(06-03-2016 08:25 PM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  

(06-01-2016 12:53 PM)JWLZG Wrote:  I rambled on what forms of creativity did she have going for her, which I used to segue into a kiss...
...which she prompted backed away from, with a semi-jocular reaction along the lines of "Whoa, easy there tiger." (I don't recall what she said verbatim.)

She'd said, either then or earlier, that she wanted to take it easy after having left a 7 year relationship, and that she'd maybe kiss on the second date.

This was a FLAWLESS DATE.
Flag on the play.

This contrasts with what you've written below.

(06-03-2016 08:25 PM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  

(06-01-2016 12:53 PM)JWLZG Wrote:  The topic was soon changed to my guitar, which she asked to have a go at. She was shit at it, predictably, so I guided her on strumming, chords, and scales, progressing through to a blues lick; it became a full-blown 20ish minute lesson. It was a good way to escalate kino.
She teased me once or twice about me getting blue-balled, which I agreed and amplified. I hoped I wasn't coming across as too thirsty.

Now it's getting meta.

What do you mean? She directed our attention to my guitar, which was on the back of my mind anyway, and I thought it rather diplomatic of her to segue away from my failed kiss-close. What I was getting at was that while I was instructing her on technique, she was ribbing me about thinking "Can we just cut through this bullshit and kiss/fuck already." — not inaccurately, of course.

(06-03-2016 08:25 PM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  

(06-01-2016 12:53 PM)JWLZG Wrote:  By then, she felt like smoking my weed, so we walked to the 7-Eleven and bought tobacco, papers, a meat pie and sausage roll. Back home, I grabbed cheese and white wine before we sat on the wall again.

This is a problem.

Maybe the date could have been more sexual throughout.
Did the proper thing by pulling back, during the first rejection.

But here you're rewarding her poor behavior.
The date should have ended before you went to 7/11.

I would've come across as a douche for kicking her out for refusing what I (we?) wanted.

Or come across as a whipped bitch for playing along even after not receiving it.

Am I getting this right WIA??

(06-03-2016 08:25 PM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  

(06-01-2016 12:53 PM)JWLZG Wrote:  Our conversation jumped a bit of everywhere and I think we held our attention mutually. She did check her mobile periodically, which I called her out for. She seemed sorry and said that it was her brother or his boyfriend each time round, messaging . That and the fact that she cut me off while talking a few times at that point made me decide against LTR-ing her up.

LTR should not even be on your brain at this point.

But if you had those thoughts, and basically gave her the grand tour of your place, paid for everything, showed her the town - basically you put yourself in the provider box.

Which means that she can't have meaningless sex with you.

I bought a 6-pack of beer before we met. She paid for the tobacco and pies at 7/11. I generally split the bill on dates, which is the norm here, and which I go even with girls from EE/Asia.

(06-03-2016 08:25 PM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  

(06-01-2016 12:53 PM)JWLZG Wrote:  I took the chance to establish comfort over a number of topics, which I emphasised by high-fiving her a couple of times. This was accentuated by us feeding each other cheese and pie.

That's rapport, not comfort. Rapport doesn't get you laid, Rapport facilitates you getting into topics and emotions that can get you laid.

One of the comfort/rapport topics I mentioned was our commonality in recently leaving an LTR (mine was a white lie). We connected over similar aftermaths.

Comfort, rapport, breaking rapport, attraction. The game is a fucking complex work of art.

(06-03-2016 08:25 PM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  

(06-01-2016 12:53 PM)JWLZG Wrote:  TL;DR — I can't help but wonder what was wrong with my game; was I lacking in verbal escalation? Do some girls absolutely not put out regardless of how airtight your game is?

It was a great *date*, but not necessarily great in terms of game.

If you find yourself having these amazing heartfelt dates, you're actually playing into what she THINKS she wants. What she actually responds to is a guy that makes her want to fuck immediately.

In your mind, it's a same day lay.
In her mind, it's a whirlwind affair. She was swept up in the moment.

N.B. We did not have sex. I wouldn't be beating myself up over that date otherwise, at least not to the same extent.

Sure, there was once a time where I was beta enough to fantasise about romantic Prince Charming-esque dating; rollercoasters, caving, kite-flying and picnics gazing lovingly into each others' eyes. Then I realised I wasn't getting what you said in bold. Am I getting there?

(06-03-2016 08:25 PM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  What you want is sex, and the faster you get it from her, the more fruitful a date like this would be in cementing a budding LTR relationship.

Overall, I'm thinking you were too attentive to her needs. You sort of let her dictate what she wanted, without getting anything from her.

LTR wasn't my intentions with her, maybe friends-with-benefits was. I did want to plant a desire for sex in her ind though.

(06-03-2016 08:25 PM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  I didn't see you purposefully break rapport to see if she'll try to reestablish it. I didn't see much in terms of compliance. And the escalation was very light verbally, and the physical came at obvious points. (so obvious that she could be on guard for them. Ohh, he's gonna move me into the bedroom to look at his paintings, the kiss is coming soon...)

I thought my compliance was all right? She readily agreed to switching venues, especially to my house, joked lightly about it, responded to kino. In my kitchen she sat at right angles and complied when I told her to sit next to me (pre-kiss-attempt).

I agree my verbal escalation still needs work, lots of it. It shows up during night game more so than Tinder/date game. Where should I look to improve it?

As for my physical escalation, maybe you could spot it from a mile off but again, I thought I did what I could (especially at the playground).

I should add that I've applied much of the first-date bang principles from the forum, calibrated to my own style (I hope).

For example, I was using my paintings as bait, something which is mentioned a lot on RVF. I have a few of those examples at my place but the paintings have gotten me laid twice before — though it must be said that one of those already had sex in mind from the get go and another wanted to kiss me by the first venue.

I had believed that art especially was a panty-wetter even if girls aren't alternative, "Oooh he's good-looking, an engineer, in shape and he can paint!!!"

(06-03-2016 08:25 PM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  Now as how to play the second date, it's not clear if you're compelling enough to her in a sexual way that she wants to see you again.

I did have second thoughts about it. I've got mixed ideas on the bolded bit, and again, I'm wondering what I could've could've gone WRT that and what I can do to address that for next time. Was that based on how needy I might've come across?

(06-03-2016 08:25 PM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  But her playing games like "I might kiss you on the 2nd date" - she's not pretty enough to make demands like that. (and i've never seen the bitch)

A lot of us condemn girls putting out on the first date as slutty degenerate behaviour, yet I'm in favour of first-date sex as any other — maybe I'm still young and horny, though more (less beta?) impatient than I'd have been in my early-20s. But her saying "she might kiss on the 2nd date" is playing games — especially if she's not pretty enough. Which is which?

For the record, I'd said earlier that she's a high 7. Facially cuter than my previous Tinder bangs (but not matches), with a slim frame. Looking through her FB, she doesn't appear to have been much prettier in her early twenties.

(06-03-2016 08:25 PM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  You can take that as a challenge, as her flirting, trying to toy with you, and channel it into grudgefucking her. Or you can take this as a loss.

A player would keep the chick in check, but you've already invested a whole lot in this chick. You can't invest anything more, until she does.

WIA

We've made tentative plans to see each other next week, and I had a feeling that it's more likely to happen than previous Tinder dates whose execution I've fucked up.

Maybe I'm just horny after not having gotten laid for a 1.5 months, and because I'm telling myself my game is increasing such that I can afford to measure my dry spells in weeks not months or years?

Regarding her putting out early: for what it's worth, her feelings about were also along the lines of "We've only just met, I can't do this." More seasoned players recall girls saying this after you've fucked them too.
She's admitted to coming across lots of quality options, and wants to just take it easy(?!). A girl doesn't have to be half as pretty as she is to enjoy that abundance. Having come out of an LTR as she has, these options can be pretty overwhelming.

(06-04-2016 12:28 AM)JWLZG Wrote:  

(06-02-2016 04:46 PM)General Stalin Wrote:  

(06-01-2016 12:53 PM)JWLZG Wrote:  Do some girls absolutely not put out regardless of how airtight your game is?

Not all girls will be attracted to you.

Game is not a magic wand that makes all women want to have sex with you. Game is just a way to maximize your results with women who will have sex with you.

Stalin, I don't get it. We matched on Tinder. Wasn't the attraction assumed by then? Or are you getting at something else?

So many guys on RVF talk about how at least in the early days of Tinder, the whole "response -> #-close -> meet -> fuck" process was pretty much guaranteed upon matching.

What I've just written sounds laughable and utterly naïve upon looking back. I know I've had at least 5 dates where the girl hasn't felt it or didn't feel any chemistry despite having met them all on Tinder.

A tinder match means little. You have to understand why it is that girls use tinder, match with guys, go on dates, etc. Some girls are simply in it for the attention and validation of collecting matches and getting hit up. Some girls are just serial daters and like just going out with a new face and getting free dinner/drinks while being amused by having some simp jump through hoops to try to impress them. Girls can be fickle and maybe had a quick knee jerk reaction to one of your pics and thats it.

Maybe when tinder first started out it was hookup heaven but from my understanding it's not as simple as that nowadays.

The real litmus test is whether or not your dick ends up inside of her at some point.

Like I said, maybe this girl had a good time with you but she wasn't turned on. By your description, her being some alternative hippy sort of chick, maybe she likes being dominated and would have put out if you were more macho and sexual... or maybe it would have scared the cat. You can't know for sure which is why it's best not to get hung up on one date with one girl. Here is where we reach a crossroads of what your expectations are with game and what you're willing to do to achieve them.

Some guys will mold themselves to what a girl wants so they can bang as many women as possible. Some guys will just be who they feel like being and if a girl is not feeling i then too bad.

As far as the breakdown of your date - from your own telling it sounds like a solid date and it sounds like you had fun which I personally think is very important; bang or no bang. It's likely you weren't sexual enough with her to get her 'gina tingling, and too much comfort and supplying weed drinks food etc. maybe put you a sort of "nice guy"/provider category and not a Chad McFucksonthefirstdate category. Then again, like I said, maybe this girl was just fickle and/or not fully feeling your vibe.

To bring it back around: not all girlls will be into you, even if they may find you physically attractive at first. Women are not as visual as men when it comes to mate selection. Good looking guys can blow themselves out with piss poor game (failing at "don't fuck up" game), while any man would definitely fuck with a hot bitch no matter how unpleasant she is.

(06-03-2016 04:23 PM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  Funny how a change in your inner game can have so much effect on your outer game and results.

Makes me wonder about the doom and gloom gurus out there.

WIA

Preach on brother. Already got texts earlier today from an 18-yr Azn hottie and a young college Latina I had drinks with last week, fooled around but dnb.

I'll tell them I'm free tomorrow.

Was wearing a muscle/tank shirt last night at the championship lacrosse game. Buddy behind me (sitting with 2 other guys and 2 girls) spilled beer on me after the first or second goal can't remember. He apologized, shit happens, let it slide, later in the game he has nachos and dumped them under his seat after he was finished, of course he's a fucking idiot and spilled on me again.

I'm normally very calm and collected but could feel anger surging through me. I got up, turned around, yelled at him and gave him the finger poke right in the chest and said "if anything else happens I'm going to slap the fuck out of you and you're friends in front of your girlfriends"

He threatened to call security.

'Go ahead', I said.

"I'm not scared of you", he says.

I poked him the chest again and said, " thats what scared people say".

The look of horror on this punks face was priceless, him and his buddy got up and left to jerk each other off or whatever they were doing. 5 minutes later, tap on the shoulder, the girls with him, bought me a beer, gave me their number, met up later with them that night, DNB, but moreso because of other reasons. Should've pushed for 3 some.

I'm not a huge proponent of violence to solve issues like this, mainly because of legalities, but the major reason I didn't slap the shit out of this guy was because of a dad and his two kids sitting only two spots down from them. Sometimes a guys gotta do what a guys gotta do.

(06-04-2016 12:28 AM)JWLZG Wrote:  Sorry WIA, you're speaking in semantics I think but a lot of that information is relevant to me. Are you referring how most guys short-change themselves in the efforts they take to approach?

Guys not in the game have a few bad experiences early on, and never really approach chicks. In our culture at least. Other places, the walls aren't up as much.

I don't think dating sites are helping in that regard.

New players spend most of their time shaking off those old mindsets before they start to see results and realize the whole thing is not as complicated or scary as they thought.

Losing approach anxiety is a gift and a curse
- a gift in that you'll never be lonely again.
- a curse in that you don't value female company as much.

WIA

(06-04-2016 01:59 AM)JWLZG Wrote:  

(06-03-2016 08:25 PM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  

(06-01-2016 12:53 PM)JWLZG Wrote:  I rambled on what forms of creativity did she have going for her, which I used to segue into a kiss...
...which she prompted backed away from, with a semi-jocular reaction along the lines of "Whoa, easy there tiger." (I don't recall what she said verbatim.)

She'd said, either then or earlier, that she wanted to take it easy after having left a 7 year relationship, and that she'd maybe kiss on the second date.

This was a FLAWLESS DATE.
Flag on the play.

This contrasts with what you've written below.

In terms of the overall architecture, you did all the big moves.
- Showed her a good time
- Traveled (for time distortion)
- Got her back to your place (isolation @ a sex location)

(06-03-2016 08:25 PM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  

(06-01-2016 12:53 PM)JWLZG Wrote:  The topic was soon changed to my guitar, which she asked to have a go at. She was shit at it, predictably, so I guided her on strumming, chords, and scales, progressing through to a blues lick; it became a full-blown 20ish minute lesson. It was a good way to escalate kino.
She teased me once or twice about me getting blue-balled, which I agreed and amplified. I hoped I wasn't coming across as too thirsty.

Now it's getting meta.

What do you mean? She directed our attention to my guitar, which was on the back of my mind anyway, and I thought it rather diplomatic of her to segue away from my failed kiss-close. What I was getting at was that while I was instructing her on technique, she was ribbing me about thinking "Can we just cut through this bullshit and kiss/fuck already." — not inaccurately, of course.
[/quote]

The bold part. Commenting on the date while the date is happening I've never found to be good.

Here, she's taunting you, playing with you.

At the sub-communication level, and maybe her subconscious mind - this is a shit test.

In a situation like this, you break rapport.

Change the topic, stay "handsy", but reduce the sub-communication level.

Basically, you need to find out if whether or not she's going to move towards you, if you move away.

If she's not doing that (and it's clear that she's not)...you're too far down the pike to go back into attraction.

The game is 3 pieces

- attraction - Is she sexually attracted to you (Yes)
- comfort (Is she comfortable with you touching her, is she comfortable touching you) - in this case NO.
- seduction - Closing a chick.

The date *should* have built comfort.

Which is why your initial question was so interesting.

At the bird's eye level, there's not much I'd change in what you did. This looks like one of my dates to be honest.

However, either showing her how you live triggered her into

"he's a possible Boyfriend...but I just got out of a relationship...he's not a guy that I can just fuck....I have to play it cool....I don't want to get hurt again..."

I see a ton of rapport.
I see kino.
I see you sexually escalating, but not being all butt hurt when you don't get what you want.

TIGHT GAME for the most part.

I just don't know about the sub-communications between the two of you.

It's my guess that even though she likes you, could see herself with you, living it up in that nice neighborhood, smoking J's and eating meat pies...- she has learned that she needs to hold back sexually with a guy like that.

That's the case in America more often than not.

(06-03-2016 08:25 PM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  

(06-01-2016 12:53 PM)JWLZG Wrote:  By then, she felt like smoking my weed, so we walked to the 7-Eleven and bought tobacco, papers, a meat pie and sausage roll. Back home, I grabbed cheese and white wine before we sat on the wall again.

This is a problem.

Maybe the date could have been more sexual throughout.
Did the proper thing by pulling back, during the first rejection.

But here you're rewarding her poor behavior.
The date should have ended before you went to 7/11.

I would've come across as a douche for kicking her out for refusing what I (we?) wanted.

Or come across as a whipped bitch for playing along even after not receiving it.

Am I getting this right WIA??
[/quote]

Depends on how you pulled the exit.

When she wanted to go get food and smoke some weed, you needed a plausible excuse to get out of the situation.

The thing is that you already poured a ton of resources into the date, and went back to the place where sex was gonna happen.

Sex didn't happen, but she still wants to be around you.

She needs to feel loss.

Instead you gave her more.

It's a tough thing to do in the moment, but the second she wanted to leave to go do some stuff - that should have been the natural ending point. Even though she wanted you there.

To me, it looks a lot like she was using you. And you didn't get your quid for her pro quo.

Weed smoking bitches are like that in my experience. You're a means to an end, and she'll just play on your desire to get what she wants.

That's a woman in a nutshell, but I swear them black lipped bitches be the worst.

(06-03-2016 08:25 PM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  

(06-01-2016 12:53 PM)JWLZG Wrote:  Our conversation jumped a bit of everywhere and I think we held our attention mutually. She did check her mobile periodically, which I called her out for. She seemed sorry and said that it was her brother or his boyfriend each time round, messaging . That and the fact that she cut me off while talking a few times at that point made me decide against LTR-ing her up.

LTR should not even be on your brain at this point.

But if you had those thoughts, and basically gave her the grand tour of your place, paid for everything, showed her the town - basically you put yourself in the provider box.

Which means that she can't have meaningless sex with you.

I bought a 6-pack of beer before we met. She paid for the tobacco and pies at 7/11. I generally split the bill on dates, which is the norm here, and which I go even with girls from EE/Asia.
[/quote]

Fair enough.

(06-03-2016 08:25 PM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  

(06-01-2016 12:53 PM)JWLZG Wrote:  I took the chance to establish comfort over a number of topics, which I emphasised by high-fiving her a couple of times. This was accentuated by us feeding each other cheese and pie.

That's rapport, not comfort. Rapport doesn't get you laid, Rapport facilitates you getting into topics and emotions that can get you laid.

One of the comfort/rapport topics I mentioned was our commonality in recently leaving an LTR (mine was a white lie). We connected over similar aftermaths.

Comfort, rapport, breaking rapport, attraction. The game is a fucking complex work of art.
[/quote]

Naw, it's fairly simple on a date. It's complicated with groups at a night club.

the broad strokes (the big actions, the time line)
- You take her out.
- You show her the town
- You get her home.

Stroking the broad is what you do during the broad strokes. (The micro moves)
- you flirt
- you touch, you get handsy
- you escalate
- if she doesn't reciprocate, you chill and try again in a few minutes

When a chick leaves the sex location, she's really trying to defuse the situation. That happened to me 2 years ago, and I"ll never forget it.

My absolute favorite plate, one I've been banging off and on for a decade, recently got engaged. I'd been banging her throughout various boyfriends. Sexually, we click very well. (Personality wise, she always seems to irk me. I can only tolerate her so much)

So I'm in town, and I ring her up. We hang out, and I'm like trying to bang her in *their* bed. Something we'd done before, the kink factor.

She sees me, and is like "That look"...then "let's go out for lunch".

Like a dumb ass, I agreed to it.

Of course we get back, and her sub-communications are basically, we're definitely not having sex.

I should have known what was up the second she broke her pattern, THE PATTERN.

Attraction
Comfort
Seduction

It never changes.

I assumed comfort in this situation, and that was a poor assumption on my part.

Here, you didn't get the real comfort you needed to bang.

But it's not clear to me, that doing the date that you did, that the comfort was not there. Not without poking the cat before we got back home.

(06-03-2016 08:25 PM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  

(06-01-2016 12:53 PM)JWLZG Wrote:  TL;DR — I can't help but wonder what was wrong with my game; was I lacking in verbal escalation? Do some girls absolutely not put out regardless of how airtight your game is?

It was a great *date*, but not necessarily great in terms of game.

If you find yourself having these amazing heartfelt dates, you're actually playing into what she THINKS she wants. What she actually responds to is a guy that makes her want to fuck immediately.

In your mind, it's a same day lay.
In her mind, it's a whirlwind affair. She was swept up in the moment.

(06-01-2016 12:53 PM)JWLZG Wrote:  N.B. We did not have sex. I wouldn't be beating myself up over that date otherwise, at least not to the same extent.

Sure, there was once a time where I was beta enough to fantasise about romantic Prince Charming-esque dating; rollercoasters, caving, kite-flying and picnics gazing lovingly into each others' eyes. Then I realised I wasn't getting what you said in bold. Am I getting there?

Totally agreed. Redesigning your interactions will lead to faster and hotter sex. But a harder style will also "scare the cat" so to speak.

You're probably like me. You want to boil the frog. Get things hot when she doesn't realize it, and oopsie we had sex.

(06-01-2016 12:53 PM)JWLZG Wrote:  

(06-03-2016 08:25 PM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  What you want is sex, and the faster you get it from her, the more fruitful a date like this would be in cementing a budding LTR relationship.

Overall, I'm thinking you were too attentive to her needs. You sort of let her dictate what she wanted, without getting anything from her.

LTR wasn't my intentions with her, maybe friends-with-benefits was. I did want to plant a desire for sex in her ind though.

I'm thinking you gotta go with Roosh's thoughts on this somewhat. This may be the last time you see that girl.

If you make a strong sexual impression, but don't actually bang. She's gone.
If you make a strong LTR/BF impression, she'll make you wait on the bang.

So the strategy is to come off as a non-boyfriend material to forestall that mentality, but also try to bang - if and only if - you know you can.

It's a tight rope, on unicycle, while juggling, if you want perfect situations.

(06-03-2016 08:25 PM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  I didn't see you purposefully break rapport to see if she'll try to reestablish it. I didn't see much in terms of compliance. And the escalation was very light verbally, and the physical came at obvious points. (so obvious that she could be on guard for them. Ohh, he's gonna move me into the bedroom to look at his paintings, the kiss is coming soon...)

I thought my compliance was all right? She readily agreed to switching venues, especially to my house, joked lightly about it, responded to kino. In my kitchen she sat at right angles and complied when I told her to sit next to me (pre-kiss-attempt).

I agree my verbal escalation still needs work, lots of it. It shows up during night game more so than Tinder/date game. Where should I look to improve it?

As for my physical escalation, maybe you could spot it from a mile off but again, I thought I did what I could (especially at the playground).

I should add that I've applied much of the first-date bang principles from the forum, calibrated to my own style (I hope).

For example, I was using my paintings as bait, something which is mentioned a lot on RVF. I have a few of those examples at my place but the paintings have gotten me laid twice before — though it must be said that one of those already had sex in mind from the get go and another wanted to kiss me by the first venue.

I had believed that art especially was a panty-wetter even if girls aren't alternative, "Oooh he's good-looking, an engineer, in shape and he can paint!!!"
[/quote]

I can't fault your thought process. Based on the same facts, I'd probably act the same.

(06-01-2016 12:53 PM)JWLZG Wrote:  

(06-03-2016 08:25 PM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  Now as how to play the second date, it's not clear if you're compelling enough to her in a sexual way that she wants to see you again.

I did have second thoughts about it. I've got mixed ideas on the bolded bit, and again, I'm wondering what I could've could've gone WRT that and what I can do to address that for next time. Was that based on how needy I might've come across?

I may sound unoptimistic but two options
- take her to something completely different
or
- if she wants to hang, make her do the work.

Not because you need to "get back at her", but because you need her to invest.

Part of the problem with paying for stuff on dates, for organizing them, for having shit planned out - is that you as the person doing everything become invested in it.

So if you can get her to invest, put her on the spot, be disappointed when her shit falls flat - that creates something in her.

But how do you get a girl to agree to make you dinner?

And a lot of these chicks nowadays don't have places of their own.

(06-01-2016 12:53 PM)JWLZG Wrote:  

(06-03-2016 08:25 PM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  But her playing games like "I might kiss you on the 2nd date" - she's not pretty enough to make demands like that. (and i've never seen the bitch)

A lot of us condemn girls putting out on the first date as slutty degenerate behaviour, yet I'm in favour of first-date sex as any other — maybe I'm still young and horny, though more (less beta?) impatient than I'd have been in my early-20s. But her saying "she might kiss on the 2nd date" is playing games — especially if she's not pretty enough. Which is which?

For the record, I'd said earlier that she's a high 7. Facially cuter than my previous Tinder bangs (but not matches), with a slim frame. Looking through her FB, she doesn't appear to have been much prettier in her early twenties.

She could have been Noemie Lenoir



Would not have made a difference.

(06-01-2016 12:53 PM)JWLZG Wrote:  

(06-03-2016 08:25 PM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  You can take that as a challenge, as her flirting, trying to toy with you, and channel it into grudgefucking her. Or you can take this as a loss.

A player would keep the chick in check, but you've already invested a whole lot in this chick. You can't invest anything more, until she does.

WIA

We've made tentative plans to see each other next week, and I had a feeling that it's more likely to happen than previous Tinder dates whose execution I've fucked up.

Maybe I'm just horny after not having gotten laid for a 1.5 months, and because I'm telling myself my game is increasing such that I can afford to measure my dry spells in weeks not months or years?

Regarding her putting out early: for what it's worth, her feelings about were also along the lines of "We've only just met, I can't do this." More seasoned players recall girls saying this after you've fucked them too.
She's admitted to coming across lots of quality options, and wants to just take it easy(?!). A girl doesn't have to be half as pretty as she is to enjoy that abundance. Having come out of an LTR as she has, these options can be pretty overwhelming.

Again tight rope here.

Last sort of situation where I was with a girl that was iffy.
We went out, I made sure she had fun, then I cut the date short.

She called me in the middle of the night a few days later, but I was already with another chick.

So in terms of tactics, it's not really about leaving her high and dry, but having other chicks in the pipeline.

When you have other chicks in the pipeline, you can actually let 5-6 of these chicks linger on for months before you bang them. You aren't pressed and they can't manipulate you because of that.

Aside from recognizing the signs, and getting better with the flirting/escalation - I would have probably ended up wondering what the fuck just happened. I ran tight game, and this chick is not waking me up in the morning.

good shit otherwise.

WIA

Excellent post game analysis WIA

This ended up being a long write up. I'm on my phone waiting on flight status for a plane to germany so im bored to death.

Anyway, friday I was trying to get a threesome with this chick im banging. Ill call her "my girl."
I tell her to get one of her girls so we can tag team on a bang, she can use a strapon on the girl while I bang both of them. For brevity in this story she finally finds someone willing to get wild.

I drive to the city and pick them up. Her friend is young, tall and thin, average to nice looking. Handful/tiny perky tits. Nice lil tenderoni. Gets in my car and shakes my hand and says nice to meet you. Next thing I know "my girl" had her best friend with her and asks whether her best friend can come. It all happened so fast I don't know how I didn't spot the third wheel next to them. Im speechless so I blurt out "yes she can definately come."
We go to some club that she wanted to go to. I honestly had no logistics planned. This was my mistake really so I kinda shifted the pressure to her. Next thing I know it's 230am and I'm like "we're leaving. " my girl asks me whether her best friend can come with us to the hotel and I'm like ok. This was a mistake. The roomate and the girl we supposed to bang didn't really click well. Different personalities plus the best friend was literally young and dumb. Literally.
We get to the hotel and everyone is hungry including me. 2 go out for food I stay with the skinny one, we order room service and eat. She smokes some weed and starts to drink.
The two come back and me and my girl jump in the tub for a bath. The other two are smoking. We come out the bath and the two are passed out on the bed. My girl and I both get in the bed naked and dim the lights. I start feeling up on the skinny gurl but she's still asleep. Rub her ass, nothing. Finger her vag, nothing. Finger a her ass, still asleep. So I just bang " my girl" and we both pass out.
Morning comes and I'm like we gotta go need to check out. Its like 1130am. I leave my bag behind and we leave the building I talk to concierge about late checkout. They extend my checkout and we go for food.

For some strange reason the girl I was banging wants to go for a walk and I'm against it I say I need to move the car plus go to the hotel to pick up my bag. Skinny girl wants to come with me so I tell skinny gurl let's roll, I tell my girl we'll meet up in an hour they can go for a walk and window shop im just not into that.

We get to the hotel skinny gurl rolls a joint and starts to smoke. She's sleepy again I tell her we only have an hour, stay awake. I put a pillow on her thigh and lay on it, then start rubbing her thigh. I move my hand under the dress and rub the ass then slowly work to the vag. No resistance. I stick a finger in, no resistance. Two fingers and its on. She slides her panties to the side now I know it's on as I stick my finger in her ass. I ask her whether she wants her friend here right now ( "my girl") and she says "she doesnt have to be here." I get up to find some rubbers and she keeps her dress on but slides the panties off.
We're banging like rabbits until housekeeping knocks on the door. I yell at them then tell this girl we gotta go. It was really perfect timing I had to bust anyway. She's too good of a bang I couldnt last more than 10 minutes.

We get to the car and im beat, tired, hungry and sexed out. Didnt get the threesome I wanted but got a new bang partner as skinny girl gave me her number and said I owe her new panties.
I made too many mistakes

The good thing is the chick im banging introduced me to a new bang PLUS age said she found another girl who wants to indulge in a wild bang session and will even bring another girl to the party.
My problem now is having the stamina.

WIA, how do you tell between a girl that needs 3-5 dates to get the bang because she is conservative compared to the one JWLZG came across?

It could be easy to confuse the 3-5 dates to bang girl as her just looking for a free feed right?

^ Any girl will put out on the first date if you push her buttons right.

You know it isn't a free ride as long as she lets you escalate further physically every date.

Any date she cuts you off physically or takes a step back from the last date, then she is fucking with you.

(06-04-2016 01:24 AM)kaotic Wrote:  This is where you should start, do you log your dates ? I usually try to on this thread when I can.

I should; I've left about 3 - 4 unlogged for different reasons. Thought I'd be too long-winded in writing them up here, I wasn't feeling it during the date and therefore didn't think it worthwhile putting it up here.

I realised there's stuff you can learn from dates even where you weren't eventually keen/not feeling it.

@Suave

You can't.

Game is being that perfect batch of French Fries. Salt it, season it piping hot, smelling great...She can't usually help herself. She starts with just a taste, but can't help herself. And you're making it super easy for her. You're telling her that it's just another twenty minutes on the treadmill, or better yet, French fries are one of the good carbs.

That's why the date was surprising to me. It's textbook game. All the signs pointed to a first night bang.

The only thing I can think of, is that he didn't dig deep into her hangups prior to the point of no return. It could be something entirely on her end. (Aunt Flo)

From time to time your game can be super tight, but maybe you didn't hit that one switch that she needed.

My mind is coming up with prevention, screening, flirting, post failure and debrief tactics - but nothing that quite solves this puzzle.

WIA

Long winded is how guys get better. The anti scientific and anti intellectual attitudes in modern game forums is the result of that bro-ization of the game.

WIA

THIS IS NOT A DRILL

WEST INDIAN ARCHIE HAS A BLOG

http://www.westindianarchie.com/

(06-06-2016 07:11 AM)redbeard Wrote:  

THIS IS NOT A DRILL

WEST INDIAN ARCHIE HAS A BLOG

http://www.westindianarchie.com/

Its about time

(06-06-2016 07:05 AM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  @Suave

You can't.

Game is being that perfect batch of French Fries. Salt it, season it piping hot, smelling great...She can't usually help herself. She starts with just a taste, but can't help herself. And you're making it super easy for her. You're telling her that it's just another twenty minutes on the treadmill, or better yet, French fries are one of the good carbs.

That's why the date was surprising to me. It's textbook game. All the signs pointed to a first night bang.

The only thing I can think of, is that he didn't dig deep into her hangups prior to the point of no return. It could be something entirely on her end. (Aunt Flo)

From time to time your game can be super tight, but maybe you didn't hit that one switch that she needed.

My mind is coming up with prevention, screening, flirting, post failure and debrief tactics - but nothing that quite solves this puzzle.

WIA

Thanks so much for your last few posts WIA.

There wasn't a whole lot to add about our conversation material. She prattled on about environmentalism and star signs. When she was talking about my neighbourhood aesthetics, she seemed passionate enough for her emotional buttons to have been pushed. Like I said, she acted all excited while we were walking through my suburb. She got even more animated when we walked by a dilapidated old Morris parked a block from my house.

I think I sexualised the date more so than previous ones. Your first reply got me questioning my skills in verbal escalation. I still night game sometimes, and I could apply those traits there. Knowing how to plant in her the desire to want to fuck me immediately; I don't think there's some sexualisation cheat sheet that it currently beyond my comprehension? Dudes in the club that are as dumb as dog shit seem have that routine down pat.

Anyway update on the girl: I texted on Saturday, no response. Called on Sunday, no response. Got a text back this afternoon asking who it was and that I wasn't in her contacts. (Must've been BS, we texted all last week) I responded. No response yet. She's gone? Next, methinks.

(06-06-2016 07:43 AM)JWLZG Wrote:  

(06-06-2016 07:05 AM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  @Suave

You can't.

Game is being that perfect batch of French Fries. Salt it, season it piping hot, smelling great...She can't usually help herself. She starts with just a taste, but can't help herself. And you're making it super easy for her. You're telling her that it's just another twenty minutes on the treadmill, or better yet, French fries are one of the good carbs.

That's why the date was surprising to me. It's textbook game. All the signs pointed to a first night bang.

The only thing I can think of, is that he didn't dig deep into her hangups prior to the point of no return. It could be something entirely on her end. (Aunt Flo)

From time to time your game can be super tight, but maybe you didn't hit that one switch that she needed.

My mind is coming up with prevention, screening, flirting, post failure and debrief tactics - but nothing that quite solves this puzzle.

WIA

Thanks so much for your last few posts WIA.



I think I sexualised the date more so than previous ones. Your first reply got me questioning my skills in verbal escalation. I still night game sometimes, and I could apply those traits there. Knowing how to plant in her the desire to want to fuck me immediately; I don't think there's some sexualisation cheat sheet that it currently beyond my comprehension? Dudes in the club that are as dumb as dog shit seem have that routine down pat.

New details!

By the way you describe the conversation
- you weren't into what she was saying
- you let her stay on non fruitful topics

Not very player. Too much slack in your second to second game, even though your date architecture is on point.

I would have explored why she felt so PASSIONATE about those things.

Now we're getting into the nitty gritty of sub communication.

A lot of girls live in a movie. Life is all art and poetry.

So if she was going on about star signs (astrology right?)

Break out your phone and look up your compatibility right then and there. Especially if you're walking somewhere.

- stopping will break her routine, her pattern, her expectation. That's useful because you do not want her to fall into a groove. I'm betting this is exactly how she treated the ex.

- you're taking her bullshit seriously. She suspects it's some bullshit, but like most things she'll never admit that.

- most guys will just let a chick prattle on. They allow it for lots of reasons. You can't allow that

"So stargazer, I'm an Aries and you're a Libra according to this...

We weren't meant to be together (introduce doubt on your part, let her win you back)

Or

We are destined to be great lovers, but I'm not sure about that.

The words are the top level communication, but the tone, body language etc are the sub communications.

Whatever direction you want to go. She's giving you a lot of raw material to work with. At least for me, because it's important for me to dig into what makes a particular girl tick.

Why you didn't bang is starting to become more clear.

I want a chick to not be sure if I'm into them. But I want them to be into me.

Something subtle like "that's what you're into?" With an air of disbelief or judgment.

This is on top of the jokes, good vibes, and other stuff. Full menu of emotions that you can stir up in a chick.

WIA

Today on such sunny day I decided to take a walk and approach some girls. I am new to the game, but already made some approches. But today I fooled myself. I couldn´t find any girl for long time and then headed to park. I´ve seen a blonde lying on the ground and reading some book. There were some people around and I still can´t get over it. So I sat and bench and waited, in a while those people went away. Then she stopped reading, sat and looked around, mostly in my direction (I was 50 m away). So I started heading her way just across the grass and she lied on the ground and probably closed her eyes (first obstacle). When I closed her, I noticed she has earpieces (second obstacle). My mind betrayed me and I just passed her and couldn´t do anything.
Big mistake, I feel totaly like out of the game, I couldn´t talk to any girl after this. But at least, I can feel it´s worse to do not approach, than to approach without success.

Pipelining on Bumble for an upcoming trip to Toronto and I'm surprisingly much better than in Montreal in terms of quality and quantity. It'll be a shitshow once I get there from what I can read though.

Probably told this one before.

One of the homies dated two girls, the second one he married. (They're still married, a rare blue pill marriage that works)

Girl #1 - Archie, she was so difficult, so demanding, and for what?

Girl #2- I suggested we go to a restaurant..And she had a Groupon. Archie, I knew she was for me

The thing about girl #2 was not that she was cheap, or that they were both cheap/similar mindset - but she wanted to save HIM money at her own expense.

Self sacrifice, willingness to look at the couple, not about having a trophy.

WIA

WIA, in this post about your long time plate

My absolute favorite plate, one I've been banging off and on for a decade, recently got engaged. I'd been banging her throughout various boyfriends. Sexually, we click very well. (Personality wise, she always seems to irk me. I can only tolerate her so much)

So I'm in town, and I ring her up. We hang out, and I'm like trying to bang her in *their* bed. Something we'd done before, the kink factor.

She sees me, and is like "That look"...then "let's go out for lunch".

Like a dumb ass, I agreed to it

.....
Assuming you could go back and get a re-do, would the right move have been to simply plow through her resistance (the lunch invite) right on the spot (when you got the look)? Or was she in need of a little more comfort before you went for the bang? Obviously lunch was a mistake, but what would have been the right way to play it out?

@Honan

What a clusterfuck. I would have made the same mistake.

The way to handle future dealings with long time and sporadic plates is to
- See where they are
- start at stage 1
- run proper game like you've never banged
- that includes pushing her away and getting her to invest

Then I'd want to turn her on, but not show my hand.

If a chick knows you want sex, it's a 50/50 but she has choice. If she wants you, because you turned her on, and you weren't pressed, the ball shifts to your court. As long as you keep the communication lines open she can invite you over.

I think if I would have played it much cooler and didn't expect a bang, and then ran proper game on top of that I could have hit it.

Can you have one itis for a plate? Lol

It's one thing to see a girl and know she sucks a lot of dick. You just can't see if she does it well.

WIA

That makes a lot of sense WIA. A while back I lost a long time plate, my favorite, whom id been seeing for over a year.

She got up and moved to the big city for school and career reasons for several months.

When she was visiting my area again she hit me up to chill. I mistakenly assumed she was still at the same comfort/attraction levels as before.

I didnt take into account all the new guys, new experience and strange dick she must have taken in the interim time she was in the big town. I kinda just escalated and pushed for the bang as usual, without doing any re-gaming.

Needless to say it blew up in my face, she ceased being a plate and I never saw her again.



Charge it to the game.

The game meta lesson is that I always learn more from my failure than success.

But through the collective, hopefully we can pass our own failures on to others.

WIA