Post: #526

(05-04-2017 03:22 PM)Kona Wrote:  That place is weird...

How does the photographer know that the guys by train are selling human feces? He's zipping by on a train, and they don't have a sign?

As wacky as the place is, just remember the propaganda goes both ways.

Post: #527

(05-04-2017 02:37 PM)Sherman Wrote:  After all, isn't America suppose to be about having a difference of opinion?

Beats Mexico where killing journalist seems to be a national hobby.

You and Mercenary should head over to North Korea and travel the country while taking pictures. You can give us first hand knowledge of how easy it is to freely traveling the country, like you would do in South Korea, and report back on how great the place is. Take pictures of everything. Talk to everyone. They love that there.

Post: #528

(05-04-2017 03:22 PM)Kona Wrote:  That place is weird...

How does the photographer know that the guys by train are selling human feces? He's zipping by on a train, and they don't have a sign?

As wacky as the place is, just remember the propaganda goes both ways.

Aloha!

Maybe his government appointed guide told him.

Post: #529

(05-04-2017 04:59 PM)worldwidetraveler Wrote:  

(05-04-2017 02:37 PM)Sherman Wrote:  After all, isn't America suppose to be about having a difference of opinion?

Beats Mexico where killing journalist seems to be a national hobby.

You and Mercenary should head over to North Korea and travel the country while taking pictures. You can give us first hand knowledge of how easy it is to freely traveling the country, like you would do in South Korea, and report back on how great the place is. Take pictures of everything. Talk to everyone. They love that there.

Is there any value to this post? I don't need to go to North Korea. I have just been advocating that we leave them alone.

Post: #530

(05-04-2017 05:14 PM)Sherman Wrote:  Is there any value to this post? I don't need to go to North Korea. I have just been advocating that we leave them alone.

I haven't seen much value from your posts. You post a video of a North Korean guy walking on air and trying to say they are incredible soldiers. Another video of an empty pizza place.

You went way beyond advocating that we leave North Korea alone. Even to the point of saying Kim Jong Un is a good man.

Here is North Korea blowing up Washington DC. It is from the same people who made your pizza video so it must be true.





You sound a lot like the muslim apologists after a terrorist attack.

Post: #531

(05-04-2017 05:21 PM)worldwidetraveler Wrote:  Here is North Korea blowing up Washington DC. It is from the same people who made your pizza video so it must be true.

Yeah...and the USA makes huge big budget films like "the interview" where for 2 hours they humiliate and then kill off the NorK leader.
So who's really spending more money on hateful propaganda ?

Post: #532

(05-04-2017 05:36 PM)Mercenary Wrote:  Yeah...and the USA makes huge big budget films like "the interview" where for 2 hours they humiliate and then kill off the NK leader.
So who's really spending more money on hateful propaganda ?

The US government did not make "the interview".

How many films has Hollywood made making fun of our own government? How many films has the people of North Korea made making fun of their government?

Post: #533

(05-04-2017 05:38 PM)worldwidetraveler Wrote:  The US government did not make "the interview".

Hollywood = US Government

Quote: Obama hails move to screen North Korea film

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-30594820

US President Barack Obama has welcomed a decision by Sony to screen a "comedy" about North Korea in a limited number of US cinemas on Christmas Day.

24 December 2014

He had earlier criticised Sony for pulling the film following a cyber-attack and threats against cinemas.The US has accused North Korea of being behind the cyber-attack. The film is expected to show in 200 mostly independent and art-house cinemas on Thursday. Hackers have threatened fresh attacks. Mr Obama had called Sony's earlier decision to cancel the film's release a "mistake". His spokesman, Eric Schultz, said in a statement that the president applauded the change of mind.

Post: #534

(05-04-2017 05:55 PM)Mercenary Wrote:  Hollywood = US Government

Several times, in this thread, you ignore things that are counter to your argument and try to pick only portions of the post to counter.

I will ask again, how many movies has Hollywood made that shows the US government in a bad light?

Surely the US Goverment wouldn't allow Hollywood to make a movie that makes them look bad if they control Hollywood.

Quote: Obama hails move to screen North Korea film

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-30594820

US President Barack Obama has welcomed a decision by Sony to screen a "comedy" about North Korea in a limited number of US cinemas on Christmas Day.

24 December 2014

He had earlier criticised Sony for pulling the film following a cyber-attack and threats against cinemas.The US has accused North Korea of being behind the cyber-attack. The film is expected to show in 200 mostly independent and art-house cinemas on Thursday. Hackers have threatened fresh attacks. Mr Obama had called Sony's earlier decision to cancel the film's release a "mistake". His spokesman, Eric Schultz, said in a statement that the president applauded the change of mind.

Right, Obama told Sony that they shouldn't allow hackers to stop them from airing a "controversial" movie. You are being intellectually dishonest now and I will bow out of this thread.

Post: #535

(05-04-2017 06:17 PM)worldwidetraveler Wrote:  I will ask again, how many movies has Hollywood made that shows the US government in a bad light?

Surely the US Goverment wouldn't allow Hollywood to make a movie that makes them look bad if they control Hollywood.

The deep state stays in control no matter what movies get made, no matter who gets voted into office, or how much you bitch publically about how things are awful.
There's no need to censor criticism if you are the one who finances and controls all the criticism.
It's called controlled opposition.

Kind of like Alex Jones and infowars...they sound like the opposition, but you never get to the bottom of anything following them.
All you get with Alex Jones are years and years of endless teasers with no payoff, smoking gun, or moneyshot.

Post: #536

(05-04-2017 05:14 PM)Sherman Wrote:  

(05-04-2017 04:59 PM)worldwidetraveler Wrote:  

(05-04-2017 02:37 PM)Sherman Wrote:  After all, isn't America suppose to be about having a difference of opinion?

Beats Mexico where killing journalist seems to be a national hobby.

You and Mercenary should head over to North Korea and travel the country while taking pictures. You can give us first hand knowledge of how easy it is to freely traveling the country, like you would do in South Korea, and report back on how great the place is. Take pictures of everything. Talk to everyone. They love that there.

Is there any value to this post? I don't need to go to North Korea. I have just been advocating that we leave them alone.

You've been advocating that Lil' Kim is a good man who needs our support, dear. Explicitly. PM me your address, I'll send you a nice Mao cap with a shiny red star on it. Have you found that news article critical of Kim in a North Korean newspaper yet, or do you need more time?

God save us from people who mean well. -storm

Post: #537

(05-04-2017 04:01 PM)Mercenary Wrote:  

(05-04-2017 03:22 PM)Kona Wrote:  That place is weird...

How does the photographer know that the guys by train are selling human feces? He's zipping by on a train, and they don't have a sign?

As wacky as the place is, just remember the propaganda goes both ways.

But on balance, if forced to pick between a place where you can't take any photographs without permission and where its ruler cannot be criticised, and a place where someone can on mainstream TV accuse the President of sucking Vladimir Putin's cock without the secret police busting down his door, I'd be inclined to accept the propaganda of the latter.

God save us from people who mean well. -storm

Post: #538

Mercenary-

I asked you a question on the last page.

Post: #539

Anti-Nork: (Detailed 50 page expose listing independent historical facts about why NorK is a hellish example of genocidal totalitarianism) "...and they eat nothing but gruel and cabbage."

Pro-NorK: (Paragraph long rebuttal about the last 8 words of the previous post) "...and here's a picture of a pizza parlour to prove it. CHECKMATE!!!".

Post: #540

(05-04-2017 07:29 PM)SamuelBRoberts Wrote:  Mercenary-

I asked you a question on the last page.

I read NHK and Japan times.
My small harem of J-girls translate the local stuff.
I don't live there...but I've been enough times to understand that social harmony will always outweigh strong criticism of the state and its policies.

People dont like saying "no" there and ruining harmony...so you gotta rephrase questions in the form of "You must be too busy to go on a date with a handsome gaijin tonight - right ?"

But if you live there, you'll know better then me.

Post: #541

(05-04-2017 08:13 PM)Mercenary Wrote:  

(05-04-2017 07:29 PM)SamuelBRoberts Wrote:  Mercenary-

I asked you a question on the last page.

I read NHK and Japan times.
My small harem of J-girls translate the local stuff.
I don't live there...but I've been enough times to understand that social harmony will always outweigh strong criticism of the state and its policies.

People dont like saying "no" there and ruining harmony...so you gotta rephrase questions in the form of "You must be too busy to go on a date with a handsome gaijin tonight - right ?"

But if you live there, you'll know better then me.

It strikes me that when it comes to criticism of the state and its policies, there's rather a qualitative difference between the words "strong" and "none".

Japan is in the former category, North Korea the latter. Trying to hide that difference under the cloud of Oriental Culture ™ is a bit intellectually dishonest. Particularly when Japanese journalists themselves have criticised the Japanese government for restrictions on freedom of speech. Absent good old Sherman coming up with a long-awaited article proving otherwise, you would not see that happen in North Korea, Oriental Culture ™ or not.

Similar issue from the previous page: I'd find Lil' Kim acting like a Chinese emperor less amusing if he was running an actual empire, as opposed to the democratic republic the country's title claims it is and the fact it holds "elections" (in which no other candidate is ever on the roll, you must vote, and you cannot vote in secret.)

God save us from people who mean well. -storm

Post: #542

One thing I noticed about the videos of North Korea is I don't see any utility poles. In third world countries, there is a tangle of wires above you and utility poles carrying electricity. Even in Mexico, most of the electricity is carried by utility poles. But nothing in North Korea. Which means it is underground. North Korea is not a third world country.

   

Post: #543

North Korea for the North Koreans. Americans have no right to impose their degenerate values on other people living in other lands. The four most beautiful words in the English language: "Mind your own business".

Post: #544

Ancient NorK values, like Communism and the art of the hand accordian. Practiced yea unto three generations!

Post: #545

(05-04-2017 11:26 PM)Sherman Wrote:  One thing I noticed about the videos of North Korea is I don't see any utility poles. In third world countries, there is a tangle of wires above you and utility poles carrying electricity. Even in Mexico, most of the electricity is carried by utility poles. But nothing in North Korea. Which means it is underground. North Korea is not a third world country.

I'm sure the lights are on in Potemkin Pyongyang.

Not so much the rest of the country:

God save us from people who mean well. -storm

Post: #546

It takes some very determined delusion to believe North Korea is full of free, happy, nourished people just strolling freely around pizza shops. Not even North Koreans believe the shit their government tells them and shows them anymore.

I think one of the escapees now living in Seoul just spit up his noodles seeing a westerner posting Kim's propaganda as "proof".

On a side note, I think we've reached peak "The West Is Degenerate". You have guys praising a starving, murderous Necrocracy that has imprisoned and executed entire families for the grave crime of one member escaping the country, but this is superior to the USA because thin pie faced Asian girls are wearing heels there still and are perhaps more pleasant, or something. Who needs food anyway? Look, underground electrical lines!

I will take the "degenerate West" every day and twice on Sunday over North Korea, Venezuela, Syria and the numerous other shitholes that the trolls love to praise for their "resistance of the West".

Post: #547

(05-05-2017 12:28 AM)Paracelsus Wrote:  

(05-04-2017 11:26 PM)Sherman Wrote:  One thing I noticed about the videos of North Korea is I don't see any utility poles. In third world countries, there is a tangle of wires above you and utility poles carrying electricity. Even in Mexico, most of the electricity is carried by utility poles. But nothing in North Korea. Which means it is underground. North Korea is not a third world country.

I'm sure the lights are on in Potemkin Pyongyang.

Not so much the rest of the country:

The lights are underground just like the poles. That's why you can't see them from space.

(05-05-2017 01:17 AM)GlobalMan Wrote:  On a side note, I think we've reached peak "The West Is Degenerate". You have guys praising a starving, murderous Necrocracy that has imprisoned and executed entire families for the grave crime of one member escaping the country, but this is superior to the USA because thin pie faced Asian girls are wearing heels there still and are perhaps more pleasant, or something. Who needs food anyway? Look, underground electrical lines!

I think we've reached peak this thread, honestly. In the last week or so we've seen an "expert" on Korean history who got mysteriously quiet when asked to prove that the US was using Japan as an aircraft carrier in the time period before airplanes were invented, a guy who's speaking definitively on Japanese culture despite the fact that he can't even read a newspaper in the language (Of all the places to try and play the "You guys just don't know Asian culture like I do" card, this forum is probably one of the worst), and a guy who thinks North Korea is superior to the west because of their accordions.

It's the same game of "None of that bad stuff in communist countries is real, and even if it is real, the west is just as bad!" that every westerner involved even partially in politics has been forced to deal with for almost a century now. Entire books have been written debunking this stuff. It never ends, it just goes on and on like some particularly goofy game of whack-a-mole.

Post: #548

(05-05-2017 12:28 AM)Paracelsus Wrote:  

(05-04-2017 11:26 PM)Sherman Wrote:  One thing I noticed about the videos of North Korea is I don't see any utility poles. In third world countries, there is a tangle of wires above you and utility poles carrying electricity. Even in Mexico, most of the electricity is carried by utility poles. But nothing in North Korea. Which means it is underground. North Korea is not a third world country.

I'm sure the lights are on in Potemkin Pyongyang.

Not so much the rest of the country:

Commie trolls are getting lazy. Let me intervene to keep this thread hot.

Glorious leader is wise and knows well the peril of global warming. At night time he and his loyal, happy and nourished people are reading to their children by candlelight before getting a good nights sleep and waking fresh and early for another happy and productive day in the happy and productive and happily productive land of True Korea.

Absent the bourgeois luxuries of electric light and agricultural vehicles among other things, the happy, productive, happuctive prodappy people of North Korea save themselves not only from wasteful, soul destroying decadence but also save the environment.

CHECKMATE!!!

Post: #549

Let's get this thread back to something coherent please?

(bolded and italics are mine)

**********

China record suggests Trump look elsewhere for handling Pyongyang

GRANT NEWSHAM / ASIA TIMES / MAY 3, 2017

Through his newfound friendship with China President Xi Jinping, US President Donald Trump isn’t the first one in the job who thinks he can handle adversaries better than his predecessors. And he is likely to be just as successful.

We might be looking at the Asian equivalent of George W. Bush looking into Russian President Vladimir Putin’s eyes and ‘getting a sense of his soul,’ or perhaps the Obama Administration’s ‘reset’ with Putin.

Trump is an experienced negotiator, so he’s aware that it’s helpful if both parties to a deal have ‘converging objectives,’ actually want to reach an agreement, and will make necessary concessions. The US wants a denuclearized North Korea and believes Beijing must want the same thing. But maybe China doesn’t?

There is scant evidence over 25 years that China wants to help out with North Korea — even though it could shut down the Pyongyang regime in a week.

This suggests we should consider that Washington and Beijing have ‘diverging objectives’ not only over North Korea but China’s interest in dominating northeast Asia and undermining US alliances.

So as America fixates on a North Korea without nuclear weapons or ICBMs, perhaps consider that such a goal just isn’t as important in Beijing?

Hence, China never quite delivers on the American requests and meantime improves its strategic and tactical position in the wider Asia Pacific region at US expense.

Ironically, China has always been clear about it’s broader and ultimate objective — to displace the United States from its leading role in Asia.

Playing for time

One need only listen to what the People’s Republic of China says and writes — not to mention what it does. Successive US administrations have simply chosen not to believe them.

Timing matters in negotiations. President Xi is vulnerable during the run up to the 19th Party Congress in autumn 2017 – and dearly wants to avoid trouble with the Americans.

A top-notch negotiator knows this is the time to push hard for China’s help with North Korea. After the Party Congress and if Xi gets his people in place, China will be far less inclined to strike a deal — or at least one the Americans want.

Xi only needs to play for time, and with the proper mix of flattery and ‘bait’ looks like he might succeed.

Trump’s recent claim of having a “very good personal relationship” with Xi and that China’s president “is doing everything in his power to help (with North Korea)” suggests Xi has done a good job of handling the master negotiator in the White House.

Look at evidence

The Trump Administration might ask what its recent concessions towards China have produced in return.

After some initial stern talk aimed at Beijing, President Trump has laid off talk of tariffs and sanctions, kowtowed on the One China Policy, and snubbed Taiwan and its democratically elected President.

Indeed, shabby treatment of Taiwan — which is a clear example that Chinese can do quite well under an elected democratic government — suggests to Beijing that all of America’s principles are negotiable.

And while smooth talking Trump, look at what President Xi is doing to America’s allies in the region.

Beijing bullies and threatens South Korea and is even publicly talking about military strikes against THAAD missile defence systems in the country that are manned by US troops.

China demonizes Japan, another American ally, and tightens the noose around Japanese territory in the East China Sea.

Meantime, Taiwan receives threats, berating, and economic pressure from Beijing.

Right advice?

If history lessons about the Korean peninsula are needed to guide US negotiating strategy, Trump might do better for advice than to rely on the General Secretary of the Chinese Communist Party.

Trump has some excellent — not to mention American — advisors on his staff or otherwise available. Though he ought to question advice from anyone who has been making money off of China — past or present — or hopes to do so in the future.

In this regard, a certain former Harvard professor comes to mind. His negotiating skills laid the groundwork for 45 years of accommodating Beijing. That’s led to today’s situation where China has all but seized the South China Sea and is on the verge of displacing US influence in the region.

Indeed, this gentleman’s other negotiating masterwork was the Vietnam peace accords, which within two years had North Vietnamese tanks knocking down the gates of the US Embassy in Saigon.

Follow his advice, as seems to be happening, and the Trump Administration may find itself negotiating ‘peace with honor’ as it skulks out of Asia.

If Trump is going to have any success he’ll do well to note the following: When negotiating with the Chinese, assuming of course success is desired, operate from a position of strength and be willing to walk away from the table.

The US currently has a strong hand to play towards Beijing over North Korea, and ought to play it.

Finally, instead of The Art of the Deal as one’s negotiating guide, a more useful book is Admiral C. Turner Joy’s How Communists Negotiate.

This is based on his experiences helping negotiate the Korean War Armistice. And keep in mind the North Koreans learned about negotiating from the Chinese.


If Trump doesn’t heed Admiral Joy’s advice or listen to more sober and untainted advisors about dealing with China, he’ll do well to revise the next printing of The Art of the Deal and include Rudyard Kipling’s line, ‘A fool lies here who tried to hustle the East.’

Grant Newsham is a retired US Marine Officer and a Senior Research Fellow at the Japan Forum for Strategic Studies.


*****

The guy who wrote this article knows his stuff quite well. Interesting analysis of the long game that China is playing. I tend to agree

One thing that has not been brought up in this thread, much to my surprise:

The Korean stock index, the KOSPI is currently trading at all time highs....

Is this really what people do during an impending war or attack? I don't think so.

Post: #550

Well, I never thought I would see anything of the sort:

North Korea denounces China, claims it has 'protected' Beijing

Quote:May 4 (UPI) -- North Korea condemned China in strong language, in the latest sign of a growing rift between Beijing and the Kim Jong Un regime over North Korea's nuclear weapons program.

The statement from North Korea is unprecedented because it addressed China directly, and exposed the increasingly problematic relationship between the two neighbors.

Pyongyang's state-controlled news agency KCNA issued the statement on Thursday and claimed the message was from a North Korean official.

"It is not China that is the target of [its own] deceptive and treacherous actions, but North Korea's strategic interests that have been infringed upon," the statement read, adding China was sacrificing the "dignity and survival" of the Pyongyang regime.

North Korea referred to editorials that ran in Chinese state newspapers, and charged Beijing with playing along with the United States.

"The United States has been plotting domination of the Asia-Pacific for a long time, even before we acquired nuclear weapons, and their chief target is China," Pyongyang stated, adding the country had been serving as a "protecting role" or buffer zone on China's behalf, against U.S. strategies.

In April, China's Global Times had issued an opinion suggesting Beijing should stand with the United Nations Security Council sanctions resolutions against North Korea.

The editorial had also recommended China to prepare for North Korea condemnations, which would be issued in order to influence China's next move.

On Thursday the Chinese foreign ministry denied any wrongdoing, and said Beijing has a "fair and objective position" with regards to all concerned parties.