(05-17-2019 03:08 AM)BelyyTigr Wrote:  But overall, GoT has been a fantastic golden era. We mght never see its like again. Anyone can criticise it for a few Youtube views. Can these critics actually write great stories? Ofcourse not! I can't think of many programmes I've EVER looked forward to watching like I was a little kid. Ok this season got the moneymen fucking some things but you can't forget its been a truly great series. I think some people should enjoy the ride rather than back seat driving!

I agree with the "anyone can criticise", Youtube is swamped with 20 something low brow pop culture criticism and I wonder how many of these critics turned in above average short stories to their English teachers. They probably didn't even like English.

It's not easy and I was pretty good at it. Out of ideas once, I once ripped off the entire plot of Phonebooth and adapted it, he gave me a great mark (I'm sure he knew the film) but even with great source material, it wasn't Phonebooth. Just getting the sequence of events in order was tough. I agonized and we didn't have the internet to pay someone to do it.

Here's a 20 something reviewer with well substantiated and reasoned points, that isn't hyperbolic:

(05-17-2019 06:38 AM)Syberpunk Wrote:  

(05-17-2019 03:08 AM)BelyyTigr Wrote:  But overall, GoT has been a fantastic golden era. We mght never see its like again. Anyone can criticise it for a few Youtube views. Can these critics actually write great stories? Ofcourse not! I can't think of many programmes I've EVER looked forward to watching like I was a little kid. Ok this season got the moneymen fucking some things but you can't forget its been a truly great series. I think some people should enjoy the ride rather than back seat driving!

I agree with the "anyone can criticise", Youtube is swamped with 20 something low brow pop culture criticism and I wonder how many of these critics turned in above average short stories to their English teachers. They probably didn't even like English.

It's not easy and I was pretty good at it. Out of ideas once, I once ripped off the entire plot of Phonebooth and adapted it, he gave me a great mark (I'm sure he knew the film) but even with great source material, it wasn't Phonebooth. Just getting the sequence of events in order was tough. I agonized and we didn't have the internet to pay someone to do it.

To which the answer is: these guys did get paid.
Millions.
To write and produce this shit.

On the other hand, as said part of the problem (which GRRM brought up likely to minimise the fact he gets to read these fucking scripts and make comments, i.e. he has a role in this dumpster fire as well) is that the series has barnacles on it: the empty suits who demand that certain characters be featured more or less because they have good Q scores. This is what generates Arya healing factors, Brienne being knighted, and Cleganebowls that, on final analysis, suck. Fanservice is not because the suits like the fans, they just like the views. Because the empty suits have no skin in the game. No marketing man ever lost his job over insisting that the show be dumbed down, that wimminz be made stronker in later seasons, no matter what critics said about the show, and that's the whole problem.

It also doesn't help that D&D don't have much skin in the game either. That's the problem with a final season, there's nothing really for you to lose, the series is over one way or the other, and you get paid ahead of time on salary, not on commission from eyeballs, so you have no incentive to make a decent job of it.

(05-17-2019 06:38 AM)Syberpunk Wrote:  

(05-17-2019 03:08 AM)BelyyTigr Wrote:  But overall, GoT has been a fantastic golden era. We mght never see its like again. Anyone can criticise it for a few Youtube views. Can these critics actually write great stories? Ofcourse not! I can't think of many programmes I've EVER looked forward to watching like I was a little kid. Ok this season got the moneymen fucking some things but you can't forget its been a truly great series. I think some people should enjoy the ride rather than back seat driving!

I agree with the "anyone can criticise", Youtube is swamped with 20 something low brow pop culture criticism and I wonder how many of these critics turned in above average short stories to their English teachers. They probably didn't even like English.

It's not easy and I was pretty good at it. Out of ideas once, I once ripped off the entire plot of Phonebooth and adapted it, he gave me a great mark (I'm sure he knew the film) but even with great source material, it wasn't Phonebooth. Just getting the sequence of events in order was tough. I agonized and we didn't have the internet to pay someone to do it.

Here's a 20 something reviewer with well substantiated and reasoned points, that isn't hyperbolic:

Yeah I read the transcript of your link. Its a difficult topic. My view was that Danaerys was a silverspooned, smarmy, up herself, piece of shit, hungry for absolute power for a long time. Some people got butthurt because she portrayed herself as a female "strong confident woman", Neoliberal, freeing slaves etc.

I do agree with the video in that her character progression (or regression) lacked the right timing and drama etc. Ofcourse it felt rushed and we didn't see enough of the right dynamic tension beforehand... you could argue. BUT in real life, sometimes people go mental and murder their families for the "fun of it". Aung San Suu Kyi (Myanmar preseident and Nobel peace prize winner) was portrayed as some sort of saint, now some sort of monster by the international media. The (overly rapid) character change DID make its own statement. But I still think, the writing would have been quite a bit better if George had done it.

In more general terms, I've got huge respect for George and the documentaries on him were fascinating. He talked about how TV people kept watering down his stories thro production demands etc. It was also interesting to hear how he learned his craft, came from a humble background and had to work really hard to become the star he rightly is today.

I did some reading on the 2 new writers. Benioff seems a lot like Danaerys. Reading his resume its hard to imagine someone with a more privileged background. (Possibly America's oldest and most exclusive high school, dad was head of Goldman Sachs etc etc) Can't find as much out about Weiss, but they are both Jewish Americans who met at university in Dublin. I get the feeling Weiss is more about production budgets and surrounding issues and Benioff is the key writer of the 2. Ultmately Benioff seems to be the product of crony capitalism and Weiss is his sidekick who's glad for what he's given and paid handsomely for. Weiss doesn't seem to have produced much on his own. And Benioff just seemed to freeload on George's great work. Can't say I'm surprised that they disappointed many people. George is truly gifted. In comparison, these two are just lucky to be where they are, in my view anyway.

Leaks aside (and no spoilers please! ), we didn't actually see Danaerys on the dragon when it was burning the city. Did we?
Atleast from the Sky TV commentator.
If the dragon, not Danaerys went rogue then keeping this quiet til episode 6 would be one giant way to hype up coverage. Just a thought from me.

But anyway, who knows?

@Paracelcius.
Yes thats another aspect of it.George put his heart and soul into it. Good writing is a slow, even tiresome process. You can't teach what he has. A rich dad can't fix you up with it.
George gave them fantastic foundations. But ultimately the 2 new writers are just a pair of suits. All buzzwords, focus group feedback and the like. George built an "iconic palace". The other 2 specialise in churning out McMansions.

She is definitely riding the dragon and directing it to kill the innocent bystanders.

(05-17-2019 08:26 AM)BelyyTigr Wrote:  Leaks aside (and no spoilers please! ), we didn't actually see Danaerys on the dragon when it was burning the city. Did we?

Yes of course we did.

(05-17-2019 08:18 AM)BelyyTigr Wrote:  I did some reading on the 2 new writers. Benioff seems a lot like Danaerys. Reading his resume its hard to imagine someone with a more privileged background. (Possibly America's oldest and most exclusive high school, dad was head of Goldman Sachs etc etc) Can't find as much out about Weiss, but they are both Jewish Americans who met at university in Dublin. I get the feeling Weiss is more about production budgets and surrounding issues and Benioff is the key writer of the 2. Ultmately Benioff seems to be the product of crony capitalism and Weiss is his sidekick who's glad for what he's given and paid handsomely for. Weiss doesn't seem to have produced much on his own. And Benioff just seemed to freeload on George's great work. Can't say I'm surprised that they disappointed many people. George is truly gifted. In comparison, these two are just lucky to be where they are, in my view anyway.

Uh oh - one of those instances where they can tout the example of someone who "made it himself". When your daddy is a Goldman Sachs executive, then you are true upper class and not only in terms of financial clout. Goldman Sachs is far more powerful than it seems and their influence extends towards everything. No matter whether he produced excellent/ mediocre or even below mediocre content as a writer - it was guaranteed that he would get a chance at a high-tier Hollywood production.

There is nothing wrong with shock value. They could have made the Hound slash at Cersei and cut her in half for shock value - revealing that it was Arya while the Hound was left behind late for his stupid Clegane bowl. But no - they create stupid shit like the Danebowl with Jamie Lannister and Euron to fight over who fucked Cersei better.

And who needs Night King exposition when he can get dick-jokes and Arya side-boob.

Also Arya:

Witch: "Go kill the Night King girl!"
Arya: "Good idea! Never crossed my mind."

Hound: "Don't kill Cersei. You are not a killing machine like me."

Arya: "Um....







Arya: "Yeah - you are right. I wanted to kill Cersei, but I gotta turn back and run around like a defenseless little girl pushed around, so that the viewers can appreciate the mayhem of King's Landing. Thanks Sandor! Go and die needlessly fighting the corpse of your brother at which point you cannot even discern who is the better fighter because your brother being dead already!"

   

If Arya had waited in the tree above Bran and jumped into action after Jon Snow got defeated in a proper sword fight, then no one would be upset with her killing him. But no - they needed her to be Terminatrix, then become a poor defenseless girl in the castle running away in fear from 5 zombies. That is not how characters work.

But who cares - Benioff was raised on cocaine on golden toilet seats, he does not know how emotions work.

The problem with shows that are very popular is there’s almost no good way to end them because people are already pissed off that it’s ending.

But right now, close to a half million (actually it might be more at this point) snowflakes are petitioning HBO to rewrite and reshoot the entire 8th season.

Let’s be honest. Most of these people are mad they’re not gonna get their girlpower ending. They’re mad that their hero went nuts. They can pretend they’re not sure how she went nuts, but anyone who’s had a ltr knows that sometimes bitches go off their rocker with little or no notice or provocation.

They want a rewrite where dragonbitch comes out on top as sort of a de facto rewrite of the medieval period of world history. By letting Dany win, it allows them to more realistically pretend that women wielded more power in that era.

The bottom line is there’s no way to end this show that most people don’t want to see ended, without pissing off a lot of them. Even if the past two seasons were made longer, people still wouldn’t be happy.

I don’t like how they handled many things this season but at the same time, I’m content with it being wrapped up as is.

< The snowflakes and SJWs will do their complaining regardless.

But the thing is - good storytelling is good even if it is filled to the brim with girl-power-memes.

Only when they cross the line into absolutely stupid arc-breaking storytelling - then everyone including the SJWs don't like it anymore. A good example are the woke Marvel comics that all the SJWs and normies were supposed to buy, but no one does, because they are pure propaganda without entertainment value. The women may not have liked the storyline of Daenerys being raped by the Khal or they have detested Ramsey Bolton, but their ID was certainly excited by those despicable toxic masculine men. And the SJW campaigns did not matter.

This is a bit different. The SJWs would have protested anyway, but if they had set up the story better then it would have worked not breaking good storytelling. This time it did - they broke the storytelling AND they pissed off the snowflakes, but the first reason is the one that will forever taint the entire franchise and ultimately ruin it.

They're begging to be put in the place that they say they don't want to be in.





EDIT: This post wasn't intended for this thread.

<
That fits most threads.

In this instance it would be the refusal to bow to the opinions of the snowflakes.





If Euron were still alive:

   




Always on the right side of history.

(05-17-2019 09:12 AM)eradicator Wrote:  She is definitely riding the dragon and directing it to kill the innocent bystanders.

I was thinking that myself. But on Sky TV in England we have this aftershow called Thronecast run by a moronic dyke. She said that Danaerys wasn't seen on the dragon. Moral of the story is, never trust a woman who wants to look like a man.



Look at the state of her. What a fucking circus freak!

Wearing a shirt covered in worms, spiders and cockroaches...

These degenerates are getting more and more brazen.

The stupidest part of all this is that on my impression, there is precisely zero need for Danaerys to have her One Bad Day psychotic break at the sound of the bells. To me the story works better by suggesting -- or even just playing up -- that she's already made her decision to go Full Dresden on KL well ahead of any surrender, and Grey Worm is simply acting on her orders given well ahead of time, because she doesn't trust Jon or Tyrion. We're not seeing her turning crazy, that happened end of last episode when they cut off the head of her last female friend.

Have another look at that bells scene and recast Danaerys as battling with, and eventually overriding, the last shreds of her conscience telling her not to do what she's about to do, that she has this one last chance to turn back and flip the Targaryen coin onto the side that indicates greatness. Consider that she's looking at the Red Keep as the home of her ancestors, as 300 years of Targaryen legacy she is about to turn to ash. But she decides to go through with it anyway, because she's committed now, and having committed, having decided it's time to stop fucking around, she can't have any scruples about inspiring fear in those she wants to save. She has, finally, grown up and understands what it takes to rule this land of fucking white males her countrymen.

(05-17-2019 11:26 AM)Paracelsus Wrote:  She has, finally, grown up and understands what it takes to rule this land of fucking white males her countrymen.

Dany: Why can't sophisticated white people worship me like my primitive, goat-fucker army does?

This is the best episode of the 8th season

(05-17-2019 11:26 AM)Paracelsus Wrote:  The stupidest part of all this is that on my impression, there is precisely zero need for Danaerys to have her One Bad Day psychotic break at the sound of the bells. To me the story works better by suggesting -- or even just playing up -- that she's already made her decision to go Full Dresden on KL well ahead of any surrender, and Grey Worm is simply acting on her orders given well ahead of time, because she doesn't trust Jon or Tyrion. We're not seeing her turning crazy, that happened end of last episode when they cut off the head of her last female friend.

Have another look at that bells scene and recast Danaerys as battling with, and eventually overriding, the last shreds of her conscience telling her not to do what she's about to do, that she has this one last chance to turn back and flip the Targaryen coin onto the side that indicates greatness. Consider that she's looking at the Red Keep as the home of her ancestors, as 300 years of Targaryen legacy she is about to turn to ash. But she decides to go through with it anyway, because she's committed now, and having committed, having decided it's time to stop fucking around, she can't have any scruples about inspiring fear in those she wants to save. She has, finally, grown up and understands what it takes to rule this land of fucking white males her countrymen.

Actually no - none of her ancestors were as brutal as that. Aegon the conqueror wiped out armies and houses if they did not bend the knee, but he did not go and burn all their peasants too.

If you do that, then you invite just rebellion. This has never worked in history even if you were a great military leader. Dracul of Romania beat back the Ottomans, but then continued to impale his own people over ridiculous reasons and the people revolted preferring to join the Ottoman empire again! When a ruler becomes worse than civil war or the most evil Cersei/Jeoffrey than your rule is doomed.

There is a limit to terror at least in medieval times. She may have an invulnerable dragon, but her body can be shot, stabbed or poisoned easily enough. Kings that did not have some dedicated support in the population never ruled for long. And who is her unwavering support? The Dothraki savages and the dickless Unsullied? Good luck with holding that baby while you are literally hated by all of the people of Westeros. Aegon the Conqueror had far more support as they were generous to the ones who joined them - also some houses were on their side from the beginning.

In contrast she burnt her own people and the city their ancestors built.

The showrunners went for stupid shock-value. It would have been enough if she had attacked the Red Keep, having her dragon eat Cersei slowly, rip her to shreds. If she had burnt thousands of people who happened to be in the Red Keep, then it would be bad enough. They could have let her tell Greyworm to kill all Lannisters - even if they surrendered. He could have said: "Queen's orders - all Lannisters must die!"

That would be somewhat ruthless and still reason enough for the rest of her advisors and Jon Snow to conspire against her. But at least it would not be this batshit-crazy.

If the writers had chosen that path, then there would still be enough bloodshed and mayhem and an ambivalent view of whether it would be better to have her deposed or not. Or they would have gone the surpise - let her become queen, do a time-jump of 8 months, have her a baby with Jon Snow and die at childbirth (poisoned by the Maesters who were behind the destruction of ancient Valyria).

There were countless options of doing it all, but Dumb&Dumber underestimated the audience thinking that mindless popcorn-action would be enough to pacify the idiocracy.

Dumb&Dumber went to the same subversion-school Rian Johnson went to - always to extreme cultural marxists who will do stupid crap like that.

https://www.reddit.com/r/freefolk/commen...tter_lmao/

This reaction by Emilia Clarke was even better while the other actors had to play good sport.

If he had made it to Episode 6 he would have subverted our expectations:



Look at all the psychopaths in the show:

Quote:D&D saying Danys reaction to Viserys' death was here first sign of madness. Seems like they kind of forgot about all the other reactions of main characters to killing people...

(05-17-2019 06:54 PM)Simeon_Strangelight Wrote:  https://www.reddit.com/r/freefolk/commen...tter_lmao/

She looks much cuter here than she does in the show.

Yes - he did say that:






Though at least - Dumb and Dumber are smart enough as to not attack the fans as misogynists, sexists, ungrateful deplorables. They probably think that it's just a few SJWs complaigning about rape while fantasizing about rape. Or they simply don't care as the public is dumb in many instances, but story-telling is ancient and the model of good storytelling is identical for thousands of years. If you break that mold in that postmodernist crap, then you create nothing memorable.





This Youtuber is correct - the best part about all of this is the reaction of the Burlington Bar and it's the destruction of the feminist heroes.

The show went the full feminist power-fantasy - mostly evil White toxic males dying - many through the hands of women, then be replaced by women. Then when the Night King gets easily dispatched by a tiny woman, when the bigger baddie is made out to be Cersei, she continues by killing a woman of color!
Then the Breaker of Chains becomes the crazy woman burning babies.

Though we here know what's up - the cultural marxists destroy EVERYTHING and like someone mentioned before when citing Yuri Bezmenov. The feminists, the SJWs - the true believers in that crap - they will be crushed first, because you cannot trust them.

(05-18-2019 06:15 AM)Simeon_Strangelight Wrote:  Yes - he did say that:

This must be beyond maddening, I'm amazed the acting is as good as it is, considering you get everything only that day.
That Anderson Cooper blank stare.

(05-17-2019 06:54 PM)Simeon_Strangelight Wrote:  Actually no - none of her ancestors were as brutal as that. Aegon the conqueror wiped out armies and houses if they did not bend the knee, but he did not go and burn all their peasants too.

Does name Maegor the Cruel ring a bell?

At this point we just have to appreciate the quality of the earlier seasons and the memes the show has brought us. We all know the final episode will suck, so like Dexter it may make sense to skip it entirely and avoid disappointment. It doesnt appear HBO has any remaining shows worth watching, so now we can all safely use $15 a month on appetizers for women.


The last thing Rhaegar Targaryen ever saw

The destruction of John "Knows Nothing Muh Queen" Snow - this most likely due to the White male not be a good symbol of our times #slayqueen

And this is brutal - short cartoon:

The memes keep getting better and better!