Post: #5776

I think I started using Tinder back in late October or so. And I have had semi-good results. So far 3 bangs, all within the 3rd meetup/date. I have another prospect that I hope becomes Tinder bang #4 on Thursday, but I don't want to count my chickens before they hatch. Going over to her place to watch a movie and that usually means we will be fucking.

However I will say that the girls I have banged are in the 34-40 age range. They are 4-5's. I think the 19-28 year old age bracket just gets hammered with messages and someone mentioned earlier that these girls are just overwhelmed and not really sure who or what to do.

And I know it's been harped on so much, but the audacity of some of these girls is ridiculous. Land whales who demand that a guy be over 6 foot to even contact them first is just so fucking asinine. They are in NO position to make such demands. But the environment has created these fucking monsters and we have to deal with it.

Post: #5777

I am in Los Angeles San Fernando valley and tinder is turning into okcupid in results and quality. It has for the most part stopped being a hookup/dating app and more of a promotional check out my Snapchat/ instagram app for girls. Girls even say in bio " just here for laughs", " buy me weed", " only check this when I am bored." They love the validation of men liking them and then turn it off. Not saying it is completely dead but it is definitely in its decline.

Had the occasion to talk to some 17-19yr old girls. I brought up online dating and the results were not encouraging--they never even heard of okcupid, pof, match they had heard of but 1 girl said she would never use it because her mom is on it, regarding tinder most had accounts but never actually met anyone on it. They liked swiping men's pictures for entertainment and flirting. Regarding how they actually meet people it seemed to be mainly social circle/ friends. They were aware of other dating apps like happn but not serious about them. General consensus was that only desperate women were seriously doing online dating.

Post: #5778

I used a boost today and after about 10 minutes of constant right swiping it told me I had nobody nearby. I put my distance and age to the maximum, changed location and still no joy.

I deleted and downloaded the app, twiddled lots of my tinder settings, took away facebook access and gave it back, logged out and back in and still it was not showing me anybody.

I deleted my account and reopened it and it worked. I used another boost and within 15 minutes and about 1000 blind right swipes the same problem occured.

Anybody had this before? Is it a new punishment from tinder for autoswiping right?

Post: #5779

@flaghunter...possible. How long have you been using Tinder? What's your typical match rate like (how many matches per day or week)? How often do you delete Tinder and create a new account.

It could be a bunch of reasons: 1) as you mentioned, Tinder may be punishing you for auyoswiping, 2) maybe there's not enough women in the area, 3) low online dating activity this time of the year for the location you're in

I'm on the East Coast and December/January has been very slow for me on Tinder.

Post: #5780

I have used tinder for 4 years, match average 50 per week although I think that is insignificant.

First delete and recreate today in a year.

There is definitely enough girls, if I change to NYC it tells me nobody is around!

Do we think it is Tinder punishing me or just a shitty bug?
Any alternatives to deleting my account and losing all matches?

Post: #5781

It could be Tinder punishing you for auto swiping. Maybe you triggered something in their algorithm. Nobody really knows.

Sometimes the best thing to do is do nothing.

Wait a day. Do you see anyone new? No - then wait maybe even a week. Then try again and see what happens.

Post: #5782

Curious, when you guys "delete and recreate" are you starting over completely? I've deleted/uninstalled tinder twice now and each time I go back on I still have my old matches. I log in with my (fake) Facebook each time. Is there another method to "start over"? Log in with a new account/new Facebook?

Post: #5783

(01-20-2017 09:43 PM)blacknwhitespade Wrote:  Curious, when you guys "delete and recreate" are you starting over completely? I've deleted/uninstalled tinder twice now and each time I go back on I still have my old matches. I log in with my (fake) Facebook each time. Is there another method to "start over"? Log in with a new account/new Facebook?

are you de-authorizing the tinder app under facebook?

remove it here:

https://www.facebook.com/settings?tab=applications

then wait 12 hour or so

Post: #5784

I love the "So are you on Tinder just for a hook up" question. Never fails. I haven't had the balls just to outright say "Yes" yet. I usually say something like "I don't really set expectations. What happens, happens".

I literally just told a girl that an hour ago and she replied with "Good answer".

Post: #5785

Just thought I'd add some intel on what I've noticed about my tinder matches in the different places I've set my location to (although this might be better in the travel section).

America (Houston, Los Angeles): In Houston I probably average 1.5 or 2 matches a day, and many are uggos or fatties. Los Angeles I get more matches and the quality is better.

Europe (Amsterdam, Reykjavik): 1 or 2 matches a day, very few of which actually respond.

Mid East (Tehran): 1-4 matches a day, but not that many girls are on tinder to begin with. I run out of women to swipe within 5 minutes. Also I am Iranian and have an Iranian name, so I might be getting more matches than others would because of that.

East Asia (Bangkok, Manila): I've only tried BKK for a day or two at most, but matches were less than 10 a day. Manila was tied for the place where I got the most matches. I've gotten hundreds of matches there in no time, and most are responsive and open to sex talk.

Latin America (Santo Domingo): I was so pleasantly surprised to find that in the DR I got as many matches as Manila, maybe even more, and more girls would start the conversation than anywhere else. In one day I got over 50 matches.

These are just some of my results from experimenting with different locations when I'm bored. I don't know if this translates into how easily one can get laid in said locations, but it does indicate how much footwork has to be done in a given spot as opposed to layups from tinder.

Post: #5786

(01-03-2017 06:38 PM)StackGsMan Wrote:  

(01-03-2017 06:28 PM)Eugenics Wrote:  

(01-03-2017 06:25 PM)StackGsMan Wrote:  I really don't know how guys pull off getting many notches from tinder, especially without dating. Does it have anything to do with where I'm located (Houston)?

Tinder is really shallow.

What do your pictures and bio look like? Pictures obviously being the most important thing.

They aren't the best pictures, but they are from a few years back when I was pretty fit. A lot of girls ask me if I'm Indian based on my main picture because it is kind of dark. I'm actually a light skinned middle eastern guy with hazel eyes, not Indian or Indian looking at all.

I've mainly only gotten Middle Eastern/ South Asian girls and black girls to match. I actually don't mind that because I am mainly concerned with getting flags from tinder, but I can't recall more than a couple of decent looking white or asian girls matching me in about a year.

I'm pretty stumped. My pictures aren't great by any means, but I'm a tall and handsome guy (being objective).

Houston has been arguably the worst Tinder city for me I have ever done in the world. Even worse than Marxist SJW cities like Portland and Seattle.

Post: #5787

I haven't gone through the approx. 6,000 posts on this thread yet, so apologies if this has been asked before...
Has anyone here been using hiking or skydiving photos? I hear they're good 'activity' type photos, but haven't heard/read anything more specific than that.
Have any girls opened you directly re these types of photos? Are they a useful DHV in subsequent tinder/text/date conversation?
What are some other activities have you displayed through photos that have generated noticeable interest? (besides the obvious travel/partying/pre-selection ones)

Post: #5788

(01-25-2017 06:48 PM)Ouroboros Wrote:  I haven't gone through the approx. 6,000 posts on this thread yet, so apologies if this has been asked before...
Has anyone here been using hiking or skydiving photos? I hear they're good 'activity' type photos, but haven't heard/read anything more specific than that.
Have any girls opened you directly re these types of photos? Are they a useful DHV in subsequent tinder/text/date conversation?
What are some other activities have you displayed through photos that have generated noticeable interest? (besides the obvious travel/partying/pre-selection ones)

"Activity" type photos are a waste of time IMO. No girl is going to go, wow! That guy went skydiving, I want his cock. The only benefit they have is if it is some activity that the girl is really passionate about.

The general wisdom that I've been given in this thread is that taking quality professional photos that accentuate your looks is the way to go.

Post: #5789

(01-25-2017 06:59 PM)StackGsMan Wrote:  "Activity" type photos are a waste of time IMO. No girl is going to go, wow! That guy went skydiving, I want his cock. The only benefit they have is if it is some activity that the girl is really passionate about.

The general wisdom that I've been given in this thread is that taking quality professional photos that accentuate your looks is the way to go.

One of the key take-home messages I've got from reading the forum and Roosh's work is that female to male attraction is more complicated than the converse (which is almost entirely based on looks). This has been borne out in real life observations and experience.
'Dropping bait' during day game is supposed to be a way of displaying value or 'interestingness', and by extension attractive qualities - tenacity, leadership, etc. The online analogue of this would be displaying the same qualities in pictorial form. Skydiving isn't interesting by itself but it shows courage to jump out a plane; hiking shows that you get out and aren't a bedridden basement dweller.
Granted tinder is a looks based medium so what you've said must still be important, but if the only pictures you have are quasi-modelling pictures that emphasise your looks alone, wouldn't that miss the other attraction points you could be displaying, and even come across as vain?

Post: #5790

(01-25-2017 06:59 PM)StackGsMan Wrote:  

(01-25-2017 06:48 PM)Ouroboros Wrote:  I haven't gone through the approx. 6,000 posts on this thread yet, so apologies if this has been asked before...
Has anyone here been using hiking or skydiving photos? I hear they're good 'activity' type photos, but haven't heard/read anything more specific than that.
Have any girls opened you directly re these types of photos? Are they a useful DHV in subsequent tinder/text/date conversation?
What are some other activities have you displayed through photos that have generated noticeable interest? (besides the obvious travel/partying/pre-selection ones)

"Activity" type photos are a waste of time IMO. No girl is going to go, wow! That guy went skydiving, I want his cock. The only benefit they have is if it is some activity that the girl is really passionate about.

The general wisdom that I've been given in this thread is that taking quality professional photos that accentuate your looks is the way to go.

Also, the aerial look-at-me-I'm-skydiving! photo is almost as ubiquitous as the Machu Picchu selfie.

Find something more unusually adventurous.

Post: #5791

(01-25-2017 07:20 PM)blacknwhitespade Wrote:  Also, the aerial look-at-me-I'm-skydiving! photo is almost as ubiquitous as the Machu Picchu selfie.

Find something more unusually adventurous.

That's a good point.

Post: #5792

(01-25-2017 07:16 PM)Ouroboros Wrote:  

(01-25-2017 06:59 PM)StackGsMan Wrote:  "Activity" type photos are a waste of time IMO. No girl is going to go, wow! That guy went skydiving, I want his cock. The only benefit they have is if it is some activity that the girl is really passionate about.

The general wisdom that I've been given in this thread is that taking quality professional photos that accentuate your looks is the way to go.

One of the key take-home messages I've got from reading the forum and Roosh's work is that female to male attraction is more complicated than the converse (which is almost entirely based on looks). This has been borne out in real life observations and experience.
'Dropping bait' during day game is supposed to be a way of displaying value or 'interestingness', and by extension attractive qualities - tenacity, leadership, etc. The online analogue of this would be displaying the same qualities in pictorial form. Skydiving isn't interesting by itself but it shows courage to jump out a plane; hiking shows that you get out and aren't a bedridden basement dweller.
Granted tinder is a looks based medium so what you've said must still be important, but if the only pictures you have are quasi-modelling pictures that emphasise your looks alone, wouldn't that miss the other attraction points you could be displaying, and even come across as vain?

You are 100% correct that female to male attraction is more complicated, but you are nonetheless pushing your own views and a male perspective on what you believe demonstrates higher value. The sexiest thing to a woman is not pure looks, but how you make her FEEL. That translates to the things you say and physically do WHILE IN HER PRESENCE. That is what game is, not your hobbies or interests. In fact, for the most part if you talk about your hobbies and interests early on and she does not share an interest in those things she will either:

1. Humor you because she likes you or
2. Get bored really quick

If you think I'm wrong try talking about skydiving and hiking to several women and try to gauge how well it works for you. The goal in interacting with women is to make them FEEL something inside themselves. Being funny makes them laugh and feel happy, telling a dramatic and sad story makes them cry, etc. Those are real emotions and make them come closer to you.

What would knowing that you skydive or hike make them feel? I'd be willing to bet, nothing.

Now all of that is in relation to game itself, but you tried to draw an analogy to the MOST VAIN medium of meeting women on the planet, tinder. Taking a picture of yourself in the woods is a terrible way of showing that you are a physically active man. The best way is to have a great picture that shows your figure well (I'm not talking about a shirtless pic at the gym). Having a good figure that is clear in a professional picture shows that you are physically active (guys with good bodies don't get that way for no reason) and it gives her something to be attracted to. I'm a man, and just by that fact alone I am more interested in hiking and shit like that than 90% of women, but even if I saw a pic of a guy or girl hiking I'd probably just think, "smelly wannabe hippy".

Also, I in no way think of courage when I think of people jumping out of planes. At best I think they are adventurous, and at worst I think they are outright stupid. No girl, save those that are obsessed with skydiving themselves, thinks to herself about a guy skydiving and gets wet because he's "courageous".

Post: #5793

(01-25-2017 08:04 PM)StackGsMan Wrote:  The sexiest thing to a woman is not pure looks, but how you make her FEEL. That translates to the things you say and physically do WHILE IN HER PRESENCE. That is what game is, not your hobbies or interests. In fact, for the most part if you talk about your hobbies and interests early on and she does not share an interest in those things she will either:

1. Humor you because she likes you or
2. Get bored really quick

If you think I'm wrong try talking about skydiving and hiking to several women and try to gauge how well it works for you. The goal in interacting with women is to make them FEEL something inside themselves. Being funny makes them laugh and feel happy, telling a dramatic and sad story makes them cry, etc. Those are real emotions and make them come closer to you.

What would knowing that you skydive or hike make them feel? I'd be willing to bet, nothing.

I don’t disagree with you entirely. I’m not advocating using such photos as a spring board for in-depth conversations about a particular hobby. The point I was trying to make is that photos of you doing certain activities can be used to display qualities that are themselves attractive; i.e. they are a DHV.
Certain posters here seem to think that female attraction is based entirely on emotion. Whilst I respect their opinion, and concede that triggering emotion is a vital and indispensable part of attraction, I can’t share such a reductionist view. It just doesn’t accord with my experiences thus far.
For example, I have knowledge of several languages. I have seen a Muslim girl’s eyes light up when I’ve written her name in Arabic and spouted a few sentences (we didn’t go on to have some analytical conversation about linguistics or etymology, which would surely have killed the attraction – merely mentioning it briefly was enough). Banged her on the second date. Can that be attributed solely to knowing a foreign language? Of course not, but there’s no doubt that it helped my cause.
Another example is a Colombian waitress who was extremely cold towards me but suddenly became chatty when she saw me studying Spanish in the café one day. Prior to that she had no interest whatsoever in engaging with me, but knowing her language suddenly made her amicable.
Being a law student has generated way more interest than being a science student ever did, and I’m convinced it has gotten me dates (and no, I don’t talk to girls about the concept of mens rea vs actus reus). Likewise with studying at a prestigious university.
Why do I mention all this? They’re examples of DHVs which have I have witnessed generate female interest. It has little to do with pure game. Why was being a law student attractive? The law profession is associated with high status. The same reason why men wear suits in tinder profiles – not to have some conversation about their tailors or fashion, but because suits indicate status. Why has knowing languages helped me (with foreign girls I should add; Australian girls couldn’t care less)? Perhaps because most Australians are proud, monolingual ignoramuses and being even slightly capable in this area is a novelty and a DHV.
Let me again indicate that I don’t consider a DHV to be a panacea, silver bullet or anything of that kind, or to diminish the value of game. Nor do I think that a DHV to one girl will have the same effect on all. But in general they do pique a girl’s interest, giving the opportunity to game her, in the same way that good looks make things easier. They create a spark of attraction (which will fizzle out rapidly without game to sustain it). And they can be conveyed via tinder photos.
Not to say that photos of skydiving or hiking are amazing DHVs, I just used those examples because they are frequently mentioned and I was curious as to whether anyone had had any success with them.

Post: #5794

(01-25-2017 08:04 PM)StackGsMan Wrote:  Also, I in no way think of courage when I think of people jumping out of planes. At best I think they are adventurous, and at worst I think they are outright stupid. No girl, save those that are obsessed with skydiving themselves, thinks to herself about a guy skydiving and gets wet because he's "courageous".

I agree with you on that. Personally I couldn't care less if someone has gone skydiving. I misspoke; 'adventurous' or 'gutsy' would be better words to use than 'courageous' if trying to describe the practitioners of that hobby in a positive light.

Post: #5795

(01-25-2017 07:16 PM)Ouroboros Wrote:  

(01-25-2017 06:59 PM)StackGsMan Wrote:  "Activity" type photos are a waste of time IMO. No girl is going to go, wow! That guy went skydiving, I want his cock. The only benefit they have is if it is some activity that the girl is really passionate about.

The general wisdom that I've been given in this thread is that taking quality professional photos that accentuate your looks is the way to go.

One of the key take-home messages I've got from reading the forum and Roosh's work is that female to male attraction is more complicated than the converse (which is almost entirely based on looks). This has been borne out in real life observations and experience.
'Dropping bait' during day game is supposed to be a way of displaying value or 'interestingness', and by extension attractive qualities - tenacity, leadership, etc. The online analogue of this would be displaying the same qualities in pictorial form. Skydiving isn't interesting by itself but it shows courage to jump out a plane; hiking shows that you get out and aren't a bedridden basement dweller.
Granted tinder is a looks based medium so what you've said must still be important, but if the only pictures you have are quasi-modelling pictures that emphasise your looks alone, wouldn't that miss the other attraction points you could be displaying, and even come across as vain?

What do you mean by "dropping bait"?

Post: #5796

(01-26-2017 04:42 AM)Naughty By Nature Wrote:  What do you mean by "dropping bait"?

It's a phrase taken from 'Day Bang', meaning to make a casual reference in conversation to something which displays value (e.g. travelling) to encourage the girl to ask you a personal question.

Post: #5797

(01-26-2017 01:14 AM)Ouroboros Wrote:  

(01-25-2017 08:04 PM)StackGsMan Wrote:  The sexiest thing to a woman is not pure looks, but how you make her FEEL. That translates to the things you say and physically do WHILE IN HER PRESENCE. That is what game is, not your hobbies or interests. In fact, for the most part if you talk about your hobbies and interests early on and she does not share an interest in those things she will either:

1. Humor you because she likes you or
2. Get bored really quick

If you think I'm wrong try talking about skydiving and hiking to several women and try to gauge how well it works for you. The goal in interacting with women is to make them FEEL something inside themselves. Being funny makes them laugh and feel happy, telling a dramatic and sad story makes them cry, etc. Those are real emotions and make them come closer to you.

What would knowing that you skydive or hike make them feel? I'd be willing to bet, nothing.

I don’t disagree with you entirely. I’m not advocating using such photos as a spring board for in-depth conversations about a particular hobby. The point I was trying to make is that photos of you doing certain activities can be used to display qualities that are themselves attractive; i.e. they are a DHV.
Certain posters here seem to think that female attraction is based entirely on emotion. Whilst I respect their opinion, and concede that triggering emotion is a vital and indispensable part of attraction, I can’t share such a reductionist view. It just doesn’t accord with my experiences thus far.
For example, I have knowledge of several languages. I have seen a Muslim girl’s eyes light up when I’ve written her name in Arabic and spouted a few sentences (we didn’t go on to have some analytical conversation about linguistics or etymology, which would surely have killed the attraction – merely mentioning it briefly was enough). Banged her on the second date. Can that be attributed solely to knowing a foreign language? Of course not, but there’s no doubt that it helped my cause.
Another example is a Colombian waitress who was extremely cold towards me but suddenly became chatty when she saw me studying Spanish in the café one day. Prior to that she had no interest whatsoever in engaging with me, but knowing her language suddenly made her amicable.
Being a law student has generated way more interest than being a science student ever did, and I’m convinced it has gotten me dates (and no, I don’t talk to girls about the concept of mens rea vs actus reus). Likewise with studying at a prestigious university.
Why do I mention all this? They’re examples of DHVs which have I have witnessed generate female interest. It has little to do with pure game. Why was being a law student attractive? The law profession is associated with high status. The same reason why men wear suits in tinder profiles – not to have some conversation about their tailors or fashion, but because suits indicate status. Why has knowing languages helped me (with foreign girls I should add; Australian girls couldn’t care less)? Perhaps because most Australians are proud, monolingual ignoramuses and being even slightly capable in this area is a novelty and a DHV.
Let me again indicate that I don’t consider a DHV to be a panacea, silver bullet or anything of that kind, or to diminish the value of game. Nor do I think that a DHV to one girl will have the same effect on all. But in general they do pique a girl’s interest, giving the opportunity to game her, in the same way that good looks make things easier. They create a spark of attraction (which will fizzle out rapidly without game to sustain it). And they can be conveyed via tinder photos.
Not to say that photos of skydiving or hiking are amazing DHVs, I just used those examples because they are frequently mentioned and I was curious as to whether anyone had had any success with them.

This is turning away from the topic of this thread, tinder, and turning into a discussion of SMV (sexual market value) vs. game. I am not by any means of the camp that thinks game is 90-100% of the equation. I believe that SMV does matter to a significant degree.

All I am saying is that those ideas you had to somehow "DHV" do not increase your SMV at all, and they were goofy. With tinder the easiest and best way to increase your SMV and get more matches is to look your best and have good pictures. That is all.

Now on to the other points you made. I am currently a law student and have been one at different universities, some of which anyone would also call "prestigious". Being a law student or lawyer is not a DHV at all. In fact, lawyers and politicians are among the most despised of professions around the world. Again, future lawyer here, so it isn't like I am coming at this from the viewpoint of a different profession. The only reason that being an attorney can possibly be a DHV to women, and we are talking about WOMEN here, is if it somehow equates to being wealthy. Become a public interest attorney that drives a 5 year old Honda and see how wet that gets girls.

On to your other point, languages. I agree 100% with you that knowing some or all of a girl's native language can really help move the conversation along and build comfort. That is one of the big reasons why I am currently studying Spanish again after years of avoiding it. I do, however, think that you might be a little off with respect to this being a DHV or what the actual definition of a DHV is.

A DHV is a demonstration of HIGHER value. In other words, you do or say something that makes you appear "cooler" than the girl. Speaking a language that a girl already knows doesn't make you "cooler" by definition because it isn't something more than her. If anything I think all of these points you are making are more useful for the stage of building comfort, which is different than attraction.

On a final note, ever since I added the phrase "Estoy estudiando Espanol" to my tinder profile I have gotten slightly more matches and they have all been from Latinas. So while I don't think it is technically a DHV, it does help attract women.

Post: #5798

I have three pictures on Tinder. I am 7/10, i get ZERO matches. I repeat, ZERO. I am not saying '' few matches,, close to zero..'' , i am saying literally ZERO. Maybe my account flagged by Tinder,, but im sure my phone is working as it should, since fake account i created as a female got 20 matches in 5 minutes. My Tinder acc either flagged as spam or im just ugly. But i think even ugliest people get match, even if it is bot account.

Post: #5799

(01-26-2017 01:42 PM)StackGsMan Wrote:  All I am saying is that those ideas you had to somehow "DHV" do not increase your SMV at all, and they were goofy.

Maybe the skydiving idea. But you honestly think hiking is 'goofy'? How about surfing, travelling, sailing, and all the other things that work in conversation to show that you have a life outside of pursuing girls? I can't see how it wouldn't work in your favour to have pics of those.

(01-26-2017 01:42 PM)StackGsMan Wrote:  Being a law student or lawyer is not a DHV at all. In fact, lawyers and politicians are among the most despised of professions around the world.

I'm not a law student anymore, but I did get more matches when I had it listed on my tinder bio. Yes I know people hate lawyers, but weirdly it still has status associated with it. Most people don't know how bad the job market is and assume law students are going to get rich one day...
It definitely is a DHV for girls from cultures that value status (not so much with Western girls).

(01-26-2017 01:42 PM)StackGsMan Wrote:  I do, however, think that you might be a little off with respect to this being a DHV or what the actual definition of a DHV is.

A DHV is a demonstration of HIGHER value. In other words, you do or say something that makes you appear "cooler" than the girl. Speaking a language that a girl already knows doesn't make you "cooler" by definition because it isn't something more than her. If anything I think all of these points you are making are more useful for the stage of building comfort, which is different than attraction.

On a final note, ever since I added the phrase "Estoy estudiando Espanol" to my tinder profile I have gotten slightly more matches and they have all been from Latinas. So while I don't think it is technically a DHV, it does help attract women.

Let's not derail the thread with a discussion of pua terms (I admit I started the derailment and apologise). Who cares if you're demonstrating 'value' as opposed to 'higher value'. The point is you admit that putting something on your profile that emphasised something outside of looks increased your match rate.
That's essentially why I posed the original question - to see if anyone had improved their matches by showing value (besides their looks) through their pictures.

Post: #5800

(01-26-2017 02:41 PM)Euphoria Wrote:  I have three pictures on Tinder. I am 7/10, i get ZERO matches. I repeat, ZERO. I am not saying '' few matches,, close to zero..'' , i am saying literally ZERO. Maybe my account flagged by Tinder,, but im sure my phone is working as it should, since fake account i created as a female got 20 matches in 5 minutes. My Tinder acc either flagged as spam or im just ugly. But i think even ugliest people get match, even if it is bot account.

Believe it or not the bar is actually set that high right now with tinder in the U.S. All it takes is a few hundred 8+'s, celebrities, models, and athletes in a major city to occupy the interest of thousands of women. Something new and better will come take it's place eventually. I've left it for dead. Some type of instagram like app with a dating spin will replace its popularity I think. Or instagram itself.

I think for average looking guys with game, everything will start to funnel to international game. Which is why I've directed my focus this year instead to getting my finances to the point where I can generate passive income and travel the world and game full time. No point in wasting my time gaming women I have no real attraction for. I'd rather position myself to get access to 7's and 8's with LTR potential abroad a few years from now in cities with favorable ratios rather than devote a lot of time to get ONS with 4's and 5's here and there.

With anything in life, following the herd doesn't do anything but guarantee mediocre at best results.