Post: #176

(03-24-2014 10:51 AM)MaleDefined Wrote:  There are a lot of credible people in the industry who feel that this is not the right story.

Usually when there's some sort of conspiracy/cover-up theory, it's a looney toon crowd who leads the charge. This time, however, it's leading industry experts putting their names and reputations on the line that this isn't the real story.

Interesting.

Who? Where? Please don't say "Lt. Gen. McInerney."

Post: #177

(03-24-2014 10:14 AM)big poppa Wrote:  http://www.news.com.au/travel/travel-upd...6863596129

Malaysia Airlines has informed the relatives of those aboard missing flight MH370 that they believe no one on the plane survived.
The following SMS message was sent to relatives: “Malaysia Airlines deeply regrets that we have to assume beyond any reasonable doubt that MH370 has been lost and that none of those on board survived. ... we must now accept all evidence suggests the plane went down in the southern Indian Ocean.”
The news was greeted with an outpouring of grief by the relatives of passengers, whose agonising wait to find out what happened is now apparently over.

Sounds like the sort of thing you say when you don't have an answer and "we don't know yet" isn't working anymore.

Post: #178

(03-24-2014 10:51 AM)MaleDefined Wrote:  There are a lot of credible people in the industry who feel that this is not the right story.

Usually when there's some sort of conspiracy/cover-up theory, it's a looney toon crowd who leads the charge. This time, however, it's leading industry experts putting their names and reputations on the line that this isn't the real story.

Interesting.

Like who?

Immarsat and the UK are the ones who have told the Malaysian government and Malaysian airlines this information. What the fuck have the UK to gain from saying that?

Post: #179

We're supposed to believe the PM of Malaysia who tells us that the plane is probably here, but no we don't have any wreckage yet?

Post: #180

(03-24-2014 09:58 AM)Handsome Creepy Eel Wrote:  

(03-24-2014 09:54 AM)TravellerJay Wrote:  Governments officials confirmed to media that they confirm plane is lost and crashed in Southern Indian Ocean to the west of Perth

Use Google Chrome & translate to English - http://www1.folha.uol.com.br/mundo/2014/...caiu.shtml

Post: #181

I've got a two imaginary scenarios about this tragedy:

NUMBER 1:
Older pilot was way pissed his distant relative/dissident got 5 years (!) for "sodomy".
Who ISN'T doing sodomy? Obviously a bullshit charge.

He takes control of plane, radios in and says "Let my guy go or I crash this plane and everyone in it "
Maybe he is in league with a terrorist organization who has now realized it is not worthwhile to be associated with this and piss off China. ( This seems off I admit they seem to love bragging about murder. Solo pissed off pilot seems more likely.)

Malaysian Government says in effect "Fuck you" or can't get authorization in time to give dude what he wants. They also bring in Special Forces guys who lock down wherever radio transmissions come in and tell the people who heard the radio stuff "You want 5 years too ?" and scare them into silence.

Maybe there a sinister person also paying the pilot to do it with separate motivations of their own.

Due to delays, confusion -- whatever-- Malcontent pilot crashes it, maybe accidentally as he is off course and maybe co-pilot tried to retake control and everything goes FUBAR.

Malaysian government realizes they have fucked up and it will do no good to admit it. What can they do,
say "We don't negotiate with terrorists" and have all the relatives totally going ballistic? They know that the TERRORISTS know: We don't negotiate with terrorists.

They stonewall as they are doing now.

This seems very unlikely to me, but so does total shutdown with no transmissions from the plane.

NUMBER 2:
As I argued before this is probably a typical 3rd world company with cronyism, elitist arrogance among pilots who make --who knows-- 100 times what normal people do in Malaysia, lack of consequences, and VERY lax discipline, probably very lax medical exams for pilots-- an overconfident young pilot, so some pretty small combination of bad luck items could cause the tragedy.

Executive summary: Bad luck unknown malfunction(s) combined with sloppy and/or slow compensating action by mediocre young pilot and a senior pilot somehow disabled by medical or emotional illness.

The older pilot may have well had a cardiac or some other suddenly disabling condition. He was living in the same house with a hot wife from whom he was separated; and might have really been suffering emotionally. As a therapist, I noted the strong asymmetry of his grin, subjective impression is it's the grin of someone hiding pain and/or anger. Also, actually going to the sentencing hearing of a political figure indicates more source of distress and probably quite a bit of anger. This entails some real work-- finding out where the courtroom is, going there despite it being an authoritarian country where people get 5 years for sex, thereby marking yourself as a dissident-- this guy was ALREADY pretty aggressively asserting that he was pissed off just by going to the sentencing.

Big missing answer WHY was he separated from his wife? Was he suffering from some emotional problems so he was beating her, up, ranting about some political crazy shit? People don't get separated for nothing, and it has serious emotional consequences for them most times.

The younger one was overconfident with only 6 flights in that plane , who brought chicks for whole flights post 9/11 (!) into the cockpit and smoked there.

There were too many stressors on the senior pilot, and or lack of discipline on the part of the younger.
Would have liked to see the last physical with blood pressure and cardiac workup on the senior pilot. Was probably a rubber-stamp "You look fine" BS exam.

A couple minor malfunctions may have just been too much for them especially if the senior took ill, perhaps a combination of small problems that on their own wouldn't mean disaster, but here they did.

Post: #182

Supposed Evidence plane is in Pakistan: http://thesteadydrip.blogspot.com/2014/0...s.html?m=1

Post: #183

My gut feeling is telling me that this plane is not at the bottom of the Indian Ocean but rather somewhere on land. Also, despite what many in the west and western media might erroneously believe, Malaysian Airlines are far from being a banana type of airline.

I have a strong feeling that the authorities and powers to be of the world are collaborating to hiding the real truth in this. There's more, way more to it than what we're being spoon fed by the media here. But why?

Midnight, good link. What this military man is saying on that clip makes a lot of sense despite not being a fan at all of Fox. I wouldn't be surprised at all if the plane was in Pakistan.

With all the resources the international communities have put into this search, why are they not sending planes to fly over the Northern Route to see if there's anything there? Why aren't they getting their satellites to scan that Northern Route and analyze the terrain there?

Post: #184

Scores of planes from several different countries - US, China, NZ, Australia, Malaysia at a minimum - are burning hundreds of thousands of gallons of fuel flying over the S. Indian Ocean looking for it. They are not looking in Pakistan.

Conspiracies that depend on hundreds of people from several countries parroting lies or remaining silent about the truth are unrealistic.

Post: #185

(03-24-2014 05:40 PM)iknowexactly Wrote:  I've got a two imaginary scenarios about this tragedy:

NUMBER 1:
Older pilot was way pissed his distant relative/dissident got 5 years (!) for "sodomy".
Who ISN'T doing sodomy? Obviously a bullshit charge.

He takes control of plane, radios in and says "Let my guy go or I crash this plane and everyone in it "
Maybe he is in league with a terrorist organization who has now realized it is not worthwhile to be associated with this and piss off China. ( This seems off I admit they seem to love bragging about murder. Solo pissed off pilot seems more likely.)

Malaysian Government says in effect "Fuck you" or can't get authorization in time to give dude what he wants. They also bring in Special Forces guys who lock down wherever radio transmissions come in and tell the people who heard the radio stuff "You want 5 years too ?" and scare them into silence.

Maybe there a sinister person also paying the pilot to do it with separate motivations of their own.

Due to delays, confusion -- whatever-- Malcontent pilot crashes it, maybe accidentally as he is off course and maybe co-pilot tried to retake control and everything goes FUBAR.

Malaysian government realizes they have fucked up and it will do no good to admit it. What can they do,
say "We don't negotiate with terrorists" and have all the relatives totally going ballistic? They know that the TERRORISTS know: We don't negotiate with terrorists.

They stonewall as they are doing now.

This seems very unlikely to me, but so does total shutdown with no transmissions from the plane.

NUMBER 2:
As I argued before this is probably a typical 3rd world company with cronyism, elitist arrogance among pilots who make --who knows-- 100 times what normal people do in Malaysia, lack of consequences, and VERY lax discipline, probably very lax medical exams for pilots-- an overconfident young pilot, so some pretty small combination of bad luck items could cause the tragedy.

Executive summary: Bad luck unknown malfunction(s) combined with sloppy and/or slow compensating action by mediocre young pilot and a senior pilot somehow disabled by medical or emotional illness.

The older pilot may have well had a cardiac or some other suddenly disabling condition. He was living in the same house with a hot wife from whom he was separated; and might have really been suffering emotionally. As a therapist, I noted the strong asymmetry of his grin, subjective impression is it's the grin of someone hiding pain and/or anger. Also, actually going to the sentencing hearing of a political figure indicates more source of distress and probably quite a bit of anger. This entails some real work-- finding out where the courtroom is, going there despite it being an authoritarian country where people get 5 years for sex, thereby marking yourself as a dissident-- this guy was ALREADY pretty aggressively asserting that he was pissed off just by going to the sentencing.

Big missing answer WHY was he separated from his wife? Was he suffering from some emotional problems so he was beating her, up, ranting about some political crazy shit? People don't get separated for nothing, and it has serious emotional consequences for them most times.

The younger one was overconfident with only 6 flights in that plane , who brought chicks for whole flights post 9/11 (!) into the cockpit and smoked there.

There were too many stressors on the senior pilot, and or lack of discipline on the part of the younger.
Would have liked to see the last physical with blood pressure and cardiac workup on the senior pilot. Was probably a rubber-stamp "You look fine" BS exam.

A couple minor malfunctions may have just been too much for them especially if the senior took ill, perhaps a combination of small problems that on their own wouldn't mean disaster, but here they did.

On a suicide mission, even if it went wrong I don't understand how the plane could have simply flown in a straight line toward Antarctica for 5 hours. If the pilot is a terrorist/suicidal he wouldn't have just flown the plane out to sea until it ran out of gas. Makes no sense.

If somehow both pilots were incapacitated and communications were down, wouldn't one of the crew have tried to fly the plane?

For it to go out to sea in a straight line for the last several hours like that, the only thing that makes sense is a) someone untrained like a steward tried to fly it toward land and didn't know how to do anything or b) once the plane was put on that southward course, the cabin either became inaccessible or everyone on board was incapacitated.

The key thing to understanding what happened will be: why was the plane flown, over open sea, until it ran out of gas? Why didn't someone try to land the plane?

Post: #186

Sp5,
All it takes a few phone calls from the top dog, whomever that may be, to the key people in each country involved, usually the Minister of Defence and or President/PM and they would let their trusted staff to "brief" the media and provide the official version. While something totally different may have happened. Why? Who? And what for? These are the crucial questions we mere mortals not privy to such information may never know about.

(03-24-2014 08:16 PM)Sp5 Wrote:  Scores of planes from several different countries - US, China, NZ, Australia, Malaysia at a minimum - are burning hundreds of thousands of gallons of fuel flying over the S. Indian Ocean looking for it. They are not looking in Pakistan.

Conspiracies that depend on hundreds of people from several countries parroting lies or remaining silent about the truth are unrealistic.

Post: #187

(03-24-2014 10:09 PM)Vacancier Permanent Wrote:  Sp5,
All it takes a few phone calls from the top dog, whomever that may be, to the key people in each country involved, usually the Minister of Defence and or President/PM and they would let their trusted staff to "brief" the media and provide the official version. While something totally different may have happened. Why? Who? And what for? These are the crucial questions we mere mortals not privy to such information may never know about.

(03-24-2014 08:16 PM)Sp5 Wrote:  Scores of planes from several different countries - US, China, NZ, Australia, Malaysia at a minimum - are burning hundreds of thousands of gallons of fuel flying over the S. Indian Ocean looking for it. They are not looking in Pakistan.

Conspiracies that depend on hundreds of people from several countries parroting lies or remaining silent about the truth are unrealistic.

So you think there's a "Top Dog" that can call up Obama, Xi Jinping, and others and get them to waste millions of dollars in resources for a fake search? That a lot of people would not have access to data like the radar tracks and the INMARSAT traces? That there aren't inherently conflicting interests among the different players - Malaysia, China, the USA, Thailand, India, Boeing, Rolls-Royce and others - that would prevent a coordinated suppression of information?

I don't doubt that if the final truth can't be found out - and it may not be possible, because the black box can't be found - various parties will attempt to construct stories based on their own interests. For example, I am sure that Iran will be blamed by some unless proven innocent.

Post: #188

(03-24-2014 10:09 PM)Vacancier Permanent Wrote:  Sp5,
All it takes a few phone calls from the top dog, whomever that may be, to the key people in each country involved, usually the Minister of Defence and or President/PM and they would let their trusted staff to "brief" the media and provide the official version. While something totally different may have happened. Why? Who? And what for? These are the crucial questions we mere mortals not privy to such information may never know about.

(03-24-2014 08:16 PM)Sp5 Wrote:  Scores of planes from several different countries - US, China, NZ, Australia, Malaysia at a minimum - are burning hundreds of thousands of gallons of fuel flying over the S. Indian Ocean looking for it. They are not looking in Pakistan.

Conspiracies that depend on hundreds of people from several countries parroting lies or remaining silent about the truth are unrealistic.

VP I'm curious as to why you take a lot interest in this flight. It seems like you have some connection to someone in it.

Post: #189

Sp5,
It wouldn't be far fetched to picture a few extremely powerful and vastly wealthy people to plan and orchestrate that. It certainly wouldn't be the first nor the last time that something like that to occur.

Obama, Xi Jinping and any other head of state would only be puppets in this scheme with these powerful people being the one calling the shots.

CattleRustler,
I have no connection whatsoever with that flight, it's just that I'm as baffled as anyone in here by the official version. It just doesn't add up to me. I'm sceptical of authorities and the general media, specially those in the Anglosphere by nature. Add to that the uber and painfully incompetence of the Malay government. I mean, what credibility would a government which has been in essence a kind of "democratic" dictature, ruling the country for over 60 years and who are clearly not used to being challenged, have?

Post: #190

We have to start looking for zebras with this case, which is what make it interesting.

And I respectfully ask VP is Malaysian isn't a Banana republic airline, when the chicks in the cockpit/smoking in the cockpit stuff became known (post 9/11) why wasn't the junior pilot fired? That seems prima facie inadequate discipline to me.

Here's some more guesses, I don't know enough about piloting to know how realistic/unrealistic they are.

1) Cockpit locked, small meteor smashes in to windshield and take out both pilots. No one can get into cockpit to fly it. ( But why did it change course???) Or someone inadequately knowledgeable tries to change course and botches it.

It seems that SOME form of pilot disablement or malfeasance happened...or a COMBINATION of both.. Senior pilot puts in new course, then is disabled, junior pilot can't correct...

Post: #191

So, have any actual pieces been recovered and identified from the alleged area by now? Or is everyone still just making assumptions? The ships mentioned as having been sent there should have arrived by now.

Post: #192

My alternate MH370 theory:

Post: #193

Ah well, anymore conspiracy theories or are you guys going to accept that this plane is in the ocean.

Post: #194

I will never accept that this plane crashed into the ocean. Even if I see pictures of them pulling it out.

Post: #195

"A stunning new report prepared by the Main Intelligence Directorate of the General Staff of the Armed Forces (GRU) circulating in the Kremlin today leaves no doubt as to why President Barack Obama warned this week that his greatest fear was not Russia, but rather a nuclear bomb being exploded in the heart of New York City, as it reveals that the pilot of the missing Malaysia Airlines Flight 370, Captain Zaharie Ahmad Shah [photo 2nd left], was a Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) “asset” whose plane was carrying the “dirtiest bomb known to have ever been constructed.”

According to this report, and as we had previously reported, Flight 370 was already under GRU “surveillance” after it received a “highly suspicious” cargo load that had been traced to the Indian Ocean nation Republic of Seychelles, and where it had previously been aboard the US-flagged container ship MV Maersk Alabama.

What first aroused GRU suspicions regarding the MV Maersk Alabama was that within 24-hours of off-loading this “highly suspicious” cargo load bound for Malaysia Airlines Flight 370, the two highly-trained US Navy Seals assigned to protect it, Mark Daniel Kennedy, 43, and Jeffrey Keith Reynolds, 44, were found dead under “suspicious circumstances.”

Both Kennedy and Reynolds were employed by the Virginia Beach, Virginia-based maritime security firm The Trident Group which was founded by US Navy Special Operations Personnel (SEAL’s) and Senior US Naval Surface Warfare Officers and had long been known by the GRU to protect vital transfers of both atomic and biological materials throughout the world.

The GRU, likewise, had reported that this “highly suspicious” cargo, after it was unloaded from the MV Maersk Alabama, on 17 February, was then transferred to Seychelles International Airport where it was loaded on an Emirates flight bound for Kuala Lumpur International Airport (KLIA) in Malaysia, after first stopping over in Dubai.

Prior to Flight 370 entering the People Liberation Army (PLA) protected zones of the South China Sea known as the Spratly Islands after its 8 March departure from KLIA, the GRU had previously reported, it “significantly deviated” from its flight course and was tracked by VKO satellites and radar flying into the Indian Ocean region and completing its nearly 3,447 kilometer (2,142 miles) flight to the Diego Garcia atoll.

Critical to note about Flight 370’s flight deviation, GRU experts said, was that it occurred during the same time period that all of the Spratly Island mobile phone communications operated by China Mobile were being jammed.

As to why Flight 370 was diverted to Diego Garcia, the GRU reported it was initially “puzzled” about, that is until 16 March when it reported that top disease scientists from both the US and China were flown there, and on 21 March reported that the “highly suspicious” cargo aboard the plane had been transferred to the White Sands Missile Range in New Mexico where it was then destroyed in a “massive explosion.”

Important to note, this new GRU report says, is that Diego Garcia has long been a “prime target” for adversaries of the US due to its being the location from where the wars against Iraq and Afghanistan were directed, and its being the one of the CIA’s most feared “black sites” of torture and abuse of prisoners.

Most “gravely concerning” about Flight 370, this new GRU report says, was that its Captain, Zaharie Ahmad Shah, was discovered to have in his home a flight simulator containing The Flight Termination System (FTS) which allows an aircraft to be remotely controlled, as well as landing instructions for Diego Garcia.

The FTS, the GRU notes, is a fully redundant turn-key range safety and test system for remote control and flight termination of airborne test vehicles that consists of a Command Transmitter System (CTS) and custom control, interface, and monitoring subsystems. The system is fully programmable and is flexible enough to meet the changing requirements of today's modern test ranges, its manufacturer, System Planning Corporation (SPC) says.

Critical to note about the FTS manufacturer SPC, this report says, is that it was once headed by the mysterious American “war hawk” Dov Zakheim who many still believe was one of the masterminds behind the 11 September 2011 attacks upon the US, and who in a 2000 position paper titled Rebuilding America's Defenses which called for “a New Pearl Harbor.”

NOTE: In a document called “Rebuilding America’s Defenses: Strategy, Forces and Resources for a New Century” published by The American Enterprise’s “Project for a New American Century”(1), System Planning Corporation (SPC) International executive, Dov Zakheim, called for “some catastrophic and catalyzing event – like a new Pearl Harbor” being necessary to foster the frame of mind needed for the American public to support a war in the Middle East that would politically and culturally reshape the region. A respected and established voice in the intelligence community, his views were eagerly accepted, and Dov went from his position at Systems Planning Corporation to become the Comptroller of the Pentagon in May 2001. Perhaps not so coincidentally, it was an SPC subsidiary, TRIDATA CORPORATION, that oversaw the investigation after the terrorist attack on the World Trade Center in 1993.

As to Captain Shah’s complicity in the destruction of Flight 370, this report continues, GRU assests have confirmed his being targeted by a CIA “honey trap” which destroyed his marriage and left him in “no state of mind to be flying.”

This GRU report further confirms Malaysian investigators discovery that Captain Shah received a two-minute call shortly before the take-off of Flight 370 from this CIA “honey pot” using a mobile phone number obtained under a false identity.

As to the course of Flight 370 once it left KLIA, the GRU says, it is “nearly assured” that Captain Shah disabled the communication systems and “activated” the FTS allowing the US Navy to divert it to Diego Garcia, but only after it had ascended to nearly 44,000 feet where “undoubtedly” all of the other passengers and crew were killed by asphyxiation.

After the “highly suspicious” cargo Flight 370 was carrying was offloaded in Diego Garcia, GRU analysts in this report say, its “most likely” tragic ending occurred around 3,218 kilometers (2,000 miles) off Diego Garcia, which is part of Britain’s Indian Ocean territory, where it was deliberately destroyed as evidenced by the over 300 objects spotted in this region by a Thai satellite.

As to what exactly the “highly suspicious” cargo aboard Flight 370 was this report doesn’t say, other than to note that due to the extraordinary, and deadly, lengths the US went through to obtain and then destroy it most likely could have been the “dirtiest bomb known to have ever been constructed.”

Also left unanswered in this report is who within the US is responsible for all of these events, as the GRU says it is “highly unlikely” that Obama was even “in the loop” regarding it."

Post: #196

^^ MS - any source for that?

Post: #197

Samsamsam I read it on:
Whatdoesitmean.com

Post: #198

I remember seeing something about Diego Garcia earlier, but how could a giant plane have landed there and no one noticed? People do live on the surrounding islands.

Post: #199

Isn't whatdoesitmean.com a bit of a whack job site?

Post: #200

The articles at the top of the site are more conspiracy theory oriented yes.

But after those on the bottom they post a lot of good links to mainstream articles.

That story is more believable to me than all the other bs though.