(05-13-2016 12:00 PM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  

(05-13-2016 11:00 AM)spygoat Wrote:  I think as men we don't like the shit tests we are forced to encounter - manufactured drama, putting your foot down, controlling your frame - whatever you want to call it, is essentially all the same thing.

I love it during the pick up phase.

Anytime a chick takes the time to test you, that's an opportunity to get closer to the bang. Cause making her feel like a fool for testing you gets her wet. This dude is the real deal.

The problem with testing during the relationship is that there is no reward for passing it. She gets what she wants, either she nags you into doing something you do not want to do, or she gets the drama she craves.

What is the man's reward?

Well the reward is peace, but I can have peace on my own.

There's basically a glitch in the feedback loop in a relationship that you don't have in a one night stand/bang all weekend situation.

Took me a minute to figure that out. I know some cats think about meeting their perfect chick from Senegal, banging her out, putting her on the team....but she doesn't stay docile. And after you bang her out a few times, chances are low that the sex is gonna get better.

So a chick has to have value that she can add to the situation, aside from her looks and sex.

So when she tests, nags, get mopey - and the man has to step in and get her head on straight - he has to gain something from his additional work. Because what she brought to the table is no longer fresh.

WIA

Sorry I should've clarified that I was speaking more towards Germanicos situation and in terms of a LTR or chick you've been seeing for awhile.

I agree with virtually everything you said WIA. I guess I was more speaking to the current reality most men face with women in that the shit-tests will keep coming and really you can get upset about it or you can accept reality for what it is and keep moving forward. Easier said than I done, I'm sure we all have our own experiences with that. But I guess isn't that what RP is all about?


How does one avoid testing during a relationship? Or is it even attainable in todays world? I guess thats another thought I've been trying to reconcile.

(05-13-2016 12:35 PM)Vaun Wrote:  I think the reward is that by passing she continually has the desire to work for you for the long haul. That through your own self discipline, boundaries and patience over the long term, she keeps her integrity, flexibility, loyalty, sexual desire, etc.

Do I need her to work for me?

Integrity, Flexibility possibly

Loyalty? She's only around me because of how I make her feel.

Sexual desire - sure she still wants to bang the "highest value male" -

But do I still want to bang her?

A chick brings things to the table that *I* don't want, but another man might.

At a certain point, the game becomes a chick doing what she can to keep you around - not the other way. She's looking for ways to make you happy.

I think that's why most game advice on LTR's from PUA/Red Pill Sources is flawed. The fundamental perspective is one of defense.

Keeping her in check
Keeping her loyal
Making her exercise and eat right to be sexy
Dread
Competition anxiety
Withering looks
Withdrawing affection/communication to modify her behavior.

Good chat so far!

WIA

(05-13-2016 08:57 PM)spygoat Wrote:  How does one avoid testing during a relationship? Or is it even attainable in todays world? I guess thats another thought I've been trying to reconcile.

I think you should welcome them to be honest.

She's checking to see if you're still alpha, still the one she should follow.

That's her job.

She's not gonna stop, but the frequency does let up some.

She trusts you.
Then you get into a routine.

What Patrice O'neal was saying, which I come back to often, is that you need to give a chick another way to think about an issue when she comes at you.

I think the next step is actively giving her shoes to fill, a role. (Aside from motherhood, home maker, or wife-dom)

What that role is...? Haha, that's why we have a forum.

WIA

Edited the above down from the original quotes in order to address them both:

(05-12-2016 01:48 PM)Vaun Wrote:  What I think is appropriate is backing off on gifts, compliments, being a mystery on your whereabouts, your intentions, your plans. To generally stop talking and saying so much. Simply just saying no every so often, or barely if ever saying I love you, or saying anything remotely about your feelings toward her. To never lose your self identity or your self esteem. Never setting yourself up to be anything less than the prized sperm she needs to fulfill her destiny. You can back off, and let her come to you. As easy as that sounds, most men completely fail at this. Guilty. But the nuanced and subtle art of push/pull is the balance between a life full of drama, late night sobbing texts and her calling you an asshole every time she drinks.

Well said. My last few mini-LTR (long term plates) and my current LTR I maintain a solid amount of late-responses/no responses, plans that don't include her, not telling her that I'm doing something cool until I'm doing it (or afterwards). I never apologize for this. Same with knowing lots of girls. I will not avoid talking about something another girl was doing around me, I will not hold back on my affection for female friends, etc...

(05-13-2016 12:00 PM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  The problem with testing during the relationship is that there is no reward for passing it. She gets what she wants, either she nags you into doing something you do not want to do, or she gets the drama she craves.

What is the man's reward?

The man's reward is being a man itself. The problem is more that men are not comfortable being men. They are not comfortable with the fact that despite their being best prepared to deal with things that are reasoned, factual, and non-emotional, the world is a place with plenty of the opposite.

The experienced man moves through life parrying the nonsense effortlessly, not allowing his emotions to get the best of him for having to deal with the "bullshit."

(05-13-2016 11:00 AM)spygoat Wrote:  I agree with virtually everything you said WIA. I guess I was more speaking to the current reality most men face with women in that the shit-tests will keep coming and really you can get upset about it or you can accept reality for what it is and keep moving forward. Easier said than I done, I'm sure we all have our own experiences with that. But I guess isn't that what RP is all about?

How does one avoid testing during a relationship? Or is it even attainable in todays world? I guess thats another thought I've been trying to reconcile.

The question is not how someone avoids testing in a relationship but why it bothers you so much that the testing exists. It is a part of woman's nature, it is a part of the world, treat it as such. You don't get emotional when the wind blows a piece of dirt into your eye do you? It is insignificant and natural. Move on.

The woman shit-testing you is merely an opportunity to be a man and walk right past it.

(05-13-2016 10:06 PM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  

(05-13-2016 08:57 PM)spygoat Wrote:  How does one avoid testing during a relationship? Or is it even attainable in todays world? I guess thats another thought I've been trying to reconcile.

I think you should welcome them to be honest.

She's checking to see if you're still alpha, still the one she should follow.

That's her job.

She's not gonna stop, but the frequency does let up some.

She trusts you.
Then you get into a routine.

I agree. As a man you should welcome the small challenges you face as they are simple to deal with.

I'ts been a while since I've posted, and I have had dozens of great lays since. However, this one just kind of annoys me. I match with this girl on tinder and can immediately tell she is nuts. Talks too much and focuses on her "career." We do have a great conversation at the bar, she ends up calling an an uber after about three hours and lives like 20 mins away (metro area). She mentions she had a few glasses of Pinot Noir before she came. Just so happens I picked up a bottle at the liquor store next to the bar beforehand, and invite her back to my place about 200 yards away to continue the party. Get a no thanks cause she has a "long day tomorrow" and she leaves. I am just getting back into game as I have been out for about six months and I can't help but thinking I fucked up somewhere. I believe there was not enough kino taking place. Feedback?

Read every word gentlemen. Ill get back to them as required, perhaps I should open up its own thread. For now my mood has lifted.

These past couple of days I was feeling down, defeated, as I was wrapping my head around the fact that the game will never end. As I see it, my mistake (I really honestly liked this woman, hence the feeling of loss) was letting my guard down and forgetting the two ruling principles:

1- You must never put your trust in a woman. I dont mean it as in "never trust a woman", for I have many good female friends that have my complete confidence, I mean it as placing "your" trust in a woman, your worth, see her as an accomplishment, making her the pivotal point of your future plans. Live your life with her if thats what you want, but never make your life about HER.

2- You must never let your guard down around a woman. Any woman, your woman, sister, mother,co-worker. Shes a child, a creature of Ego. And as with children, you would never say it all, or let them do anything, or let them out of your sight confident that no harm would be done. You keep your head up around children all the time. So must me with women.

However:

I had a date tonight. This chick from Tinder, she contacted me first, told her straight up that I dont do the chat thing, and she gives me her number. Voice messaging back and forth for a couple days and she tells me that she has this office party thing tonight (this was yesterday) and if id like to come with her. Sure thing.

We meet for coffee a block away from the party and a short walk/ride from my place. Shes a little buckthoothed and over 30, but she hides a fantastic body under her clothes. She has her hands all over me. We buy a bottle of wine and go to the party at a rooftop garden. She introduces me (damn it must be great to be the boss at this office, the talent was fine there) we grab a couple drinks and lean down at a secluded spot. Shes telling me she is some engineer at some company and that she does yoga and runs trails every morning. Her legs say shes telling the truth.

She kisses me and we start making out lightly. I put my arm around her and we look at the skyline. Guy on the next building has his blinds open wide and I joke about how fun it must be to let your neighbours watch *everything* that you do. She says she would be turned on knowing that they are. Im liking this one.

They had a fantastic table of cheeses and Iberico ham but I restrained myself as I didnt wanted to be kissing her with a cheesy breath.

We bail and make out heavily on the street. Walk a bit and request an Uber. I ask her gently if she wants to come back to my place. She says not tonight. We make out some more in the backseat and get to my place. Ask her once more, she says she wants to but wouldnt feel comfortable. Thats code for I havnt shaved in weeks or or that shes on the rag. I know I should have pushed harder but I felt fine letting her go.

My mission was accomplished. I had taken my thoughts off from a woman and back on the game.

(05-14-2016 01:07 AM)Sleazy Wrote:  I match with this girl on tinder and can immediately tell she is nuts. Talks too much and focuses on her "career." We do have a great conversation at the bar, she ends up calling an an uber after about three hours and lives like 20 mins away (metro area). She mentions she had a few glasses of Pinot Noir before she came. Just so happens I picked up a bottle at the liquor store next to the bar beforehand, and invite her back to my place about 200 yards away to continue the party. Get a no thanks cause she has a "long day tomorrow" and she leaves. I am just getting back into game as I have been out for about six months and I can't help but thinking I fucked up somewhere. I believe there was not enough kino taking place. Feedback?

As it happens man, there was no flaw in your game. You made the right moves for the right reasons.

Dont overthink it. The flaw was in her. She was the losing variable of that equation. Perhaps she hadnt shaved, perhaps she just had sex last week with some dude and although she wants to she wont put out so she wont "feel slutty". Perhaps shes staying with family and cant justify getting back home at 5 am. Perhaps she was really hammered from all that wine and just was being good at looking sober. Perhaps she pinky swore to herself she wouldnt sleep with you right away because she "actually liked you", or perhaps shes just fucked up.

Dont sweat it. Just keep gaming it and adding up to your options. There will be more women. Ring her up once or twice more just to see if something comes out of that. If not, she wouldnt have made a dent on your game anyways.

(05-13-2016 10:00 PM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  I think that's why most game advice on LTR's from PUA/Red Pill Sources is flawed. The fundamental perspective is one of defense.

Yes, even the more mild work requires constant attention to her "interest level". It is defensive; she is going about her life doing what she is programmed to do as a female, and you are constantly watching and waiting, plotting and scheming a way keep it interesting, and how to keep her liking you. It seems tiring. From experience it is. Is there ever a way its on autopilot? That your responses are automatic and sub conscious, I really dont know. Some of those writers say "read my book 15 times, to really get it." Is that all it takes? Its interesting to understand whether beta tendencies are hard wired, inherent character flaws, or just easily explainable social conditioning. I tend to think its both.

At its core though most of the red pill relationship advice says that the man can be ultimately responsible for the outcome of the relationship. As a believer in self reliance I completely agree with this. That once you pick the right one, through your own behavior you can dictate the quality of a relationship, by mostly just having self control. If you took away one tenant, self control to me would be the number one quality to improve on as man. It is my biggest goat.

(05-13-2016 10:00 PM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  Competition anxiety

I have seen my dad run this on my mom for 45 years. She hates his guts now and makes his life miserable. My mom and dad were dancers when they were young, my mom quit, and my dad kept dancing, and it drives my mom nuts. My dad is 83 and looks 65, so it doesnt help either. Not saying either is right, but played out over decades, you have to consider how much resentment and unresolved anger will affect the quality of your life. If I pick one to wife up, I just want a happy healthy home, not a cold war that lasts a lifetime.

(05-14-2016 03:44 AM)germanico Wrote:  

(05-14-2016 01:07 AM)Sleazy Wrote:  I match with this girl on tinder and can immediately tell she is nuts. Talks too much and focuses on her "career." We do have a great conversation at the bar, she ends up calling an an uber after about three hours and lives like 20 mins away (metro area). She mentions she had a few glasses of Pinot Noir before she came. Just so happens I picked up a bottle at the liquor store next to the bar beforehand, and invite her back to my place about 200 yards away to continue the party. Get a no thanks cause she has a "long day tomorrow" and she leaves. I am just getting back into game as I have been out for about six months and I can't help but thinking I fucked up somewhere. I believe there was not enough kino taking place. Feedback?

As it happens man, there was no flaw in your game. You made the right moves for the right reasons.

Dont overthink it. The flaw was in her. She was the losing variable of that equation. Perhaps she hadnt shaved, perhaps she just had sex last week with some dude and although she wants to she wont put out so she wont "feel slutty". Perhaps shes staying with family and cant justify getting back home at 5 am. Perhaps she was really hammered from all that wine and just was being good at looking sober. Perhaps she pinky swore to herself she wouldnt sleep with you right away because she "actually liked you", or perhaps shes just fucked up.

Dont sweat it. Just keep gaming it and adding up to your options. There will be more women. Ring her up once or twice more just to see if something comes out of that. If not, she wouldnt have made a dent on your game anyways.

That's what I figured, I guess I just needed to hear it from someone else. Might shoot her a text next week or something.

Last Saturday I had a first date with the first 18 y/o I have ever been with. Belly-dancer, beautiful face, slim body with killer ass (from online). Drinks at an upscale place downtown. After comfort and elegantly establishing the frame that women and men are meant to fuck, I stole a kiss from the girl, then made out. She loved it. Two hours later we are fucking at my place. She is an incredible lay.

#TeamBlitzkrieg

And two days ago, my other plate who ghosted two weeks ago calls me out of the blue. I don't pick it up. She calls again later, I pick it up. She claims that her phone fell into the water (aha). I made vague plans to see her at night on Wednesday. She sucks dick like a champ.

Now tomorrow I will take the bellydancer to my favourite restaurant, so she knows I am serious about her (staying in my harem).

May has been a hell of a month.

(05-14-2016 01:07 AM)Sleazy Wrote:  I'ts been a while since I've posted, and I have had dozens of great lays since. However, this one just kind of annoys me. I match with this girl on tinder and can immediately tell she is nuts. Talks too much and focuses on her "career." We do have a great conversation at the bar, she ends up calling an an uber after about three hours and lives like 20 mins away (metro area).

You went with a low energy date.
A bar date puts the focus is on talking, and alcohol loosens the tongue.
Women in general talk more than men, but in this case she talked much more than you. Seems like that is part of who she is (hence the nutso read on your part)

She was unconsciously testing your dominance, and you failed.

2 ways to get the lay - You basically need to put her in her place and assert your dominance.

1) Amp up your personality and beat her at her own game. You basically need to out socialize her.

2) Escape that environment and push her out of the talking comfort zone.

Something physical, singing, dancing, whatever. Pool, Darts.
Something where
a) you don't have to concentrate on what she says,
b) she can't depend on you giving her full attention - so she has to work for it..and clearly talking is not doing it.

A "drinks" date (coffee or alcohol) plays to a woman's strength.
I could take a chick to a bar/cafe and then do some "head work", but why put myself at a disadvantage?

Even if she insists on a bar/cafe, you have to throw in a walk or a second bar.

WIA

(05-14-2016 07:19 AM)Vaun Wrote:  Is there ever a way its on autopilot? That your responses are automatic and sub conscious, I really dont know. Some of those writers say "read my book 15 times, to really get it." Is that all it takes? Its interesting to understand whether beta tendencies are hard wired, inherent character flaws, or just easily explainable social conditioning. I tend to think its both.

1) Beta isn't hard wired
2) Do this enough and it's like riding a bike. You shut things down before they start by knowing how she operates. Giving her things to do, and giving yourself new challenges are the issue

(05-14-2016 07:19 AM)Vaun Wrote:  At its core though most of the red pill relationship advice says that the man can be ultimately responsible for the outcome of the relationship. As a believer in self reliance I completely agree with this. That once you pick the right one, through your own behavior you can dictate the quality of a relationship, by mostly just having self control. If you took away one tenant, self control to me would be the number one quality to improve on as man. It is my biggest goat.

I disagree with the idea that the relationship is on the man's shoulders.
And it circles back to the "I keep her in check and all she does is stick around" problem of relationship management. I keep working for this thing, but the reward is fleeting/ephemeral/intangible.

I think that's a general problem with red pill thinking.

The pua style of relationship maintenance is remaining the most high value man in her eyes. Value - in terms of pua - is how she feels about, not how the rest of the world feels about you.

This is why chicks leave good family men and business men for starving artists, poets, and bad boys. The objective value that Red Pill/Manosphere/Society thinks is important is not important to the inner emotional world of the chick.

It definitely takes two to tango, and chicks have crazy harebrained ideas about stuff all the time.

WIA

(05-14-2016 06:39 PM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  

(05-14-2016 01:07 AM)Sleazy Wrote:  I'ts been a while since I've posted, and I have had dozens of great lays since. However, this one just kind of annoys me. I match with this girl on tinder and can immediately tell she is nuts. Talks too much and focuses on her "career." We do have a great conversation at the bar, she ends up calling an an uber after about three hours and lives like 20 mins away (metro area).

You went with a low energy date.
A bar date puts the focus is on talking, and alcohol loosens the tongue.
Women in general talk more than men, but in this case she talked much more than you. Seems like that is part of who she is (hence the nutso read on your part)

She was unconsciously testing your dominance, and you failed.

2 ways to get the lay - You basically need to put her in her place and assert your dominance.

1) Amp up your personality and beat her at her own game. You basically need to out socialize her.

2) Escape that environment and push her out of the talking comfort zone.

Something physical, singing, dancing, whatever. Pool, Darts.
Something where
a) you don't have to concentrate on what she says,
b) she can't depend on you giving her full attention - so she has to work for it..and clearly talking is not doing it.

A "drinks" date (coffee or alcohol) plays to a woman's strength.
I could take a chick to a bar/cafe and then do some "head work", but why put myself at a disadvantage?

Even if she insists on a bar/cafe, you have to throw in a walk or a second bar.

WIA

We were talking about the same in an attempt to out socialize her, but the thought of taking her out of her comfort zone with a pool game or something never even crossed my mind. Definitely something to use in the future with girls like that. I am a little rusty here but should be in the correct state of mind soon so I appreciate the feedback.

Have a date lined up with an Romanian girl and an old plate from college's roommate. Should be interesting.

Been hitting the town with Linux a bunch lately. Getting shitty on whiskey, dancing with cute girls, general good times.

We both wound up at my place the other night with a couple of Mexican girls. I pulled out the spare mattress for him and his date in my living room, and I took mine up to my bedroom.

We were all tired and ready to lay down and fuck, but his date was a pistol - all energetic and talkative at 2:00am.

I go up to my room and fuck my girl 3 ways to Sunday. Get up to take a piss after and hear moaning from downstairs.



I pass out. Wake up and 8:00am and everyone is gone. My mattress is even put away and blankets folded and stacked on pillows on my couch. What a guy and a fun night.

(05-14-2016 06:47 PM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  I disagree with the idea that the relationship is on the man's shoulders.
And it circles back to the "I keep her in check and all she does is stick around" problem of relationship management. I keep working for this thing, but the reward is fleeting/ephemeral/intangible.

I think that's a general problem with red pill thinking.

I see what you are saying, but its from the perspective that the majority of men today act like bitches when they go into relationships. Thats probably why most of these books and articles are written they way they are. From the viewpoint that most men, mostly screw it up, I think its a good start.

Men though are extremely emotional when it comes to relationships. Much more so at times than women. I think thats the norm and not the exception, despite what women say. Self control and course correction, i.e. backbone & boundaries, are the only options.

(05-15-2016 02:16 PM)General Stalin Wrote:  Been hitting the town with Linux a bunch lately. Getting shitty on whiskey, dancing with cute girls, general good times.

We both wound up at my place the other night with a couple of Mexican girls. I pulled out the spare mattress for him and his date in my living room, and I took mine up to my bedroom.

We were all tired and ready to lay down and fuck, but his date was a pistol - all energetic and talkative at 2:00am.

I go up to my room and fuck my girl 3 ways to Sunday. Get up to take a piss after and hear moaning from downstairs.



I pass out. Wake up and 8:00am and everyone is gone. My mattress is even put away and blankets folded and stacked on pillows on my couch. What a guy and a fun night.

What happened to Linux? He doesn't post much lately.

(05-15-2016 04:58 PM)Vaun Wrote:  

(05-14-2016 06:47 PM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  I disagree with the idea that the relationship is on the man's shoulders.
And it circles back to the "I keep her in check and all she does is stick around" problem of relationship management. I keep working for this thing, but the reward is fleeting/ephemeral/intangible.

I think that's a general problem with red pill thinking.

I see what you are saying, but its from the perspective that the majority of men today act like bitches when they go into relationships. Thats probably why most of these books and articles are written they way they are. From the viewpoint that most men, mostly screw it up, I think its a good start.

Men though are extremely emotional when it comes to relationships. Much more so at times than women. I think thats the norm and not the exception, despite what women say. Self control and course correction, i.e. backbone & boundaries, are the only options.

Indeed!

Part of the socialization of boys is the suppression of emotion.
But what we see in real life is that guys are not very good at that, and it comes out within the confines of a relationship.

What's worse is that the women that these men care for actively punish men for showing emotion. It could be obvious like calling him a bitch. But more insidious is how they start tiptoeing around and not bringing things up because it will make he man upset.

It is very lonely and isolating to be a man.
I'm sure they've been calling for this since the 70's, but men do need a way to get those things out of their systems so that they can return to a state of being rational.

Bringing this closer to the game...

Most relationships start out with a bang. Spark turns into a roaring fire of lust and sensuality. As the fire cools down, what's left is smoldering sex, but the warmth of affection that a chick brings to you.

Years later the sex is ho hum, the affection is there, but the man has grown dependent on it. If he isn't firmly beta at that point, a woman is pushing him there...but at the same time getting frustrated that he's becoming beta.

I see it all the time.
Looking back on my own relationships, I see it there as well.

I'm not sure how to keep that fire burning and not let the affection take over.

Part of that is finding a chick you really want to bang - but you have to maintain that hunger for HER, in order for a lot of things to work out.

They say a monogamous relationship is only supposed to last until the kids are able to walk and talk. Most relationships i've been in run their course at about the 2-3 year mark. There are only 2 resets after that (marriage and 1st child). But those don't sound appealing as a way to keep a girl around.

That seems like playing the Powerball with your rent money.

Great conversation!

WIA

(05-15-2016 05:42 PM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  I'm not sure how to keep that fire burning and not let the affection take over.

For me its rising to the occasion by not allowing things to creep in that ruin relationships in general. Anger, jealousy, disgusting behavior, not taking care of yourself, getting fat, etc. Just basic shit man. I tend to run hot, so I can say at least a few of these have killed a few for me. I've never had a girl leave me because I was smothering her with love too much.

I have re-read a lot on it recently. A common thread I am seeing is being a challenge; backing off at the right times, and just backing off in general when things good or bad, get too thick. Truly leading and projecting security, positivity and strength. Being mature helps too. Waiting until 35+ gives a man the ability to truly mature.

(05-15-2016 05:42 PM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  They say a monogamous relationship is only supposed to last until the kids are able to walk and talk.

Funny enough thats when I got my divorce. I have no perspective over 8 years. 10,20 or 30 years has to be another animal all together. I would love to see a red pill writer with that level of experience, or one who is not single and has lead a successful long term in tact and happy family. Religious leaders dont count.

(05-15-2016 05:42 PM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  I see it all the time.
Looking back on my own relationships, I see it there as well.

I'm not sure how to keep that fire burning and not let the affection take over.

Part of that is finding a chick you really want to bang - but you have to maintain that hunger for HER, in order for a lot of things to work out.

They say a monogamous relationship is only supposed to last until the kids are able to walk and talk. Most relationships i've been in run their course at about the 2-3 year mark. There are only 2 resets after that (marriage and 1st child). But those don't sound appealing as a way to keep a girl around.

That seems like playing the Powerball with your rent money.

Great conversation!

WIA

This wouldn't at all be a problem if our society didn't reward women for looking for new men no matter what age she is. There was a time when a single childless woman in her 30's was just considered a spinster that nobody wanted and was relegated to the damaged-goods bin.

Now a woman has some sort of incentive to want to leave in her 30's, 40's, 50's if things get too "stale." The bond of family and mutual respect and provision isn't enough to keep people together anymore.

Raising a family is supposed to keep you together for 20-30 years depending on how many kids and how far apart. At that point you're kinda fucking old. Who the hell wants to get a divorce at that point just to live out the rest of your golden years alone? Oh yeah - post-feminist women.

The way people look at long-term relationships today are purely narcissistic which is why they don't work. The point of a man and woman staying together for an extended period of time is to start a family and raise children to adulthood. If there is no plan to do that, then you confuse your biology. A man and woman aren't meant to be together for years and years on end with nothing to do other than co-habitate. The novelty of initial courtship wears off and you're left with a shell of a relationship that was never consummated with children.

(05-13-2016 09:56 AM)Vaun Wrote:  

(05-13-2016 09:09 AM)Gustavus Adolphus Wrote:  I agree with Vaun, though I would be interested in a little more detail on the crying/ argument/ sobbing texts in the right context as I don't want to put words in his mouth.

Basically you need to have the proper boundaries with the right type of girl, in order to fully explore a healthy push/pull balance. Overly needy, dramatic and low self esteem girls make this impossible. A high self esteem girl will allow for the space needed to explore what these boundaries are, and give you the room to experiment with.

Boundaries - that's it. You need to establish what you'll tolerate and what you won't and lay it out for her - and not be afraid to walk away if she doesn't meet your standards.

Someone else posted about living your own life - I can't find the quote in the thread or I'd quote him. This is the other key point. I just got off the phone with an old friend and we were talking about how guys get married and don't maintain their outside relationships, and when you get into your 40s, it's really hard to establish new friendships. My biggest regret about the time I was married is that I didn't make my friends and family enough of a priority. I am so fucking lucky because when I needed them, everybody rallied for me, even when I hadn't necessarily been there for them. Those are real friends. You only get a few in life.

That's the wisdom I've got: set your boundaries and live your life, not hers.

(05-15-2016 05:39 PM)Chowder Head Wrote:  What happened to Linux? He doesn't post much lately.

I haven't talked to him about it but I guarantee that it was the bullshit callout posted in the "Performance Enhancing Drugs" thread. All I'm going to say is that Linux is a solid dude and he doesn't need to qualify himself. I'm sure the dozens of guys he's hung with will say the same thing.

I should hang with the local RFVers more, but honestly my head has not been into game at all. Right now I just couldn't give two shits about women. The one chick I was fucking I barely talk to for the last month. The kids' school year is coming to an end and there's school activities a couple nights a week. There's been drama with the ex in the last week too and I'm dealing with that shit. A friend told me "don't let her problems become your problems" and that's what I'm trying to live by right now.

(05-15-2016 07:53 PM)RockHard Wrote:  There's been drama with the ex in the last week too and I'm dealing with that shit. A friend told me "don't let her problems become your problems" and that's what I'm trying to live by right now.

detach man, thats all that helped me. going out and gaming and getting your head out of the ex drama pays off immensely. If you are putting in the time as a dad and working, you deserve some time off from that bullshit to go live your own life. Always take full advantage of the fact you are divorced.

(05-15-2016 07:53 PM)RockHard Wrote:  

(05-15-2016 05:39 PM)Chowder Head Wrote:  What happened to Linux? He doesn't post much lately.

I haven't talked to him about it but I guarantee that it was the bullshit callout posted in the "Performance Enhancing Drugs" thread. All I'm going to say is that Linux is a solid dude and he doesn't need to qualify himself. I'm sure the dozens of guys he's hung with will say the same thing.

I should hang with the local RFVers more, but honestly my head has not been into game at all. Right now I just couldn't give two shits about women. The one chick I was fucking I barely talk to for the last month. The kids' school year is coming to an end and there's school activities a couple nights a week. There's been drama with the ex in the last week too and I'm dealing with that shit. A friend told me "don't let her problems become your problems" and that's what I'm trying to live by right now.

Yeah man him and I have become pretty friendly the past couple weeks. Real solid guy and fun to roll with. He's leaving for Columbia tomorrow and was really trying to get me to go, but an impromptu trip to South America isn't in the cards this month. I definitely wish I was hitting Cali with him. Couldn't imagine having any reason to ever bad mouth the guy. Happy to call him friend.

As for going out Don't feel the need to go out drink and spend money if you don't want to or your head isn't in it. Get your priorities in order and go from there.

(05-15-2016 05:42 PM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  I'm not sure how to keep that fire burning and not let the affection take over.

Part of that is finding a chick you really want to bang - but you have to maintain that hunger for HER, in order for a lot of things to work out.

I maintain that hunger and keep the fire alive by keeping relationship on my shoulders [idea which you disagree with]. Part of that is proactively taking care of her in a way that she stays attractive to me and introducing new things to stay unpredictable and keep the variety alive. Someone has to do it and it cannot be her.

Has anyone become so hung up on a go-to move that it's fucked up their game?

I was running beach game in Cali last year and I had just seen Crazy Stupid Love, so I started approaching girls like I was fucking Ryan Gosling, using the Dirty Dancing move he does in the movie to Emma Stone as an in to do it to girls all up and down the beach.

Ever since then I've been using it at night outside of clubs and whatnot. Because girls love to do exciting shit (like let strangers lift them into the air), it's been working out as a great opener. But I feel like I'm too reliant on it and I get too lazy to come up with anything else on the spot. My situational awareness during approaches suffer as a result.

(05-16-2016 07:47 PM)Tex Wrote:  Has anyone become so hung up on a go-to move that it's fucked up their game?

I was running beach game in Cali last year and I had just seen Crazy Stupid Love, so I started approaching girls like I was fucking Ryan Gosling, using the Dirty Dancing move he does in the movie to Emma Stone as an in to do it to girls all up and down the beach.

Ever since then I've been using it at night outside of clubs and whatnot. Because girls love to do exciting shit (like let strangers lift them into the air), it's been working out as a great opener. But I feel like I'm too reliant on it and I get too lazy to come up with anything else on the spot. My situational awareness during approaches suffer as a result.

Openers, text game lines, stories..

It's good to have in your toolbox these routines but the Game gets boring when you're too heavily reliant on a move when you could do hundreds of other variations and get the same result.

Create a challenge for yourself to try something different. Especially with openers you don't want to tie yourself down to a fixed opener because there's so many brilliant situational ones you'll do once you get into the habit of it.