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Moma and RudeBwoy RoundTable Discussion on Black Man Game Options

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Excelsior 路 2016-02-21 04:56:00 路 #1551
(02-19-2016 03:33 PM)Anabasis to Desta Wrote:  There is something about Nigerian culture that renders not only the men but also the women very slick/game aware. We all know the exploits of Nigerian guys. Forget that! There are Nigerian girls I know who are not that good looking dating hot European guys.

These two rich ,OK looking, Naija bitches from Victoria Island, Lagos i went to school with have locked down top white guys who could have had their pick of bad bitches.

You guys have this very attractive irrational confidence that i have a hard time pin-pointing the source of. Could you elaborate more on that attitude if you know what i mean?

Similar but less intense mentality i see with Caribbean brothers.

On a related note here, you'll see some similarities in the Caribbean mentality because they share the same heritage. Jamaicans, for example, are effectively Ghanaian-Nigerians with British names. A glance at the slave ship records will show that the bulk of the slaves shipped to the island were Igbo, Akan, Yoruba, Fon, Efik, and Moko peoples. Four of those six groups are primarily Nigerian, though recent DNA studies show Jamaicans somewhat more closely resemble the modern residents of the Gold Coast (which we know today as Ghana).

The most common of the groups mentioned above were the Akan and Igbo. Most Jamaican proverbs are Asanta-Akan or Igbo, and Igbo influences are very common in patois.
Moma 路 2016-02-21 07:30:00 路 #1552
(02-21-2016 04:56 AM)Excelsior Wrote:  Similar but less intense mentality i see with Caribbean brothers.


On a related note here, you'll see some similarities in the Caribbean mentality because they share the same heritage. Jamaicans, for example, are effectively Ghanaian-Nigerians with British names. A glance at the slave ship records will show that the bulk of the slaves shipped to the island were Igbo, Akan, Yoruba, Fon, Efik, and Moko peoples. Four of those six groups are primarily Nigerian, though recent DNA studies show Jamaicans somewhat more closely resemble the modern residents of the Gold Coast (which we know today as Ghana).

The most common of the groups mentioned above were the Akan and Igbo. Most Jamaican proverbs are Asanta-Akan or Igbo, and Igbo influences are very common in patois.

This is true. The Igbo word 'unnu' means 'you lot' plural in Jamaican patois. It means EXACTLY the same thing in Igbo.
DjembaDjemba 路 2016-02-21 15:15:00 路 #1553
A little off topic but since we're on the subject of Nigeria:

If Nigeria can at least reach Jamaica's level of development (HDI) by 2025 it would automatically become a quasi superpower.

Nigeria's underdevelopment is evident outside of the swanky suburbs like Victoria Island. The level of grinding rural poverty is incredible. Even Ghana is light years ahead of Nigeria when it comes to development. 3 Hours of electricity per day aren't cutting it. Boko Haram is popular in the North because youth have nothing to do all day, no employment opportunities, no schooling, no nothing, just sitting around bored.

The oil money that makes Nigeria 'supposedly' rich sits in Switzerland, London, Victoria Island, and Abuja - possibly in that order.

Nigeria would've been better if it didn't find an ounce of oil in its land. All it did was environmentally destroy the Niger delta, and the agriculture and manufacturing industries of the North.

Ideally this oil downturn will get the country off the oil, that shit nothing but a curse.

Jamaica is a good model to emulate at least in limited scope, it's far from perfect (with its vast gulf between rich and poor, starkly high murder rates in the working class hood, and complete lack of manufacturing industry), but it's what makes it a good blueprint.

Beautiful tropical scapes and amazing beaches, fishings, diving, and hunting in the south. Incredible and deep multilayered history in the north with ancient cities such as Kano. These are amazing tourist opportunities. Tourists love Africa! Foreign bitches go to Africa to kiss poor villager babies and go on safaris.

With a brush up of the tourism industry, they could see these foreign bitches kissing more dick instead.

The real meat and potatoes of transformation are the nitty gritty stuff that can makes guys like us rich.

I have good Jamaican friends who's close and extended families make a killing in the trades, especially construction (carpentry, electricians, plumbers). The demand for western style housing by westerners and Jamaicans alike is very good business in Jamaica. The boom and demand for western style housing in Nigeria, and west Africa in general is even bigger. There's so much money floating around, but the housing is too often substandard! Houses that would sell for $300,000 in Houston sell for $2,000,000USD in places like Lagos and Port Harcourt. There aren't many construction outfits, and tradesman to keep up with demand thus the sky high prices for good western style housing. There's no shortage of house builders there, but they just don't have the knowhow to build real, quality, western style housing that would pass an inspection code in Canada, America or Britain. Dudes putting up tin shacks next to each other with no plumbing and calling them "suburbs". I strongly believe we can do far better, and make a healthy buck!

Thinking out loud here, but getting a truck, a crew of eager youth, and bringing knowhow from the west to places like West Africa where there's demand but no supply could be a good way to start up a sustainably profitable business.

Costing out the the components such as trucks, construction equipment, labour, materials (wood, siding, window frames, cement, etc), corruption penalty (how much will it cost to pay off such and such), and working it out against the revenues, I'm willing to bet that there'd still be a healthy profit to be made. Even the liability of corruption may not be as bad because the onus would fall on the purchaser of the property.

This is a good time for Nigerians (and non Nigerians alike) who are willing to work and have some trades know-how and business acumen. Maybe even get people who aren't African who know trades well to set up shop there, I know lots of dudes out here in Alberta who're working less due to the slowdown in the oil business. Dudes who know how to build a house from scratch with a team of hard working men.

Just thinking aloud...
Dr. Kahn 路 2016-02-21 15:51:00 路 #1554
There were Nigerians at my school. I must grudging admit, they kick ass. But not all Nigerians are created equal. Igbo and Yoruba are completely different in performance levels when compared to Hausa. I don't know much about Nigeria, but can somebody clarifies why is this the case?

--Dr. Kahn


(02-21-2016 03:15 PM)DjembaDjemba Wrote:  A little off topic but since we're on the subject of Nigeria:

If Nigeria can at least reach Jamaica's level of development (HDI) by 2025 it would automatically become a quasi superpower.

Nigeria's underdevelopment is evident outside of the swanky suburbs like Victoria Island. The level of grinding rural poverty is incredible. Even Ghana is light years ahead of Nigeria when it comes to development. 3 Hours of electricity per day aren't cutting it. Boko Haram is popular in the North because youth have nothing to do all day, no employment opportunities, no schooling, no nothing, just sitting around bored.

The oil money that makes Nigeria 'supposedly' rich sits in Switzerland, London, Victoria Island, and Abuja - possibly in that order.

Nigeria would've been better if it didn't find an ounce of oil in its land. All it did was environmentally destroy the Niger delta, and the agriculture and manufacturing industries of the North.

Ideally this oil downturn will get the country off the oil, that shit nothing but a curse.

Jamaica is a good model to emulate at least in limited scope, it's far from perfect (with its vast gulf between rich and poor, starkly high murder rates in the working class hood, and complete lack of manufacturing industry), but it's what makes it a good blueprint.

Beautiful tropical scapes and amazing beaches, fishings, diving, and hunting in the south. Incredible and deep multilayered history in the north with ancient cities such as Kano. These are amazing tourist opportunities. Tourists love Africa! Foreign bitches go to Africa to kiss poor villager babies and go on safaris.

With a brush up of the tourism industry, they could see these foreign bitches kissing more dick instead.

The real meat and potatoes of transformation are the nitty gritty stuff that can makes guys like us rich.

I have good Jamaican friends who's close and extended families make a killing in the trades, especially construction (carpentry, electricians, plumbers). The demand for western style housing by westerners and Jamaicans alike is very good business in Jamaica. The boom and demand for western style housing in Nigeria, and west Africa in general is even bigger. There's so much money floating around, but the housing is too often substandard! Houses that would sell for $300,000 in Houston sell for $2,000,000USD in places like Lagos and Port Harcourt. There aren't many construction outfits, and tradesman to keep up with demand thus the sky high prices for good western style housing. There's no shortage of house builders there, but they just don't have the knowhow to build real, quality, western style housing that would pass an inspection code in Canada, America or Britain. Dudes putting up tin shacks next to each other with no plumbing and calling them "suburbs". I strongly believe we can do far better, and make a healthy buck!

Thinking out loud here, but getting a truck, a crew of eager youth, and bringing knowhow from the west to places like West Africa where there's demand but no supply could be a good way to start up a sustainably profitable business.

Costing out the the components such as trucks, construction equipment, labour, materials (wood, siding, window frames, cement, etc), corruption penalty (how much will it cost to pay off such and such), and working it out against the revenues, I'm willing to bet that there'd still be a healthy profit to be made. Even the liability of corruption may not be as bad because the onus would fall on the purchaser of the property.

This is a good time for Nigerians (and non Nigerians alike) who are willing to work and have some trades know-how and business acumen. Maybe even get people who aren't African who know trades well to set up shop there, I know lots of dudes out here in Alberta who're working less due to the slowdown in the oil business. Dudes who know how to build a house from scratch with a team of hard working men.

Just thinking aloud...
WestIndianArchie 路 2016-02-21 17:05:00 路 #1555
(02-20-2016 08:21 PM)rudebwoy Wrote:  ^ Let me guess Archie, you loved the rap-off!

I liked the part where Drew was able to parlay his skills into getting paid.

Who knew that Moma had "barz"?

WIA
Moma 路 2016-02-21 18:51:00 路 #1556
Djemba we really need to talk oooo! We are sitting on money.
Moma 路 2016-02-21 19:24:00 路 #1557
Dr Khan, what do you mean about different in performance levels regarding Igbo, Yoruba and Hausa?
Dr. Kahn 路 2016-02-21 19:37:00 路 #1558
(02-21-2016 07:24 PM)Moma Wrote:  Dr Khan, what do you mean about different in performance levels regarding Igbo, Yoruba and Hausa?

What Nigerians at my school pointed out was that Igbo and Yoruba performed much better than Northerners. That Hausa people, etc from the north have a completely different mentality.

-- Dr. Kahn
Moma 路 2016-02-21 21:58:00 路 #1559
(02-21-2016 07:37 PM)Dr. Kahn Wrote:  
(02-21-2016 07:24 PM)Moma Wrote:  Dr Khan, what do you mean about different in performance levels regarding Igbo, Yoruba and Hausa?

What Nigerians at my school pointed out was that Igbo and Yoruba performed much better than Northerners. That Hausa people, etc from the north have a completely different mentality.

-- Dr. Kahn

I've only seen one Hausa guy in my life outside of Nigeria and I've seen a ton of Nigerians. Hausas tend to (and I'm open to correction) enjoy their four or five wives and minding cattle or the agarian life. In Nigeria, I see a lot of them working security (especially in the East) and/or selling suya meat.

I think their ambitions are different perhaps due to their religious affiliation. They are less secular than Igbo and Yoruba.

The Hausa guy that I did see outside of Nigeria..when I mentioned that I never see an Hausa outside of Nigeria, he laughed uproariously and agreed.
rudebwoy 路 2016-02-22 13:10:00 路 #1560
Djemba - great post about Nigeria.

However, Jamaica is not a model you want to emulate.

The country has alot of problems and for me I don't think it is a "livable" place. For the common man, living in "yard" is very hard and unless you leave the island, you are destined to live the same life forever.

I was at my mechanic recently, I sat in the waiting room talking to an old timer who just returned from his annual holiday to Jamaica. He was complaining how some thieves had stolen several of his cows and mutilated one pregnant cow, leaving the body there to rot out.

Also, things are expensive for the locals. He asked me how much do I think a maid earns working in a tourist hotel? I was shocked how little they make, considering how much revenue these hotels make.

I realize Jamaica isn't the only country in the world that suffers like this.
Moma 路 2016-02-22 13:24:00 路 #1561
Rude, Djemba may referring to the business model. Conceptually, a lot of things make sense, it's just the implementation that messes things up. I love Naija and it's potential but trust me, Jamaica can not compare in terms of hardships. I honestly do not believe Naija even has a conceptual plan right now. I have been to both countries and to be honest, Jamaica was a breeze in comparison. We drove from MoBay to Kingston and knowing that I'm familiar with Naija terrain, I was asked of my opinion on Jamaican roads. Compared to Naija roads, it was nothing. You have a large Nigerian community in Jamaica so people are actually immigrating from Naija to yard for an improved general standard of living!
As said, the levels you can reach in Nigeria regarding success is much higher than Jamaica but in terms of living for the average citizen..bwoooy.

Here is the Nigerian embassy in Kingston, Jamaica:
http://www.nhckingston.org
Anabasis to Desta 路 2016-02-23 21:23:00 路 #1562
Excellent post Djemba.

I too believe Nigeria will become a quasi-superpower within our lifetimes.

1 in 4 black people on the planet is Nigerian.

Ghana is not even in the same league. They might have more stability and a better standard of living but their population is tiny. Most of the wealth is concentrated in the hands of foreigners. Christian Lebanese expats control the Gold Coast.

Same with Kenya and Tanzania. Indians and Brits control telecommunications, tourism, hotels, import/export ... everything. Might as well fly the Union Jack with a Hindu statue stamped in the middle.

South Africa and Namibia are controlled by their native European populations.

The ex-French colonies (Ivory coast, Mali, DRC ...) are pathetic French cum dumpsters.

Angola with it's oil is a Multi-national company bitch. I have a friend who was in Angola last year and said that black people are a minority in downtown Luanda. Oil company expats, Portuguese and Brazilians everywhere. Angolans serve dinner, clean rooms and drive taxis. Even the shops are getting bought up by the Chinese. Sad.

Ethiopia is okay due to our inherent xenophobia but since the early 2000's all the fertile land is being bought up by Gulf Arabs for grain and livestock production, the Chinese have taken over construction and the Turks are slowly but surely monopolizing coffee export and mining. Go to strip clubs in Addis Ababa and it might as well be Hong Kong. Hookah bars filled with Arabs finger-blasting hot Ethiopian girls on their Arabian mattresses.

The new scramble for Africa is on it's way. Except for Nigeria.

Nigerian money is in the hands of Nigerians. They call their own shots. For better or for worse they own their country which makes me believe that if they can deal with some of their issues and curb population growth they'd be unstoppable.

The rest og Africa along with every majority black nation in the world is trash. Don't believe me? The 4 poorest countries in the Western Hemisphere are Haiti, Belize, The Dominican Republic & Guyana in that order. All majority black. Makes me wonder if there is something inherently wrong with our race.
the high 路 2016-02-23 22:11:00 路 #1563
The situation going on among Africans and African diaspora is so depressing, nowadays I don't even like thinking about it. It's like we're getting pimped worldwide.
Anabasis to Desta 路 2016-02-23 22:44:00 路 #1564
(02-23-2016 10:11 PM)the high Wrote:  The situation going on among Africans and African diaspora is so depressing, nowadays I don't even like thinking about it. It's like we're getting pimped worldwide.

Agreed.

But more like "letting" ourselves get pimped.
rudebwoy 路 2016-02-23 23:45:00 路 #1565
Nigeria seeking loan from the World Bank

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-35458459
thedarkknight 路 2016-02-24 00:19:00 路 #1566
(02-23-2016 09:23 PM)Anabasis to Desta Wrote:  Excellent post Djemba.

I too believe Nigeria will become a quasi-superpower within our lifetimes.

1 in 4 black people on the planet is Nigerian.

Ghana is not even in the same league. They might have more stability and a better standard of living but their population is tiny. Most of the wealth is concentrated in the hands of foreigners. Christian Lebanese expats control the Gold Coast.

Same with Kenya and Tanzania. Indians and Brits control telecommunications, tourism, hotels, import/export ... everything. Might as well fly the Union Jack with a Hindu statue stamped in the middle.

South Africa and Namibia are controlled by their native European populations.

The ex-French colonies (Ivory coast, Mali, DRC ...) are pathetic French cum dumpsters.

Angola with it's oil is a Multi-national company bitch. I have a friend who was in Angola last year and said that black people are a minority in downtown Luanda. Oil company expats, Portuguese and Brazilians everywhere. Angolans serve dinner, clean rooms and drive taxis. Even the shops are getting bought up by the Chinese. Sad.

Ethiopia is okay due to our inherent xenophobia but since the early 2000's all the fertile land is being bought up by Gulf Arabs for grain and livestock production, the Chinese have taken over construction and the Turks are slowly but surely monopolizing coffee export and mining. Go to strip clubs in Addis Ababa and it might as well be Hong Kong. Hookah bars filled with Arabs finger-blasting hot Ethiopian girls on their Arabian mattresses.

The new scramble for Africa is on it's way. Except for Nigeria.

Nigerian money is in the hands of Nigerians. They call their own shots. For better or for worse they own their country which makes me believe that if they can deal with some of their issues and curb population growth they'd be unstoppable.

The rest og Africa along with every majority black nation in the world is trash. Don't believe me? The 4 poorest countries in the Western Hemisphere are Haiti, Belize, The Dominican Republic & Guyana in that order. All majority black. Makes me wonder if there is something inherently wrong with our race.

Include China and Korea. They were investing heavily in those two countries when i went two years ago. Yeah, sad, sad situation. When will it change? Can it ever change? Forever to be exploited...?
scotian 路 2016-02-24 00:28:00 路 #1567
I came across a few news articles in recent months about the success of the recently launched Jamaican stock market, this seems like an appropriate thread to post it in: It's Jammin': Jamaica's Tiny Stock Market Conquers World in 2015
Quote:Jamaica may bring to mind rum daiquiris and Bob Marley but its stock market had a better year than any other across the globe. Amid the middling returns of the world鈥檚 best known indexes -- the Dow Jones Industrial Average dipped about 1 percent, the Euro Stoxx 50 lost 6 percent in dollar terms-- foreign acquisitions, stronger investor safeguards and a rebounding economy helped the Jamaica Stock Exchange surge more than 80 percent in 2015.
Link: http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2...ld-in-2015

Jamaicans in Canada to invest in stock market come April 1
Quote:Beginning April 1, Jamaicans residing in Canada will be able to participate in trading and other related activities, on the local stock exchange. This, as the Jamaica Stock Exchange (JSE) is set to receive authorization (designation) from the Canadian administration, which will facilitate this arrangement, via the Internet, for the over 300,000 persons of Jamaican descent and origin, currently residing in that North American country.

State Minister for Foreign Affairs and Foreign Trade, Arnaldo Brown, said the arrangement will also afford native Canadians the opportunity to participate in the local stock market, which will enable them to receive tax credits in that country. A tax credit is a sum subtracted from the total amount a taxpayer owes the state, and directly reduces taxes.
Link: http://www.jamaicaobserver.com/latestnew...me-April-1

The Nigerian embassy in Kingston, which is near the Devon House gardens, is indeed a very impressive building for Jamaican standards.
burncushlikewood 路 2016-02-24 05:49:00 路 #1568
(02-23-2016 09:23 PM)Anabasis to Desta Wrote:  Excellent post Djemba.

I too believe Nigeria will become a quasi-superpower within our lifetimes.

1 in 4 black people on the planet is Nigerian.

Ghana is not even in the same league. They might have more stability and a better standard of living but their population is tiny. Most of the wealth is concentrated in the hands of foreigners. Christian Lebanese expats control the Gold Coast.

Same with Kenya and Tanzania. Indians and Brits control telecommunications, tourism, hotels, import/export ... everything. Might as well fly the Union Jack with a Hindu statue stamped in the middle.

South Africa and Namibia are controlled by their native European populations.

The ex-French colonies (Ivory coast, Mali, DRC ...) are pathetic French cum dumpsters.

Angola with it's oil is a Multi-national company bitch. I have a friend who was in Angola last year and said that black people are a minority in downtown Luanda. Oil company expats, Portuguese and Brazilians everywhere. Angolans serve dinner, clean rooms and drive taxis. Even the shops are getting bought up by the Chinese. Sad.

Ethiopia is okay due to our inherent xenophobia but since the early 2000's all the fertile land is being bought up by Gulf Arabs for grain and livestock production, the Chinese have taken over construction and the Turks are slowly but surely monopolizing coffee export and mining. Go to strip clubs in Addis Ababa and it might as well be Hong Kong. Hookah bars filled with Arabs finger-blasting hot Ethiopian girls on their Arabian mattresses.

The new scramble for Africa is on it's way. Except for Nigeria.

Nigerian money is in the hands of Nigerians. They call their own shots. For better or for worse they own their country which makes me believe that if they can deal with some of their issues and curb population growth they'd be unstoppable.

The rest og Africa along with every majority black nation in the world is trash. Don't believe me? The 4 poorest countries in the Western Hemisphere are Haiti, Belize, The Dominican Republic & Guyana in that order. All majority black. Makes me wonder if there is something inherently wrong with our race.
I would have to strongly disagree with that last sentence. The third highest per capita gdp in the americas is trinidad, which is not quite an afro majority but fairly close. Also the islands of seychelles and mauritius off the coast of east africa seem to top the HDI charts in Africa. Africa's current state would most likely be the aftermath of imperialism and colonialism. They have an abundance of resources but the economy is managed poorly. Trinidad's economy does well due to its oil and natural gas reserves, but seychelles and mauritius have neither and these afro majority nations are 2nd and 3rd respectively behind Libya in HDI.
Excelsior 路 2016-02-24 06:24:00 路 #1569
(02-22-2016 01:10 PM)rudebwoy Wrote:  Djemba - great post about Nigeria.

However, Jamaica is not a model you want to emulate.

The country has alot of problems and for me I don't think it is a "livable" place. For the common man, living in "yard" is very hard and unless you leave the island, you are destined to live the same life forever.

I was at my mechanic recently, I sat in the waiting room talking to an old timer who just returned from his annual holiday to Jamaica. He was complaining how some thieves had stolen several of his cows and mutilated one pregnant cow, leaving the body there to rot out.

Also, things are expensive for the locals. He asked me how much do I think a maid earns working in a tourist hotel? I was shocked how little they make, considering how much revenue these hotels make.

I realize Jamaica isn't the only country in the world that suffers like this.

It really can be a shock to the system when you realize just how cash poor so many parts of the world really are. In Jamaica, this shock is doubled when you start to compare the lack of cash with the relatively high cost of living.

I only recently discovered that the minimum wage in Jamaica was set to go up this year. Last year, it was $5600 per 40 hour work week.
That's Jamaican dollars. On the current exchange rate we're talking about $46 US Dollars for a 40 hour work week. This is a minimum wage in Jamaica.
What's the increase? Next week, the minimum is set to rise to a whopping $6200 per 40 hour work week ($51 US).

It is incredible to think about. I mean, there aren't that many highly educated folks in Jamaica who'd be commanding dramatically higher wages, and the unemployment rate is high. That means that, for the typical Jamaican, a weekly salary in this range or not too far off it is pretty much a norm. This is daily life. That's what people have to live on - a few hundred bucks a month.

Even folks who manage decent service industry jobs (ex: a desk greeter working at Norman Manley for Air Jamaica) is only pulling $200-300 US every week. Graduates straight out of the University of the West Indies aren't getting much more than $9000US annually to start, and they're at the very top of the food chain among young Jamaicans in the job market.

There was a high school soccer tournament that drove this point home even further. In Jamaica, high school soccer (referred to as "schoolboy football") is a very big deal. Jamaicans treat it the same way Americans treat college football - same hype, frenzy, tradition, and rabid support. The FLOW Super Cup was the biggest tournament in Jamaican schoolboy football this year, and its final was massive. It featured the two best teams on the island with one led by what was widely considerd the nation's best high school player. All of corporate Jamaica went all-in sponsoring the Super Cup. During the Super Cup final, hype was at an all-time high. Jamaican twitter was buzzing. The National Stadium was filled to capacity (it was maybe half full the night before when the senior national team played in a World Cup Qualifier). Usain Bolt was there for half-time interviews, and every notable Jamaican celebrity on the island was present at the game. It was a real spectacle - the Jamaican Super Bowl.


I'm sitting here thinking "Man, this is a pretty huge tournament. Must be a lot of prize money at stake." There were indeed prizes. What did the winner of this massive spectacle take home at the end of the day?

$1,000,000. That's Jamaican dollars.
This is $8254 US Dollars.

That's it. The biggest event in Jamaican sports, and that's the prize.

And make no mistake, it was a prize. Jamaican announcers and fans were talking about this like it was a gamechanging sum of money. The principal of the winning school was interviewed and seemed aghast as to what to do with it all, saying she'd have discussions since the sum could be put to such good use.

And you know what? That is a gamechanging sum of money in Jamaica. That's more than the vast majority of Jamaicans make in a single year. It's a fortune to them. With the minimum wage as low as it is, you could employ a decent number of folks for a good while on just that small sum alone.

And here's the thing about Jamaica: it isn't like Thailand or the Philippines where everything is dirt cheap. Shit is expensive in Jamaica - you're not going to find any nice, modern $40,000 luxury condos here. Something like that in Jamaica is $200k minimum. Jamaica's cost of living is only about 25% lower than the USA according to Numbeo. Food can be had pretty cheap, but everything else is up there. You can live like a Shah in Thailand with $24k a year, but in Jamaica? No way.

All of this is what helped me to understand where the "eat a food" (read: hustler) mentality and the criminality associated with it comes from in Jamaica. How do you survive in an environment that is so cash poor and yet requires so much just for you to live? I found myself wondering how people were gassing their cars (gas is pricier there than it is here) and making rent.

I even started to notice things about the cars on the road that I'd never notice before. Cars that are plain and unremarkable here in the USA are status symbols in Jamaica because they cost so damn much. A 2015 Honda Accord costs $600US to buy in Jamaica. A Volkswagen Tiguan will run around the same range. A simple little Audi A3 (basic entry-level luxury car here in the states)? Nearly $1000US a month. Now every time I see a car like this, I think "who the hell is affording this?" I know who, of course (Jamaica's small elite isn't hard to identify and yes, income inequality is extreme on the island - "uptown Jamaica" has all the real wealth), but it is still amazing to see the contrast. We wouldn't blink twice at the sight of a new A3 in the American Northeast, but in Jamaica you have to be among society's very elite to even think of affording one. Imagine having to aspire to be at the very pinnacle of your society (almost literally the 0.1%) in order to have any hope of buying a frikkin entry level Audi!

Every single dollar counts in this place. It takes all of those dollars and every cent you've got just to survive. How the hell do people live like that?

The answer: they don't. They either hustle (legally or, often, illegally) to get above those circumstances or they do whatever it takes to get the hell off the island (and I mean whatever it takes).

This is the kind of stuff that has me counting my blessings every day. At the same time, it is also kind of inspiring in a weird way. It helps to know that I can eventually make a difference with what, to me, won't be a whole ton of money to give. I don't need to be Bill Gates to have a big impact on a lot of lives - a few thousand down on the island can get a lot done.

It's a crazy world out there.
WestIndianArchie 路 2016-02-24 08:14:00 路 #1570
This is one of my long standing interests.

Why exactly are places full of natural resources so desperately poor? (Why is Eastern Europe poor even though it's chock full of engineers and scientists?)

How are places like Singapore, Taiwan, Switzerland, rich without having any resources to speak of?

I read economics articles and blogs daily, so it's not like I haven't heard a lot of the arguments.

With Jamaica specifically, there are bauxite mines. But to refine the aluminum they have to ship the ore to Louisiana.

Imagine a power station that could refine the bauxite into aluminum. Then you've got aluminium to make products. Add machine tools, and now you're manufacturing. That's thousands of jobs. That's a middle class. One generation it would take.

It seems that they're pinning their hopes on ganja now, but I don't see more than "get high in Jamdown" as a way to bring more tourists.

Slightly OT

Colombia, Bolivia, Mexico should probably legalize all narcotics and engage in "chemical warfare" on the west.

Don't get me started on Haiti.

WIA
Moma 路 2016-02-24 10:09:00 路 #1571
WIA, it's one thing to analyse it from the surface level but there are other strings being pulled below the surface. Remember that wealth is relative as long as your neighbours are poor. Same way some people enjoy watching Jerry Springer so they can say "At least I don't have as much drama in my life"
WestIndianArchie 路 2016-02-24 10:18:00 路 #1572
@Moma

What's your theory on why Nigeria isn't as rich as Norway?

WIA
rudebwoy 路 2016-02-24 10:23:00 路 #1573
WIA - I think you know the answer to your questions.

My Grandfather use to live near one of the Bauxite mines in central Jamaica. Western companies would take advantage of the 10 year free rent, the Jamaican government would offer them. In return, they create a few jobs for the locals and hopefully these companies stay for the long term. They never do.

The only reason Haiti is poor is because Western countries deliberately keep them under their boots. Former PM Aristride wanted to raise the minimum wage to a whopping 0.39 cents per hour, the same evil forces got him out of power real quick. I could go deeper into the Haiti story, but I don't want to ruffle any feathers on this forum.

Guyana is probably the saddest case in that region, they have oil, gold, bauxite and timber to name a few. Western companies have been raping them for years and no one says a word.

The Jamaica example is sad, I could have sworn the old timer told me the maid makes $50 for a two week period.

The Jamaican dollar use to be stronger than the US dollar in the early 70s.
WestIndianArchie 路 2016-02-24 11:17:00 路 #1574
I actually don't know the answers, but have been searching.

Each country is its own economic lab.

On a smaller level, here in the States, there are places like Alabama and Mississippi that are dirt poor, New Mexico and lots of Appalachia are very close to the same level of poverty.

And it's been that way for decades. It's not the recent productivity gains trickling up to the 1% that the internet/computer age.

Individuals can be poor, but how do you explain deep poverty in rich countries.

It's not even the lack of money, lack of jobs, but no one ever had interest in creating something in those areas?

Rule of law
Low corruption
General physical infrastructure

All the things the economists and politicians say are necessary for progress, yet none happens...

Bigger questions
WestIndianArchie 路 2016-02-24 11:34:00 路 #1575
And Jamaican dollar being stronger really only speaks to international trade.

Why can't these places develop domestic economies that provide goods and services for their own people.

Every iPhone bought is money leaving the home economy and being split between China and Antes
America.

Cheaper foreign goods are great for the people as consumers but horrible for them as workers.

Economic theory says there should be free trade between nations so that A that is good at making cars but bad at making high quality linen should just focus on what they're good at. Nation B should just make linen and get out of the car business. And both will be better off off by trading with each other.

How many bolts of linen is equal to a Tesla?
What's the aggregate demand for cloth versus cars?
How many companies/countries can make cars versus cloth?

You got African miners making slave wages to provide raw materials for the Chinese phones they break themselves to buy.

It's perverse and pervasive.

I know we talked about this in the Jamaican context where politicians were paid to stifle telecom competition.

But it can't just be corruption.

WIA
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