Post: #26

Two of the people on the plane were traveling on stolen passports, the proper owners of which have been located in their home countries.

There are criminal reasons other than terrorism (drugs, etc.) why people might travel on stolen passports, but according to the article, it's quite rare that two of them are on one plane. In any case, the airline and airport authorities had access to the Interpol database that would have identified the passports as stolen.

Quote:Fuentes said that Interpol, the international law enforcement agency, maintains an extensive database of lost and stolen passports. The use of the stolen passports by passengers on the Malaysia Airlines flight should have been checked against that database by airline officials, he said.
"Now the question here becomes, did the authorities in Malaysia, the airport in Kuala Lumpur, did they make inquiry of that database," Fuentes said. "Is that system set up to make an automatic inquiry if someone is using a previously reported stolen document? That should come up right away if they check that database. Not every country that belongs to Interpol automatically does that."

There is a lot of fodder for speculation as more information comes in.

Post: #27

(03-08-2014 12:28 PM)Teutatis Wrote:  

(03-08-2014 01:18 AM)HeyPete Wrote:  It reminds of the airliner traveling from Brazil to Paris? I think --- a few years ago that crashed into the Atlantic.

I remember the cause of that was the pitot tubes, which measure air speed, froze. They are not supposed to even though they are tiny.

Yes, I remember that, the cause was the complete and utter stupidity of one of the pilots who did absolutely everything wrong despite the plane warnings for 15 minutes. It's like his brain shut off and went into retarded mode where if you have a right turn you decide to turn left and crash.

Read the transcript from the black box. It is harrowing.

My gut instinct when I heard about this flight from KL was that it was "missing". I cant imaging too many private airports being able to support the landing of a 777 or it being able to avoid radar detection but for some reason I feel that there is more to this than just a crash.

I would love to hear that the plane is sitting on a private runway on an island in the sea being repainted.

Post: #28

(03-08-2014 07:03 PM)Laner Wrote:  

(03-08-2014 12:28 PM)Teutatis Wrote:  

(03-08-2014 01:18 AM)HeyPete Wrote:  It reminds of the airliner traveling from Brazil to Paris? I think --- a few years ago that crashed into the Atlantic.

I remember the cause of that was the pitot tubes, which measure air speed, froze. They are not supposed to even though they are tiny.

Yes, I remember that, the cause was the complete and utter stupidity of one of the pilots who did absolutely everything wrong despite the plane warnings for 15 minutes. It's like his brain shut off and went into retarded mode where if you have a right turn you decide to turn left and crash.

Read the transcript from the black box. It is harrowing.

My gut instinct when I heard about this flight from KL was that it was "missing". I cant imaging too many private airports being able to support the landing of a 777 or it being able to avoid radar detection but for some reason I feel that there is more to this than just a crash.

I would love to hear that the plane is sitting on a private runway on an island in the sea being repainted.

Who knows, it could turn out that oil slick is from something completely unrelated. Would be crazy if it just mysteriously vanished into thin air. Poof without a trace. Maybe it was beamed up by an alien mothership in orbit. Btw, many credible pilots have reported seeing UFOs while in flight.

Post: #29

(03-08-2014 07:53 PM)speakeasy Wrote:  

(03-08-2014 07:03 PM)Laner Wrote:  

(03-08-2014 12:28 PM)Teutatis Wrote:  

(03-08-2014 01:18 AM)HeyPete Wrote:  It reminds of the airliner traveling from Brazil to Paris? I think --- a few years ago that crashed into the Atlantic.

I remember the cause of that was the pitot tubes, which measure air speed, froze. They are not supposed to even though they are tiny.

Yes, I remember that, the cause was the complete and utter stupidity of one of the pilots who did absolutely everything wrong despite the plane warnings for 15 minutes. It's like his brain shut off and went into retarded mode where if you have a right turn you decide to turn left and crash.

Read the transcript from the black box. It is harrowing.

My gut instinct when I heard about this flight from KL was that it was "missing". I cant imaging too many private airports being able to support the landing of a 777 or it being able to avoid radar detection but for some reason I feel that there is more to this than just a crash.

I would love to hear that the plane is sitting on a private runway on an island in the sea being repainted.

Who knows, it could turn out that oil slick is from something completely unrelated. Would be crazy if it just mysteriously vanished into thin air. Poof without a trace. Maybe it was beamed up by an alien mothership in orbit. Btw, many credible pilots have reported seeing UFOs while in flight.

I don't think it was beamed up by the mothership. But aliens probably exist somewhere (more likely than not). But I think we'd have more concrete proof of aerial vehicles from extra-Earth species by now if they'd have been visiting Earth.

Post: #30

^^^ I'm just joking.

But here are list of possible reasons:

Quote:Some of the possible causes for the plane disappearing include:

— A catastrophic structural failure of the airframe or its Rolls-Royce Trent 800 engines. Most aircraft are made of aluminum which is susceptible to corrosion over time, especially in areas of high humidity. But given the plane's long history and impressive safety record, experts suggest this is unlikely.

More of a threat to the plane's integrity is the constant pressurization and depressurization of the cabin for takeoff and landing. In April 2011, a Southwest Airlines Boeing 737 made an emergency landing shortly after takeoff from Phoenix after the plane's fuselage ruptured, causing a 5-foot tear. The plane, with 118 people on board, landed safely. But such a rupture is less likely in this case. Airlines fly the 777 on longer distances, with many fewer takeoffs and landings, putting less stress on the airframe.

"It's not like this was Southwest Airlines doing 10 flights a day," Hamilton said. "There's nothing to suggest there would be any fatigue issues."

— Bad weather. Planes are designed to fly through most severe storms. However, in June 2009, an Air France flight from Rio de Janeiro to Paris crashed during a bad storm over the Atlantic Ocean. Ice built up on the Airbus A330's airspeed indicators, giving false readings. That, and bad decisions by the pilots, led the plane into a stall causing it to plummet into the sea. All 228 passengers and crew aboard died. The pilots never radioed for help.

In the case of Saturday's Malaysia Airlines flight, all indications show that there were clear skies.

— Pilot disorientation. Curtis said that the pilots could have taken the plane off autopilot and somehow went off course and didn't realize it until it was too late. The plane could have flown for another five or six hours from its point of last contact, putting it up to 3,000 miles away. This is unlikely given that the plane probably would have been picked up by radar somewhere. But it's too early to eliminate it as a possibility.

— Failure of both engines. In January 2008, a British Airways 777 crashed about 1,000 feet short of the runway at London's Heathrow Airport. As the plane was coming in to land, the engines lost thrust because of ice buildup in the fuel system. There were no fatalities.

Loss of both engines is possible in this case, but Hamilton said the plane could glide for up to 20 minutes, giving pilots plenty of time to make an emergency call. When a US Airways A320 lost both of its engines in January 2009 after taking off from LaGuardia Airport in New York it was at a much lower elevation. But Capt. Chesley B. "Sully" Sullenberger still had plenty of communications with air traffic controllers before ending the six-minute flight in the Hudson River.

— A bomb. Several planes have been brought down including Pan Am Flight 103 between London and New York in December 1988. There was also an Air India flight in June 1985 between Montreal and London and a plane in September 1989 flown by French airline Union des Transports Aériens which blew up over the Sahara.

— Hijacking. A traditional hijacking seems unlikely given that a plane's captors typically land at an airport and have some type of demand. But a 9/11-like hijacking is possible, with terrorists forcing the plane into the ocean.

— Pilot suicide. There were two large jet crashes in the late 1990s — a SilkAir flight and an EgyptAir flight— that are believed to have been caused by pilots deliberately crashing the planes. Government crash investigators never formally declared the crashes suicides but both are widely acknowledged by crash experts to have been caused by deliberate pilot actions.

— Accidental shoot-down by some country's military. In July 1988, the United States Navy missile cruiser USS Vincennes accidently shot down an Iran Air flight, killing all 290 passengers and crew. In September 1983, a Korean Air Lines flight was shot down by a Russian fighter jet.

I hadn't really thought of this before, but now that it's mentioned here I think it could be highly likely that this was a pilot suicide like that Egypt Air pilot did awhile back. That would explain the rapid decent, lack of wide debris field(which you would normally see in a break up) and no communications.

Post: #31

(03-08-2014 08:12 PM)speakeasy Wrote:  I hadn't really thought of this before, but now that it's mentioned here I think it could be highly likely that this was a pilot suicide like that Egypt Air pilot did awhile back. That would explain the rapid decent, lack of wide debris field(which you would normally see in a break up) and no communications.

That's really sad.

There have been times in my life where I felt down and dark - I usually ate a cookie and called it an early night. Not crash a plane.

Post: #32

Terrible news, I've flown the KUL/PEK route for business a handful of times a few years back, even once with Malaysian Airlines.

Poor people, my heart goes out to the families.

Post: #33

This brings to my mind that pitot problem of the flight from Brazil to Europe that crashed-- although the sample size of crashed airliners is so small it's hard to gain meaningful statistics from them, are more fatal airliner crashes at night?

I once saw an interview with a private pilot who said he only flew during the day. JFK junior his wife and her sister killed at night, although in that case he seemed to have very limited experience to be flying people around at night.

Post: #34

(03-08-2014 11:25 PM)iknowexactly Wrote:  This brings to my mind that pitot problem of the flight from Brazil to Europe that crashed-- although the sample size of crashed airliners is so small it's hard to gain meaningful statistics from them, are more fatal airliner crashes at night?

I once saw an interview with a private pilot who said he only flew during the day. JFK junior his wife and her sister killed at night, although in that case he seemed to have very limited experience to be flying people around at night.

Commercial airlines always fly on IFR flight plans. That is, they fly solely off the instruments in the cockpit without the need to look outside. An airliner at cruise altitude will have no need to look outside. They go visual (look outside) for takeoffs and landings.

Night time is only a risk if the pilot can not see a horizon during an emergency. Again, there is no need for the pilot to look outside but having a visual horizon makes it easier to determine what the aircraft is doing without referencing the instruments.

The pitot tube incident (Air France?) is an example of that. The pitot tubes froze over which caused all airspeed signals to be lost. That kicked off the autopilot. The pilot then entered a stall. Referencing his instruments, he noticed he was descending and his natural reaction was to pull pack on the controls to initiate a climb, which does nothing but increase the severity of the stall. If the plane hadn't been in the clouds and the pilot had been able to see outside and reference a horizon, he probably would have been able to recover it.

I'm not saying that you have to see the horizon during an emergency. You can reference the attitude indicator in the cockpit, which is what you use anytime your flying without a natural horizon. However, not being able to see a horizon just adds more stress to an already stressful situation.

You actually don't even need an attitude indicator! It's possible to determine what the plane is doing just looking at airspeed, heading, and altitude. It's not easy by any means, but its possible.

So I wouldn't consider night flights any more risk than day flights for a commercial pilot. For a private pilot flying around at a few thousand feet its riskier, but not for a professional commercial pilot cruising at 30k.



Planes don't just go missing though. Something will turn up in a few days. It's a horrible event regardless.

Post: #35

What if they snuck ex prime minister of Thailand on the plane and 'forced' a hijack and landed somewhere in Thailand to get him back in there?

Conspiracy?

Post: #36

There's a 7-part thread and counting on the airliners.net forum about flight MH370 for anyone who wants more details here:
http://www.airliners.net/aviation-forums...n/6015734/

I figured an aeroplane forum would be one of the best places to get information and insights about an event like this.

I've had a glance at some of the posts, seems like everyone's pretty much just speculating though, since there's been so little hard info coming out so far.

Post: #37

"Missing Malaysia Airlines plane: Family of Chinese passenger says mobile phone working"

http://www.stasiareport.com/the-big-stor...nger-says-

Huh.

Post: #38

Reuters is reporting the plane was tracked by Malaysian military flying at a lower altitude over the Malacca Straits after turning around past Kota Bharu (on the east coast). It is reported its transponders and tracking systems were turned off and thus it was only able to be tracked by military primary radar, hence why it went missing from civilian secondary trackers. It is not clear from the reporting whether it was tracked having dropped 1000m (3000ft) from its cruising altitude, or whether it was tracked at an altitude of 1000m.
http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/03/1...5520140311

If you consider this fact then this map will show the entire range it could have reached with its fuel load.

This certainly leaves open speculation to conspiracy. But a more straight forward turn of events proposed by a pprune member seems possible:
-A bomb or fire crippled the comms, tracking systems and/or mechanical systems but left the plane flyable.
-At an altitude of 35000 ft the pilots turned back to land.
-The nearest east coast airports WMKN/TGG & WMKC/KBR may have been too close to safely descend and land given the fact it was night and the possible state the plane was in.
-Thus the pilots made the turn and track towards the west coast whilst descending with the intention to land at WMKP/PEN (Penang) or WMKK/KUL (Kuala Lumpur). KUL has well known procedures for making a landing in a situation of lost radio communications.
-At some point in the emergency approach things may have taken a turn for the worse and the plane ended up crashed into the water.

If you assume this then the plane could be anywhere from 25m to 100m under water. Given the Asian idea of saving face, Malaysia might have withheld this information having considered the idea of China or Vietnam discovering the wreckage a huge embarrassment and much worse than delaying the truth for a few days.






Now for some RVF related revelations. A woman has come forward to say that the copilot had invited them into the cockpit on a previous flight.

“Throughout the entire flight they were talking to us and they were actually smoking throughout the flight which I don’t think they’re allowed to do,” Ms Roos said.

“They were so engaged in conversation that he took my friends hand and he was looking at her palm and said ‘your hand is very creased. That means you’re a very creative person’ and commented on her nail polish.”

(Palm reading game recognised)

Mr Hamid identified the South African natives as they waited in the boarding queue at Phuket airport in December 2011.

As they took their seats on the aircraft, an air steward approached the women and invited them to join the pilots in the cockpit.

Massive DHV

Post: #39

Quote:“They were so engaged in conversation that he took my friends hand and he was looking at her palm and said ‘your hand is very creased. That means you’re a very creative person’ and commented on her nail polish.”

Post: #40

(03-08-2014 06:29 PM)berserk Wrote:  Malaysia being muslim and the plane being on its way to China does open some possibilities, considering that very recently some Chinese muslim terrorists (Urgur?) stabbed and killed 23 people in a chinese airport. Separatist muslim terrorism is unfortunately also rising in China.

Though that is pure speculation.

Yes, but I believe that someone would have claimed responsibility by now is that were the case. Half of the motivation for terrorism is attention whoring!

Post: #41

A 777 is worth probably $300 million.

Terrorism does not have to be about attention whoring. This could just be a crazy heist.

I still think some kingpin is now the proud owner of a jet. Makes for a better story.

Post: #42

I don't get it. Why hasn't the black box been located by now?

Post: #43

(03-11-2014 12:35 PM)Laner Wrote:  A 777 is worth probably $300 million.

Terrorism does not have to be about attention whoring. This could just be a crazy heist.

I still think some kingpin is now the proud owner of a jet. Makes for a better story.

I was thinking the same thing. Could just be a heist.

If you see a craigslist ad for a 777 report it.

On a serious note, it could be funding for the other operations they want to pull. Or worse yet, they rig it with explosives and it is a massive massive missile.

Post: #44

(03-11-2014 01:55 PM)samsamsam Wrote:  

(03-11-2014 12:35 PM)Laner Wrote:  A 777 is worth probably $300 million.

Terrorism does not have to be about attention whoring. This could just be a crazy heist.

I still think some kingpin is now the proud owner of a jet. Makes for a better story.

I was thinking the same thing. Could just be a heist.

If you see a craigslist ad for a 777 report it.

On a serious note, it could be funding for the other operations they want to pull. Or worse yet, they rig it with explosives and it is a massive massive missile.

How long until the air traffic control would know that the inbound jet is "bogus"? If they do not know until its too late, then yeah it could be used as a missile. A very expensive one though.

Soviet "Grinch" missile launchers can be found on the black market a whole shit load go missing from places like Libya and Syria during turmoil. Probably $100,000 each.

Post: #45

DELETE

Post: #46

@Speakeasy

Quote:— Accidental shoot-down by some country's military. In July 1988, the United States Navy missile cruiser USS Vincennes accidently shot down an Iran Air flight, killing all 290 passengers and crew. In September 1983, a Korean Air Lines flight was shot down by a Russian fighter jet.

Iran retaliated to that accidental shooting by bombing a US passenger plane and killing 270 people over the Scottish town of Lockerbie 5 months later.

I have a couple of long posts on it in the Conspiracy Theory thread.

/thread-31466.html

Post: #47

(03-11-2014 02:40 PM)Laner Wrote:  

(03-11-2014 01:55 PM)samsamsam Wrote:  

(03-11-2014 12:35 PM)Laner Wrote:  A 777 is worth probably $300 million.

Terrorism does not have to be about attention whoring. This could just be a crazy heist.

I still think some kingpin is now the proud owner of a jet. Makes for a better story.

I was thinking the same thing. Could just be a heist.

If you see a craigslist ad for a 777 report it.

On a serious note, it could be funding for the other operations they want to pull. Or worse yet, they rig it with explosives and it is a massive massive missile.

How long until the air traffic control would know that the inbound jet is "bogus"? If they do not know until its too late, then yeah it could be used as a missile. A very expensive one though.

Soviet "Grinch" missile launchers can be found on the black market a whole shit load go missing from places like Libya and Syria during turmoil. Probably $100,000 each.

LOL, how you know so much about used prices on military hardware?

Of course the random plane on radar would get checked out. But somehow it also disappeared off radar also. Reasonably, it probably crashed. But if somehow it flew to a spot to land undetected, I would guess that could be used to let it be a missile. Just random talk here, not trying to turn this into how to hide a 777 conversation.

But this is just such a weird event.

Post: #48

(03-11-2014 01:55 PM)samsamsam Wrote:  If you see a craigslist ad for a 777 report it.

I'm seriously tempted to create one now.

Like others have said, it would be great news to hear this was just a heist and the plane was landed on some remote islands.

Post: #49

(03-11-2014 03:26 PM)samsamsam Wrote:  Of course the random plane on radar would get checked out. But somehow it also disappeared off radar also. Reasonably, it probably crashed. But if somehow it flew to a spot to land undetected,

Was it ever being tracked by radar over the sea, in the traditional sense of the word? I think the plane was actively sending out signals with its transponder, and that's how the they were 'tracking' it. Not by the ground stations sending out signals and looking at the reflection from the planes. So it's not that the plane suddenly disappeared, but that it suddenly stopped emitting it's own signal.

But apparently the Malaysian military independently picked up the plane on its own radar (by sending out signals and looking at the reflections from everything around) and that's where the reports of the plane's further movements came from.

At least so is my understanding.

Post: #50

It is weird. I think the actual story, once it is found out, may even be weirder.

Methinks that James Bond's arch-nemesis Blofeld is up to his usual dastardly deeds and has invented some device that sucks planes out of the sky using remote control to land it. He has leased an island in the area from The Man With The Golden Gun and this island has a volcano that opens up and swallows the plane whole. He has the plane now and will soon get on the airwaves demanding "1 Million Dollars". James Bond has since been deployed in the area by the British govt by launching him out of a submarine's torpedo launcher.

Other scenario is that the gray aliens are up to their usual dastardly deeds and have sucked up the plane into their humongous mothership where they're doing human experiments on those poor people, inserting probes into their bodies and stuff. A week from now, they'll be found drifting on their lifeboats in the middle of the ocean with no recollection of what happened, having their memories completely erased. The women find themselves prego with some alien child.