Post: #76

(09-16-2012 02:18 PM)Bad Hussar Wrote:  

(09-16-2012 01:37 PM)Samseau Wrote:  

(09-16-2012 01:34 PM)Bad Hussar Wrote:  ^^^ Samseau

I don't know. No doubt the kind of scenario you sketched out does apply in some circumstances, but I don't know that it is typical.

I know it's only a sample of one, but one of my best friends growing up was exceptionally smart. Really. Like serious candidate for MIT graduate program in Physics later in life smart. But his life didn't seem to me to be the doom and gloom you describe above. While he wasn't exactly "well adjusted", since I agree that this is unlikely for the exceptionally smart, it's not like he lived in a depressing bubble either. He had plenty of friends and interests for example. And this was in a fairly small city, not a big metropolis with gifted school programs, magnet schools and the like.

Did he lose his virginity in high school?

EDIT:

Also, did he ever learn of the manosphere and what does he think of this stuff?

Haha. Great question. In High School? No. But later at university he did hook up with a really hot foreign student. In many ways that was kind of his downfall and it ended quite badly. She ran off with his best friend. No, not me.

We have lost touch, so I don't know if he's into the manosphere, but I'd say it's pretty likely since I hear from reliable sources (his family) that he's become a pretty ruthless player now, many years later. Maybe making up for lost time. I don't know.

Your friend fell into the pussy category. He isn't a counter-example to my observations.

It's good to know he snapped it out though.

Kitsune Wrote:Life is hell for most teenagers, I was heavily bullied and intelligent

You also fell into the pussy category (no offense). It seems the pussy route is the one most intelligent people take. Few can find a sense of self-worth enabling them to enter the bully category.

Quote:One of my siblings is as much of a polar opposite of the archetype you suggest that they don't even fit in the conversation at all. Suffice to say, they are extremely extroverted whilst being of high intelligence.

Ten bucks he's less intelligent than you are. He's probably in the 115-120 range, which is only 1 SD. 1 SD isn't enough to fall into really intelligent classification I was describing above, which is for kids closer to or at the 2 SD mark.

Post: #77

I have an IQ just under 3 standard deviations from the norm. I have friends of all walks of life. Some who are in the trades, some who are mechanics, doctors, etc. Yes, I will admit some people are difficult to interact with, but that's usually caused by a lack of common interests.

One thing to recognize is that the majority of successful are not of well above average intelligence. I'd even imagine the majority of people who fall within 1 standard deviation are the happiest...

Why not try going to other countries where you are not fluent in the language? That alone will allow you to challenge yourself enough that even the guy who sits in the bar and watches sports every day and only knows sports will seem quite interesting. I find in Canada, the majority of my friends that surround me are well above the norm but when I go abroad, I get along much better with people who would likely be classified as average.

It sounds like some people are looking for mental masturbation and want to chat about things which seem challenging and philosophical in nature. Personally I'd much rather talk with an average guy than some guy who is sitting there talking about mentally masturbating topics all day. By the end of the day at work/ school my mind is exhausted and "thinking" at that level is the last thing that I want to do.

My main gf is a dance instructor and only a high school graduate...that's good enough for me, I don't want to see her after work and have to be stimulated by theorizing on Plato and Aristotle. But to each there own... maybe OP should join a group such as Mensa, The International Society for Poetic Inquiry, The Poetic Genius Society, Intertel etc. I'm certain that there are plenty of people happy to mentally masturbate in those organizations.

Post: #78

For the people who are getting angry at me for making a distinction between dumb, average, and smart people: you're on a forum that is anti-equalist and you most likely subscribe to some belief of social hierarchy (alpha, beta, omega males). Enough hypocrisy.

Post: #79

It's a good point that being made, and I understand the emotion behind it, that people can just be friendly with each other without talking smart people talk.

It seems to me that's what the OP is trying to do.

Ya, people don't have their IQ stamped on their forehead, but do you prefer to hang out with guys who are mentally retarded? I think what's happening is that guys believe that they are normal and good guys, and feel offended that anyone would consider them not good enough to shoot the shit with, or hang out watching TV or throw the football around with. That makes good sense to look at it that way, but try it the other way around. Think of other men you know who are blatantly obviously very far below you in intelligence. Is there a qualitative difference to your friendships with these guys?

In high school I spent a few months hanging out with one of the dumbest kids in the school. The guy who needed special classes where there would be 3 or 4 others in his class. We got along, and we were friendly. We did friendly things. But there was a qualitative difference between hanging with him and my later buddy who could score at the genius level on IQ tests. He was also very handsome and social and a killer ladies man - as people say, IQ is one of the cool things that make people cool.

It's partly a matter of bandwidth. Dial up versus broadband. But it's also that at certain thresholds of intelligence you get new faculties. Not just more of the same intelligence, but new abilities. It's good to be around people who can look at a subject and instantly know what the logical inconsistencies are, and come up with new insights that have never before been spoken, and it's irritating when such logical inconsistencies are deliberately ignored and fought for as truth.

Ya, we can learn how to be social with people who are FAR below our abilities and obviously so, and take some enjoyment in it. But I honestly believe that there isn't a single person here who prefers an idiocracy group of friends, and all prefer "cool and interesting guys" who stimulate him on many levels.

And ya, intelligence isn't the ONLY thing that makes a guy cool and stimulating. So what? So it's not black and white? We still prefer guys that we CAN, at least sometimes, click with on a mental level.

It's good to feel heard and understood. We all want that. And it's good to be inspired. And insight does not come regularly to the stupid. Nor even does comprehension.

Post: #80

I agree with your general sentiment, but not specifically with your points. Some thoughts:

1. There are people who I know are smart, but are not very intellectual. I went to a prominent university, and was surprised to find out how un-intellectual students were. Game in fact came to be an outlet for me, because I don't give a fuck about spectator sports, and most people had boring, inane conversations otherwise, where they'd take turns bitching about how they had more homework than anyone, and how little sleep they got. Part of the solution of course was finding cool friends as well. For some guys, women and sex are the only thing I can talk to them about, without them losing interest. This leads to them thinking I'm obsessed with sex - to an extent, I suppose, but it's really that dude, I just can't have any substantive conversation about anything else with you.

But all that said, the connection between intellectual ability and intellectual curiosity is weak. In my experience, I've had far more pleasant and entertaining conversations with older men, ~50 and up, than with younger men. I still have plenty of young friends of course, but the likelihood of compatibility for a random man seems highest with older men, who lack the insularity and navel-gazing nature of younger people. So I don't put much stock in intelligence as an indicator of intellectual curiosity - a brief conversation is a lot more indicative than anything else. I put the most stock in people who show intellectual curiousity and intellectual honesty - they see things happen and want to understand why they came out that way, especially things relating to people.

2. If people label you as 'intelligent,' it may be a euphemism for being socially awkward and lacking in charm. I find 'bright,' and 'clever' to have more of an overtone of charisma.

3. I'll admit to being a little pompous for its own sake sometimes. It's funny, because you smoke out the people who are insecure, who question you for say, using an obscure word. I like esoteric vocabulary, and I also like sassing people a bit, so I'll throw out pompous words from time to time, just to gauge someone's reaction, it can be very telling. If someone is insecure in that respect, they're likely to be insecure in other ways. Me, I know I'm smarter than a lot of people, and there are also plenty of people I could name who are vastly smarter than me. Just as I could say the same about looks, athleticism, money, charm and any other desirable trait. It's bullshit to think that people are equal on any of them, or to pretend that you are perfectly average when you are manifestly not.

I also don't hesitate to ask people what words mean when I don't understand - this happens a lot in business where people use retarded jargon that they themselves don't understand, and everyone else just pretends to know what they're talking about.

If you don't admit that you don't know something, you won't try and learn it. Plenty of guys think they know everything there is to know about talking to girls, that there's nothing they could learn from "reading a stupid book about girls." It's often the dumbest people who think they know the most, but that tendency spans the range of intelligence.

A bit unrelated, but one of my pet peeves is when people think you're stupid for not picking up a skill immediately, when it took them *years* to get proficient. I just think, "bro, give me just a fraction of the time it took you, and I'll be more than fine." In my experience, this is far more common among genuinely dim people.

Post: #81

Advice to my intellectual superiors: be nice to us simpletons, we out number you, if you treat us like shit, we can and will make your life a living hell, this is especially true at work.

Its all about respect guys, even if a co-worker or underling is dumb as a post, treat them with respect. Also, not everyone who is capable of engaging in intellectual conversations wants to engage in them, some people really would rather just talk about last night's ball game, or how there may not be any fucking NHL hockey this year.

Post: #82

" the connection between intellectual ability and intellectual curiosity is weak. "

I've noticed that there isn't direct correlation too. Not sure if there is no correlation though. Another high school story; I tried hanging with one of the smartest kids in the school. We got to know each other by sharing a computer in computer studies class (our high school was ahead of it's time - we used Vic 20s). That guy would code in complete coherent thought structures, without any need to run his scripts for testing. I always had to run and check for errors as I went.

But he seemed to have no general curiosity. I was stumped about that. And that was enough to become uninterested in him.

But ya, he was way smarter than me.

Still, without some smarts it's more difficult to explore curiosity.

I think what happens is that for some people the mental world brings pleasure. It's not hard work to think of stuff, it's a pleasure. I know not everyone is like that. I know that now. At times it's still confusing to me that we are all so different that way.

Post: #83

Scotian got some in Florider wit me

Post: #84

(09-16-2012 08:15 PM)scotian Wrote:  Advice to my intellectual superiors: be nice to us simpletons, we out number you, if you treat us like shit, we can and will make your life a living hell, this is especially true at work.

Its all about respect guys, even if a co-worker or underling is dumb as a post, treat them with respect. Also, not everyone who is capable of engaging in intellectual conversations wants to engage in them, some people really would rather just talk about last night's ball game, or how there may not be any fucking NHL hockey this year.

If I disrespected less intelligent people, I wouldn't make an effort to understand them.

Post: #85

(09-16-2012 07:34 PM)Deif Wrote:  For the people who are getting angry at me for making a distinction between dumb, average, and smart people: you're on a forum that is anti-equalist and you most likely subscribe to some belief of social hierarchy (alpha, beta, omega males). Enough hypocrisy.

I agree. I'm surprised by all the animosity/defensiveness activated by this post given all the not-so-subtle bragging about abilities that goes on here when talking about other subjects. Not to mention the many instances on this forum of looking down on people who don't think outside the box in the same way we do.

I thought the OP brought up some good points. The general population is quite simple, especially in America, and we live in a largely entertainment-based culture where we "snack" on bite-sized pieces of information but rarely take the time to look deep into anything.

I've got a few friends who care about intellectual pursuits, but they're few and far between. Most see me as being highly intelligent simply because I went to college, read, and have a little ambition. I get along with them great and love many of these guys like brothers, but I'd be lying if I said I didn't feel the communication gap from time to time. I don't look down on anyone, but there's a gulf to be sure, and sometimes it's refreshing to meet someone who is working with a little something more.

At least the OP is coming from the mindset that he can develop some habits to better relate with others. That says to me that he knows everyone has something to teach or offer - he even admitted that simpler people are probably happier, which I think is very true in a lot of cases.

"The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe. To be your own man is a hard business. If you try it, you'll be lonely often, and sometimes frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself." - Rudyard Kipling

Post: #86

(09-16-2012 08:30 PM)Deif Wrote:  

(09-16-2012 08:15 PM)scotian Wrote:  Advice to my intellectual superiors: be nice to us simpletons, we out number you, if you treat us like shit, we can and will make your life a living hell, this is especially true at work.

Its all about respect guys, even if a co-worker or underling is dumb as a post, treat them with respect. Also, not everyone who is capable of engaging in intellectual conversations wants to engage in them, some people really would rather just talk about last night's ball game, or how there may not be any fucking NHL hockey this year.

If I disrespected less intelligent people, I wouldn't make an effort to understand them.

Nope

Post: #87

Edit: No

Post: #88

Asperger's/Autism are simply dysfunctionally large expressions of the abstracting mindset that in smaller doses produces socially awkward scientists and engineers.

You are upset that the OP claims difficulty/dysfunction due to IQ. Yet clearly as IQ rises, up to half of high IQ people suffer maladjustment (45% at 175 according to Terman's data).

High IQ is not "unrelated" to autism/Asperger's.

I said the problem was incomprehensible to those BELOW +2 SD IQ, not above. They do not comprehend the social isolation a radically different mental speed imposes.

The only people doing the blaming are those attacking the OP. I blame IQ gaps and abstracting mindsets, not moral failures.

It's useless to tell people with the abstracting mindset to model themselves after charismatic high IQ people who don't have it. Instead, they need to learn the coping methods of those who had the same type of dysfunction and overcame it.

The OP is clearly of the abstracting mindset, but only suffers very mild dysfunction. It gets far, far worse.

Post: #89

I love how this became a debate as to who is inferior or superior without actually confirming or denying any of the OPs numbered ideas.

Maybe because you can't refute his points without attacking his character? I can't see one point in his post that claims "Intelligence is better." yet half the responses seem to be "being normal is better. Never underestimate the power of average." So why the fuck does half the argument need to pass judgement? Your shit is weak.

So lets review the OP's points:
1. Less intelligent people have low curiosity in the outside world.
2. Less intelligent chicks prefer to ignore OP's conversation, instead of trying to understand. They would rather save ego.
3. Less intelligent people obsess over athetic minutiae.
4. Less intelligent people get insecure.

BTW if you are looking at these and seeing "1. Less intelligent people are inferior. 2. Less intelligent people are inferior. 3. Less intelligent people are inferior. 4. Less intelligent people are inferior. " i think you need to evaluate his point #4 again.

Post: #90

(09-16-2012 02:09 PM)speakeasy Wrote:  Lots of interesting discussion in this thread.

Not to toot my own horn but I have a well-above average IQ(though I'm no genius). I think high IQ people often live in a world that feels much like that Idiocracy movie. If you have a very high IQ, Idiocracy is just daily life or you. Everything is going to seem relatively dumbed down for the masses. You are going to stand in disbelief at how common people believe in bullshit spewed by politicians. Or how easily they are misled. Or why people get in fights over dumb shit like the way someone stared at you or an argument over a girl. You will marvel at the way companies must legally protect themselves so they aren't liable for someone that sticks a screwdriver in their eye.

I think for everyone there's a certain intelligence threshold where if people fall below it, you simply can't relate to them. They see the world differently than you do and there's a disconnect in your ability to relate. That's why most people have friends of similar intelligence. I'm generally cool to everyone regardless of their intellectual curiosity. But I cannot get too close with people that I don't see as intelligent. Not because I don't like them or feel they have no good qualities, but because I find that we are often on completely different wavelengths.

I think this post summarizes basically everything.

Post: #91

Sorry for this

Post: #92

Once again sorry.

Post: #93

I apologize sincere for this

Post: #94

Not even sure about these guys..

Post: #95

Serious, I was testing with the crap videos. The OP is trolling.

Post: #96

haha EM are you drunk?

"The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe. To be your own man is a hard business. If you try it, you'll be lonely often, and sometimes frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself." - Rudyard Kipling

Post: #97

He is drunk and also

Post: #98

"we are all equal in rights but not ability" - an under appreciated quote and unfortunately i cannot give credit where it is due.

Samseau said it best when he asked why do people get offended when talking about intelligence? Intelligence implies that some people are simply better than others - an innate ability. It attacks the very foundation of "everyone equal" that people and religion have established. Some people get further in life because they have better genetics or because of heritage, some through sheer dumb luck. But the predominant thought is "if you work hard and you're committed then you can overcome all obstacles - you an be/do anything" and by saying that some people are more intelligent - capable of processing thoughts, ideas, making decisions, it says "others arent good enough to do these things." Characterizing people by intelligence attacks the equal in rights ideology, 1984 george orwellian shit - separate the best from the worthless. And so people get offended, it attacks their basic ideology that me, my friends, my family, my parents, my children, my future children - "we all have choice."

One thing we tend to forget is the frontal lobe. The best analogy is children, society accepts that children arent smart enough to make rational decisions. So we take away their rights, right to sex, vote, etc. force them into schooling. And i agree, frontal lobe isnt developed and doesnt fully develop until some point between 25 and 30 years old... they are biologically incapable of rational though and process, mostly mechanical. But we cant enslave people past 18 or 21 so that is where we basically say "they are intelligent enough to make these rational decisions" even though much of it is subjective.

Look at politicians, we elect them because the average person is not intelligent, rational, or informed enough to govern politics. But the train of thought is "anyone can become a politician" take that away by saying "some people just arent smart enough to be good politicians" <-- and yes this I find to be an accurate statement, and people get all butt hurt and flame wars happen.

Post: #99

When dealing with the less intelligent...

Don't focus on their deficiencies, focus on their strengths. Sometimes the less intelligent are good with women, sometimes, they have a good sense of humor, sometimes, they are knowledgeable about certain fields that you might have neglected.

I think you can learn something from everybody.

Edit: almost everybody.

Post: #100

I'm going to tactfully step aside from the debate going on in this thread and try to give some possible tips that would answer the OP's question on how to interact with the - I'm not going to say less intelligent. Instead in the interest of avoiding the debate about intellectual snobbery I'll say people who have don't have interest in abstract ideas or esoteric subjects.

1) Stick to discussions about people and events. The most obvious example of this would be sports, movies that are currently in theaters, athletes and celebrities and the such. I'm not saying you HAVE to talk about these things and I know a good portion of people on this forum complain about having to talk about Kim Kardashian with girls and what not but I'm just using them as examples. You could also talk about a BBQ that was thrown by a mutual friend last week and from there you can thread the conversation into what food they had and then to the best ways to prepare a particular sort of food and so on.

2) There are certain subjects that interest most people regardless of their intelligence level so focus on those subjects. The most obvious one would be sex and relationships since hey everyone needs to get off. The difference between men and women is something that everyone is going to have an opinion on ranging from the analyses of female psychology on one end we see on here to the simple "bitches be cray cray" type comments we see on the other end. I wager it would be pretty easy to break down the more intricate discussions on women on here into an easier to understand format in the same way Carl Sagan or Stephen Hawkins does the same for their scientific fields when they write pop books for the general public.

3) It's about delivery and communicating with enthusiasm and energy. Remember one of the rules of game when it comes to talking with chicks? About how a lot of times it isn't even really about the content of what you are talking about and just all about the vibe you give off? I believe this is a good general rule for mingling and socializing with people in general. Remember Roosh's Day Game material that focuses on old person bantering? It is useful also in general socializing.