Sanders has his flaws, but he's better than Hillary and most of the cuckservatives.

Trump is the best though. He's got my vote.

(08-17-2015 10:32 PM)Quintus Curtius Wrote:  I was initially dismissive of Trump.

I'm starting to come around to the idea of changing my opinion. His message and his campaigning have so far been fantastic, and I can't deny it.

We sure as hell need someone with balls, and all the other candidates look like pathetic losers in comparison to him.

He's convincing me.

So far he is running a textbook campaign based on sales/attraction. He started out bombastic to get the public's attention, while proving he doesn't take shit, and is now transitioning into selling to the customers desires.

Sales 101

Quote:I was initially dismissive of Trump.
....
He's convincing me.

Quote:^^^ I'm impressed that you have the rocks to be open to change your public opinion QC. I've read your initial comments on Trump. I'm still supporting Mike Huckabee but an leaning more to Trump now myself.

This is why I laugh at the people who say that Trump's support has reached a peak, and he can only go down from here. The idea of promoting a guy who's most famous for his hair to the highest office in the land is a ridiculous one, and it takes a lot of time to get used to. There's also an understandable reluctance to support a guy who was by most accounts a centrist with little interest in politics for most of his career.

But from my perspective, Trump's support has only grown over the last few weeks, and I've got the sense that he's getting more popular, not less. The more he talks, the more people like him. The more sacred cows he tips over, the more people like him.

I'm not sure he'll win, and I'm not sure I'd even like him as president. But he's saying the stuff that needs to be said, and for that, I think he deserves our support.

I'm looking forward to Trump explaining the details of his economic plan, specifically addressing evil & greedy corporations that are driven or pressured by Wall Street to beat quarterly profits at the expense of the workers. Also, the huge gap between worker pay and executive pay - I think the average CEO pay is around 300 times the average worker pay.

I'd like to see corporations share the profits with their workers. Take Apple - it has a cash hoard of $200-250 billion dollars that's just sitting in offshore bank accounts. The greedy corporation view is that Apple made this money and has the right to do whatever it wants with it. The worker-centered corporation that has the well being of the country and middle class/working class in mind would give some of that back to the workers.

What if legislation is introduced that gives corporations/companies a tax break -- no taxes or a tax deduction on revenue that is given as a profit sharing with its workers. This can be an incentive for companies looking to lower their tax profile or taxable income. For offshore revenue that a company wants to repatriate into the country (like in Apple's case), for every dollar given out in an employee profit-share, they can deduct a dollar from their taxable income that they're repatriating or even domestic income. I think this type of legislation can be attractive to corporations/companies and can shift the current paradigm of the rich getting richer and the middle class getting decimated.

(08-17-2015 10:47 PM)SamuelBRoberts Wrote:  The idea of promoting a guy who's most famous for his hair to the highest office in the land is a ridiculous one, and it takes a lot of time to get used to.

The higher the hair, the closer to God.

(08-17-2015 10:32 PM)Quintus Curtius Wrote:  I was initially dismissive of Trump.

I'm starting to come around to the idea of changing my opinion. His message and his campaigning have so far been fantastic, and I can't deny it.

We sure as hell need someone with balls, and all the other candidates look like pathetic losers in comparison to him.

He's convincing me, and I intend to vote for him.

His personal faults are outweighed by the positive effect he's had so far.

Only area I really disagree with him on is I don't like him being a big fan of Israel but realistically I don't think there's an anti-Israeli politician in America who could get elected. Illegal immigration, I think, remains the biggest problem both here in America and Europe. The west is going to be fucked and the entire world will suffer for it if nothing is done about this.

We've bought into the guilt trips and failed the shit tests for too long. It's time that changes. That's why I'm voting Trump.

(08-17-2015 10:18 PM)Hotwheels Wrote:  Trump against Zuckerberg on H1B visa's.


http://money.cnn.com/2015/08/17/news/com...oplead-dom

Donald Trump has a new target for his criticism of the nation's immigration policies - Facebook founder Mark Zuckerberg.
Zuckerberg is one of the leading tech executives who has called for a more open immigration policy. Specifically, he wants to make more H-1B visas available to tech employers so they can hire foreign skilled workers.

Facebook, Microsoft and Yahoo are all behind Cuck's FWD.us organization that wants to vastly increase H1B's to bring in more cheap Indian coders to replace Americans.

More at the link.

It is like Trump just asks people what their greatest anger is towards our worthless govt. and then goes and addresses it.

He may not get anything he wants passed, but at least he takes the same side of the issues as the American people. Something we have not seen yet.

I've been saying for 20 years the best thing for this country would be a true business man as president. While you can band-aide lots of shit like the Dems have with $$, you can also fix nearly every major issue with a country that has a top notch credit rating, isn't trillions in debt, runs both a minimal deficit (or surplus), and reasonable trade deficit (or surplus).

Lean the country out. Cut the shit, the fat, and bitching. Trump may seem like a weasley business man, but like every other president at face-value, they almost always become the opposite once in office. I'd bet he'd rule in a very reasonable manner. And that means pissing some people off, real, real bad.

(08-17-2015 10:46 PM)Hotwheels Wrote:  

(08-17-2015 10:32 PM)Quintus Curtius Wrote:  I was initially dismissive of Trump.

I'm starting to come around to the idea of changing my opinion. His message and his campaigning have so far been fantastic, and I can't deny it.

We sure as hell need someone with balls, and all the other candidates look like pathetic losers in comparison to him.

He's convincing me.

So far he is running a textbook campaign based on sales/attraction. He started out bombastic to get the public's attention, while proving he doesn't take shit, and is now transitioning into selling to the customers desires.

Sales 101

True. Shock an awe opener, gets attention, then lays out the science like a pro. I believe in the concept of the Libertarians, strict constructionists to the constitution, as it's a pretty damn good set of rules, but where the Libertarians fall flat on their faces is explaining IMMEDIATELY what their plan is to carry out those changes (albeit drastic seeming to the masses). Trump however, explains quickly and confidently when asked about issues, with just enough concise detail that it makes sense, but also leaves you wanting more.. Trump is making a great story here.

I've even got semi-Dem friends who don't vote, fence sitters really, who've voted both sides of the aisle before, who are tuning in frequently to see what Trump has to say. Interesting candidate for sure.

Just watching it from half a world away, but this is the first time in my life that your presidential election might not turn out to be yet another Coke vs Pepsi showdown.

I'd vote for Trump too if I were American. We need a leader like that down here instead of our tweedle dum and tweedle dee parties.

(08-18-2015 01:17 AM)StrikeBack Wrote:  Just watching it from half a world away, but this is the first time in my life that your presidential election might not turn out to be yet another Coke vs Pepsi showdown.

I'd vote for Trump too if I were American. We need a leader like that down here instead of our tweedle dum and tweedle dee parties.

Oh come on, SB, you're saying you wouldn't vote for Gough Whitlam Malcolm Turnbull?

(08-17-2015 11:47 PM)Avant-Garde Wrote:  I'm looking forward to Trump explaining the details of his economic plan, specifically addressing evil & greedy corporations that are driven or pressured by Wall Street

What if legislation is introduced that gives corporations/companies a tax break -- no taxes or a tax deduction on revenue that is given as a profit sharing with its workers. This can be an incentive for companies looking to lower their tax profile or taxable income.

Fantastic idea, but it's SOCIALIST and therefore cannot be considered.

America's history lacks centuries of literal and figurative rape by royalty, thus corporation propaganda has managed to make anything but bald-faced greed into a sinful idea.

Conversely, SOCIALIST European countries remember that their owners are not their friends, almost by definition.

America is the best place for winners, no one holds you back, but the little guy is just considered, as Trump puts it, a loser.
There are some token programs like Social Security ( which by the way is over 98-99% efficient-- that much of money put in goes to recipients' checks) . Before that the elderly froze in pitiful desperation in far higher numbers.

(08-17-2015 04:14 PM)MidWest Wrote:  I can see maybe a wall being built, even some illegal immigrants being deported. But ending birthright citizenship is a pipe-dream and not realistic.

I agree, I think 3/4 of states have to ratify?

But a lot can be done at the immigration control level, whether we'd want to is another issue.

1) If you build a wall against new illegals and get current illegal immigrants out gradually, they won't be here to have anchor babies. The anchor babies, and the pursuant dilemma of breaking up families where the kids are citizens and the parents aren't would tail off.

You can handle that politically by "grandfathering" those born before a certain birth date thus preventing their deportation. This is how they chip away at employee's rights, by sedating the current employees.

For instance, after you build The Wall, any "anchor" baby born before Jan 1 2017 would not have their parents deported unless they have a criminal record, whatever criteria you decide. That would prevent current citizen children of illegals and their parents from freaking. If you are born after that date, which will be WELL publicized-- then tough shit you know your family might be broken up.

2) You could have more Orwellian ID and movement control. Pregnant women could be rousted. (I'm sure that would get a LOT of support lolzllz.) Obviously this would never be accepted as it fails the "smell test" of kid gloves with pregnant women.

3) Chinese birth tourists could be denied visas. This is a pretty trivial quantity.

Adamant, doctrinaire opposition against any form of "amnesty" will not play adequately well with the American population which is pretty forgiving for people are in a fix not of their own making. Trump is aware of that, from his statement even about illegals-- "We'll work with them."-- The children of illegal immigrants are in such a fix.

(08-18-2015 01:29 AM)iknowexactly Wrote:  corporation propaganda has managed to make anything but bald-faced greed into a sinful idea.

We're all greedy.
There isn't a single instance of socialism in which the enactors weren't just greedy themselves. It's straight out of a Robert Greene book - if you want to do something that will cause resistance instead of support, say you're doing the exact opposite while you do it. One of the most destructive forces in history has been the 'little guy' giving power to those who claim they will help them.
For all the talk about making everyone equal, and lifting the lower classes up, Mao lived like a king whilst the peasants starved.
There are no angels.

(08-18-2015 01:29 AM)iknowexactly Wrote:  

(08-17-2015 11:47 PM)Avant-Garde Wrote:  I'm looking forward to Trump explaining the details of his economic plan, specifically addressing evil & greedy corporations that are driven or pressured by Wall Street

What if legislation is introduced that gives corporations/companies a tax break -- no taxes or a tax deduction on revenue that is given as a profit sharing with its workers. This can be an incentive for companies looking to lower their tax profile or taxable income.

Fantastic idea, but it's SOCIALIST and therefore cannot be considered.

America's history lacks centuries of literal and figurative rape by royalty, thus corporation propaganda has managed to make anything but bald-faced greed into a sinful idea.

Conversely, SOCIALIST European countries remember that their owners are not their friends, almost by definition.

America is the best place for winners, no one holds you back, but the little guy is just considered, as Trump puts it, a loser.
There are some token programs like Social Security ( which by the way is over 98-99% efficient-- that much of money put in goes to recipients' checks) . Before that the elderly froze in pitiful desperation in far higher numbers.

It isn't socialist, it is getting rid of the corporatism. The opposite of corporatism is not socialism. In fact, the larger the govt. grows, the easier it is to have corporatism.

I wouldn't see Trump pushing for more govt. regulations to fix this, we have seen the failure of this over the last 6 and 1/2 years. I instead see him relaxing regulations that hurt the little guy, such as Obamacare.

Trumptrolled:



Boom, Trumptrolled!



Beyond the wit and humor, this is political genius. It's a two-fold strategy of watering down the more "insensitive" comments from the past with actual troll Tweets, while also focusing on concrete, specific policy proposals through his immigration paper. Most politicians either speak to the intellectual or the common man, one or the other; Trump rallies both.

One thing I really dislike about Trump though is the insane hypocrisy on immigration.

He comes out with a plan to deport all illegal immigrants, yet he himself employs thousands of illegal workers who helped build his hotels. Is he going to start with firing and deporting all his workers? There was recently a press outlet that went and spoke to those illegal workers who are working for him and asked them what they thought about the plan and they basically shrugged their shoulders and said "I mean he's paying so I don't know" How about starting with his workers and replacing them with some of the unemployed Americans and see how that goes.

Funny thing is that they already tried this approach in Alabama which is the first state to pass a law mirroring Romney's immigration plan. The idea was for illegal immigrants to self-deport and leave the jobs previously taken by illegals and give them to Americans who will learn how to do the work and everything would be ok. Well it didn't happen that way and it was an epic fail and many employers wanted the illegals back. Most of the white and Black unemployed people pretty much passed on the idea and they were getting paid higher than the illegals. When the residents of Alabama saw the job openings they passed on the idea which left many crop fields to rot.

America has a work ethic problem.

Vice did a great documentary on this called Sweet Home Alabama. You pretty much see the employers begging the immigrants to come back.

Trump addressed this BS over a month ago in his NBC interview. Sounds like a desperate attempt by the powers that be to discredit Trump.

As for Americans not willing to do the work. Of course they will not right now. We are bankrupting our kids futures to pay for them not to work so they keep voting Democrat. That will not last forever and soon enough they will get cut off and have no choice to do this work or starve.

People will do the work when paid enough to make it worth their while. If the government pays them more to sit home they certainly are not going to go work out in a field under the hot sun.

Midwest's example simply reinforces the fact illegals depress wages and have for decades.

Here in WI the big dairy farms are screaming the same bullshit; "We'll go broke if we lose our illegals." No, you will have to hire WI farmboys at a decent wage to run your farms.

Landscape companies? Same thing.

Sorry, it may cost you a few bucks more to get your lawn mowed. That's the cost of having a secure country.

(08-18-2015 03:10 AM)MidWest Wrote:  One thing I really dislike about Trump though is the insane hypocrisy on immigration.

He comes out with a plan to deport all illegal immigrants, yet he himself employs thousands of illegal workers who helped build his hotels. Is he going to start with firing and deporting all his workers? There was recently a press outlet that went and spoke to those illegal workers who are working for him and asked them what they thought about the plan and they basically shrugged their shoulders and said "I mean he's paying so I don't know" How about starting with his workers and replacing them with some of the unemployed Americans and see how that goes.

Funny thing is that they already tried this approach in Alabama which is the first state to pass a law mirroring Romney's immigration plan. The idea was for illegal immigrants to self-deport and leave the jobs previously taken by illegals and give them to Americans who will learn how to do the work and everything would be ok. Well it didn't happen that way and it was an epic fail and many employers wanted the illegals back. Most of the white and Black unemployed people pretty much passed on the idea and they were getting paid higher than the illegals. When the residents of Alabama saw the job openings they passed on the idea which left many crop fields to rot.

America has a work ethic problem.

Vice did a great documentary on this called Sweet Home Alabama. You pretty much see the employers begging the immigrants to come back.

Trump employs illegals for the same reason he has manufacturing in China: he has to in order to remain competitive with other businesses.

Trump doesn't want to hire illegals or use cheap Chinese labor, so that's why he's running for Pres in order to fix these problems. Businesses just do whatever they need to in order to make the most money. Capitalism. You cannot expect them to do the right thing. The government has to create the incentives for businesses to do the right thing, and that's what Trump intends to do.

Well, illegals are certainly committing the crimes that American's won't commit, that's for sure. In the last few years a friend of mine had someone break into his house (very rare occurrence here) and steal his nice Macbook Pro. It turned up with an illegal. A kid on a bicycle was riding along our river trail and 3 illegals stabbed him 9 times to steal his bike and left him for dead (the local paper was honest enough to report that Spanish and English were both spoken). That kind of thing just doesn't happen here. Those are just two examples I know of and I don't pay close attention to local news.

I saw the Vice documentary, but I am not sold on them doing jobs that Americans won't do. That is a load of bullshit, really. Take away the welfare.

White Americans were roughly 90% of the population in 1960 and we built a nation that simultaneously defeated Germany and Japan and put a man on the moon. We didn't need Mexicans or illegals. Somehow we managed to feed ourselves, clean our houses, and have a valid economy without them. I always found that to be such a dishonest argument. As an example, before the financial crises in 2008 almost all of the fast food joints around town had Mexicans everywhere. Communicating was a pain in the ass over the speaker at the drive through. Now, and ever since the financial crisis, I see majority white people working fast food joints (I live in an area that is 85% white). Communicating is easy now.

In fact I saw such a beautiful girl working at the gas station the other day. That's a sure fire sign the labor market is very tight at the bottom, but she took the job at crappy pay. The fact of the matter is that most Americans don't want to do hard work for such a debased pay, thanks in a large part to illegal immigrants. Most Americans will take these jobs, however, even at crappy pay in a bad economy, if necessary.

The welfare bums are just lazy failed people. If someone didn't want to work and they were able bodied, personally I would let them starve. They'd change their minds pretty quickly.

Another example; Railroad contractors

All of the bigger outfits that do rail and tie replacement for the railroads are FULL of illegals. They make about 10-12 dollars an hour doing jobs that the railroad's own employees are paid 22-30 an hour for. And of course the railroad employees have health insurance, railroad retirement, etc. The illegals do not. Add it all up and the illegals are about 25 dollars or more an hour cheaper than the railroad's employees.

Adds up fast when you have 30+ guys rail gang. ($750 an hour, $7500 per 10 hour day, for those that don't want to do the math.)

Is it any wonder the railroads have turned to using contractors for projects beyond simple maintenance?

And yes, I know this from first hand experience. I'm a railroad contractor.

(08-18-2015 04:24 AM)Hotwheels Wrote:  Another example; Railroad contractors

All of the bigger outfits that do rail and tie replacement for the railroads are FULL of illegals. They make about 10-12 dollars an hour doing jobs that the railroad's own employees are paid 22-30 an hour for. And of course the railroad employees have health insurance, railroad retirement, etc. The illegals do not. Add it all up and the illegals are about 25 dollars or more an hour cheaper than the railroad's employees.

Adds up fast when you have 30+ guys rail gang. ($750 an hour, $7500 per 10 hour day, for those that don't want to do the math.)

Is it any wonder the railroads have turned to using contractors for projects beyond simple maintenance?

And yes, I know this from first hand experience. I'm a railroad contractor.

That is how you destroy the middle class. Who benefits? The shareholders? If I recall correctly, only 6% of Americans own equities outside of their 401k. Who pays? Everyone else.

The first thing these illegals do is pop out an anchor baby, then they qualify for a whole host of benefits and cannot be deported. They don't buy car insurance. They don't pay property taxes. They don't buy health insurance. They get food stamps, Medicare, and free education for their children (often in Spanish), while sending their wages back home. We get the crime, the higher car and health insurance rates, higher taxes, less community cohesion, the threat of demographic displacement, the latino vote, and lower wages. For what? Authentic burritos? Cheaper maid services and lawn mowing?

No thanks.

This whole situation would be incomprehensible if the left didn't transition from economic to cultural Marxist philosophy. When the left transitioned to identity politics as it's foremost strategy, as opposed to championing the so-called economic rights of the working class, then businesses were free to seek cheap labor and it became a symbiotic relationship. As long as the immigrants remain non-white and can be used as an identity block against the majority, the relationship will continue for the Democrats.

Republicans, being the party which cares more about big business than the working class, never did a thing to stop the situation. This frankly was the most amazing thing, because you can't out-pander the Democrats. They somehow allowed themselves to be convinced that Latinos are "natural conservatives" by virtue of the fact that they are Catholic (anti-abortion) and have family values. Never mind the fact each country from Mexico south actually votes for socialism and has decade after decade. The Republican leadership was stupid. They believed that campaigning against immigration and for welfare reform, two things necessary to win white middle class votes, would win them Latino votes if they swore they weren't secret racists! Ha! The dirty secret is that illegals will never vote Republican and if they are allowed to remain to stay, the Democrats will end up with a demographic majority that will last forever. The nation will become like California, or Mexico for that matter, with one party rule for 50+ years sending people like Nancy Pelosi to Washington perpetually.

That is the future. Or was the future. Now, at one minute to midnight, we have Trump saying he'll send them all back and that he'll make America great again.

One final point. If Trump is going to deport millions and fight to repeal birth right citizenship, then he needs to repeal it retroactively. Otherwise all of the kids who were deported with their parents will return later, legally, and we will have just bought ourselves 20 years or so, but will find ourselves in the same place as today in political terms.

Trump is Batman