Always debate! Iron sharpens iron.
Maybe I was parking lot pimping wrong! Maybe I needed some 20" chrome rims? Not the stock clean mesh style that I like.

Banged a chick when I had the 5 series.
We were gonna do lunch, and she said "you would drive a player car" *grins*

But

Parlaying outside the venue, *crickets*

There is dynamic when it comes to "stuff"

If you're a good looking guy, a celebrity, already have some value to the chick - she loves everything you do.

Like Mahershala Ali can wear a turtle neck sweater and look cool in it, because he's cool. He makes the clothes look cool.

But a regular dude puts on turtleneck, and he's a clown. I see so many dorks with beards and tattoos that do nothing for them.

Occasionally, a guy wears something, buys something, does something, that is cool.

Remember how dorky judo was back in the day? Now MMA is cool.

That's why I'm generally against externality. You're speculating on what attracts, as opposed to dealing with her head.

WIA

Funny you mentioned the 5 series, lol. I just picked up a 6 year old 528i. It still looks, drives and even smells new and the same bish commenting on how nice my ride was hit me with her GoFundMe page!
My parking lot pimping days are over, but even then, most of those pulls was SNL's.
I'm to the point now of just flat out emphasizing to bishes how saddled with student loan debt and child support I am before they can purse their gold digging lips to ask for something. I swear I don't have shit to offer these bishes but hard dyck and bubble gum and I'm fresh out of gum, lol.

@Basket

Voice is one those topics that require break down.

Enunciation and diction are key, but for loud night game situations, being able to project your voice is the biggest win. Everyone can be loud, but you have to be able to always talk BIG. That's not a physical issue, but understanding the mindset. A stage actor does it all the time, you need some of that in you - and that doesn't come from books. Stanislaw isn't going to teach you that via a book.

As for reading books, the point of the post is how to use money to save you time.

You *could* learn everything through reading and self experimentation, but an expert/classes cuts the time. And time is the only thing we don't get more of.

With dancing, the problem is that it's physical skill - 8 hours in a row would be better than 4 two hour classes spread out over a month. You need the feedback and repetition.

Game is like that, but the problem is that game is a lot less structured.

Social circle game is THE killer app, but you can only be sure that social circle game worked if you bang a chick that is a friend of a friend of a friend. The only reason you know that girl is because you went to a house party or a group dinner. Lots of bitches have active lifestyles that have nothing to do with the night life.

WIA

I don't see money vs looks vs game as a debate. They are all connected. I'll give my analogy on how I think it works.

Think of it like a video game.
Your game= Skills
Looks/money= Difficulty level of game

Having money/looks decreases the difficulty you face in the game.

Easy= Tall White guy Millionaire
Normal= 5' 9" white guy accountant
Hard= $30K/year Black man
Difficult= 5' 3" fob Indian

I'm not saying that the tall white guy will always win, but you need skill at the higher difficulty levels to finish faster than the player at easy. It's not impossible, but you have to do work.

iso, that is a great analogy! I know guys who used to clock street fighter 2 with 20p (one credit)!! I know guys that shoved 20 pounds in but couldn't get past Blanka!!

^^I don't think you are reading what people are saying, guys like Archie, Moma and myself aren't talking out of our ass.

Archie stated he got more ass in his Honda, than he did his Benz. I stated the same thing, which means if a chick digs you she doesn't care about your ride.

Wearing a tailored suit with pocket square, doesn't work for me. Christ, lately if I go out and I am too clean people think I am 5-0. Moma said he gets the same reaction from the hood chicks.
I wore my best suit out to a club last year, one cocktail waitress was up my ass and a high class escort propositioned me. The waitress was hot but she talked money the whole time, so I let that slide.

I don't subscribe to the notion that a tall white guy with money is game on easy mode. Sure girls will be on him because of the money, but if he is cheap she will be gone like the wind. Most guys I know with money are cheap.

Either way, I don't worry about rich white guys or Indian FOBs. I worry about how I can improve my game.

Now enough with the theories, what are you doing to improve your game? or even your life.

I checked out the Kizzomba classes in my city, the crowd looks lame and looks like the Salsa crowd from a few years back.

I am saving money for this French class in the spring, my intel says you get some good ass in the class. I could learn French on my own, I am intermediate level but I need an excuse to get out a lot more.

I am liking Instagram game, I have girls comment on my pics in person. I have used old holidays pics and posted them on like they are new, more than a few guys have been up my ass about what do I do for a living.

(02-28-2017 06:53 PM)Moma Wrote:  iso, that is a great analogy! I know guys who used to clock street fighter 2 with 20p (one credit)!! I know guys that shoved 20 pounds in but couldn't get past Blanka!!

Lupe Fiasco couldn't get past Blanka either.

"I love Street Fighter 2, I just really hate Zangief
Only Ken and Ryu, I find it hard to beat Blanka"

https://genius.com/Lupe-fiasco-gold-watch-lyrics

(02-28-2017 06:38 PM)Iso Wrote:  I don't see money vs looks vs game as a debate. They are all connected. I'll give my analogy on how I think it works.

Think of it like a video game.
Your game= Skills
Looks/money= Difficulty level of game

Having money/looks decreases the difficulty you face in the game.

Easy= Tall White guy Millionaire
Normal= 5' 9" white guy accountant
Hard= $30K/year Black man
Difficult= 5' 3" fob Indian

I'm not saying that the tall white guy will always win, but you need skill at the higher difficulty levels to finish faster than the player at easy. It's not impossible, but you have to do work.

Is the difficulty level based on location or no? In certain games, certain characters were easier to use in certain situations than others. I think Chun Li could just trap Blanka in the corner and 1000 kick his bytch ass to death by hammering down on medium kick.

Take that analogy and difficulty level to game.

Man wants to sex tons of white lizards and is not interested in LTR. His location is confined to Scandinavia, let's say Denmark. Start game.

Lexington Steele with a mill in the account vs Channing Tatum.

What are their respective difficulty levels? Doesn't Channing slide higher up on difficulty level due to the fact there are millions of his type in Scandinavia whereas black guys like Lex are far more exotic?

(02-28-2017 06:38 PM)Iso Wrote:  I don't see money vs looks vs game as a debate. They are all connected. I'll give my analogy on how I think it works.

Think of it like a video game.
Your game= Skills
Looks/money= Difficulty level of game

Having money/looks decreases the difficulty you face in the game.

Easy= Tall White guy Millionaire
Normal= 5' 9" white guy accountant
Hard= $30K/year Black man
Difficult= 5' 3" fob Indian

I'm not saying that the tall white guy will always win, but you need skill at the higher difficulty levels to finish faster than the player at easy. It's not impossible, but you have to do work.

I fully endorse this analogy. Fantastic illustration of the dynamics associated with money/looks/game.
To tie this in to what I've been saying, working on all aspects of you (game + looks + money) and bringing them all up to their fullest potential brings your difficulty level (and potential success rate) up to its highest potential.
Just because you aren't Matt McConaughey, Christian Grey, or Don Draper doesn't mean you can't substantially reduce your difficulty and improve your success by taking the holistic approach and becoming the best version of yourself.

(02-28-2017 08:04 PM)Moma Wrote:  Is the difficulty level based on location or no? In certain games, certain characters were easier to use in certain situations than others. I think Chun Li could just trap Blanka in the corner and 1000 kick his bytch ass to death by hammering down on medium kick.

Take that analogy and difficulty level to game.

Man wants to sex tons of white lizards and is not interested in LTR. His location is confined to Scandinavia, let's say Denmark. Start game.

Lexington Steele with a mill in the account vs Channing Tatum.

What are their respective difficulty levels? Doesn't Channing slide higher up on difficulty level due to the fact there are millions of his type in Scandinavia whereas black guys like Lex are far more exotic?

Yes, location matters and influences the difficulty of the game. What constitutes easy, normal, or hard mode will vary depending on where you are. That's why I have been mentioning the importance of geo-arbitrage - what you are in your current location is not necessarily what you're forever destined to be.
Maybe you're 30k/yr black guy in Boston or Philly. This is identified by Iso as "hard mode" and I agree - your game will need to be much tighter than 5'9" white accountant in that same spot just to get the same consistent results/quality, and you'd need near mastery in order to come close to the kind of quality tall white millionaire gets with relative ease.

But switch venues and things change. Let's say 30k/yr black guy dilligently plans and works to become location independent. He takes advantage of geo-arbitrage game, and leaves Boston/Philly to land in, say, the Dominican Republic.
His 30k/yr put him at a pretty big disadvantage in the expensive American northeast, but in the DR he's quite well off. In a financial context, he just went from Tajh Boyd to Tyrod Taylor (or, if you're into basketball, from Jimmer Fredette or Keith Benson to Iman Shumpert or JR Smith) with one move. His game is still where it was (honed to a fairly solid level after years in a tough environment), and let's say his fitness is solid.

30k/yr black guy is no longer on hard mode. With his move, I'd say he's throttled things down to normal or easy. And you could say the same thing had he moved to some parts of eastern europe, many other places in Latin America, or some southeast asian nations.

As for the Lex vs. Channing Scandinavia hypothetical, I think we have a similar situation. In Boston or Philly, Channing Tatum is the clear winner, even if Lex has a mill in the bank. Tatum will be on easy mode, Lex probably on at best Normal - he'll need significantly tighter game to get the same results Channing manages.

In Scandinavia, you might switch that around. In Helsinki, Reykjavik, Copenhagen, etc, I think Lex is closer to easy mode and Channing closer to normal. As you said, Lex stands out - Channing is standard, and both are in an environment where there is a known demand for Lex's physique and a scarcity of it.

Have you been to Scandinavia or DR?

I've been to both and it's not that cut n dry.

Bad game is bad game, doesn't matter where you go.

There is a reason why so many guys keep visiting the same spots in the travel section.

(02-28-2017 12:35 PM)DimeBait Wrote:  Funny you mentioned the 5 series, lol. I just picked up a 6 year old 528i. It still looks, drives and even smells new and the same bish commenting on how nice my ride was hit me with her GoFundMe page!
My parking lot pimping days are over, but even then, most of those pulls was SNL's.
I'm to the point now of just flat out emphasizing to bishes how saddled with student loan debt and child support I am before they can purse their gold digging lips to ask for something. I swear I don't have shit to offer these bishes but hard dyck and bubble gum and I'm fresh out of gum, lol.

I'm gonna buy another one at some point. A 2003 5 series (e39), but i'm gonna do an LS Swap on it. I saw this clean 740i on Sunday (e38).

Life's too short to drive boring cars

WIA

(02-28-2017 09:54 PM)rudebwoy Wrote:  Have you been to Scandinavia or DR?

I've been to both and it's not that cut n dry.

Bad game is bad game, doesn't matter where you go.

There is a reason why so many guys keep visiting the same spots in the travel section.

Cause they can go where game doesn't matter?

WIA

^ We have a winner.

I love that Bimmer, it's a classic.

We’ve been over this looks, height, money, game debate multiple times, but Im with Excelsior on this. Where newbies tend to vastly overestimate the effect of these things in getting laid, especially on the forum there seems to be a counter-limiting denial about the effect these things have. Game is indeed a great leveler, but it does have certain limits.

Here’s my take on the whole thing –

Muscles, height, money, hygiene, cultural relevance - in terms of relatability (accent, looks, background) versus contrast as in the case Rudebwoy mentioned above… so long as you have a certain basal level of these, it is relatively easy to get laid. When you significantly lack in one or more of these characteristics, such as when you’re dirt poor, super old, very short, drug addled, generally unhygienic, significantly unrelateable in a negative sense (such as the IRT stereotype, for instance), severely deformed or very unintelligent, you need to overcompensate exponentially in one or more of the other categories to be successful…and a lot of times, these result in unlocking a specific niche of the dating market. Common examples include fat women who target muscular black men, girls who jump from one abusive relationship to another, a certain “world traveler” niche, FOBS or women of a certain race/background, the bodybuilder niche, gold diggers, social media whores (niche fame game), women turned on by random shit like beards/body hair/certain languages etc. Nothing wrong with parlaying your conditions to exploit a certain niche of course, but assuming that one wants to stay open to a more universal range of women, the more you improve on multiple aspects, greater the degrees of freedom afforded to you, the easier it should get. Of course, outliers exist such as Distant Light, the photographer guy who used to post on the forum, thegreenman, even Roosh, to an extent, and these exceptions often get thrown around in arguments as examples that you don’t need one or more of the criteria mentioned above – but these exceptions essentially prove the rule.

If, however, one does wish to focus on one aspect significantly more than the others, I’d highly, highly recommend developing social skills, not limited to specific game tactics even though game and socializing have a large overlap. Perhaps even more importantly, stay open to possibilities. Talk to everyone, men, women, other genders, and about everything under the sun. Be interested in what other people have to say, and over time you’ll become a more interesting man through sheer exposure to different ideas, information and value systems. Socializing is not a “gift” but a skill that can be greatly improved through repeated practice. The law of diminishing returns is very gentle on socializing. With reference to getting laid and also perhaps life (although Im not old or successful enough to talk about “life”), continuously building and developing social circles is one of the most rewarding and important things one can do for a lot of reasons. Of course, for results-oriented people it may not yield great results in the short term due to the attribution problem WIA noted earlier, as opposed to say, doing a 100 direct approaches, closing 30 birds and getting a lay% of 3.33(repeating of course). But social circle game has a lot of advantages over other forms, especially being able to smash through LMRs and perceived biases and preferences (bec lets be honest, most women often do not have the slightest idea of they want in a man and tend to adopt standard cookie cutter garabge such has 6ft, handsome, should make me laugh, should treat me right etc), social proof, casually building comfort and intrigue.

Think of it in terms of getting a job – direct approaching is like applying to a job online --- there’s probably a hundred other similar applicants and unless you have a specific skill set or something that stands out within a short time window, you’re going to become spam fodder. Social circle game is like the traditional networking model where you develop relationships with a set of people based on mutual interest and can leverage those relationships over time to find better opportunities whether passively just because someone likes you or actively having these people look out internally for jobs. You could spam a 100 jobs online in a day with shit conversion or 10 jobs over a month where you walk in vetted and vouched for with a significant edge over the competition, and have access to opportunities not even listed on the open market. Not advocating one over the other of course, but its just more efficient over the long run.

There’s so much to talk about developing and improving social circles to be honest, perhaps specific examples might illustrate the point better. Just wanted to note that socializing is the single most important, adaptable and effective way to get laid for anyone who isn’t operating in the topmost echelons of looks money etc.

"outliers"

man i hate that fucking word.
That shit is not even real man. Outliers exist because people are lazy. Everyone is capable of being outliers. There was a time when homo erectus was an outlier. Now its the norm.
You know what we the former "outliers" call homo sapiens?

"Inferior"

You want to be great do it. its that fucking simple.
And yes that shit works me up. Nothing stops a man from being exceptional except himself.

"The biggest lie in boxing is 'it's not that simple'."
-Vinny Pazienza

edit:



#RNS

(02-28-2017 09:54 PM)rudebwoy Wrote:  Have you been to Scandinavia or DR?

I've been to both and it's not that cut n dry.

Bad game is bad game, doesn't matter where you go.

There is a reason why so many guys keep visiting the same spots in the travel section.

Where are we disagreeing? I'm not seeing it.

Bad game is bad game. I didn't claim the contrary. What I did claim was that, due to geographical variations in female preference and certain socio-economic disparities, one can get different results in different places with the same level of game.
In short, a guy running game in one place can get vastly superior results running precisely the same level of game in another. That's the foundation of my argument.

I haven't been to Scandinavia or the DR, nor any of the other places I listed in that post (except the UK and Canada). However, I know of many reputable, knowledgeable, credible members who have been to those places, and it is from their many accounts that I am drawing my conclusions regarding the notion that a dude running game in one spot can plant himself in another and get much better results without a substantial improvement in his game.
You're one of those members:

(12-08-2015 05:35 PM)rudebwoy Wrote:  I would move to Europe if I had a good job opportunity, I have lived there before and it was beyond easy. There is no denying a black man can get a far superior white woman in Europe. There are tons of guys on this forum who can vouch for that, trust me I get bombarded with the pics.

I am not making light of the situation, the competition isn't as harsh over there like it is in North America.

(05-18-2016 09:46 AM)rudebwoy Wrote:  

(05-18-2016 09:05 AM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  

(05-17-2016 09:27 PM)BossOfBosses Wrote:  Why does it seem like Nordic/Blonde girls disproportionately like black dudes? Whether it's Nordic/Scandanavian countries or US cities with high percentages of people of Scandinavian descent it's a phenomenon I notice quite a lot.

Exotic factor and novelty and genes...

And being Western helps a lot.

Straight from the motherland without finance is a barrier to romance.

WIA

African guys kill it in Scandinavia as well.

Money is not needed, just have some style.

I have been to all the Nordic countries except Finland, which I hear is the easiest.

Opposites attract is the only explanation I can give.

Feminism is strong there, but it is much nicer than the western version. A girl will not allow you to buy her a drink and sex is a natural thing, no such thing as slut shaming.

(02-20-2017 11:07 PM)rudebwoy Wrote:  There is no shame in not being able to game girls in a certain location, doesn't need to be justified.

I can't replicate the results I got in Europe in Toronto. It's a different culture with a different mindset.

(07-21-2016 07:45 PM)rudebwoy Wrote:  I find no matter how liberal a American girl is, there is too much "history" and bad propaganda against blacks for her to look past.

Dating European girls tends to be easier, they will generally see you as a black guy from the UK or Africa or America. I am not saying they are perfect, but depending what country they are from they will be more traditional and as was stated earlier, bring you breakfast in bed.

(06-02-2016 09:56 AM)rudebwoy Wrote:  262 - tell me more what "game" you use in Europe? Why would I need to be part of a social circle?

I am sure you are aware that Moma and I were born in the UK and lived there for several years. So we are not talking out of our arses or talking politics when we live in our mothers basement.
I have traveled Europe quite a bit and met quite a few girls, not all did I bang. We can talk feminism, obesity, RSD, skin colour (funny since I never mentioned skin colour) but WE both know that women in Europe have less hang ups and are much easier to deal with.

Kirdiesel - the only thing stopping you from getting a 8 or above in Germany is status and money. Germany we can agree on is a favourable spot for the black man, I know Americans and Africans who have done well there. The few times I passed through Germany, I had the opportunity to game very nice looking girls.

The last time I was in Germany (Nuremburg Airport), I was sitting in the departure lounge waiting for my plane back to London. I could feel eyes on me, I glanced to the right and saw two blonde Lufthansa flight attendants staring at me like I was Tyson Beckford. Trust me I look nothing like him.

(06-01-2016 10:20 AM)rudebwoy Wrote:  Visiting Europe, Game is not needed. You need time and a bit of money to be able to stay for two weeks minimum to fully enjoy the place.

In Toronto, you need the stars to be aligned. Super tight game, status and god knows what else to game a 6 or 7.

^That last post is basically a direct illustration of my argument. $30k/year black guy in Toronto might be on hard mode (probably not dissimilar in Boston, Philly, [insert cold northeastern major city here]) and, as you say, would need to game at a very high level just to get even OK results. However, in Europe (say, Scandinavia or somewhere further east) he may have the potential to upgrade to normal or easy mode simply via relocation (absent any significant improvements in his game). That upgrade would come solely from the variations in the markets - the market is less competitive and the female preference is less averse to his physical type. None of that is out of line with what you (a highly experienced, reputable member with extensive European travels) have said.

I can sit here all night and find posts like this from many members and others elsewhere online. As you said, there are tons of men (here on RVF and elsewhere) who will vouch for all of the above. You and Moma are highly credible, respected members with 80 years of experience between you and you both have basically affirmed the gist of my argument in this post multiple times (which is, again, that difficulty levels for men can vary by location).

What more confirmation do I need?

@Excelsior

Is this line of thinking actually helping you bag chicks?

WIA

Excelsior spot on as usual.

I am accumulating a lot of lizards and trying to score them all. They are not ONS so I have to run the dates. I am not a fan of hearty appetizers etc. What is the most cost effective fashion that you guys would run this? Bear in mind, I am working a full 40 hour work week so this has to be after work. I am looking for cheap yet sexual date strategies.

(03-01-2017 07:06 AM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  @Excelsior

Is this line of thinking actually helping you bag chicks?

WIA

Yes.

It is helping me get more notches (with substantially more consistency).
It is helping me focus my energy more efficiently (playing to my strengths instead of playing to the strengths of people who aren't me).
It is helping me avoid mental bog down and keep a clearer mind.
It is helping me to stay focused on a a solution (an actual end game that works for me and fits me specifically), as opposed to wallowing in self doubt, frustration, anger, and misery (which was the previous state of affairs when I took the approach several are suggesting here before I began taking this current approach and understanding its efficacy).

All of the approaches I've been mentioning in this thread work for me. I'm voicing them here because I believe they may work for other men too.

@moma

If you live in a city often times a good hike to a lookout point over the city will work as a date, girls like it because it it's a mix of an outdoor activity + something cool (like a view). Also you can bring boozes or whatever you like to ingest to make the hike fun. Its a cheap easy date that you can recycle per date.

(03-01-2017 02:29 PM)Moma Wrote:  I am accumulating a lot of lizards and trying to score them all. They are not ONS so I have to run the dates. I am not a fan of hearty appetizers etc. What is the most cost effective fashion that you guys would run this? Bear in mind, I am working a full 40 hour work week so this has to be after work. I am looking for cheap yet sexual date strategies.

This has been on my mind alot lately. I've been averaging about $25 per meet n greet and averaging about 4 per week. (I set a goal to meet/game 100 bishes before even thinking about re-settling down). At $400/ month, this shit is unsustainable. I'm about to start inviting bishes for a hike, to the library, volunteering at the homeless shelter and along with me while I run errands to cut down costs.

Excelsior, what is your strategy? Are you out for lays or LTR? Either or, how do you set out to accomplish this? Give me some of your overt strategies, please.

Best return on dollars
1) 9 pm date for drinks very close to your apartment + game
2) Continue drinks/Naija treats and conversation at your spot.
3) *grey goose bottle filled with cheap alcohol*
*box of wine*
4)I'll just drop you off in the morning
5) No pants rule for sleeping in my bed

WIA

For you guys with a physique,
1) shoes off at the door

2) soon after you walk in, take your shirt off, with her in view like it's totally normal, walk over to closet, let her watch you put on a t-shirt.

"You don't mind do you, this starch is killing me"

3) continue to run game with heightened sexuality but lowered formality

WIA