prior. But whom got offered a summer job with that Partnership? Not my class partner with the 4.0GPA.

So Exactly....

Fuk an IQ test.



They want you to be a caged Parrot and not a Eagle.™

Post: #64

Someone above mentioned Aspergers, and I suspect that some of what the OP is experiencing relates to this. Not all very high IQ people have Aspergers or other form of Autism, but a vastly disproportional percentage do. Also, I don't think the negative effects of high IQ really start at +2 SD (130). More likely from around 150, which is very, very few people.

OP, if you want a role model of a very high IQ person who gets (or rather got) along with people from all walks of life consider someone like Carl Sagan. Can you imagine him writing on an internet forum how it's so difficult to relate to people of average and below intelligence? No. He'd more likely spend the effort thinking of ways to explain his passion (Cosmology) so that it could "even" be understood by them.

Post: #65

(09-16-2012 10:57 AM)Menace Wrote:  All other things being equal, and assuming truth, it's funny how saying you're more intelligent than most people gets hate, but if you say you are more fit than most people, or a better athlete, you get praise.

It's incredible of how many insecurities are in this thread about intelligence. Out of all the things men are willing to brag about, intelligence is not one of them.


Seriously, I wonder why that is? Intelligence is almost useless for gaming women - I suspect the only reason intelligence exists is because men select for it.

For men, talking about who is more or less intelligent is a big deal, because it is assumed that someone with greater intelligence has better judgement and decision making skills. The superiority associated with intelligence makes dumber men feel inadequate by comparison, and thus they hate on intelligent people or anyone who claims to be intelligent.


Intelligent people should be praised, and not bullied.

Post: #66

(09-16-2012 11:06 AM)Kitsune Wrote:  

(09-16-2012 10:57 AM)Menace Wrote:  All other things being equal, and assuming truth, it's funny how saying you're more intelligent than most people gets hate, but if you say you are more fit than most people, or a better athlete, you get praise.

Yeah except certain intelligent people make out that it is a curse.

If someone came up to me and said, "You don't know what its like man! Life is so difficult because I have superior athletic genetics and I just can't talk to normal people' I'd think he was complete dickhead.

Being intelligent doesn't make you some paragon that the rest of the world needs to conform to in a conversation, and saying, 'woe is me I can't cope with the idiots life is too tough' makes you sound like a retard.

Completely false. Let me explain how being intelligent hurts you in today's society.


From an early age, your intelligence will manifest itself. You will be reading, writing, and doing arithmetic when other kids are playing with Legos.

You will have nothing in common with children your age, and children older than you will refuse to see you as an equal because they believe your age and size means you are inferior. It is especially bad if you are more intelligent than kids older than you, because they will see you as a threat.

So, by the age of 6, intelligent children have no friends. They are de-facto ostracized from other kids because children their age are maturing at a rate several times slower, while kids who are older and might have more in common see the young intelligent child as "uncool".

Thus the entire world is hostile to an intelligent child. He becomes extremely insecure of his place, since, on one hand, he is endlessly praised for his achievements, yet on the other hand, endlessly ridiculed by the jealous or ignored by the ignorant.



Who here is capable of working out their "inner game" at the age of 6?

No one is, and that marks the start of an intelligent child's life - utterly solitary. The only way to co-exist with his classmates is to adopt one of two personalities.

1. The Bully - Unable to cope with the isolation, the intelligent child reacts by lording his superiority over his classmates in order to justify his ostracization. Rather than make it seem he is unable to get along with his classmates, he instead portrays his unpopularity as a choice - he is without friends because he's too good for the other idiots. He talks down to others, rolls his eyes when they don't figure things out as quickly, and alienates himself even more as the years roll on.

2. The Pussy - Unable to cope with his isolation, the intelligent child reacts by working to never offend anyone, in hopes that he can become friends with others by being a doormat. Rather than show off his intelligence, he learns to hide it in order to fit in. Although he excels in school, he keeps his achievements hidden and works tirelessly to be part of clubs where he laughs at other kid's jokes and pretending to understand. At best, the pussy manages to be accepted by the local nerds in school, at worst, kids pick on him even more given his disposition to never stand up for himself.



By the time high school comes around, intelligent children are complete social outcasts, and totally inept with women. They live in a different universe from everyone else.

Post: #67

(09-15-2012 07:27 PM)Deif Wrote:  3. Know sports. Less intelligent men spend roughly 3 hours a day rewatching the same clips on ESPN. They obsess about athlete gossip in the same way women obsess over celebrity gossip. You can have fodder for an hour or two of conversation just by watching an episode of SportsCenter everyday. Also realize that a lot of men, quite literally, worship certain athletes. It's a kind of homoerotic affection that I have never understood.

I was unaware that because I watch sports I'm less intelligent. Admiring athletic excellence has no relevance to intelligence. You my friend are an A-hole.

Post: #68

^^^ Samseau

I don't know. No doubt the kind of scenario you sketched out does apply in some circumstances, but I don't know that it is typical.

I know it's only a sample of one, but one of my best friends growing up was exceptionally smart. Really. Like serious candidate for MIT graduate program in Physics later in life smart. But his life didn't seem to me to be the doom and gloom you describe above. While he wasn't exactly "well adjusted", since I agree that this is unlikely for the exceptionally smart, it's not like he lived in a depressing bubble either. He had plenty of friends and interests for example. And this was in a fairly small city, not a big metropolis with gifted school programs, magnet schools and the like.

Post: #69

(09-16-2012 01:34 PM)Bad Hussar Wrote:  ^^^ Samseau

I don't know. No doubt the kind of scenario you sketched out does apply in some circumstances, but I don't know that it is typical.

I know it's only a sample of one, but one of my best friends growing up was exceptionally smart. Really. Like serious candidate for MIT graduate program in Physics later in life smart. But his life didn't seem to me to be the doom and gloom you describe above. While he wasn't exactly "well adjusted", since I agree that this is unlikely for the exceptionally smart, it's not like he lived in a depressing bubble either. He had plenty of friends and interests for example. And this was in a fairly small city, not a big metropolis with gifted school programs, magnet schools and the like.

Did he lose his virginity in high school?

EDIT:

Also, did he ever learn of the manosphere and what does he think of this stuff?

Post: #70

Lots of interesting discussion in this thread.

Not to toot my own horn but I have a well-above average IQ(though I'm no genius). I think high IQ people often live in a world that feels much like that Idiocracy movie. If you have a very high IQ, Idiocracy is just daily life or you. Everything is going to seem relatively dumbed down for the masses. You are going to stand in disbelief at how common people believe in bullshit spewed by politicians. Or how easily they are misled. Or why people get in fights over dumb shit like the way someone stared at you or an argument over a girl. You will marvel at the way companies must legally protect themselves so they aren't liable for someone that sticks a screwdriver in their eye.

I think for everyone there's a certain intelligence threshold where if people fall below it, you simply can't relate to them. They see the world differently than you do and there's a disconnect in your ability to relate. That's why most people have friends of similar intelligence. I'm generally cool to everyone regardless of their intellectual curiosity. But I cannot get too close with people that I don't see as intelligent. Not because I don't like them or feel they have no good qualities, but because I find that we are often on completely different wavelengths.

Post: #71

(09-16-2012 01:37 PM)Samseau Wrote:  

(09-16-2012 01:34 PM)Bad Hussar Wrote:  ^^^ Samseau

I don't know. No doubt the kind of scenario you sketched out does apply in some circumstances, but I don't know that it is typical.

I know it's only a sample of one, but one of my best friends growing up was exceptionally smart. Really. Like serious candidate for MIT graduate program in Physics later in life smart. But his life didn't seem to me to be the doom and gloom you describe above. While he wasn't exactly "well adjusted", since I agree that this is unlikely for the exceptionally smart, it's not like he lived in a depressing bubble either. He had plenty of friends and interests for example. And this was in a fairly small city, not a big metropolis with gifted school programs, magnet schools and the like.

Did he lose his virginity in high school?

EDIT:

Also, did he ever learn of the manosphere and what does he think of this stuff?

Haha. Great question. In High School? No. But later at university he did hook up with a really hot foreign student. In many ways that was kind of his downfall and it ended quite badly. She ran off with his best friend. No, not me.

We have lost touch, so I don't know if he's into the manosphere, but I'd say it's pretty likely since I hear from reliable sources (his family) that he's become a pretty ruthless player now, many years later. Maybe making up for lost time. I don't know.

Post: #72

(09-16-2012 01:12 PM)Samseau Wrote:  

(09-16-2012 11:06 AM)Kitsune Wrote:  

(09-16-2012 10:57 AM)Menace Wrote:  All other things being equal, and assuming truth, it's funny how saying you're more intelligent than most people gets hate, but if you say you are more fit than most people, or a better athlete, you get praise.

Yeah except certain intelligent people make out that it is a curse.

If someone came up to me and said, "You don't know what its like man! Life is so difficult because I have superior athletic genetics and I just can't talk to normal people' I'd think he was complete dickhead.

Being intelligent doesn't make you some paragon that the rest of the world needs to conform to in a conversation, and saying, 'woe is me I can't cope with the idiots life is too tough' makes you sound like a retard.

Completely false. Let me explain how being intelligent hurts you in today's society.


From an early age, your intelligence will manifest itself. You will be reading, writing, and doing arithmetic when other kids are playing with Legos.

You will have nothing in common with children your age, and children older than you will refuse to see you as an equal because they believe your age and size means you are inferior. It is especially bad if you are more intelligent than kids older than you, because they will see you as a threat.

So, by the age of 6, intelligent children have no friends. They are de-facto ostracized from other kids because children their age are maturing at a rate several times slower, while kids who are older and might have more in common see the young intelligent child as "uncool".

Thus the entire world is hostile to an intelligent child. He becomes extremely insecure of his place, since, on one hand, he is endlessly praised for his achievements, yet on the other hand, endlessly ridiculed by the jealous or ignored by the ignorant.



Who here is capable of working out their "inner game" at the age of 6?

No one is, and that marks the start of an intelligent child's life - utterly solitary. The only way to co-exist with his classmates is to adopt one of two personalities.

1. The Bully - Unable to cope with the isolation, the intelligent child reacts by lording his superiority over his classmates in order to justify his ostracization. Rather than make it seem he is unable to get along with his classmates, he instead portrays his unpopularity as a choice - he is without friends because he's too good for the other idiots. He talks down to others, rolls his eyes when they don't figure things out as quickly, and alienates himself even more as the years roll on.

2. The Pussy - Unable to cope with his isolation, the intelligent child reacts by working to never offend anyone, in hopes that he can become friends with others by being a doormat. Rather than show off his intelligence, he learns to hide it in order to fit in. Although he excels in school, he keeps his achievements hidden and works tirelessly to be part of clubs where he laughs at other kid's jokes and pretending to understand. At best, the pussy manages to be accepted by the local nerds in school, at worst, kids pick on him even more given his disposition to never stand up for himself.



By the time high school comes around, intelligent children are complete social outcasts, and totally inept with women. They live in a different universe from everyone else.

Life is hell for most teenagers, I was heavily bullied and intelligent, one kid I knew tried to kill himself because everyone told him he was stupid all the time.

I'd rather not talk about myself in any detail because it detracts from the point, but when I was four I had the reading comprehension of an adult. I still had friends, and my life was generally quite happy. My friends weren't all supernerds.

The two roles you have divided smart people up into are weird, I wasn't really either, and I don't imagine any kid is an extreme version of either. Yes I was a bit of a wimp who got physically picked on, but that is probably because I was a wimp who was easy to pick on.

Very few people get out of the schooling system unbullied, and I think the system needs to change. If the OP was 15, then I could understand, I guess, because I felt the same at that age.

But as an adult, it's ridiculous to bemoan how bad you have it when all you have to complain about is that you 'dumb yourself down' (Whatever the hell that means anyway.) Imagine being one of those adults that has so little intelligence that they can't read or write, or being blind, or being a mute.

I went to a University full of socially inept people who were of high intelligence. One room mate I lived with tried to kill himself when a girl rejected him. This is a guy who can memorise entire passages of books on first read, and was bullied relentlessly through school and had all the hallmarks of a troubled upbringing, with divorce, moving home, bullying, few social skills, etc. He now has a steady income, he owns his own home, a girlfriend that absolutely worships him and is about to get his PhD in a completely technical and obscure subject that involves him travelling the world. He can have conversations with anyone, and enjoys hanging around with people who are far less intellectually inclined or as travelled as he is.

I use him as an example because he is the most like the hypothetical person you mentioned in your post: an extreme case who had to overcome huge hurdles to be sociable. I can't really say the same, because I've always accepted hardships like bullying as universal regardless of intelligence. One of my siblings is as much of a polar opposite of the archetype you suggest that they don't even fit in the conversation at all. Suffice to say, they are extremely extroverted whilst being of high intelligence. My sibling also has a wide mix of friends as regards intelligence (or, at least in my opinion - like the guy above said, you don't have IQ stamped on your forehead.)

Quote:This all makes good sense, Kitsune, but what about the issue of being bored?

Do you have friends whose company you enjoy whose IQ is 30 or more points below yours?

I think it's perfectly natural to be uninspired by people who can't get your jokes and rarely make you laugh. I'd think that pretty well all of us notice a large qualitative difference in our enjoyment of people 30 or 40 or 50 IQ points below and those whose levels are closer to our own.

In high school I decided I was unsatisfied with the quality of my friends, and so spent a few hours pouring over the year book, searching for a candidate to be my new best bud. I picked the guy, and we hung out after school every day. We got each other's jokes. We understood each other, and shared the same speed. Other people couldn't follow our conversations, but we'd speed along finishing each other sentences. It was a relief! No more dumbing down speech or agonizing through stupid arguments. We even challenged each other! Inspired each other. Talking was fun!

I bet all of us here, even those most aggressive to the OP, actually secretly agree. It's just that they aren't comparing themselves with those far enough below them as the very highly intelligent are above average.



And I know my place also. Sometime I'm in gatherings where I'm relatively dull. I'm not very highly intelligent, just enough so to know that it can be isolating when others don't understand you or share your interests. Don't and can't.

My best bud started hanging out with a crowd I didn't like so I stopped hanging with him, and he committed suicide shortly after high school, by the way.

Hey xsplat.

I'm not entirely sure how to answer your question. I'll do my best though.

I don't really mind hanging around with people who are below me IQ-wise, because I don't really seek out other people for extra-intellectual stimulation. I guess the advice I could give to people who feel they 'dumb themselves down' is to stop thinking you're going to find a wise-man in every conversation you have. Disclaimer though: Again, I don't really know people's IQ's anyway, so I just base these assumptions on vocabulary, subjects they can discuss etc.

That said, I do hang around with a lot of intellectually stimulating people because of the environment I'm in. Sometimes, we have fantastic conversations about deep stuff (I know a lot of foreigners and I like to talk about how their languages operate.) But a lot of the time, I imagine that our conversations are exactly the same as anyone else's. A lot of questions are universal:

How are you?
What have you been doing?

etc.

I know one guy who is heavily into sports, and I know you're not into them. I'm not into them either, not at all. But, the conversation isn't boring because it's something I don't know about and the emotions are genuine. I watched the olympics even though I don't have the slightest clue how most of the sports work, because I can understand the spectacle.

When I'm gaming or just talking to girls, I don't really dumb myself down in the slightest, and I don't amongst friends, even though I talk about some off-the-wall stuff that even I don't find interesting after a while. Sometimes, people will stop listening, at which point I let them change the subject. Sometimes, they go into deep immersion and when I stop speaking they'll say "Woah, I don't know what you're talking about, but it sure sounds interesting!" Ability to gauge a conversation is obviously key to conversing, and that exists regardless of intellectual capacity: I'd argue that it is easier for a dorky kid to pick up these cues than it is for a non-smart person to, which is why being intelligent isn't a disability. (Unless, for the people out there who somehow think high intelligence is automatically autistic, you have a disability like autism.)

As for getting bored? Sure, I get bored when I talk to people who don't really have anything stimulating to talk about if they are stupid. But, there are plenty of high-intelligence people who bore me to tears also; which is why I guess I'm answering this topic. Being intelligent doesn't give you the right to ignore how conversations work.

EDIT: There are also people who probably don't have great IQ's that make for fascinating conversation. There are people who've travelled the world, started multi-million dollar companies, had sex with supermodels, have thrown themselves out of planes or over cliffs for fun, etc. In a lot of conversations, I'm completely humbled. The most interesting conversation I ever had was with a salt-of-the-earth WWII veteran who admittedly never finished school and had to count using his fingers. He was telling me about how he wished that after the war he'd got to have a chat with the sniper who was trying to shoot him. He told me he was scared that he had to run at the machine-gun posts when he knew that if he got past them there were panzer tanks waiting too. How do you top a conversation like that?

Post: #73

(09-16-2012 01:33 PM)Kdog Wrote:  

(09-15-2012 07:27 PM)Deif Wrote:  3. Know sports. Less intelligent men spend roughly 3 hours a day rewatching the same clips on ESPN. They obsess about athlete gossip in the same way women obsess over celebrity gossip. You can have fodder for an hour or two of conversation just by watching an episode of SportsCenter everyday. Also realize that a lot of men, quite literally, worship certain athletes. It's a kind of homoerotic affection that I have never understood.

I was unaware that because I watch sports I'm less intelligent. Admiring athletic excellence has no relevance to intelligence. You my friend are an A-hole.

Agreed. Stephen Jay Gould was obsessed with baseball and I consider him to be one of the smartest people to have graced this planet. Stephen King and many others are avid sports fans as well.

Post: #74

(09-16-2012 01:33 PM)Kdog Wrote:  

(09-15-2012 07:27 PM)Deif Wrote:  3. Know sports. Less intelligent men spend roughly 3 hours a day rewatching the same clips on ESPN. They obsess about athlete gossip in the same way women obsess over celebrity gossip. You can have fodder for an hour or two of conversation just by watching an episode of SportsCenter everyday. Also realize that a lot of men, quite literally, worship certain athletes. It's a kind of homoerotic affection that I have never understood.

I was unaware that because I watch sports I'm less intelligent. Admiring athletic excellence has no relevance to intelligence. You my friend are an A-hole.

Calm down k dog. Alot of us men like to watch or read about sports, but what he saying is that there are alot who do so to an extreme. I probably read or watch sports about 30 minutes a day. But if I was doing it for 3 hours or more a day, Id be kicking my self in the ass, with so many creative endeavors available, money to be made, countries to visit and pussy to be had. In other words, the man who dedicates himself to watching sports that much is a buffoon, unless he is being paid as a coach or analyst. The same can be said about video games freaks and celebrity worshippers.

Post: #75

(09-16-2012 02:09 PM)speakeasy Wrote:  Lots of interesting discussion in this thread.

Not to toot my own horn but I have a well-above average IQ(though I'm no genius). I think high IQ people often live in a world that feels much like that Idiocracy movie. If you have a very high IQ, Idiocracy is just daily life or you. Everything is going to seem relatively dumbed down for the masses. You are going to stand in disbelief at how common people believe in bullshit spewed by politicians. Or how easily they are misled. Or why people get in fights over dumb shit like the way someone stared at you or an argument over a girl. You will marvel at the way companies must legally protect themselves so they aren't liable for someone that sticks a screwdriver in their eye.

I think for everyone there's a certain intelligence threshold where if people fall below it, you simply can't relate to them. They see the world differently than you do and there's a disconnect in your ability to relate. That's why most people have friends of similar intelligence. I'm generally cool to everyone regardless of their intellectual curiosity. But I cannot get too close with people that I don't see as intelligent. Not because I don't like them or feel they have no good qualities, but because I find that we are often on completely different wavelengths.

Speakeasy nailed it. He simplified what the originator of this thread was trying to point out. It is just that he put in a way that is not offensive, as the original post contained certain language and phrasings that could be misconstrued as so.
What is surprising is the amount of strong feeling that came out against the guy. I just saw this post for what it is: an interesting discussion that was posted by a smart guy who is not as glib and socially aware. No need to hate him for that. Just need to remind him that he needs to work on some other aspects of his personality. But the weaknesses of one who speaks the truth does not diminish its validity.