Post: #726

I haven't read this thread in full, but see a lot of people mentioning international schools.

One of my buddies in a large European capital is an English teacher at the most prestigious int'l university in the city, and doesn't make much while working there. Most of his money comes from private clients, I think he even tutors the dean 1-on-1.

But they also have given him free rooms for seminars and the likes.

Food for thought.

Post: #727

(06-01-2017 08:48 AM)This Is Trouble Wrote:  I haven't read this thread in full, but see a lot of people mentioning international schools.

One of my buddies in a large European capital is an English teacher at the most prestigious int'l university in the city, and doesn't make much while working there. Most of his money comes from private clients, I think he even tutors the dean 1-on-1.

But they also have given him free rooms for seminars and the likes.

Food for thought.

Just to be clear, 'international school' refers to levels below university (and there's now a separate thread for that). English teaching at universities is a whole different thing.

Post: #728

(05-29-2017 04:38 AM)Suits Wrote:  

(05-28-2017 10:03 AM)Heart Break Kid Wrote:  

(05-26-2017 12:33 AM)Suits Wrote:  Don't go teach in Cambodia.

What are your thoughts on Cambodia exactly?

I visited Cambodia a few years back and was fascinated. Would love to spend more time there.

That said, Cambodia is about as bad is it gets in Asia for ESL pay and student quality. Not to mention that your co-workers will probably all be drug addicts.

If someone else has had different experiences, I'd love to hear more, because Cambodia is a country that I'd love to have an excuse to spend more time in.

Cambodia would be a great place to start a small company. As a business owner, your social circle would be improved, as among the educated, there are many great people in Cambodia who want that best for their country and value anyone who takes an interest in their culture and contributes jobs and value.

But for ESL, there are so many better options that it just doesn't make sense.

(05-29-2017 03:26 AM)benji Wrote:  Just found out i'll no longer have a job in three months so i'm looking at all the possibilities and hitting the panic button.

I was already looking at teaching english overseas but now i'm seriously looking into it. Everywhere i look it says must have a University degree + TEFL. Has anyone actually achieved this? (working without one) or have any suggestions on what countries or websites to research to find out more?

You've post in this thread before, so I'm going to assume you've given it a proper read.

I work without a Z-visa in China by working for low-profile private clients (families or small schools that are unlikely to be on the receiving end of an immigration police inspection).

Obviously, by using a tourist visa instead of applying for a job that comes with a work visa, my qualifications are irrelevant.

Working privately on a part-time basis with each client pays 2 or 3 times what you'd earn in a "real job" doing exactly the same or similar work.

Since you have some passive income, you could do worse than to come here, follow a teacher around for a week or two and learn as much as you can and then strike out on your own.

If you are particular about the countries you are willing to work in, then there isn't much advice I can offer you.

(05-29-2017 03:26 AM)benji Wrote:  Little bit of background, i'm 36, have a house back home which i rent out that pays for itself, have about $8-10k AUD coming in each year through investments. No other outstanding debts or income. Will be able to have saved about $10-15k before i leave.

Since you don't have the pressure to earn every month just to pay the bills, I think the freelance route would be ideal for you.

How much money do you expect to earn? Which countries are you willing to consider?

Sorry for the late response. I'm hoping to just cover the cost of living so if i can make $1,000-1,500 USD a month i'd be very happy.

Pretty open to a bunch of places - Colombia, Peru, Chile, Costa Rica, Vietnam, Taipei, Ukraine where a few of the places i'd like to visit.

Post: #729

(07-22-2017 03:12 AM)benji Wrote:  

(05-29-2017 04:38 AM)Suits Wrote:  Since you don't have the pressure to earn every month just to pay the bills, I think the freelance route would be ideal for you.

How much money do you expect to earn? Which countries are you willing to consider?

Sorry for the late response. I'm hoping to just cover the cost of living so if i can make $1,000-1,500 USD a month i'd be very happy.

Pretty open to a bunch of places - Colombia, Peru, Chile, Costa Rica, Vietnam, Taipei, Ukraine where a few of the places i'd like to visit.

The decision as to which country to go to is deeply personal and I don't think anyone can give you information in this thread that isn't already available elsewhere on this forum and the web.

I think you need to construct a list of what you are looking for in a location, do your research and then rank each country. Narrow the short-list down to three and then look for opportunities.

Suggestions for your list:

• Attractiveness of the women
• Friendliness of the people
• Long term residency options
• Westher
• Hobbies that can be pursued locally
• Accessibility to other cities that you might want to visit
• Cost of an apartment in a logistics strong neighbourhood
• Language barrier
• Enjoyability of local food
• Quality of expat population
  

Post: #730

Thanks for the reply Suits. I did do make a list but not like that, that makes much more sense, i'm pretty much going to copy paste that and see what i can come up with. Cheers

Post: #731

(07-22-2017 06:04 AM)benji Wrote:  Thanks for the reply Suits. I did do make a list but not like that, that makes much more sense, i'm pretty much going to copy paste that and see what i can come up with. Cheers

In the short term, the feelings of excitement about how interesting your life now is, that accompany a move to a new place, will be satisfactory.

Once you get outside of a one or two year window (and especially after five years), those are among the many priorities that you will have.

Eventually, when you are acutely aware of why hardworking people around the world desperately want to move to a first world nation (like Australia), you'll need good reasons not to suck it up and relocate back to a feminist hell-hole with bitchy, stuck up women.

Post: #732

What are the chances of teaching in Seoul, South Korea with an undergraduate degree and being middle eastern descent? Is it a high demand job or relatively easy to get? Thinking of going next year, I have an Australian passport and can also visit with a working holiday visa.

Would getting a TESOL or teaching certificate help chances in applying? Any help appreciated !

Also does any one have experience teaching in Seoul?

Post: #733

(07-23-2017 04:58 AM)JayD Wrote:  What are the chances of teaching in Seoul, South Korea with an undergraduate degree and being middle eastern descent? Is it a high demand job or relatively easy to get? Thinking of going next year, I have an Australian passport and can also visit with a working holiday visa.

Would getting a TESOL or teaching certificate help chances in applying? Any help appreciated !

Also does any one have experience teaching in Seoul?

How low are your standards in terms of who you'd be willing to work for?

Post: #734

(07-23-2017 04:58 AM)JayD Wrote:  What are the chances of teaching in Seoul, South Korea with an undergraduate degree and being middle eastern descent? Is it a high demand job or relatively easy to get? Thinking of going next year, I have an Australian passport and can also visit with a working holiday visa.

Would getting a TESOL or teaching certificate help chances in applying? Any help appreciated !

Also does any one have experience teaching in Seoul?

I wouldn't recommend teaching in Korea vs. other Asian countries

But depends on what you're looking for

Post: #735

(07-23-2017 06:58 AM)Suits Wrote:  How low are your standards in terms of who you'd be willing to work for?

Depends, I've researched a bit and it seems like Hagwons are the jobs that would be easier to get comparatively to a public or private institution in Seoul.
I am able to apply for other teaching jobs in Korea, but they wouldn't be based on Seoul, which is my main preference.
Better to apply online and skype interviews or to go there and apply for jobs, is what I am considering.

(07-23-2017 11:21 PM)whiteknightrises Wrote:  I wouldn't recommend teaching in Korea vs. other Asian countries

But depends on what you're looking for

I'm looking more for the travel aspect and banging SK women haha

Cheers guys

Post: #736

Don't live anywhere but Seoul if your goal is to bang girls and you're foreign

Travel could be good, not as close to say, SE Asia than if you were to live in that region but still in Asia (for instance, I think Bangkok is about 6 hours, might be wrong)

Post: #737

(07-23-2017 04:58 AM)JayD Wrote:  What are the chances of teaching in Seoul, South Korea with an undergraduate degree and being middle eastern descent? Is it a high demand job or relatively easy to get? Thinking of going next year, I have an Australian passport and can also visit with a working holiday visa.

Would getting a TESOL or teaching certificate help chances in applying? Any help appreciated !

Also does any one have experience teaching in Seoul?

Have you explored doing the CELTA?

Post: #738

CELTA seems quite expensive, is it worth it?

In terms of the travel aspect, I meant travelling to South Korea and exploring the cities around and gaming there.

Post: #739

(07-31-2017 01:30 AM)JayD Wrote:  CELTA seems quite expensive, is it worth it?

In terms of the travel aspect, I meant travelling to South Korea and exploring the cities around and gaming there.

From friends of mine who've taken it they say its recognition and overall credibility helped a lot when they looked for jobs.

Post: #740

Getting a certification is definitely worth it.

You pay like 1k USD to come out of the gate making at least 2x that a month in Asia.

Post: #741

If you are gonna teach in China, a teaching certificate is overrated IMO, especially if you have a college degree. Depending on your tolerance for the level of Chinese-ness (if your main goal is to game Chinese local girls), you can easily get 10k+RMB/month in a 2nd tier city where rent costs 2k RMB a month and as a white man you can party for free.

Even in the top tier cities like BJ and SH, with some diligence you can find gigs and earn 10k+ a month teaching part-time/freelance, one-on-one tutoring (which was what I did). Full-time jobs at schools would be tough without certification though, but I doubt many of us here are teaching English to establish a career anyway.

On a side note, based on what I hear from people who have taught in both Korea and China, China almost always wins financially or career-opportunity-wise. If you are serious about getting into the education industry in Asia, definitely go to China and avoid Korea. It gets tough to advance to any position of power/leverage in Korea if you are not Korean. But of course, if you are dead set on Korean girls, then no argument.

Post: #742

BAB, I'm gonna disagree.

Places like China are locking down on dudes showing up with no credentials and getting a free ride. It's starting in the tier-1 cities and it's going to trickle down. Just to give you an idea of how fast this is happening, when I showed up in Shenzhen I could work without really worrying about a TEFL. Now all the schools are getting wise to the dancing monkey game and they expect you to have more credentials. Sure, this is tier-1 china, but this all changed heavily in 2 years since I came here.

Essentially, even if you can work without a TEFL, I'd still shell out the $100 for a TEFL (you can get it for a mega discount on groupon) and secure yourself in China. Sure, there are always to get around regulations but at that point you are at the mercy of Chinese people not fucking you over. You do not want to be forced to work shitty jobs because you are under qualified. I know one dude (a white dude) who has been out of work for 4 months because he is totally under-qualified. Lives with his GF and her family. Welcome to hell.

For example, I had been working at a learning center for a week this summer when they tried to force me to come in on my day off. I told them "no" and they threatened to withhold my paycheck if I didn't come in. I told them to shove it and I told them don't expect to see me Monday.

They called me back later that night saying they needed me to come back because the parents and the students liked me so much.

Unbeknownst to them, within two hours of them firing me, I already had a new gig lined up through my social circle making 20% more money and working 50% of the time.

They begged and begged for me to come back, but since my credentials are in order I am not beholden to their nong bullshit. I can quit a teaching job right now and have a new one within a day.

Good luck pulling that off consistently without the right credentials. Sure, you can get lucky, but luck is a VERY weak strategy in a predatory country like China where people are grimy. Plus you're spending 100-1000 dollars to make at least 2000 plus a month consistently while working minimal hours. Just pay the cost, teach good classes and coast and roll that money into another hustle--or don't pay the cost and get chopped up by the new regulations coming down the pipe.

Gotta remember that China is a predatory place and if you open yourself up to exploitation you will get exploited.

Post: #743

(07-31-2017 07:26 AM)Fortis Wrote:  BAB, I'm gonna disagree.

Places like China are locking down on dudes showing up with no credentials and getting a free ride. It's starting in the tier-1 cities and it's going to trickle down. Just to give you an idea of how fast this is happening, when I showed up in Shenzhen I could work without really worrying about a TEFL. Now all the schools are getting wise to the dancing monkey game and they expect you to have more credentials. Sure, this is tier-1 china, but this all changed heavily in 2 years since I came here.

Essentially, even if you can work without a TEFL, I'd still shell out the $100 for a TEFL (you can get it for a mega discount on groupon) and secure yourself in China. Sure, there are always to get around regulations but at that point you are at the mercy of Chinese people not fucking you over. You do not want to be forced to work shitty jobs because you are under qualified. I know one dude (a white dude) who has been out of work for 4 months because he is totally under-qualified. Lives with his GF and her family. Welcome to hell.

For example, I had been working at a learning center for a week this summer when they tried to force me to come in on my day off. I told them "no" and they threatened to withhold my paycheck if I didn't come in. I told them to shove it and I told them don't expect to see me Monday.

They called me back later that night saying they needed me to come back because the parents and the students liked me so much.

Unbeknownst to them, within two hours of them firing me, I already had a new gig lined up through my social circle making 20% more money and working 50% of the time.

They begged and begged for me to come back, but since my credentials are in order I am not beholden to their nong bullshit. I can quit a teaching job right now and have a new one within a day.

Good luck pulling that off consistently without the right credentials. Sure, you can get lucky, but luck is a VERY weak strategy in a predatory country like China where people are grimy. Plus you're spending 100-1000 dollars to make at least 2000 plus a month consistently while working minimal hours. Just pay the cost, teach good classes and coast and roll that money into another hustle--or don't pay the cost and get chopped up by the new regulations coming down the pipe.

Isn't the fact that you can walk away from a job and into a new one so easy due to the fact that you are working without a legal z-visa supplied by your employer, which means that your qualifications are irrelevant?

I can only assume that someone that hires you in under 24 hours isn't bothering to even look at your resume nor do they care if you have a TEFL or any other piece of paper. They're just hiring you because you come recommended.

Post: #744

(07-31-2017 01:30 AM)JayD Wrote:  CELTA seems quite expensive, is it worth it?

In terms of the travel aspect, I meant travelling to South Korea and exploring the cities around and gaming there.

Definitely. It makes you look more credible. Look into the CELTA, Trinity Tefl, or SIT Tesol. CELTA is the best of all three.

Post: #745

(07-31-2017 11:12 AM)RaulValdez739 Wrote:  

(07-31-2017 01:30 AM)JayD Wrote:  CELTA seems quite expensive, is it worth it?

In terms of the travel aspect, I meant travelling to South Korea and exploring the cities around and gaming there.

Definitely. It makes you look more credible. Look into the CELTA, Trinity Tefl, or SIT Tesol. CELTA is the best of all three.

Isn't it only useful in certain markets?

Post: #746

(07-31-2017 11:15 AM)Heart Break Kid Wrote:  

(07-31-2017 11:12 AM)RaulValdez739 Wrote:  

(07-31-2017 01:30 AM)JayD Wrote:  CELTA seems quite expensive, is it worth it?

In terms of the travel aspect, I meant travelling to South Korea and exploring the cities around and gaming there.

Definitely. It makes you look more credible. Look into the CELTA, Trinity Tefl, or SIT Tesol. CELTA is the best of all three.

Isn't it only useful in certain markets?

Useful for South America, Africa, Asia, and Eastern Europe. These certifications are good to help people feel comfortable teaching in the classroom. You could always wing it but I wouldn't suggest it.

Post: #747

(07-31-2017 08:14 AM)Suits Wrote:  Isn't the fact that you can walk away from a job and into a new one so easy due to the fact that you are working without a legal z-visa supplied by your employer, which means that your qualifications are irrelevant?

I can only assume that someone that hires you in under 24 hours isn't bothering to even look at your resume nor do they care if you have a TEFL or any other piece of paper. They're just hiring you because you come recommended.

Good question:

I'll go into that more. The person who hired me is a friend of mine. She and I worked together for a year, so she knows me and knows I can teach. Had I not gone with her I had other summer job offers on the table because of my social circle. I have other friends who can hire me as well. Not to mention, I also have side hustles that ensure I'm never caught out by Chinese fuckery.

Part-time jobs are always illegal jobs. So, yeah, currently working this job to kill time since I have 2 months off and I'm still in town. I don't NEED this job so I can walk away from a week's worth of pay.

THe thing I want to point out, however, is that for a new guy showing up in Shenzhen with 0 experience and no credentials you're competing with guys who have been in the city for 2-5 years who have relationships with employers and coworkers who can beat you to the punch for the best jobs and you're left with shit jobs paying 200 rmb an hour while guys who have certs or really strong relationships are pulling down way more money than you can and beating you to the punch on all the best jobs.

I have a full-time job secured and a valid visa for the fall semester so I'm working to kill time while I wait for the semester to start. Right now, getting a good teaching job even in the t-2 cities is getting harder. The best jobs you can get tend to be public school jobs because you get paid a ton and only work 15 hours a week and international school since you get paid a ton and get real world experience.

Good luck landing those jobs against someone like me who has the certs and the experience.

Good luck landing those jobs against guys with no experience but with certs.

Fuck, good luck landing those jobs not knowing anyone in China.

Someone like suits can get away with having whatever certs he has because he doesn't work for other people. That is not easily replicable if you are a total China newb who doesn't know anyone or have any Chinese language skills.

I am reasonably comfortable in China because of my certs and I spent SO little on them. I paid like 100 dollars and took a 120 hour TEFL course and completed it in a week. They made that mandatory right after I got here. I spent 100 dollars to ensure at least standard market prices. You will make that money back in one month easily.

I'm not white, but even if you are white you should keep your credentials tight so that you are not affected by whacky chinese labor law changes and other fuckery they will throw at you.

Post: #748

As far as qualifications being irrelevant, yes and no.

Sure you could walk into a school and say "hey I'm from America. Hire me."

And they might do it.

But now might also walk into a school and say "hey I'm American. Hire me" And they'll say "cool do you have a degree, TEFL and 2-year's teaching experience?"

Those are the minimum requirements for SZ right now. Sorta steep.

This is the direction China is going in for foreign teachers on Z visas. They are tightening up significantly in tier-1 cities and it is going to trickle down to tier-2 cities like Chengdu.

I have all my reqs in order and I suggest new guys do the same or consider a more lax country.

Post: #749

Fortis, I understand what you are saying and I have seen the news about the police cracking down harder on "illegals" in Shenzhen, but I feel that SZ is a bit of an outlier with regards to that, possibly due to its close proximity to HK or the growing mish-mash of "non-Western" foreigners that reside there (legally or illegally). Another factor that makes SZ different from a Chinese perspective is that it is a new city which has a fabric consisting of migrants from all parts of China, which makes it a more level playing field but also much more chaotic at the same time. Go to cities like Shanghai or Beijing, with the "old SH" or "old BJ" stranglehold, things function in a more much orderly way, with long-established social hierarchies and relationship networks that you will almost never hear about "random" raids on schools or foreigners. I know tons of non-native foreign English teachers (Russian, Hungarian, etc.) who are teaching full-time at kindergartens without certifications or a working visa. I'd say the situation is still very much prevalent in all cities in China maybe except for SZ and perhaps GZ.

Getting a job teaching English in China is down to your hustle and willingness/way of putting yourself out there as much as anything else IMO. I am Asian and people told me that it'll be difficult to get a teaching job in China with an Asian face, but it didn't stop me. Granted, I am not some foreign high school reject with no qualification -- I have university qualifications and corporate experience which impress them (hence I mentioned that if you have a college degree you don't really need a certification). But personally, I am not teaching for the love of teaching but to pay the bills while I work on other stuff, and I simply could not make the commitment to devote 120 hours of my time to get a teaching certificate that might help me slightly.

I visited friends in a 2nd-tier city in China recently, and the demand for foreign English teachers there is unsatiable. My friend works at an HR firm hunting for foreigners to come work and live in this said city, and there were tons of teaching openings willing to do whatever it takes to land a foreigner (15k+ salary, 20h/week work, housing allowance, visa, etc.). It even made me consider moving there since I would save at least 60% on rent, but I love the Euro girls in SH too much. Of course, to a total China n00b fresh off the plane it might be hard to know where to start or where to look, and I acknowledge my slight bias due to my familiarity with China, but a quick browse on eChinacities or city-specific expat magazine sites should be more than enough to get any average foreigner started. College degree is a must though I would say, much more so than a certification.

Post: #750

I recently finished my Bachelors degree and I am looking to pursue a Masters in Special Education. I have ran a few searches but I have only found jobs in that area here and there. For those who are experienced in teaching abroad and know anything about special education jobs, would you mind throwing some knowledge my way?