Soup,

I doubt he bought all of that ammo and mags in one trip. He doesn't go into it in the manifesto but looks like he bought two or three handguns, completely legally, using money he was given by family (mainly mother and grandmothers) for living expenses. He intended to go through with his day of retribution for at least a year.

Buying 40 mags and 400+ rounds of ammo in one trip at one store? That raises eyebrows. Doing it across multiple stores and over a long time? Buying mags online? Just another customer.

(05-25-2014 08:35 AM)Onto Wrote:  Yeah, that's what I suspected. Much like the Adam Lanza case, I think being exposed to the bad Mother lays the foundation for this type of crime.

What's really troubling him is not that women don't want him, it was that his Mother and/or StepMother never wanted him.

It's not surprising that he unconcously arranges his life in such a way that he's always without love from the feminine (The Mother). I think a lot of men who were raised by this kind of Mother do this, but what makes a particular one go on a killing spree?

It could be because he didn't have anywhere else to point the finger as to why he was unsuccessful with women.

If he were ugly, old or poor he could point his finger there and be free of the question. Since this kid had "everything" and much more than most guys, he couldn't point his finger to where the negative was.

When there is no where to point the finger to, a persons suffering can heat up hotter than a volcano. George Eastman's suicide note gives a glimpse into this kind of predicament as a man who has everything that life can offer and is still unfulfilled. The real place to point the finger is not outward, but inward.

Often I see pictures of Jesus Christ with his finger pointing inwards toward his chest/heart and I think that's the message that painting is trying to get across. There are probably other religious paintings that have a similar imagery. Interestingly, George Eastman did point his finger inwards at the end, though it was sadly done symbolically with a shotgun.

Not saying there aren't other factors probably involved also like entitlement, lack of discipline and hard work growing up.

The more evidence that comes in, the more convinced I am of my diagnosis of childhood abuse; one or both of the mother figures were extremely emotionally distant, and by some accounts the father appears to have been the same way. My loose guess is that at least one person was a narcissist, and one of the others was possibly a psychopath. Elliot became a codependent, and was trying to manifest the behaviour of a narcissist/psychopath (you can't be both, but a codependent can pretend to be either). This is why so many have mistaken him for a narcissist, despite the obvious cracks in the facade - heck, he looks like he's about o breakdown in uncontrollable tears in every video (psychopaths only cry controlled tears).

Remember: by definition, your childhood is *always* normal. It's the only childhood you have to judge it by. This kid needed to look back over his life and realize that the way his mother/stepmother/father treated him was screwed up, that he deserved treatment that was far more loving - that the black mark on his soul came from the pain they caused him. But he assumed that every childhood was the same as his, and never addressed it; so instead he took it out on the outside world.

I think you're also correct that his looks and wealth prevented him from scapegoating his problems on something else.

Ultimately, though, he made the choice to pursue evil.

(05-25-2014 08:55 AM)Quintus Curtius Wrote:  The questions that interest me are:

1. To what extent is sexual envy a trigger for pre-existing mental illness? Is there a causal connection?

2. Are these types of "rampage" murder sprees more common now than in past decades? If so, why?

3. Is there any connection between bullying, spree crimes, and extreme sexual frustration? If so, what does that indicate about the type of society we're living in? Are we creating a toxic environment for certain types of people?

For me, I just see too many similarities between this incident and the many previous "spree murder" incidents, for us to just shrug our shoulders and say it's all an anomaly.

I really do believe that our modern society is breeding (or triggering) a certain type of defective personality who, in past eras, was always able to remain dormant.

While saying "Game could have prevented this" is overly simplistic in my eyes, the broader strokes of what we write about - the institutionalization of masculinity in schools, female hypergamy run amok, a corporate/welfare state that relieves women of financial hardship while increasing the demands upon men, and the breakdown of any culture outside of MTV - all of this has led to a toxic situation where men are left adrift, and women are encouraged to be as irresponsible as possible (none of these "empowered women" have any sort of savings, of course).

This kid was too far gone for game to help him, but the environment that demands that we learn game is the same environment which causes people like him to become as messed up as they are.

I have read the comments on here about how he was "good-looking".

Our assessments mean nothing, looking closely his features are effeminate and he was short.

His was not the look that gets the bang.

Its better to be the tall, "ugly" but masculine looking thug who gets the bang.

Not hating just saying.

So we start with having the wrong look, then we have the feminine mannerisms and world view he got being raised by his mother, and you have a recipe for women laughing at and rejecting him.

Combine young women's cruelty with his being narcissistic and mentally ill and sadly this is what's happened.

(05-25-2014 11:11 AM)ManAbout Wrote:  How are feminists blaming this on patriarchy when the most significant influence in his life is female, his mother?

Even if you didn't read his manifesto, watching his videos he comes as more feminine than masculine. Everything from his mannerisms to his body structure are androgynous. In fact, this is what a product of that genderless society that feminists are clamoring for looks like. He is the male equivalent of the woman with short hair.

This is in fact the result of MATRIARCHY. Yes, he was brought up under the influence of his mother, while his father started a new family with the step-mother. There was no strong male influence in his life. So where did he learn about how to deal with women or to even be the masculine male that women want? From his mother.

He grew up a feminized, "supreme gentleman", because that is what happens when you are brought up by a mother. His ideas about what women wanted were completely wrong. It doesn't look like he was ever involved in any sports or other activities that boost your testosterone levels. This is the story of a feminized boy who grows up to realize that he is not the type of "man" women want which causes him to snap.

It should be seen as a cautionary tale for those who think a woman can fulfill the roles of both the mother and father. We are going to see a lot more of this.

Yes.

Reading his manifesto one thing stands out:

Elliot Rodger hated his mother. She was his first and primary target. At the same time he longed for her approval and called her to cry on her shoulder. He expected love from her and was enraged when he did not get. He then repeated this pattern with all women, to horrific results.

The more I learn, the more I'm convinced poor mothering is at the root of many societal issues.

I don't know about you guys but this hits a bit too close to home.

The VA tech guy, Lanza, and now Rodger all have startling similarities and complexes. With each subsequent rampage, their manifestos are starting to get more and more specific.

Rodger was the one were its becoming obvious. How soon will it be when we have one guy going, " I went on a rampage because I am sick of being a loser guy. The feminizing bull shit of our society drove me to this." In some manifesto style video?

It's only a matter of time and then these reasons will become as obvious as day. Angry, lonely guys acting out out of aggression. But this time, it won't be young guys but men in offices', engineers, schools, the places where smart but otherwise socially awkward men congregate and then announce that enough is enough.

Rodger was an over entitled prick, but the effects of what drove him to this will hit other lonely men in other parts of society. This should be a red flag to all that even money, connections, hollywood father, and the like can't even prevent someone like him from going on a rampage. The real solution to this problem are good old fashioned male mentors of which none are available in civilian life. He would have never enlisted either which could have given him a challenge in his life.

This is what our culture creates in young men.

I don't know if this has been posted already

From Policymic.com
http://www.policymic.com/articles/89905/...t-misogyny

TLDR version:

What happened in Santa Barbara is nothing less than a hate crime, and yet mainstream news outlets are distilling the issue to "mental illness" and "premeditated mass murder." Although we should be shocked by Elliot Rodger's actions, we should not be surprised. In fact, most school shootings share chillingly similar characteristics. It's time we stop treating these incidents as anomalies and start recognizing the deep societal issues at play.


1. Men commit most school shootings

-They add that Even in the aftermath of the tragedy in Santa Barbara, a pick-up artist group (many of which often classify as MRAs) left a horrendous comment publicizing their services, as if their view of entitlement to women were valid in the first place.
(showing the quote from the PUA guy who ask people to suscribe to his products to avoid this kind of shit)


2. Most school shooters are white
(Here our dear Samseau is supposed to make an appearance and give us some light)


3. Most victims of school shootings are female

Although it's rarely addressed by the media, most victims of school shootings are female. Indeed, according to a blogger at RadFem Reader who compiled the sex of school shootings, female students are twice as likely to be injured than male students, but news outlets often rarely even bother to give the sex of those who were injured.

Although we often talk about the fact that men perpetuate most violent acts, we rarely acknowledge the other side of that equation: Women are most often victimized by men.


-Sure, male people are "insert some percentage" as likely to be found guilty of rape even without evidence/ lose custody of the kids or their assets etc etc than female people, but news outlets often rarely even bother to give the name of the guy accused.
Wait, actually they always do it for a male.


4. Many school shooters target females who have rejected them in the past


5. Most gunmen exhibit a large sense of entitlement

We live in a society where being white and male affords one with countless privileges and, for some, a toxic sense of entitlement. As Michael Kimmel explains, "righteous retaliation is a deeply held, almost sacred, tenant of masculinity: if you are aggrieved, you are entitled to retribution. American men don't just get mad, we get even."

-> Call for Samseau again


6. Many school shootings could qualify as hate crimes against women and girls


To end the article she cites this

"So far, two women have been reported dead, with more victims still in serious condition. "



Elizabeth is the Executive Social Editor at PolicyMic. She has a Masters degree from the London School of Economics and has experience in the field of behavioural science and women's advocacy.



A list of articles from the website

Is Instagram Banning Photos of Plus-Size Women?
7 Actual Facts That Prove White Privilege Exists in America
America May Have a Gay President Sooner Than You Think
It Is Now Perfectly Legal to Rape Your Wife in This Country
One Topless Photo Shows Everything That's Wrong With the #BringBackOurGirls Campaign
->

(WYB Irina Shayk?)

Men Asking Women to Ride Sex Toys for Charity Isn't Just Creepy, It's Wrong

(05-25-2014 11:48 AM)centius Wrote:  I have read the comments on here about how he was "good-looking".

Our assessments mean nothing, looking closely his features are effeminate and he was short.

His was not the look that gets the bang.

Its better to be the tall, "ugly" but masculine looking thug who gets the bang.

Not hating just saying.

Wrong. His 5'9" is about average. It's a whopping one inch shorter than "the norm" and my guess is that in CA, with all the immigrants who skew short, he's probably average, if not above. I came across a recent study that said men of average height have more kids than taller or shorter men, so let's not rule out the average guy so quickly (as if we should do that anyway).

As for him being good-looking: in the larger scheme of things, he was. He was presentable enough not to be disqualified immediately by obesity, a real height deficit (Neil Strauss), bad skin, baldness, a huge nose or any of the other drawbacks a lot of us have. How many of us have to get past disqualifications based on looks this guy didn't? My hand is raised.

And masculine-looking? Hahahaha. More than one effeminate pretty boy I know has gotten the girl. In indie band/hipster circles he'd have been king. (All that said, I still think he was mentally ill beyond help, I'm just making larger points here.)

Summary of the manifesto:

• Parents divorced when he was 7, despite being wealthy they both had problems. He wanted his mother to get remarried, preferably to a rich boyfriend, but that never happened. He split time between his parents.
• Mother always coddled him and catered to his whims. Father remarried, was always busy with work, and didn’t take his tantrums seriously. The stepmom tried to cut him off from videogames and was overall tired of his shit, eventually kicking him out at 18. He saw his dad as weak for not taking his side or disagreeing with the stepmom in arguments.
• Throughout his life, he thought that having access to a decadent lifestyle that was provided to him by his parents’ money and connections should entitle him to top shelf pussy. Extreme superiority complex.
• He was inept at social conversations, extremely shy from a young age, and only had a few friends. His only lasting friend from childhood, who was also a lifelong virgin, eventually cut him off after Elliot voiced disturbing plans a couple of times.
• He was always a small kid, hit puberty late, and didn’t have any natural inclinations for sports – hence the insecurities about height. I’m guessing the jealousy and bullying made it hard for him to get good grades as well. He blamed his small size for being ignored throughout middle and high school. To have some sort of social interaction, he’d play the class clown / weirdo, as being hated still felt better than being ignored.
• Extreme jealousy of the cool kids and lots of attempts at imitation. He tried to learn basketball, skateboarding, get the cool clothes and haircuts, but possessions didn’t have any effect on his school status. Doing things that the in-crowd was doing (hacky-sack, skateboarding) didn't get him any recognition, and he was jealous about others being more talented / learning faster than him. Extreme jealousy of anyone who could get attention from girls, with possibly the exception of guys exponentially above his status – actors, older rich men.
• He was bullied all throughout school, and changed schools multiple times, from public to private to all-boys, etc. He drowned his insecurities in video games and World of Warcraft, which allowed him to have some nominal friendships with friends who also played – but even then, they wouldn’t interact with him much outside of the game. His tactics in the games were usually inferior to his friends.
• Jealous of his younger brother, who was developing social skills. Jealous of his sister’s boyfriend.
• He signed up for and dropped college classes a bunch of times because he found it unbearable to see other guys getting attention from hot girls, especially white blondes. If he didn’t drop classes, he would skip all of the classes, coming in only for exams. He transferred from college to college again.
• From high school on, the anger just grows and grows due to the lack of affection in his life. Counseling doesn’t help resolve his relationship problems, as he never had his bubble popped or had an older male mentor to give him an action plan. A cold approach program would have helped.
• Worked two jobs in his life, the second being a couple hours as a janitor, which he clearly thought beneath him – so he pleaded his mom to give him another chance to transfer into another college…which he did.
• He wanted to live around the parties. Extreme beta delusions – despite never having so much as a conversation, he somehow expected to go out and meet a girl to fall in love with and lose his virginity. Plot spoiler: evil, damaged women ignored him for the evil, damaged, inferior jocks and frat boys.
• More jealousy of roommates. He’d lash out at them – they’d start teasing him for being a pussy, and then he’d stew in his anger, cry to mommy, and try to move again. New roommates, rinse, repeat.
• He started seeing riches as the best way to get pussy – so first he tried to write a script, but then after reading a bit he realized his odds were slim…he sat down to try to think up business ideas on how to become rich but couldn’t and complained that he didn’t know how to program…then deluded himself that he can win the lottery using mumbo jumbo from The Secret. Proceeded to blow hundreds of dollars on the Megabucks.
• The lottery failed – gave himself a deadline until his 22nd birthday to lose his virginity – after which he decided to follow through with revenge.
• He started striking out at girls and their boyfriends by spilling coffee on them out of his sexually frustrated anger. Surprisingly, he didn’t get his face punched in until he got into a fight at a Halloween party when he struck out at an Asian kid hitting on a blonde, got laughed at by everyone there, then tried to stand up for himself. Broken leg ensued.
• He first set ~November 2013 as his date, then April 2014, then moved it back since his videos were found and he was questioned by the police, but they never searched his room. His plan was something of a cross between Grand Theft Auto and Breyvik - kill his roommates, lure in more people to his apartment, kill his stepmom and talented younger half-brother, then drive around the college, gun people down and run them over.

(05-25-2014 11:53 AM)mikado Wrote:  I don't know if this has been posted already

From Policymic.com
http://www.policymic.com/articles/89905/...t-misogyny

feminist babble Wrote:Details are still emerging, but according to the Daily Kos, Elliot Rodger subscribed to many Men's Rights Activists' (MRA) websites and may have adopted their radical ideology about women. The comments that motivated his killing spree were not far from many of the ones that are openly made by men in those communities. Even in the aftermath of the tragedy in Santa Barbara, a pick-up artist group (many of which often classify as MRAs) left a horrendous comment publicizing their services, as if their view of entitlement to women were valid in the first place.

Gotta love the echo chamber effect. All you need to do to shape public opinion is find or ghostwrite several opinionated articles with opinions masquerading as facts, cite them in your work. Voila! You have credible sources offering undeniable proof of patriarchal oppression!

Add in several layers and what you have is an alchemy of made-up statistics into well-publicized facts.

[/quote]

Wrong. His 5'9" is about average.

As for him being good-looking: in the larger scheme of things, he was.[/quote]

We can all agree, that there have been many men who have done more, with less than this guy.

I still think with looks that are just "above average" at best, and with height that is below average that a lot of work needs to go into getting laid, which this kid could not grasp he had to do.

http://news.yahoo.com/gunman-kills-six-r...40719.html

In the Yahoo! article posted with the creepy animated video the father of the kid who got shot in the store opines:

Quote: "Why did Chris die? Chris died because of craven, irresponsible politicians and the NRA," Martinez told reporters outside the Santa Barbara County Sheriff's Office, appearing on the verge of collapse. "They talk about gun rights, what about Chris's right to live? When will this insanity stop?"

The National Rifle Association, or NRA, supports the right to own and carry firearms.

Pardon while I clutch my belly in spasmodic laughter. Note also how the bottom-feeder reporter sets up the next single-line paragraph so that it implies the NRA practically condoned the murder.

(05-24-2014 08:19 AM)Roosh Wrote:  At the very least, prostitution should be legalized as a release valve. If the killer had access to some high quality hookers for $150 a pop, it would have given him some meaning.

(05-24-2014 10:09 AM)Travesty444 Wrote:  I know the majority of this board is rabidly anti pay for play but seriously if every high school kid that couldn't get laid got a nice escort or two at some point around 15 or 16, I think the country would be a much happier place. Plus it would infuse red pill wisdom into young guys that women aren't all special princesses, and when they find out they aren't a tragedy like this won't happen.

I'm not convinced he was crazy, and I don't think his longing was for sex. Watching the videos, this guy clearly wanted to be "normal." For this guy, being forced to turn to prostitutes who care nothing for him and who only fuck him because he pays them would have been salt in the wound.

Wrong. His 5'9" is about average.

As for him being good-looking: in the larger scheme of things, he was.[/quote]

We can all agree, that there have been many men who have done more, with less than this guy.

I still think with looks that are just "above average" at best, and with height that is below average that a lot of work needs to go into getting laid, which this kid could not grasp he had to do.
[/quote]

You mean like the massive, massive amount of work I had to do to lose my virginity at 18 when I was around 5'2"?

It entailed making a phone call, asking "Wanna play miniature golf?" and dating the girl for a bit. I'd have lost my virginity years earlier but I was picky and sentimental wanted to be "in love" when I finally did it (gag).

I'm getting a troll vibe here. It's not that damned hard to do this. Also it should go without saying I had no money and no car at 18. I was amusing though -- something that's fading fast the more I have to deal with people on here who claim you have to be a combination of Brad Pitt and The Rock to even get a second glance from an American woman.

(05-25-2014 09:24 AM)Maciano Wrote:  Is it rly too hard to just say out loud that this guy was simply evil?

Why look for all sorts of stuff wrong in the culture? Some people are just a bad combination of various bad & nasty human characteristics, when they experience (perceived) hardship it comes out. In this guy's case, in an unimaginable cruel senseless sadistic manner.

I agree with you but you cannot ignore the so-called millennial generation's inability to deal with the realities of life, or their whiny sense of entitlement. He was unsane, that's true, but the idea that his envy justified his anger was a factor that spurred him on. A few decades ago, a man his age would have dismissed such thoughts with embarrassment. In fact, his utter shamelessness as he wallows in his own pathetic whinery can only come from a combination of modern-day American cultural Marxist ideas ("We all deserve what we want because we want it!") and, well, the fact that he was a rich brat.

Wrong. His 5'9" is about average.

As for him being good-looking: in the larger scheme of things, he was.[/quote]

We can all agree, that there have been many men who have done more, with less than this guy.

I still think with looks that are just "above average" at best, and with height that is below average that a lot of work needs to go into getting laid, which this kid could not grasp he had to do.
[/quote]

******

You mean like the massive, massive amount of work I had to do to lose my virginity at 18 when I was around 5'2"?

It entailed making a phone call, asking "Wanna play miniature golf?" and dating the girl for a bit. I'd have lost my virginity years earlier but I was picky and sentimental wanted to be "in love" when I finally did it (gag).

I'm getting a troll vibe here. It's not that damned hard to do this. Also it should go without saying I had no money and no car at 18. I was amusing though -- something that's fading fast the more I have to deal with people on here who claim you have to be a combination of Brad Pitt and The Rock to even get a second glance from an American woman.

Game does not save lives. Whether a man get's a woman or not depends completely on his relative social value against the pack. If all men learn game, then all men are just taking more necessary steps to increase the level of competition within the field. While game gives a sense that one has control of reality, the macroscopic result is inconsequential: it's a zero sum.

While game can individually enhance a person's life, a more 'gamey' society is symptomatic of significant levels of competition among men. Game is not the answer. Taking the red pill is not the answer.

The pivotal flaw with society is that young women between the ages of 18 and 25 are in excessive demand. Guys of his age are now experiencing significant levels of competition previously not recorded in human history: declining birth rates, competition from more developed older males with greater status/money, a free sexual market where women date/fuck the top 10%. Then you have rising obesity levels.

When you no longer have marriage and steady relationships, a neverending surplus of nightclubs/musicfestivals, cheap drugs as shown in the film 'Spring Breakers'.. the cost of doing hedonism is significantly less than what it used to be 50 years. When young women have access to these things, a guy like Elliot doesn't stand a chance.

People do not realise that if a man is repressed sexually he loses some vital nutrients that will eventually lead to an afflicted brain chemistry, resulting in a more violent tendency -- there is a evolutionary reason behind this: reproduce and the fittest survive. Sociopathic traits like these are purely a result of nurture.

Hypothetically if he did learn game things might have taken a different route, but this doesn't do anything i.e. zero sum. If all of male society learns game, the bottom 10% will still have their brain chemistry altered by the lack of human touch.

tonipepperoni Wrote:brain chemistry altered by the lack of human touch

While I agree with all of your post, I thought that this part was especially noteworthy. Very well phrased. I used to call it "feminine energy deprivation", but this one is very accurate too.

The parents deserve some blame.

The dude is in his twenties and calls his mother to cry over the phone. Clearly she would rather coddle and soothe him than to tell him to sack up. At least she could put dad on the line for some ass whupping.

Then again, i'm astounded dad never once seemed to say, "kid, what is wrong? Let me hear it all. Then we are going to go have a beer."

You know why that didn't happen? The killer writes in his essay that he was an accidental birth. A failure of birth control. You could say that subconsciously the father treated the son with the apathy of a kid unwanted from the start. The dad lived his 'true self' life on work trips and sent money home. But treat the kid like a real human being? No. Show interest in him? Most likely superficial, forced, and patronizing.

Seems like the mother was about to hit the wall, snagged a hollywood alpha who turned beta "for the kids", and then he divorced to continue his alpha lifestyle. That would explain why the mother coddles her son so much yet the dad could care less.

In death, Elliot Rodger gets the affection from women he was deprived of in life:



(source)

Jessica Valenti's take on this:

Quote:Rodger was reportedly involved with the online men's rights movement: allegedly active on one forum and said to have been following several men's rights channels on YouTube. The language Rodger used in his videos against women – like referring to himself as an "alpha male" – is common rhetoric in such circles.

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree...CMP=twt_gu

Who tells their kid he was a mistake, especially when he's little and presumably being ignored anyway?

(05-25-2014 12:28 PM)Icarus Wrote:  In death, Elliot Rodger gets the affection from women he was deprived of in life:

I knew this was going to happen. People will sympatize with him, girls think hes cute. Hence the motivation for these killers to do the killings in the first place, like terrorists crashing planes into building to get access to 100 virgins in paradise.

(05-25-2014 12:22 PM)tonipepperoni Wrote:  People do not realise that if a man is repressed sexually he loses some vital nutrients that will eventually lead to an afflicted brain chemistry, resulting in a more violent tendency -- there is a evolutionary reason behind this: reproduce and the fittest survive. Sociopathic traits like these are purely a result of nurture.

Do you have some articles which expand on this? I'd like to read more.

(05-25-2014 12:28 PM)Icarus Wrote:  In death, Elliot Rodger gets the affection from women he was deprived of in life:



(source)

That tweet doesn't reek of sarcasm to you?

(05-25-2014 12:25 PM)Handsome Creepy Eel Wrote:  

tonipepperoni Wrote:brain chemistry altered by the lack of human touch

While I agree with all of your post, I thought that this part was especially noteworthy. Very well phrased. I used to call it "feminine energy deprivation", but this one is very accurate too.

I actually remember reading that this is a researched concept and also has a terminology associated with it. Everyone from babies to animals have some data collected. I'll try to find a link.


As far as the larger subject at hand is concerned, Toni is right. Some men are bound to lose.

The question is; what do we do about our future increasing sexual drop outs in a society that gives them no solace?