Post: #226

Korea's cheap as hell compared to Britain. Two bottles of Soju costs about £1.40. That's enough for a good pre-drink

Do you have your degree certificate yet? You need that

Next step. If you will leave in the next 6 months, order a Basic Disclosure (criminal background check):

http://www.disclosurescotland.co.uk/basi.../index.htm

As soon as you send off the online form, send them a follow-up email IMMEDIATELY (with the application codes and stuff) VERY VERY CLEARLY asking for it to be 'notarised' by them. Just email them saying "I would like this to be notarised by you" or something (they stick a signature on it).

Will take a week or two to arrive as they send it by second class post

When you get your degree certificate and a notarised basic disclosure, the next step begins

It must be notarised by them. I remember i had to send mine back up to Scotland because they ignored my sodding email. (I had the decency to shell out for a first class stamp though). Maybe even ring them too.

Don't apply for any job until you have your documents 100% sorted. Trust me. They'll put you to the back of the queue. Put your feet up untill the disclosure comes.

When you have your documents 100% sorted you could potentially leave for Seoul 24 hours after applying. Any time before that and you'll be thrown back and forth for a month

Post: #227

No I should get my degree certificate middle of July.

Cheers for the information about the criminal background check they sound like their a pain in the arse to deal with, but I dealt with student finance so it should be ok.

I'll probably wait until I have my degree certificate before I start with the criminal check up.

So let me get this right is this criminal background check only valid for 6 months and after that you're going to have to get a new one if you want to get a job?

I'm guessing the next stage after getting the documents is actually searching for a job which i'm guessing you do via the internet over here?

Post: #228

I'll be in Vietnam August 6th and I'll be looking for a teaching job once I get there. I'll post more info here about the hiring process and requirements next month.

Post: #229

(07-02-2014 04:19 PM)tylerdurden1993 Wrote:  So let me get this right 1.is this criminal background check only valid for 6 months and after that you're going to have to get a new one if you want to get a job?

2.I'm guessing the next stage after getting the documents is actually searching for a job which i'm guessing you do via the internet over here?

1. Generally speaking, yes.

This should not be a problem, though. As Leighton points out, your best course of action is to apply when you have your documents ready. You should find a good contract within a week (or max two weeks) after posting your details for recruiters.

There's no way you'll need that 6 months your criminal record check is valid for.

2. Exactly. Dave's ESL job board is one of a few places you do this.

The trick I've found to be useful on this job board is to just email a few recruiters rather than get too bogged down with what jobs you are applying for. Don't tell one recruiter that you're talking to others unless you want to put some pressure on them to find you something.

Post: #230

Hey, guys. So I'm finishing up college this winter, and, although I don't have a lot of money (I'm working two jobs to pay for gas/food/etc.), I want to go to Europe. I'm very interested in English, writing and filmmaking.

Is there any way to teach in a European country (Czech Republic/Poland/Sweden?) right out of college, as I can make money and travel? Or is this an option I shouldn't consider, as I would rather go to travel than I would to teach. I'm just looking for a self-sustaining way to backpack around Europe for a few months and I'm trying to decide if teaching is a viable option.

I've read through this thread, as well as the small one dedicated to teaching in Europe, but I feel this particular discussion has drawn much more information and good advice.

Thanks,
Renberg

Post: #231

(07-02-2014 07:03 PM)Renberg Wrote:  Hey, guys. So I'm finishing up college this winter, and, although I don't have a lot of money (I'm working two jobs to pay for gas/food/etc.), I want to go to Europe. I'm very interested in English, writing and filmmaking.

Is there any way to teach in a European country (Czech Republic/Poland/Sweden?) right out of college, as I can make money and travel? Or is this an option I shouldn't consider, as I would rather go to travel than I would to teach. I'm just looking for a self-sustaining way to backpack around Europe for a few months and I'm trying to decide if teaching is a viable option.

I've read through this thread, as well as the small one dedicated to teaching in Europe, but I feel this particular discussion has drawn much more information and good advice.

Thanks,
Renberg

As you've already noted, there's a thread for that: /thread-31838.html

The consensus on that thread was that few good opportunities exist in Europe, because there are too many people willing to work practically for free just for the opportunity to visit Europe.

I doubt you'll get a lot more information out of us than that. There are a few of us working in Asia, but I don't think that Europe has many members doing the English teaching thing, for the reason listed above.

Post: #232

(07-02-2014 07:12 PM)Suits Wrote:  

(07-02-2014 07:03 PM)Renberg Wrote:  Hey, guys. So I'm finishing up college this winter, and, although I don't have a lot of money (I'm working two jobs to pay for gas/food/etc.), I want to go to Europe. I'm very interested in English, writing and filmmaking.

Is there any way to teach in a European country (Czech Republic/Poland/Sweden?) right out of college, as I can make money and travel? Or is this an option I shouldn't consider, as I would rather go to travel than I would to teach. I'm just looking for a self-sustaining way to backpack around Europe for a few months and I'm trying to decide if teaching is a viable option.

I've read through this thread, as well as the small one dedicated to teaching in Europe, but I feel this particular discussion has drawn much more information and good advice.

Thanks,
Renberg

As you've already noted, there's a thread for that: /thread-31838.html

The consensus on that thread was that few good opportunities exist in Europe, because there are too many people willing to work practically for free just for the opportunity to visit Europe.

I doubt you'll get a lot more information out of us than that. There are a few of us working in Asia, but I don't think that Europe has many members doing to the English teaching thing, for the reason listed above.

True. Also, I believe many Europeans are submerged into English classes at a young age. Just trying to figure out a way to make it to Europe.

Post: #233

If you want to see Europe and teach English, come teach in China for a year, save as much money as you can and then take a backpack trip through Mongolia, Russia and into Europe. Spend all your money and then fly home from somewhere in Europe.

Post: #234

That's a really interesting idea, Suits.

Do they have semester-length classes in Asia? I am worried about spending too much of my time overseas before attempting to follow my dreams on the west coast of the US.

Post: #235

(07-02-2014 07:19 PM)Suits Wrote:  If you want to see Europe and teach English, come teach in China for a year, save as much money as you can and then take a backpack trip through Mongolia, Russia and into Europe. Spend all your money and then fly home from somewhere in Europe.

Or one of the other lucrative locations in East Asia, for example Taiwan, South Korea or Vietnam.

You could also work in a European country, but expect to do little better than breaking even.

Post: #236

Are there any particular European countries that you would recommend? As discussed on the forum, Poland and Russia seem to be the European go-tos. In your opinion, are they the best options?

Post: #237

How about becoming a fully licensed and certified teacher, doing it for a few years in your homeland and then venturing out to teach Western children across the world? There is some serious money in that.

Post: #238

(07-02-2014 07:28 PM)MaleDefined Wrote:  How about becoming a fully licensed and certified teacher, doing it for a few years in your homeland and then venturing out to teach Western children across the world? There is some serious money in that.

If you are willing to go through the trouble of doing so, this is the most ideal approach.

Personally, I've always found that the legitimate international school teachers represent some of the most repulsive members of the foreign community here in China, given their steadfast commitment to pretending that they aren't in China at all.

Post: #239

(07-02-2014 07:28 PM)MaleDefined Wrote:  How about becoming a fully licensed and certified teacher, doing it for a few years in your homeland and then venturing out to teach Western children across the world? There is some serious money in that.

I'd consider it but I think getting licensed in the US costs money that I'm not willing to spend. Just curious...anyone here actually gone this route (or gotten a teaching cert and taught in local schools abroad)?

Post: #240

(07-02-2014 08:06 PM)Suits Wrote:  

(07-02-2014 07:28 PM)MaleDefined Wrote:  How about becoming a fully licensed and certified teacher, doing it for a few years in your homeland and then venturing out to teach Western children across the world? There is some serious money in that.

Personally, I've always found that the legitimate international school teachers represent some of the most repulsive members of the foreign community here in China, given their steadfast commitment to pretending that they aren't in China at all.

I'm curious to hear more about this. Is it an insular barrier to the outside world they put up considering they interact with English speakers all day?

Post: #241

(07-02-2014 09:13 PM)Saga Wrote:  

(07-02-2014 07:28 PM)MaleDefined Wrote:  How about becoming a fully licensed and certified teacher, doing it for a few years in your homeland and then venturing out to teach Western children across the world? There is some serious money in that.

I'd consider it but I think getting licensed in the US costs money that I'm not willing to spend. Just curious...anyone here actually gone this route (or gotten a teaching cert and taught in local schools abroad)?

This is the route I've taken. Not local schools, but rather American/British accredited schools that teach a foreign population living in said country.

Post: #242

I have a CELTA and a TESOL... go with the TESOL, it'll get you jobs everywhere and everyone knows it as the 'ESL' standard despite what the Cambridge gnomes would like you to believe. When I was in Brazil about 10 years ago, I told the girl behind the HR desk that I had a CELTA. She just looked at me and said "that's fine but do you have a TESOL certificate, that's what we need".

TESOL will set you back 1200 but CELTA is around 4gs.

http://www.globaltesol.com <-- where I got mine, I did a week long course and they had a job in Korea waiting for me at the end of it.

Here in China nobody gives a flying fvk what you've got as long as its a TESL\TEFL\TESOL or starts with a T. All the other 'requirements' are actually just wishful thinking. And just a heads up but pretty much anyone can teach anywhere, in any school abroad, so long as you know someone. You'll find alot of guys with no degree and a TESOL working along some guy with a Masters in basket weaving. Beyond a TESOL, further education in ESL is a huge waste of time.

People will pay TOP DOLLAR for someone who is experienced and entertaining in a classroom, I know this first hand. You need to be GREAT at teaching kids and what you do must seem effortless. You will need about 20 games and you'll need to know how to play them so well that no one will question your skill. You need to be in command of the classroom at all times and you need to know what to say and do to make kids 'shut tthe fck up'.

I think I've played 'sit down\standup' and 'hit the monster' close to a thousand times.

This job is more akin to being a game show host for kids or a pickup artist for adults then it is being a teacher. This is why most 'academics' quit within the first year and do so whilst complaining about the 'popularity contest'. If you can make 'Hang Man' or Volley Ball entertaining, then you are probably a shoe in for this job.

If you are working with adults, you need GAME, that is the secret to ALL adult classes. You need to be funny\fun and you must be a people person, you must know how to push the envelope, tease women and men and walk away with everyone feeling good. Leaning on PPTs and 'academia' will put people to sleep. Its better to have good sales skills than grammar skills, if people think you are an interesting person, you'll have no end of jobs. By the way, being interesting just means asking THEM loads of questions and feigning interest\friendship, they actually don't care about you, they just want to hear how wonderful they are and parade you around as their 'foreign' friend..

The perfect educational background for an English Teacher would be a Barber. Those guys are usually talkative, friendly and they know how to make a guy feel good. Your barber is the guy you trust to do his job right because you have absolutely no idea how to get it done yourself. Most of the time you'll just be nodding your head in agreement to whatever he says but when he makes you look good, I mean, really good, then you want to buy him lunch\coffee or tip him extra. That's what you are going to be doing in this job, there is no book that can teach you these skills.

Post: #243

^This is excellent advice.

Post: #244

(07-02-2014 09:20 PM)MaleDefined Wrote:  

(07-02-2014 08:06 PM)Suits Wrote:  

(07-02-2014 07:28 PM)MaleDefined Wrote:  How about becoming a fully licensed and certified teacher, doing it for a few years in your homeland and then venturing out to teach Western children across the world? There is some serious money in that.

Personally, I've always found that the legitimate international school teachers represent some of the most repulsive members of the foreign community here in China, given their steadfast commitment to pretending that they aren't in China at all.

I'm curious to hear more about this. Is it an insular barrier to the outside world they put up considering they interact with English speakers all day?

I think that it is more a matter of that they never really took specific interest in China or any other foreign country specifically.

People who teach at the primary or high school levels tend to be reasonably simple people in my experience. While they may have a dramatic personality in some cases, they usually don't have terribly interesting personal lives, which is good because it leaves them open to doing grading all the time. The people who are really serious about a certain area of study and are interested in teaching are likely to strongly consider a Ph.D.

I base these sweeping presumptions on my experience as a residence director at a Canadian secondary, my relatives that are certified teachers, the Western certified teachers I've met here in China and the people I met while taking some teaching certification track courses at an American university (before I decided to not spend two more years in school becoming USA certified to teach).

So, often the certified teachers that end up here do so because they want to see the world and when an opportunity to get a good salary and benefits for doing the job they already do pops up for China, they go for it, but not specifically because they want to be in China.

When they arrive, they use their higher than average teaching salary to go to the same expensive expat bar every night, to avoid learning the language and to live somewhere that allows them to interact only with people just like them.

They somehow come across as confident and appearing like they've just stepped off of an airplane for the first time, all at the same time.

Suffice to say, they enjoy the tourist aspects of "living abroad" but make no significant personal investment.

Even the scumbag English teachers you meet here don't tend to tell stories about how they were at a restaurant and refused to be served by anyone who wasn't fluent in English. Sure, they are lazy and have a long list of justifications about why they haven't learned more than two words of Chinese.

These successful Western certified teachers, on the other hand, feel absolutely no compulsion to explain why they are rudely trampling about the country without making the slightest bit of effort to adjust. Rather, they give off a strong impression that they are entitled to all the benefits of living in their own country, while enjoy all the benefits of living abroad on a big fat expat salary.

Post: #245

(07-03-2014 05:42 AM)Suits Wrote:  So, often the certified teachers that end up here do so because they want to see the world and when an opportunity to get a good salary and benefits for doing the job they already do pops up for China, they go for it, but not specifically because they want to be in China.

When they arrive, they use their higher than average teaching salary to go to the same expensive expat bar every night, to avoid learning the language and to live somewhere that allows them to interact only with people just like them.

They somehow come across as confident and appearing like they've just stepped off of an airplane for the first time, all at the same time.

Suffice to say, they enjoy the tourist aspects of "living abroad" but make no significant personal investment.

Even the scumbag English teachers you meet here don't tend to tell stories about how they were at a restaurant and refused to be served by anyone who wasn't fluent in English. Sure, they are lazy and have a long list of justifications about why they haven't learned more than two words of Chinese.

These successful Western certified teachers, on the other hand, feel absolutely no compulsion to explain why they are rudely trampling about the country without making the slightest bit of effort to adjust. Rather, they give off a strong impression that they are entitled to all the benefits of living in their own country, while enjoy all the benefits of living abroad on a big fat expat salary.

I'm sure this is spot on and is probably true of most East Asian countries - your description certainly fits most of their equivalents in Korea (where I lived for a fair length of time), i.e. the qualified (and generally older) Westerner English teachers.

I found it surprisingly difficult to avoid contact with these people, actually. You're often thrown in with them at work and they often end up clinging to you, probably because they have so few meaningful social contacts.

On the upside, most Koreans women I spoke to (and I imagine most Chinese women) don't lump all Westerners together so you won't necessarily be considered a loser just for having an ostensibly similar job to these guys.

In fact, a few young Korean women I spoke to talked to me at length about how, in their minds, there are two different kinds of men who get into teaching English. Broadly, these are equivalent to the two you're describing.

Post: #246

The reality of teaching in the PRC:

In most schools outside the of the International schools and *shutter* EF, you don't do any marking or grading. I work a primary and middle school and my job consists of walking into a classroom, doing a 45 minute lesson and walking out. I have about 50 kids per classroom and the lessons are oral. No lesson planning, no paperwork, ppts, or any bvllsh1t. 30 to 40 bucks per hour and I hardly do anything at all... play a few games, dole out some homework (that never gets done and has no consequences).

The Chinese faculty will NEVER view any foreigner as a REAL teacher degree or not. They even tell the children that they don't have to do homework assigned from a foreigner or accept any punishments. Really you are just a white face in front of a large audience and you exist for no other reason but for the school to tell the government that they have a 'foreign teacher' to get funding for that program.

The moment you start to take this job seriously is when you really lose it. As long as you understand that you are basically a foreign babysitter, you'll get through this without any problems. As soon as you start demanding respect or trying to actually teach your students something you'll be met with a mix of anger and disrespect as both faculty and students do their best to ignore you. Everyone passes your class no matter what grades they get. If you give them an F, someone in the school's 'education' dept will adjust it to a C+. If you consistently send a bad student to the office, you'll get a call from the principal and he'll ask you why you are bothering him with this student so much. Once you realize that no one really cares about anything that goes on here, then you can start sort of enjoying your 'career'. Really no one cares... there is a big song and dance at HR where they ask you your degree and a bunch of scripted questions but when its time for class, really, nobody gives a fvck what you do so long as you stand in front of the class and are white.

This is what it means to work in China.

I'll give you a good example of my last class before the break, I found one girl beating up on a special needs kid. Slapping her across the face in a corner where noone could see her. I grabbed her arm and hauled her down to the office where the administrator became irate after finding out why I had sent her. She wasn't angry at the little girl, she was p1ssed off that I had brought this girl down for discipline 5 minutes before she was going to punch out. I got flak for stopping abuse...

THIS IS CHINA.

Everyone thinks we are losers in China, especially the faculty of the school, its part of the job. You also get paid 5 times a local teachers salary to do 10 times less work. You really have to understand the Asian mindset to get why it both sucks and rocks working here. On the upside you do nothing and are handed tons of cash for it, on the downside you will never be recognized as a professional at anything more than being a class clown. The people who survive here are the ones who really don't give a rats a$$ and just want the paycheck, they've come to accept their lot in life, myself included.

Just to give you an example... in one school I was paid nearly 2000 dollars a month over a summer break to simply sleep, sit and hang out with other teachers, play video games and magic cards. Not one single fvck was given. I did absolutely nothing for 3 months and got paid to do it. This is sort of run of the mill as far as teaching goes. In another kindy, we got a 3 hour break midday where you were encouraged to sleep (they provided folding couches) in an AC office. The job consisted of holding little children's hands and making them sing a song for an hour and play a short game.

Post: #247

So to teach English in China do you need to have a criminal background check like Korea or don't you have to bother?

Also I know you don't need a degree but I have one so does that make it easier and do you actually need a TEFL/TESOL qualification? Or are they not really bothered about it?

Post: #248

Interestingly enough the ESL teachers I met in Russia were quiet different, not your usual batch. They seemed to be more ambitious, more intelligent and overall clued up. Most of the foreign teachers I met in China, were scooped up by scam artist companies, because they were desperate to leave, naive, or a sex tourist. Most expats in China are lonely as fuck, its hard to explain, you get a lot of attention, cheap food, cheap drink; finding a girlfriend is bar none a problem aside from the language barrier. Most of them had a dislike for the Chinese, the ones who lived here for the longest, had the most hatred for the locals.

The education system is a joke, teaching privately one on one is a lot better, although the companies who are trying this new strategy out will massively undercut you. You get to know the families, and they will be very warm to you; the best ones are teaching the adults. The teenagers in China are overly social awkward, the females will fancy you and this can get very awkward. I used to teach this trainee doctor and we would just sit in a diner and talk about politics, I would teach him new words and correct his pronunciation.

I stayed in Guangzhou and Shenzhen. By far Guangzhou was the best, a really cool city. In terms of women, you have a lot of foreign models living and working there, and the level of english is altogether a lot higher than other parts of the region. You are near to Hong Kong as well, one fast train to Shenzhen North Station and then a short journey to the border crossing.
Gaming is very easier, I wouldn't usually recommend meeting people from the internet, but expat sites are fantastic for this.

I hear Badwolf on the schools, the teaching companies are dreadful, best thing to have is a gig where you are left to your own devices, so you can teach on the side. with a company that is paying you over 9000RMB. I will give the newbies a break because sometimes you have to take whatever you can in order to get into the country.

Post: #249

@Suits: Thanks for the insight. I've lived abroad enough to understand the line between being a casual passerby and a trampling tourist. I'd like to think I am much more the former than the latter.

Post: #250

(07-03-2014 10:27 AM)Constitution45 Wrote:  Most of the foreign teachers I met in China, were scooped up by scam artist companies, because they were desperate to leave, naive, or a sex tourist.

I started learning the ropes in China as a student, so I didn't get my start working for some scammer agent. But in general, this is pretty standard in a lot of ways.

Quote:Most expats in China are lonely as fuck,

Been there, but only for a few months back in my student days. If you wanna survive in China, you gotta network hard to find the few cool people worth forming friendships with, whether they be Chinese or foreigner.

Quote:its hard to explain, you get a lot of attention, cheap food, cheap drink; finding a girlfriend is bar none a problem aside from the language barrier. Most of them had a dislike for the Chinese, the ones who lived here for the longest, had the most hatred for the locals.

Chinese are easy to dislike, because most of them are amoral assholes who will screw over anyone on their way to a profit.

Those who aren't assholes will do nothing to prevent the assholes from doing their thing out of fear of retribution.

The attitude I've adopted is that the most important thing is to stay positive. This means not staying in any pathetic job any longer than absolutely necessary, developing hobbies that will make your existence seem stable and forming relationships with the right people, preferable ones who also work hard to stay positive.

Spending all your time bitching about Chinese people serves no purpose, although once in a while you need to talk about it just to remind yourself that you aren't insane.

What I keep reminding myself is that I'm not in China to make nice with Chinese people.

I'm here because I can make a lot of quick money here and build up a nice sized, post university nest egg.

I'm here because becoming 100% fluent in Chinese is a skill I can take with me anywhere,

I'm here to earn back all the money that I've lost being screwed over by these assholes.

I'm here to put white dick in yellow pussy, just because I can.

I'm here to form strong bonds with other foreigners who get what it's all about.

I'm here to stay the hell away from Western women.

Quote:The education system is a joke, teaching privately one on one is a lot better, although the companies who are trying this new strategy out will massively undercut you. You get to know the families, and they will be very warm to you; the best ones are teaching the adults. The teenagers in China are overly social awkward, the females will fancy you and this can get very awkward. I used to teach this trainee doctor and we would just sit in a diner and talk about politics, I would teach him new words and correct his pronunciation.

Private education is the way to go. The smaller the footprint the better. The larger the footprint, the larger the portion of tuition that goes to the useless dicks in management instead of the teachers who do the real work. Ideally, you find one-on-one work where you deal directly with the client or the client's parents with no middle man.

You'll keep all the money this way and won't have to deal with the retard middle men who seem to exist everywhere in China.

Second best is the small language training schools run by just one person who operates quasi-legally, isn't authorized to employ foreigners and does marketing exclusively by word of mouth.

If you work at a small company like this, you'll know the boss personally and you'll find that unlike the splashy big companies where a lot of resources are invested into marketing but not much into actual education, these small time bosses actually care about quality, since the only way they get new students in through positive feedback that generate word of mouth based interest in her services.

If you can do it, try to avoid some big company, because they are all the same. They make tons of promises to potential students that they have no intention of keeping so that they'll fork over two years worth of tuition up front. The only plus side to working at these places is that it's fun to steal their students and convert them to one-on-one side clients.

Also, the Chinese English teachers can be hot-to-trot.

Quote:I hear Badwolf on the schools, the teaching companies are dreadful, best thing to have is a gig where you are left to your own devices, so you can teach on the side. with a company that is paying you over 9000RMB. I will give the newbies a break because sometimes you have to take whatever you can in order to get into the country.

These lousy jobs can either be "starter jobs" or they can be your own personal hell for as long as you stick around.

The thing is to never take a lousy job with weekend and evening hours. Rather, save those hours for picking up side jobs, which will make you self-sufficient financially (you'll still need to find a way to get a visa) when it's time to quick your starter job.

(07-03-2014 10:50 AM)MaleDefined Wrote:  @Suits: Thanks for the insight. I've lived abroad enough to understand the line between being a casual passerby and a trampling tourist. I'd like to think I am much more the former than the latter.

No judgment here. While I notice certain trends (which tend to be 99% accurate in my experience), I'm always excited to meet someone who breaks the mold, because those are the people I want to meet and become friends with.