Post: #201

(05-24-2014 12:19 PM)Basil Ransom Wrote:  "It looks like we have our first data point that game denialism kills."

It's not game denialism - he and his ilk don't necessarily deny that game works. They resent having to become something they claim to despise (eg a douchebag) in order to get play. They resent that they lack the character that is needed to get what they want.

I don't even think you need to become a douchbag to get a girl. You need to just be a socially normal person. He already had the looks, money and car. If he were even an outgoing beta, he could at least find a decent chic who would like him. He didn't seem like a guy who wasn't trying to rack up notches. That might take some douchbag game. But seems like he just wanted one attractive girl to take long walks on the beach with and all that stuff. But his problem wasn't lack of game as you don't need game just to find a girlfriend, especially if you are above average looking as he was.

Maybe this is wrong to say but I do feel some pity for this guy. Obviously it's fucked up what he did and if he wasn't dead I'd say he deserved capitol punishment. But I feel for that fact that he had Aspergers. That's genetic so in a way he was doomed from the start. I don't think you can teach game to someone with Aspergers. Their wiring is just not right to be socially smooth. And if it's true he was bullied that's more reason he fell into the hole, socially. And then he had no one to intervene during his formative years. If there's a lesson to be learned here, it's that America is becoming an increasingly lonely society full of isolated people despite the fact that we are more "connected" than ever through social media. It seems this guy just got a bad deal in life. Bad genes, bad social situation. In times past when we were a more community oriented society, a guy like this would've had some chance, someone to help him develop normally. He might have married someone from his church or a girl he met as a teenager in school. But as a society we no longer have that structure anymore. We're all on our own now, tossed out into the free market of capitalism and the sexual marketplace and it's sink or swim, and nobody gives a fuck about each other.

Post: #202

Seeing articles stating that the family had forwarded videos to police who then questioned him, and came away thinking he was just a normal dude who had difficulties making friends.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/natio...a/9532405/

This is some sad stuff.

Post: #203

It goes to show too "things" don't make you happy. Personal achievement, in anything, whether money, health, school, is the first step to happiness.

Also, yea, America is turning into a very strange place.

Post: #204

delete

Post: #205

His problem is that he projected neediness and desperation. Women are finely tuned to pick up on that. He may be lying to the world with his narcissism masked as confidence but he can't lie to himself. And that resonates out into world like a church bell on Sunday morning.

He's got inner game issues. Deep insecurity. He's going the route of "fake it til you make it". Which I don't really believe in personally. I'd rather be a modest introverted expert than the flamboyant wanna-be. Subtle mastery is what you should be shooting for.

Post: #206

Honestly, my reaction to this is twofold First, fuck this kid. As many said above, no amount of game/red pills would have been able to fix an individual who is so far gone past the point of reason. However at the end of the day, he chose his sad and disturbing path out of this world. I wouldn't call him a ticking time bomb, but rather a product of both his environment and a poor starting material. And that falls on the people around him. Being born with Asperger's is a disadvantage, absolutely. However there are ways to overcome this, especially if he is high-functioning as his family claims.

Really however, as soon as it became apparent that there was something off, his family should have taken a larger role in finding ways to help him adjust to the world around him. I've known and been friends with a couple individuals with Asperger's in my life. Both were nice dudes, and I enjoyed hanging out with them. However both had trouble with girls, as they couldn't pick up on social cues, and were brainwashed into buying the whole "white-knight is what a girl wants" mentality, in part due to a heavy presences in their lives of a mother and younger sister.

What these boys need is a positive male influence from a young age. Most boys with Asperger's are capable of decent social interaction, but they must be taught it. What the average man on here picks up as a girl reacting negatively to something we say, somebody with Asperger's has no idea that she is giving any social cue whatsoever. But it must start when they are young. We all know that the social jungle of junior high school, much less high school itself, is ruthless, unforgiving, and can give young men scars if they aren't prepared for it. Parents need to be more active earlier to help their kids out, lest they grow up to live a life of perpetual disappointment and solitude as they cannot seem to "fit in" with the rest of the world.

Didn't mean to turn this into a PSA, but oh well.

Post: #207

His (compensatory) narcissism was a just a shield he projected to the world. Even an ugly girl could have made him her slave and almost everyone he interacted with knew this.

Post: #208

(05-24-2014 12:00 PM)Vicious Wrote:  Unfortunately I believe that the Puahate connection means that this will ultimately be blamed on the PUA scene in the mainstream media.

the liberal blog DailyKOS is already calling him an MRA, pick-up artist, and basically making him out to be a follower of the manosphere.

Post: #209

This one seems mostly fair:

http://www.forbes.com/sites/kashmirhill/...ot-rodger/

Quote:Kashmir HillKashmir Hill Forbes Staff
Welcome to The Not-So Private Parts where technology & privacy collide
FOLLOW

TECH 5/24/2014 @ 3:57PM 890 views
The Disturbing Internet Footprint Of Santa Barbara Shooter Elliot Rodger
Comment Now Follow Comments

On Friday night, a 22-year-old drove through a popular night spot in the college town of Santa Barbara and started shooting. Six people were killed and seven more were injured. The gunman did not survive the evening, though he lives on in digital form due to online postings and videos, including a YouTube video titled “Elliot Rodger’s Retribution” in which he explains that he is wreaking vengeance on the hot girls of Santa Barbara because women had rejected him for 8 years, since he hit puberty. He expresses anger in the chilling video that he is still a virgin despite being “the perfect guy.” “I don’t know why you girls have never been attracted to me, but I will punish you all for it,” he says, sitting behind the wheel of his BMW.

Of course, perfect guys are not the type who go mass-murderer on a college town. Rodger, who was a student at Santa Barbara City College, had uploaded a number of videos in recent months about his loneliness and frustration over women not wanting him despite his BMW, $300 sunglasses and nice clothing. He had expressed similar sentiments on forums for bodybuilders and anti-pick-up-artists. The latter led a Daily Kos writer to blame the “men’s rights movement” for influencing Rodgers into psychopathy and murder, pointing to the fact that Rodgers had subscribed to three different YouTube channels that gave advice on how to pick up women and be an “alpha male.” “Rather than seeking mental help for some obvious issues, he sought out the Men’s Rights Movement,” writes OllieGarkey. “He internalized their hatred of women.”

This is severe oversimplification, and an overly rapid rush to judgment. Rodger’s hatred — of both men and women — seemed tied instead to narcissism, feelings of privilege and the world owing him. His mental disturbance seems as much about class as gender warfare.

Rodger favorited more Pokemon videos than PUA ones; the most disturbing favorite I saw in his YouTube videos was Philosophy of the Knife, a graphic film about torture during World War II. His Facebook page is full of selfies and photos of his rich but lonely life. There are photos of him, by himself, flying first class and attending a private Katy Perry concert; and with his parents, at the Hunger Games premiere in 2012; his father was an assistant producer of the film. Friends are generally absent from the photos and make few comments; he likes many of his own photos, and is usually the only one to do so. One of the few videos with other people in it is from a July 4, 2011 party, next to the pool at a luxurious home. It is just 26 seconds Rodger silently filming other people talking and eating, ending with the person next to Rodger flicking him off.

Contrary to the Daily Kos claim, Rodger was getting mental help. His parents reportedly saw his dozens of YouTube videos — of him wandering alone or sitting in his car complaining about the world’s unfairness, his loneliness and a desire for vengeance — and were concerned enough to report them to police, their lawyer tells ABC News. He was being was being treated by multiple therapists, according to the lawyer, and had been diagnosed as “a high-functioning patient with Asperger syndrome.”

Rather than the bodybuilding and anti-PUA communities simply supporting his world views, many challenged them in the conversations I reviewed, all of which have removed from those forums but are available in cached form. “If you could release a virus that would kill every single man on Earth, except for yourself because you would have the antidote, would you do it?,” he asked in an April 2013 thread on Puahate.com. “If you were ugly, you’d still be incel,” responded one forum user referring to the group’s term for “involuntary celibate.” “Women would just have kids by using sperm banks.” Another said he’d destroy the virus and get women by being the hero. Yes, there are ugly attitudes toward women, with one person saying they’d be too stupid to realize they could break into the sperm banks, but it’s not the majority.

On a forum on BodyBuilding.com, users were even more confrontational. When Rodger complained this month about seeing a “short, ugly Indian guy driving a Honda civic [with] a hot blonde girl in his passenger seat,” other users responded to say that he was racist, that his jealously was ugly and that the secret to getting girls was to “be fun to be around” not to have money and a BMW. A user who went by the handle dtugg was especially critical of Rodger. He had apparently seen Rodger’s YouTube videos. “I see you got rid of those serial killer-esc videos on Youtube,” he wrote. Rodger responded saying his parents made him take them down. “I’m not trying to be mean, but the creepy vibe that you give off in those videos is likely the major reason that you can’t get girls,” responded dtugg.

In another thread, users challenged him for saying that “women [prioritizing] brute strength just shows that their minds haven’t fully evolved” given that he was pursuing beautiful women himself. “So it’s perfectly acceptable when you are drawn to indicators of evolutionary fitness, but when women do it it’s because they are not fully evolved,” the user responded with a gif of Jennifer Lawrence mouthing, “ok.”

Users on that thread from a week ago seemed to recognize just how mentally disturbed Rodger might be. One told him to “get out of auschwitz mode.” Another said he reminded him of the serial killer in American Psycho: “Dude seriously channels Patrick Bateman (the film one, portrayed by Christian Bale)… Narcissistic, superficial, intense, angry, supremely unfulfilled.”


Now people are flocking to his YouTube channel to watch his videos and make critical comments, though YouTube has pulled his Retribution video saying it “violates YouTube’s TOS.” People are getting a disturbing look into what was going through this murderer’s mind due to his digital archive and will make decisions about who or what to blame. There’s a certain sickness in that, but it’s the same impulse that leads us to look at car crashes as we drive by them. Except this is a murderous car crash that’s strewn across the Internet and Google-able. In a better world, there would be nothing to see. The commenters challenging him and therapists treating him would have prevented this, and he would never have been able to get the gun that allowed him to murder innocent people.

Post: #210

Journalism is hard for stupid people. It's easier to just write what will rile people up. DailyKOS is a prime example.

Post: #211

$100 says that ABC dusts off that manosphere piece now and decides to revisit it...

Post: #212

They really need to figure out a way to screen better for mentally disturbed people before they sell guns to them.

Post: #213

Like all the spree shootings, this is a hideous tragedy for the families of the victims, and a stupid waste of life.
Nonetheless, this was an excellent motivation for me to better myself and not blame anyone else for my shortcomings anymore.
Quite often they never realise it, but myself and most men, even when unsuccessful with women, are better off than him, even with his supposed advantages.

I will resolve to better myself and to help anyone else who I can, NOT to end up a prisoner in their own head like this guy.
And there are a LOT of them.

Post: #214

^^ Soup, do you have to keep bringing up guns into this thread?

You keep trying to derail the thread. And it's rather trollish.

If you think this rich kid got his gun on his own, in California, come on man. Just think about that.
He's loaded.

Not hard to find a gun if you have the money.

Post: #215

(05-24-2014 04:05 PM)NY Digital Wrote:  ^^ Soup, do you have to keep bringing up guns into this thread?

You keep trying to derail the thread. And it's rather trollish.

If you think this rich kid got his gun on his own, in California, come on man. Just think about that.
He's loaded.

Not hard to find a gun if you have the money.

Not trolling, it's a legitimate and relevant issue here. The fact this guy was able to get hold of a gun is a real problem.

Yes, he could have ran people over, but that's a lot harder to target individual attractive girls with.

If he used a knife, I doubt there would be as many people dead.

A bomb wouldn't have worked because it is too indiscriminate.

The gun was the perfect weapon for what he was trying to do; it allows safe distance while still having highly accurate killing power.

Post: #216

(05-24-2014 09:36 AM)Christian McQueen Wrote:  The problem is is that when someone is coddled to such an extent, they cannot handle when life isn't 'fair'.

This generation needs a serious dose of hardship and a reality check.

Life isn't fucking fair. So what?

This is exactly why I've harped on about privilege creating low-resilient, narcissistic personalities, who are meaningfully-and-genuinely traumatised by the tiniest things, to the extent they have to invent hardships for themselves to overcome.

Basically, the exact background experienced by the majority of children who are privileged enough to attend university.

A generation of neurotics creating new victim classes and offences to explain the ways that they are not losers, but heroes, and could have achieved anything, but for 'X' holding them back.

Current university thought is just a way of normalising mental illness, getting cash out of the parents of entitled, damaged monsters to convince their little snowflakes that they're healthy, and the problem is everyone else. Which results in: everything is 'rape'. My gender is 'Xir'. Fat is beautiful. White people have privilege from birth. I'm actually a dragon. I have headmates.

So, yeah, this problem isn't just a beta male thing.

The video of this toxic wanker watching couples and melodramatically-talking about his loneliness? He's just a Jezebel writer bitching about how happy everyone is on thanksgiving or Christmas, except for her. He's Lindy West ranting about people daring to look disgusted or pitiful when they have to interact with her, and that everyone else has the problem as should accept her beauty.

The combination of excessive privilege, entitlement, narcissism, and normalised deviancy via education created the exact same neurosis in this guy as the Jezebel crew, or your average feminist. The only difference is that this cowardly fuckwit has a gun.

Be suspicious of anyone who has never really experienced hardship in their life. They're dangerous. This is why I don't waste time debating them or interacting with them in any meaningful way. Focus on your life and your goals.

Post: #217

This sort of stuff is genuinely scary. One of the negatives of the internet is that it allows people like this to attempt to reach out and attempt to connect with other people. Now that attempt isn't an issue but imagine how quickly someone like him posting here would be ripped to shreds and banned? He'd deal with more rejections from people in online communities which would only help solidify his insane views. Then this sort of kid finds a community like PUAhate.com and it just snowballs from there. I know a few people that give off a similar (but lesser) sort of vibe and I always try to direct them to some decent self improvement resources, or at the very least encourage them to go and chat with girls at parties.

Post: #218

Guns aren't the problem. People are the problem. Access to guns isn't what drives people to attempt mass murder.

http://articles.latimes.com/2003/jun/30/...-slasher30

Not the greatest example, but one that is very close to where I grew up and I remember vividly. If not for poor aim on his part, brave customers/employees who acted swiftly, and a quick police response it could have been much, much worse. Three things that are far from guaranteed nowadays.

Post: #219

(05-24-2014 04:10 PM)AnonymousBosch Wrote:  The video of this toxic wanker watching couples and melodramatically-talking about his loneliness? He's just a Jezebel writer bitching about how happy everyone is on thanksgiving or Christmas, except for her. He's Lindy West ranting about people daring to look disgusted or pitiful when they have to interact with her, and that everyone else has the problem as should accept her beauty.

Rodgers was the male Jizz-a-beller.

Post: #220

It's confirmed he suffers from Asperger's syndrome, but sure enough liberal media are pinning the cause on the fact he subscribed to a YouTube PUA channel.

Post: #221

(05-24-2014 04:12 PM)Mongo Wrote:  Guns aren't the problem. People are the problem. Access to guns isn't what drives people to attempt mass murder.

http://articles.latimes.com/2003/jun/30/...-slasher30

Not the greatest example, but one that is very close to where I grew up and I remember vividly. If not for poor aim on his part, brave customers/employees who acted swiftly, and a quick police response it could have been much, much worse. Three things that are far from guaranteed nowadays.

You are right. People are the problem. Enabling problem-people to have access to weapons like a semi-auto handgun isn't good.

A guy like this should never had been able to get his hands on one.

Post: #222

He was on a body building forum too. Clearly the problem...

Post: #223

(05-24-2014 12:00 PM)Vicious Wrote:  Unfortunately I believe that the Puahate connection means that this will ultimately be blamed on the PUA scene in the mainstream media.

I doubt it. I'd imagine the female typists will either spin this as 'The Dangers Of Nice Guys', or most likely, focus on the 'Hunger Games' connection.

Post: #224

If this story has legs in the mainstream media and anyone from here decides to share some knowledge with the masses, I suggest you take care not to use any specialized terminology.
On a run-of-the-mill "heartbroken guy kills girlfriend" story, I noted that he suffered from oneitis and scarcity mentality. Literally got 100 downvotes and a couple of upvotes, with one woman sneering "That's a manosphere term," whereas if I had written something clichéd about fish in the sea, the reaction would have been benign.
People are already extremely prejudiced when it comes to red pill thought (obviously), and this shooting spree could easily be distorted to make its reputation even worse.

Post: #225

It's really too bad he did not get the help he needed.

According to one article his parents sent him to see shrinks and psychologists, but in my experience 99% of these types simply want you to follow the norm - that is, be a male feminist and accept that position rather than strive for greatness. He was incapable of helping himself. This is not a bad thing, it just is - MOST people cannot help themselves. It's not even necessarily a sign of weakness, it's just how it is. It's one thing to be self-aware of your weaknesses, but it's something completely different to proactively change ON YOUR own (in this case, break free from his toxic cycle of negativity). A lot of times bad habits & negative psychological patterns become self-fulfilling prophecies and you need an outside force to fix them.

What he needed was the RIGHT HELP and he couldn't find it. That's largely because the RIGHT HELP for these type of people doesn't exist in this society for so many reasons. What he really needed was extended one-on-ones over a long period of time with people like some of the top posters of this forum to work on his inner game. It's unfortunate though that the people who he needed help most from are shunned from traditional society (even if they themselves function very successfully in traditional society).

Personally, I have been through times were I was self-aware enough that shit was really bad for me both physically and mentally, but I still couldn't affect change because I kept getting sucked right back into the same old negative patterns of thinking. I made A LOT of fuckups TRYING to break through to a better place that hurt myself and my family, but thankfully I never went so far as to actually kill people, though it would be remiss of me to say I had never fantasized about it. It took me years & years to actually make myself change and I can guarantee this was not an easy process. I guess I was lucky though that I was (and am) able to stick it out through this struggle to the point were I can develop myself toward the goal of self-actualization.

It's a shame to see something like this for both the victims and the shooter. The shooter did have a lot going for him it seemed (intelligent, money, family connections) and if he were only able to break through because the right help was available to him he may have gone on to become someone very influential and positive. Unfortunately, innocent people died because the right help was not available to him at a time when he most needed it.

I got to say too that his parents are pretty fucked up for reporting him to the police. It makes me wonder if they even tried to be a friend to their own son and just sit down and listen to him and his needs and empathize with him when he needed that support most.