(05-12-2016 12:20 PM)Red_Pillage Wrote:  I just moved into a new place. It's totally bare, haven't bought anything in terms of decor yet. However I do have 3 guitars to hang up on the walls. Which is a better place for them in terms of turning bitches on...hanging them in the common area or in my bedroom?

Two in the common area. One in the bedroom.

^ I should have added that I have a room mate also, so it's less likely that I will be spending time with ho's in the common areas.

(05-12-2016 02:12 AM)germanico Wrote:  ...

Sorry to hear this is always a tough one to take.

Did they ask for commitment first? This is a position I am about to place myself in trying to lock down a higher quality woman.

Only thing I have learned is the harder girls have to fight for commitment and the closer I stay on the edge of treating them like crap while learning their quirks and buttons the more attached they become.

If I don't have a mild to strong argument at least once every 2 weeks where I hold my ground and call them out I perceive they build up comfort, yet lose attraction. I need to push hard enough to piss them off on a consistent basis so they know they got a prize they need to work on. To keep a woman in present day attraction wins over comfort every time.

One last thing is if I don't want to cheat I have to do this at minimum. When out with her purposefully check out hotter women to the point I get in trouble with her. Only ones that are clearly hotter to send a message. Dress well and get checked out I need to win the attraction war when out with her.

Don't entertain her boring conversations. Also I need to keep hinting and telling her how she can make herself hotter for my tastes. Need to put her to work.

Otherwise women will end up with guys that are too much of losers to even know what they have and when things get fucked up the woman can rationalize, "oh it's because I picked a loser". Instead of "I fucked this up because I am the real loser".

And I think from past personal experience all those "you're too smart, handsome, great" - all bullshit. They lost attraction, very well because of retarded feelings and instincts. If they are attracted they will do insane things to stay with someone. I have had to get in their heads like I'm possessing them.

(05-12-2016 12:51 PM)Travesty Wrote:  Only thing I have learned is the harder girls have to fight for commitment and the closer I stay on the edge of treating them like crap while learning their quirks and buttons the more attached they become.

I think there is a middle ground. My last LTR was just like this, and she hung on and on to me for years. I banged away on the side, approached everyday, canceled trips on her left and right, used gaslighting, backhanded compliments and was a total dick. But the girl was hooked like crack. Kept coming back. A part of me liked it, a part of me I needed to fix I discovered. But it was unhealthy, and not what I would ever want again in a long term arrangement. I would rather be dumped than treat my girl like that again. The psychological warfare is too much, its too exhausting and to me creates a negative legacy with the world.

What I think is appropriate is backing off on gifts, compliments, being a mystery on your whereabouts, your intentions, your plans. To generally stop talking and saying so much. Simply just saying no every so often, or barely if ever saying I love you, or saying anything remotely about your feelings toward her. To never lose your self identity or your self esteem. Never setting yourself up to be anything less than the prized sperm she needs to fulfill her destiny. You can back off, and let her come to you. As easy as that sounds, most men completely fail at this. Guilty. But the nuanced and subtle art of push/pull is the balance between a life full of drama, late night sobbing texts and her calling you an asshole every time she drinks.

I am looking for positivity, a healthy lifestyle and living that creates devotion from the man & the woman. If I picked one to mate with and marry I truly want to build her up, and handle her in a responsible way.

Continuing to approach and bang other girls once you are in an LTR is only an eventual recipe for disaster. She will eventually divorce rape you, or destroy you one way or another, because deep inside she really hates you. You cant game your way out of that. Why be with someone and fake a relationship if you want to fuck other girls? Thats easy. Think ahead. And I am not speaking from a morality standpoint, but a pragmatic one. Todays courts and society are obviously geared toward women. Accidentally get that supposed LTR preggers and you are looking forward to 20 years of indentured servitude to the state.

^ I never said anything about backhanded compliments or gaslighting. One slight argument every few weeks revs her engine for sex. I never mentioned her crying. In fact I said to direct her on how to turn me on more so my game elevates in her presence naturally.

I agree with saying no, canceling once in awhile, finishing an argument with shut down dominance.

I get guys don't like the dark side. It is necessary guys like to build up a pyschopath scarecrow then try to virtue signal it isn't like that.

It is a benevolent firm hand looking at options here and there to keep her interested.

(05-12-2016 03:14 PM)Travesty Wrote:  It is a benevolent firm hand looking at options here and there to keep her interested.

This.

An old ex told me a few times, that she liked it when I was firm and said "no".

This is direct evidence.

My last one liked the fact I made a decision regardless if it was on her side or not.

Be a "no" man. We need more men like this.

Men who are willing to say no, to fold their cards and walk away, to stand firm and hold onto their ideals.

Reagan style, Peace through Strength.

Hindsight is 20/20, but every time I've given in to some minor b.s. it became major. Set your boundaries, keep them.

I'm mixed on manufacturing drama. It works. I just don't like it.

^ If you push your frame just hard enough for a few days or even during a long set of a quality time she will bring up the drama (minor) to test you. I just let it flow over like it isn't happening then I tell her hey this is how we can both do this together in the future to both be happy. Just leading her.

I am not talking about flirting with a girl in front of her and having her throw a beer in my face. I am just talking about taking her hamster out for a nice swift jog to tire it out and satisfy it not launch it to the moon with a gigantic slingshot.

I know gentlemen. Im not mad at her or at women in general. It was my mistake for letting my guard down.

I really liked this girl, I wanted to relax, to open up and just enjoy her company. I forgot. I allowed myself to forget that one should not expect anything from them. The burden of constant vigilance is the price of game.

That's the part that hurts the most.

You're out in the world slaying dragons, losing friends and battles, surviving more than thriving...
Take off your armor and sword only to realize you have an enemy within the walls of your own castle.

George RR Martin is famous for writing

You can have a woman or a knife, but not both.

He was wrong, you can't have a woman.

WIA

(05-12-2016 03:14 PM)Travesty Wrote:  ^ I never said anything about backhanded compliments or gaslighting. One slight argument every few weeks revs her engine for sex. I never mentioned her crying. In fact I said to direct her on how to turn me on more so my game elevates in her presence naturally.

in my case it was a result of being thoroughly over something without having the balls to engage in full no contact and cutting it off, to the point of unhealthy. If there is a proper balance to strengthen the longevity of anything over 6 months, I have not find the formula yet.

Is the benevolent hand the natural state of man, or an elevated more aware state of mind? Was this handed down by fathers in the past, as sons witnessed male/female interactions between intact parents and families? And now we are pumped a female driven narrative into our minds daily by the media. Were men just not as big of pussies in the past? Or is supplicating and beta behavior the lowest base level emotive response of man toward women, an uneducated reaction men instinctually have that requires awareness and work to overcome. Much like anger, jealousy, binge eating, etc.

Re: Germanico, Travesty, Kaotic discussion...

I agree with Vaun, though I would be interested in a little more detail on the crying/ argument/ sobbing texts in the right context as I don't want to put words in his mouth.

Girls cry. It's about how you handle it at the time, and once you get used to the fact they all have their little meltdowns from time to time, you get better at it. I don't outright say anything negative, but I do not placate the source, it never works like that. Especially if you've done nothing wrong. I had this recently occur, I basically just sat there while she sobbed out her emotions. The next morning she asked, "I can't believe I cried like a little bitch, (laughing) why didn't you just tell me to shut up?! I'll never bring that stuff up again, I'm sorry!"

With regards to the asshole/aloof being overdone, she should feel a lot of joy around you. It's what makes it worth it for her, to be invested, to be truly happy with you. But you still need to reel them in sometimes, everyone else builds her up, builds her up, all day long.

A good way to deal with this is the once a week shiv- different than a cut down, or being mean.

As an example, let's say your girl works in a customer oriented field, retail, bar, or otherwise easy place to get massive daily attention. She might come around and say, "you're so good to me, it makes it really easy to turn away all these guys that hit on me."

To which you can take that bait or reject it.

Always reject. I would say, "It's not easy what I do, but I'm glad you appreciate me. I told you those bowls of ice for dinner would pay off. Look how successful you are becoming. I am happy for you."

She shakes her head, rolls her eyes, hits your shoulder, but take that as it worked. Then back to your regularly scheduled fun.

I'm sure there are plenty of ways to skin the cat, this is just one.

(05-13-2016 09:09 AM)Gustavus Adolphus Wrote:  I agree with Vaun, though I would be interested in a little more detail on the crying/ argument/ sobbing texts in the right context as I don't want to put words in his mouth.

Basically you need to have the proper boundaries with the right type of girl, in order to fully explore a healthy push/pull balance. Overly needy, dramatic and low self esteem girls make this impossible. A high self esteem girl will allow for the space needed to explore what these boundaries are, and give you the room to experiment with.

Two new dates this week. Banged neither.
1) Cute Korean chick with good style. Met her at a party last week and got her number. Very eager to hang but clueless with dating despite being early 30s- Friday night she was asking if she could bring a friend. I said no and she offered Monday - Thursday. Since I don't drink and she apparently doesn't drink much I met her for sushi Monday eve. Good date, good conversation but I think the chick does have some weird issues/hangups. Gave her a ride home and she wouldn't kiss. Then starts spouting a bunch of crap about not being comfortable being touched, I only just met you. The mood was still light and she said I hope you're not offended. I smiled and we hugged it out. Lame.
I'll try and get her back out and give it another couple dates.

2) Asian chick I matched with on Tinder months ago and never ended up meeting with. Turns out we sorta know each other from our neighborhood so we reconnected that way. Had a date a couple weeks ago, she was annoying me and being tomboyish so I said I had to be somewhere and bailed. Fast forward to yesterday I came across her again and we chatted. I hit her up later in the afternoon and she asked if I was around. Invited her to my place to hang with plausible deniability activity. She comes over, we do the activity, then we're sitting on the couch and I commence making out. After a minute she starts LMR and then all this crap starts to fly. She's "sorta seeing someone", she's "not comfortable sleeping with multiple people anymore" (she's 25), what if she has bronchitis, "I have plans later to meet" the other guy, "we can hang out as friends", "I know if I stay here blah blah blah..."

In my head I'm just rolling my fucking eyes. I keep trying to plow through the resistance for another 15-20 minutes but finally she's getting ready leave after the 5th "I really think I should go". She leaves having projected her guilt and bullshit all over me.

Fortunately, my regular chick's squirting gush was all over me on Tuesday night. Hadn't happened before with us. It seemed kind of swishy while she was on top of me on the couch, and when I lifted her up to bring her to the bedroom there was dripping. I looked down to see it was not blood, and then on the faux leather couch a nice puddle.
I put a towel down on the bed and another puddle was created.

Really would like a new bang, but I just seem to be swinging and missing.

I think as men we don't like the shit tests we are forced to encounter - manufactured drama, putting your foot down, controlling your frame - whatever you want to call it, is essentially all the same thing. At its core, I think women crave this feeling/emotion because its something they don't get on the regular. If you were a hot blonde 10, you would be used to getting your way probably almost every time in every situation. Just like Gus said. So while it may take a 'mind shift' or red pill swallow to get over what you might not like having to do, the reality is this is the world we live in. Women are like this, beautiful women who get a lot of attention are even worse. We get upset over having to pass shit tests but really at the same time I think alot of it is their way of screening out the chumps. We screen with our eyes/dicks, they screen with their hearts/minds/hamsters.

A situation I'm in right now - girl is blonde, attractive, smart, playful and you can always tell when that feeling is coming to you in your head. Im definitely a man who battles his own emotions (or did in the past) so trying to be objective is not an easy task, but the more objective I am, the less I put up with her shit and tell her no, the more she wants me, the more I get the feeling of 'like' etc. Like all the gurus on here will say, game never ends, especially with the cream of the crop. You can choose to embrace as we have or you can choose to not care and let the feelings take the wheel. We all know where that road goes. I feel for you Germanico.

Whether we choose to 'like' what we have to do game women is irrelevant. If you want the 1% you have to act like the 1% or be the 1%.

(05-13-2016 08:48 AM)Vaun Wrote:  Is the benevolent hand the natural state of man, or an elevated more aware state of mind? Was this handed down by fathers in the past, as sons witnessed male/female interactions between intact parents and families?

Yes, my father had me when he was in his early 40s. He is back before the hippy free love generation. A 1950s man. I can see his firm hand interaction with my mother and pointing out all the little shit tests and he never lets anything slide. They have been married coming up on 50 years. If she did something with her look he didn't like he tells her right away and how to correct it with a tone of authority.

Some friends would make fun about him to me being so "old school".

Yeah it always comes down to the foundation of your relationship/connection/LTR with this girl

The foundation is made up of 3 things:

-Frame
-Game
-Boundaries

All 3 are important obviously, they help with petty shit tests, let's her know if she fucks up, she'll be gone.

She also can be rewarded from time to time (at your discretion). I've been sparse at rewarding, I only bought my LTR flowers once, clothes a handful of times, and maybe take her with me somewhere.

Now we never had petty arguments, but we did have a handful of serious arguments that left her balling like a little girl, especially when she had a drink or 2. It was always when we got home or were going home.

The last time it happened I made a off the cuff joke of having experience digging in girls purses, heh, she didn't like that one bit and got angry. I told her to knock it off, she took off.

She called me back saying she doesn't know what to do, crying, I tell her to cut that shit off, and go to my house. She apologized the next day, I told her never to do that again or we were done.

Fortunately she wasn't overly needy or attentnion whoring, but that latina sass of her got the best of her sometimes.

She was very protective of me and would occasionally get jealous, she was loyal and loved me to death.


I think generally some men are afraid to swat down shit test because they're afraid it'll explode in their faces.

Almost all the time, the girls are just testing you to see what they can get away with. When they know you can't be fucked with - they realize they're dealing with a steadfast man. That turns them on.

You're the rock that can't be moved, so you're the rock they girls cling to.

(04-24-2016 02:03 AM)Gorgiass Wrote:  Broke up a stretch of duogamy with a new 21yo hippyish cutie earlier. Petite, pretty tight body, DD tits which I put to good use. Wild kinky fuck. What was I thinking sitting this out.

Took her to a late dinner afterwards and were discussing sexual experiences, she said she and her ex used to pick up dudes on Tinder and she like to watch them fuck. Glad I wrapped it up.

How did no one notice this?!! She would watch THEM fuck? I'd be so disgusted by that, I'd let her know in the worst way possible and leave. Fuck that. It would feel nearly as bad as finding out you fucked a tranny.

(05-13-2016 11:00 AM)spygoat Wrote:  I think as men we don't like the shit tests we are forced to encounter - manufactured drama, putting your foot down, controlling your frame - whatever you want to call it, is essentially all the same thing.

I love it during the pick up phase.

Anytime a chick takes the time to test you, that's an opportunity to get closer to the bang. Cause making her feel like a fool for testing you gets her wet. This dude is the real deal.

The problem with testing during the relationship is that there is no reward for passing it. She gets what she wants, either she nags you into doing something you do not want to do, or she gets the drama she craves.

What is the man's reward?

Well the reward is peace, but I can have peace on my own.

There's basically a glitch in the feedback loop in a relationship that you don't have in a one night stand/bang all weekend situation.

Took me a minute to figure that out. I know some cats think about meeting their perfect chick from Senegal, banging her out, putting her on the team....but she doesn't stay docile. And after you bang her out a few times, chances are low that the sex is gonna get better.

So a chick has to have value that she can add to the situation, aside from her looks and sex.

So when she tests, nags, get mopey - and the man has to step in and get her head on straight - he has to gain something from his additional work. Because what she brought to the table is no longer fresh.

WIA

Had a pretty cool date last night which surprised me:

I matched with this 28 year old 7 looking chick on Tinder, got her number, she was fairly sarcastic and picked on my sarcasm.

I gave her a call driving home, this chick CAN TALK. I barely got a word in or had to cut in loudly to interject.

Something about her voice was odd, was is it a speech impediment, accent, or something else ?


We met up last night at my regular bar - she drove 30 minutes to see me.

I'm sitting at the bar and she walks in - she's 5'9 and taller since she has heels on. I haven't seen a date of mine in heels in awhile, usually it's wedges.(Keep in mind I float around a little under 5'9) She's a few inches taller than me.

Skinny and legs for days - dressed cute.


Bartender took for fucking ever, ends up not having 2 drinks she likes, so she settles, I get my regular drink.

We go into the corner of a L shape couch outside, she thinks the place is pretty cool and theirs live music playing, and she takes her sweater off. Overall her body is cute, lack of full sized tits, but whatever.


Immediately her voice stands out, we talk about travel, our backgrounds.

She LOVES bitching about work - she's also social but anti social. She's kind of like me in away. We can't stand idiots and we like our alone time.


Turns out this chick is RUSSIAN and came here when she was 20, she lived in the Florida for awhile and she moved to California last fall.

First a Hungarian experience, now Russian.

I took some of my lessons with the Hungarian date and applied it to the Russian.

-Spoke less, let her do the talking.
-Had actual topics and good discussions.
-Toned down the sarcastic asshole game.
-Became a bit more relate and open.

I close our tab, we bounced to the second venue, walked around this fountain and hungout, we chatted about my background.

I walk into venue 2 with her, I'm about to sit down and I hear "Can't say hi fucker !?" from the table over.

2 guys I know, 1 pretty well, were sitting next to us. I say what's up to them and introduce myself to the other 2 sitting there.

I say this is Russian girl, she waves.

During our conversation about dating, she subtly was trying to flip the script and qual me:

"I've met so many people from Tinder, most are just friends, blah blah blah"

-You're my 3rd date, it's been an odd experience so far, the girls are X (insert neg) blah blah blah

"Usually I like doing things with guys like bowling, minigolfing, whatever - because I'm not good at telling a guy I'm not interested in them so I just hangout and I'll still have fun."

-Immediately call her on it, hey you can leave whenever you want -huge grin-

She laughs and says no she wants to stay.

"Usually I don't go out of a 5 mile radius of my house, but the drive was beautiful so you're lucky"

-I tell her that hey I've late a date in 15 minutes so that breaks us even, she laughs. I nuke that qual with giving the full 15 minute date story.

'Most guys I meet are just friends and there are rare exceptions where I'll meet for a drink, because I can't leave if I'm not feeling it"

-I call her out once again asking if she's hinting at something -with a big smile- she laughs again and says no, she liked our conversation.

"Usually I don't call it a date, you're a rare exception, especially since I'm driving out my comfort zone to meet you"

-Cool

There were a few others I can't remember, but basically I handled it pretty well, during that part, then flipped the script.



We turned to travels, talked about what we want to do later in life, how we want be location independent, but corpo jobs will do for now.

She shit tests me about my facial hair. Which I just laugh at her about and tell her I've done all kinds of things with my facial hair and hair.

(She brought up in text before that I had more facial hair than the last few guys she dated combined, I jokingly pretended to be offended, and she went on the defensive which was funny)

I tell her that a few girls who claimed to of hated it ended up loving it and didn't mind it.

I call her out on her lip piercing scar, calling her a little rebel. Turns out she had her eyebrow pierced before also and had pink streaks in her hair at one point.


We ended the convo about music and music festivals. We connected alot here.

I ask for the tab - I leave it closed but between us to see if she reacted - she didn't. Not a big deal, closed the tab out.

We walked out and a buddy says what's up as we walk in, she tells me that I just know everyone. I laugh and say I'm kind of a big deal.

I'm telling you man have your social circle game on point !


I drove her back to her car, she chats a bit more.

She gives me a hug, holds onto me for a second to long, which was odd.

Immediately I go in for the kiss and she responds in kind, she grabs my arm, her body sighed a little. I think she enjoyed it as much as I did.

Told her to text me when she gets home. She sent me two texts, one that she was in traffic, and that she got home thanking me for the night.


Summary:

Overall using what I learned from the failed Hungarian date helped me alot here with the Russian.

I cant tell she was pretty receptive, but I know she wasn't coming home with me since she has to be up early.

I let her do way more of the talking and let her get comfortable. There's was plenty of agree/amplify going on, along with swatting down quals and shit tests.

Key takeaway was how she's been talked to before on dates which she found annoying:

-What's your accent ?
-Where are you from ?
-How long have you been here?

Basically she hated that line of questioning, I hardly even brought it up.

It sounds like since we had genuine conversation she wasn't on the defensive or annoyed, I was more interested in her, than where she was from.

She's headed vegas this weekend with her prego GF, classy. So we'll see what happens next week.

I have to close this soon since she going to back to Russian/Latvia/Spain for a month in June.

(05-13-2016 12:00 PM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  

(05-13-2016 11:00 AM)spygoat Wrote:  I think as men we don't like the shit tests we are forced to encounter - manufactured drama, putting your foot down, controlling your frame - whatever you want to call it, is essentially all the same thing.

The problem with testing during the relationship is that there is no reward for passing it. She gets what she wants, either she nags you into doing something you do not want to do, or she gets the drama she craves.

What is the man's reward?

WIA

I think the reward is that by passing she continually has the desire to work for you for the long haul. That through your own self discipline, boundaries and patience over the long term, she keeps her integrity, flexibility, loyalty, sexual desire, etc.

(05-13-2016 12:34 PM)kaotic Wrote:  During our conversation about dating, she subtly was trying to flip the script and qual me:

"I've met so many people from Tinder, most are just friends, blah blah blah"

-You're my 3rd date, it's been an odd experience so far, the girls are X (insert neg) blah blah blah

Great stuff Kaotic. I'm liking you remembered the responses you gave her, and put them down in a post.

(05-13-2016 02:11 PM)Jagnum Wrote:  

(05-13-2016 12:34 PM)kaotic Wrote:  During our conversation about dating, she subtly was trying to flip the script and qual me:

"I've met so many people from Tinder, most are just friends, blah blah blah"

-You're my 3rd date, it's been an odd experience so far, the girls are X (insert neg) blah blah blah

Great stuff Kaotic. I'm liking you remembered the responses you gave her, and put them down in a post.

I figure the more details I give, the more it'll reinforce things for other dates and guys on here can take something away from these date logs.

^ kaotic I just have to say all those shit test you face constantly. They are cartoon-like bad. OC chicks man. It is a disease. I am sure Toronto, DC, and Bay Area guys can relate, but damn I'd never marry a chick from down there too many landmines.

The pregnant girlfriend going to Vegas. Those are OC/Inland Empire girls in a nutshell.

(05-13-2016 04:00 PM)Travesty Wrote:  ^ kaotic I just have to say all those shit test you face constantly. They are cartoon-like bad. OC chicks man. It is a disease. I am sure Toronto, DC, and Bay Area guys can relate, but damn I'd never marry a chick from down there too many landmines.

The pregnant girlfriend going to Vegas. Those are OC/Inland Empire girls in a nutshell.

They were definitely shit tests but I highlight them here because other guys might not know what to do in those situations.

Shit tests aren't anything new to me, I'm on auto-pilot and I've always got a smart ass retort back. I've dealt plenty with bitch shields so I'm immunie to it.

OC Chicks are either real chill or real bitchy, it's seems there's no in between.

Yeah seriously, why the fuck are you going to go to vegas with a pregnant woman.

Where the hell is the cuck father to be in all of this. Talk about sad.

The plan is to fuck them, not marry them

Fuck when shit settles down I need to head north to meet up with you.