Post: #701

Just how fucked are you on options with teaching abroad if you have no college degree? I want to do this in a Middle Eastern country, but it looks like the ones that pay quite well all require a bachelor's degree.

I am, however, open to other countries too. Russian, French, and Spanish I'm also interested in learning, as they're huge lingua francas.

EDIT: I am at the moment trying to pull this maneuver off - live abroad for cheap while making more than I need, so I can send back a percentage for college loans. I am unable to finish at the moment, but getting rid of a third of my debt would be a very big help before I finally complete it.

Post: #702

In general, without any college degree you are looking at bottom of the barrel positions, the type of teaching gigs that backpackers get.

Southeast Asia has the highest concentration of these jobs.

If you take one of these jobs you will most likely find you don't want to continue after a month, if that. You will certainly not be paying down student loans with the income these type of jobs provide. The income will cover your very basic living costs, in some cases not even that.

In the Middle East it is basically impossible to get a teaching job without a degree. You won't be teaching in M.E.

Nor in Japan, South Korea, or Europe.

Forget South America too. There isn't the demand compared to Asia, nor the money, and a there's lot of competition for even the lowest jobs. It's possible - I did it - but I wouldn't tell others to try.

As far as an income producing/money saving strategy, the type of teaching gigs you could get right now are a terrible way to achieve those goals.

You would be able to save more cash working as a waiter or bartender or uber driver where you are right now- much more in fact - and I don't even need to know where you are in the U.S.

I've done what you're thinking of doing, on multiple continents, and trust me it is not a way to save money. And I say that having been very fortunate doing some of the best gigs possible for my level of qualifications at the time.

What are your skills? What degree are you working on? Think about ways you can put those skills to work to generate cash.

Post: #703

Do not come to china with no degree. I'm pretty sure most 1-tier cities (the most livable cities) require that you have a college degree to get a job at the most basic of learning centers. You will probably have to work illegally and when you work illegally in china your boss can fuck you over on a whim.

I know a guy out here who was working illegally for a while, found a new job doing some sort of Food and beverage shit (illegally) and then tried to get back into teaching after his boss said he couldn't pay him. He was trying to find teaching gigs but being just a white face does not cut it anymore in Shenzhen. You need credentials.

Do not give chinese people a reason to exploit you. Coming to China without proper credentials means you're beholden to your boss's whims. Dangerous proposition.

Post: #704

(03-20-2017 04:40 AM)GlobalMan Wrote:  In general, without any college degree you are looking at bottom of the barrel positions, the type of teaching gigs that backpackers get.

Southeast Asia has the highest concentration of these jobs.

If you take one of these jobs you will most likely find you don't want to continue after a month, if that. You will certainly not be paying down student loans with the income these type of jobs provide. The income will cover your very basic living costs, in some cases not even that.

In the Middle East it is basically impossible to get a teaching job without a degree. You won't be teaching in M.E.

Nor in Japan, South Korea, or Europe.

Forget South America too. There isn't the demand compared to Asia, nor the money, and a there's lot of competition for even the lowest jobs. It's possible - I did it - but I wouldn't tell others to try.

As far as an income producing/money saving strategy, the type of teaching gigs you could get right now are a terrible way to achieve those goals.

You would be able to save more cash working as a waiter or bartender or uber driver where you are right now- much more in fact - and I don't even need to know where you are in the U.S.

I've done what you're thinking of doing, on multiple continents, and trust me it is not a way to save money. And I say that having been very fortunate doing some of the best gigs possible for my level of qualifications at the time.

What are your skills? What degree are you working on? Think about ways you can put those skills to work to generate cash.

Global Studies - basically a re-branded international studies or foreign policy major. Had no real direction in college until last year and was very financially irresponsible. I just got back from studying abroad, and was immediately greeted with some grim news - my family's financial situation is awful to the point where I would need to take more loans out to finish my final year and a half of school (and at this point let's just say I'm too far in debt to consider doing that shit - not touching private loans in particular).

I am taking this semester off to, more or less, work my ass off and pay off some credit card debt (I make at most about 22K a year). Getting a second job soon so I can achieve that by early 2018 and switch to paying off loans while living in my current city.

My plan after I finished college was to live abroad and make a decent enough wage to begin paying off loans. From what you just told me, that isn't a bad plan - but I have to finish school first, so I'll get creative with that.

My current gig is a call center job that pays OK, but we only get raises (like 25 cent raises) once every six months, and double holiday pay is too rare to really be something that keeps me there. If I don't become a supervisor by summer I'm likely going to just find another gig, probably bartending. Trying to get creative with side gigs, too - looks like there are semi-decent ways to make money translating foreign language documents online, but you need to be near fluency for that (I am intermediate-high in Arabic and at best intermediate-low in French).

At this point I'm likely not going to (long-term) leave the country again until I've saved up some fuck-you money and graduated college as a step 1 and 2. As living abroad changed my life and I want to keep traveling, I am motivated enough to do this - so if I work hard enough I can probably achieve it in under three years.

Post: #705

(03-20-2017 04:40 AM)GlobalMan Wrote:  In general, without any college degree you are looking at bottom of the barrel positions, the type of teaching gigs that backpackers get.

Southeast Asia has the highest concentration of these jobs.

If you take one of these jobs you will most likely find you don't want to continue after a month, if that. You will certainly not be paying down student loans with the income these type of jobs provide. The income will cover your very basic living costs, in some cases not even that.

In the Middle East it is basically impossible to get a teaching job without a degree. You won't be teaching in M.E.

Nor in Japan, South Korea, or Europe.

Forget South America too. There isn't the demand compared to Asia, nor the money, and a there's lot of competition for even the lowest jobs. It's possible - I did it - but I wouldn't tell others to try.

As far as an income producing/money saving strategy, the type of teaching gigs you could get right now are a terrible way to achieve those goals.

You would be able to save more cash working as a waiter or bartender or uber driver where you are right now- much more in fact - and I don't even need to know where you are in the U.S.

I've done what you're thinking of doing, on multiple continents, and trust me it is not a way to save money. And I say that having been very fortunate doing some of the best gigs possible for my level of qualifications at the time.

What are your skills? What degree are you working on? Think about ways you can put those skills to work to generate cash.

In South America it is pretty hard to lock down anything worthwhile? I was contemplating trying to look into doing it in Lima and Medellin but i have no degree. Whenever i've been there (Medellin) the locals always tell me i would pick up a job no problem or you can freelance as well if you can make some connections, time will tell i guess.

Post: #706

(03-20-2017 09:23 PM)benji Wrote:  Whenever i've been there (Medellin) the locals always tell me i would pick up a job no problem or you can freelance as well if you can make some connections, time will tell i guess.

Since these locals are not foreign English teachers, don't assume they know anything relevant to your situation. Their pronouncements are based on what they'd like to be true and/or what they think you want to hear in order to like them. They won't be able to understand the differences between their situation and yours.

To understand the situation on the ground, put more stock in forums for foreign English teachers. At some point you may need to just go and try it.

Post: #707

(03-20-2017 09:23 PM)benji Wrote:  In South America it is pretty hard to lock down anything worthwhile? I was contemplating trying to look into doing it in Lima and Medellin but i have no degree. Whenever i've been there (Medellin) the locals always tell me i would pick up a job no problem or you can freelance as well if you can make some connections, time will tell i guess.

The locals have no idea what the situation is for gringo English teachers. They walk by a few schools and see them full, or are aware of the price the schools get, and interpret that to mean there is high demand and/or high pay for English teachers.

My Colombiana talked numerous times about all the people in her neighborhood and friends who would want a private English teacher. You know how many private students I got out of the dozens of people contacted, including mostly wealthy families? One. And I am a very good looking and charming man...

Everyone is interested in taking private English classes- until they realize they have to actually show up, and have to pay you.

You can get a job teaching English without a degree in Colombia but it will not be a great one, obviously. There is an exception that makes things not terrible, which I will outline below.

Bogota is a much better bet for finding a teaching job. If you are truly set on going to Colombia to try to teach without a degree - and I don't think you should, but if you insist - then I suggest Bogota not Medellin. Seek out the companies which send teachers to have private one-on-one sessions with business executives. That is what I did there. The pay is better than you'll get at a traditional school. Show up wearing nice slacks and a nice shirt with tie- you will already be halfway there. Most teachers dress like bums, and the Colombian owners appreciate a well dressed teacher, especially going to meet executives. Simply being dressed well, serious and having a good attitude I was being sent to the most important clients from day one. How you present yourself is the difference between being sent to spend two hours teaching a clueless and uninterested low level manager or spending two hours with the president of Pirelli South America talking about literature, sipping excellent coffee and never opening the lesson books. Many guys doing this did not have a degree.

If you want a name of a company that has these jobs in Bogota then shoot me a PM. There may be something like this in Medellin, but I can't imagine the demand for business English is anywhere near as large as in Bogota.

Post: #708

Both of the previous two posters are absolutely on the mark.

People like to sound knowledge and positive. Advice is usually worth about what you pay for it.

And even if other teachers have had success, that doesn't mean that you will. I've known guys in China who, despite the extreme demand here, have managed to screw up every job opportunity that came along.

If I haven't seen someone in a classroom, I'm willing to make no pronouncements about how successful they would be. It really comes down to your people skills and how much the paying clients like/value you.

A super-teacher with great social skills, decent looks and amazing self-marketing/sales abilities could probably make bank in just about any large city if he has a niche he's exploiting, but you should count on years of experience before reaching that level.

I live in Beijing precisely because there is a strong market here. I'm not sure how well I'd do in a different place.

Post: #709

(03-21-2017 12:38 AM)GlobalMan Wrote:  Everyone is interested in taking private English classes- until they realize they have to actually show up, and have to pay you.

This is exactly right. It's a bit like going to the dentist. Everyone knows they should go regularly but it's easy to put off, since it's uncomfortable and expensive. Classes, even when they're fun, are just one more responsibility that cuts into their free time, energy and budget.

Post: #710

(03-21-2017 01:57 AM)Suits Wrote:  A super-teacher with great social skills, decent looks and amazing self-marketing/sales abilities could probably make bank in just about any large city if he has a niche he's exploiting, but you should count on years of experience before reaching that level.

Absolutely. Social skills are so important for freelance teachers, at least as important as knowledge of English or best practices in language teaching. Adult students want to hear that they're doing fine, they want to be complemented on their English, they want to feel that you like and respect them and are interested in them as people. Honestly sometimes it's hard to do all that while simultaneously helping them take their English to the next level. It's a balancing act.

Post: #711

DELETE

Post: #712

I have an MS in STEM and am considering teaching math or science abroad. I don't have a license yet, so I think I'm not eligible for any international schools, except the lower-tier ones

The best openings seem to be in China. The salary offered in Thailand is much lower. I've heard the students in China are also better behaved

Is it recommended to start in China, or does location not matter?

Post: #713

(04-02-2017 03:35 AM)boss13 Wrote:  I have an MS in STEM and am considering teaching math or science abroad. I don't have a license yet, so I think I'm not eligible for any international schools, except the lower-tier ones

The best openings seem to be in China. The salary offered in Thailand is much lower. I've heard the students in China are also better behaved

Is it recommended to start in China, or does location not matter?

Location matters. I think China offers the most flexibility and potential. You can get a job that comes with a work visa or strike out freelance on a tourist visa (just don't get caught). You wouldn't be able to pull that off in Japan or Korea (and Thailand is making it just about impossible to exist on tourist visas), but Chinese immigration still doesn't question me after living here on a tourist visa for over a year (I do have to exit the country every 60 days, but can come right back in). For Canadian and US citizens, the standard tourist visa is a 10 year visa with 60 or 90 days per entry.

Japan offers a more comfortable cultural experience, but is more expensive, even outside of major cities. Korea is full of hardcore racists who aren't afraid to show it and who would love to fight you.

Thailand and Taiwan pays about half of what mainland China does. Most recent info on Taiwan is that you can still get by on tourist visas, but you'll want to avoid drawing attention to yourself. In Thailand, the best choice would be to either get a legit job with a work visa or get a student visa (whether you go to class or not). You can get a student visa for studying fucking martial arts in Thailand.

Vietnam is like China was 10-15 years ago. You can get by fairly well on tourist visas and costs are low. The women are comparatively attractive.

Don't go teach in Cambodia.

There's also Malaysia, which I think needs to be given more attention. The women are less attractive on average, but the attractive ones have a shortage of attractive foreign men to choose from. You can probably get by for a while on tourist visas if you work under the table in Malaysia, although most employers should be able to get you a work visa if they can be bothered to make the effort.

Post: #714

(05-26-2017 12:33 AM)Suits Wrote:  

(04-02-2017 03:35 AM)boss13 Wrote:  I have an MS in STEM and am considering teaching math or science abroad. I don't have a license yet, so I think I'm not eligible for any international schools, except the lower-tier ones

The best openings seem to be in China. The salary offered in Thailand is much lower. I've heard the students in China are also better behaved

Is it recommended to start in China, or does location not matter?

Location matters. I think China offers the most flexibility and potential. You can get a job that comes with a work visa or strike out freelance on a tourist visa (just don't get caught). You wouldn't be able to pull that off in Japan or Korea (and Thailand is making it just about impossible to exist on tourist visas), but Chinese immigration still doesn't question me after living here on a tourist visa for over a year (I do have to exit the country every 60 days, but can come right back in). For Canadian and US citizens, the standard tourist visa is a 10 year visa with 60 or 90 days per entry.

Japan offers a more comfortable cultural experience, but is more expensive, even outside of major cities. Korea is full of hardcore racists who aren't afraid to show it and who would love to fight you.

Thailand and Taiwan pays about half of what mainland China does. Most recent info on Taiwan is that you can still get by on tourist visas, but you'll want to avoid drawing attention to yourself. In Thailand, the best choice would be to either get a legit job with a work visa or get a student visa (whether you go to class or not). You can get a student visa for studying fucking martial arts in Thailand.

Vietnam is like China was 10-15 years ago. You can get by fairly well on tourist visas and costs are low. The women are comparatively attractive.

Don't go teach in Cambodia.

There's also Malaysia, which I think needs to be given more attention. The women are less attractive on average, but the attractive ones have a shortage of attractive foreign men to choose from. You can probably get by for a while on tourist visas if you work under the table in Malaysia, although most employers should be able to get you a work visa if they can be bothered to make the effort.

What are your thoughts on Cambodia exactly?

Post: #715

(04-02-2017 03:35 AM)boss13 Wrote:  I have an MS in STEM and am considering teaching math or science abroad. I don't have a license yet, so I think I'm not eligible for any international schools, except the lower-tier ones

You don't need a license to teach in top-tier international schools. You need a few years of experience teaching in your home country. The topic of teaching (any subject) in international schools was discussed extensively in this thread a few pages back, especially by user MaleDefined.

Post: #716

Copied from a thread i started earlier. It's been a crazy few days! Any help is appreciated.

Hey fellas,

Just found out i'll no longer have a job in three months so i'm looking at all the possibilities and hitting the panic button.

I was already looking at teaching english overseas but now i'm seriously looking into it. Everywhere i look it says must have a University degree + TEFL. Has anyone actually achieved this? (working without one) or have any suggestions on what countries or websites to research to find out more?

Little bit of background, i'm 36, have a house back home which i rent out that pays for itself, have about $8-10k AUD coming in each year through investments. No other outstanding debts or income. Will be able to have saved about $10-15k before i leave.

I've had a quick look at working in America (not teaching english), i'd love to work in Vegas but it seems like my age does cancel myself out of a lot of opportunities not just there but all through Europe, 35 being the cutoff age for temp/casual overseas work.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated,

Cheers

Post: #717

(05-28-2017 10:03 AM)Heart Break Kid Wrote:  

(05-26-2017 12:33 AM)Suits Wrote:  Don't go teach in Cambodia.

What are your thoughts on Cambodia exactly?

I visited Cambodia a few years back and was fascinated. Would love to spend more time there.

That said, Cambodia is about as bad is it gets in Asia for ESL pay and student quality. Not to mention that your co-workers will probably all be drug addicts.

If someone else has had different experiences, I'd love to hear more, because Cambodia is a country that I'd love to have an excuse to spend more time in.

Cambodia would be a great place to start a small company. As a business owner, your social circle would be improved, as among the educated, there are many great people in Cambodia who want that best for their country and value anyone who takes an interest in their culture and contributes jobs and value.

But for ESL, there are so many better options that it just doesn't make sense.

(05-29-2017 03:26 AM)benji Wrote:  Just found out i'll no longer have a job in three months so i'm looking at all the possibilities and hitting the panic button.

I was already looking at teaching english overseas but now i'm seriously looking into it. Everywhere i look it says must have a University degree + TEFL. Has anyone actually achieved this? (working without one) or have any suggestions on what countries or websites to research to find out more?

You've post in this thread before, so I'm going to assume you've given it a proper read.

I work without a Z-visa in China by working for low-profile private clients (families or small schools that are unlikely to be on the receiving end of an immigration police inspection).

Obviously, by using a tourist visa instead of applying for a job that comes with a work visa, my qualifications are irrelevant.

Working privately on a part-time basis with each client pays 2 or 3 times what you'd earn in a "real job" doing exactly the same or similar work.

Since you have some passive income, you could do worse than to come here, follow a teacher around for a week or two and learn as much as you can and then strike out on your own.

If you are particular about the countries you are willing to work in, then there isn't much advice I can offer you.

(05-29-2017 03:26 AM)benji Wrote:  Little bit of background, i'm 36, have a house back home which i rent out that pays for itself, have about $8-10k AUD coming in each year through investments. No other outstanding debts or income. Will be able to have saved about $10-15k before i leave.

Since you don't have the pressure to earn every month just to pay the bills, I think the freelance route would be ideal for you.

How much money do you expect to earn? Which countries are you willing to consider?

Post: #718

(05-29-2017 03:26 AM)benji Wrote:  Just found out i'll no longer have a job in three months so i'm looking at all the possibilities and hitting the panic button.

I was already looking at teaching english overseas but now i'm seriously looking into it. Everywhere i look it says must have a University degree + TEFL. Has anyone actually achieved this? (working without one) or have any suggestions on what countries or websites to research to find out more?

Little bit of background, i'm 36, have a house back home which i rent out that pays for itself, have about $8-10k AUD coming in each year through investments. No other outstanding debts or income. Will be able to have saved about $10-15k before i leave.

I've had a quick look at working in America (not teaching english), i'd love to work in Vegas but it seems like my age does cancel myself out of a lot of opportunities not just there but all through Europe, 35 being the cutoff age for temp/casual overseas work.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated,

Cheers

Copied from the other thread:

in Thailand some places let you teach without a degree or TEFL, although it's an official requirement.

Fun language is a teaching agency in Bangkok, you can Google it, that trains you and so no TEFL required. They ideally want a degree but there are some guys I know of working there who don't have one. They don't see it as that important, it's more about interpersonal skills with the kids the way they teach (games, songs, etc.)

Have also known guys who independently approached schools directly, interviewed well, and got jobs. In Asia you can also always just put up an ad with your pic and contact details and offering to do private tutoring. Or since the cost of living is so low you can look into Skype teaching for Chinese students online, lots of websites for that.

In fact those may offer a better rate of pay than Thailand.

Post: #719

If you're serious about living abroad and making half decent coin get a teaching degree and shoot for International Schools. Unless of course you don't care about money.

Post: #720

If somebody could bust out a data sheet on masters in education, or teaching in international schools, many would be very appreciative...

Post: #721

(05-30-2017 03:55 AM)churros Wrote:  If somebody could bust out a data sheet on masters in education, or teaching in international schools, many would be very appreciative...

MaleDefined just started this thread: The International Teaching Thread.

Post: #722

(05-30-2017 03:08 AM)Razors Edge Wrote:  If you're serious about living abroad and making half decent coin get a teaching degree and shoot for International Schools. Unless of course you don't care about money.

I'm working freelance and make as much money as the folks working in international schools. And I work half as much as they do.

Post: #723

Delete

Post: #724

(05-30-2017 08:49 PM)Suits Wrote:  

(05-30-2017 03:08 AM)Razors Edge Wrote:  If you're serious about living abroad and making half decent coin get a teaching degree and shoot for International Schools. Unless of course you don't care about money.

I'm working freelance and make as much money as the folks working in international schools. And I work half as much as they do.

That's impressive and I would hazard to see rare. Good stuff.

Post: #725

(05-31-2017 03:42 AM)Razors Edge Wrote:  

(05-30-2017 08:49 PM)Suits Wrote:  

(05-30-2017 03:08 AM)Razors Edge Wrote:  If you're serious about living abroad and making half decent coin get a teaching degree and shoot for International Schools. Unless of course you don't care about money.

I'm working freelance and make as much money as the folks working in international schools. And I work half as much as they do.

That's impressive and I would hazard to see rare. Good stuff.

It's fairly common.

Most teachers don't because they lack ambition, but all you really have to do is put fliers on all the doors of your housing community and you'll make a ton of money.

Personally, I find this approach too risky, as it's a good way to get reported for working illegally, but I've known plenty to do it without anything bad coming of it.