Post: #576

I've recently started a new job at 21,000 RMB per month in China; hours are regular 9-5. I'm trying to take on PT work mainly at shitty training centres after my current job so I can start really stacking and saving money, but it seems employers are no longer flexible. They will not bend the rules even an inch; they want you to work their shitty little arbitrary training centre hours, or they tell you to piss off. My current employer also likes to wrap their employees around their finger; they keep us in the office most of the day, probably purposely so we cannot take on other work, even though there's a shit ton of a down time where we're mainly sitting in the office with our thumbs up our asses. My first week I barely had any classes.

I also know it will take me a very long time to find my own private students that I can teach on my off days or in the evening, if I ever do. Also, the competition in tier one cities for jobs now is getting ridiculous.

Post: #577

(09-16-2016 08:27 PM)Suits Wrote:  

(09-16-2016 07:37 PM)Half Century Wrote:  No good money unless you are in an elite international school. Great social opportunities though. I did this for a decade in Europe.

I don't work at an elite private school and I earn more money teaching English than my compatriots at elite private schools.

What are you talking about?

I was referring to SPEAKEASY's beginning of the thread: "Teaching English Abroad
Has anyone here every done this? How hard is it to find gigs? I'm giving it some consideration."

I'm talking about private language schools in Europe, South America,Turkey. You won't make much money. It is something you essentially do in your 20's to see the world, have adventures.

On the other hand, I had a relative that taught for 23 years in a fine international school in Germany,and had a nice condo, car and a pension that she still lives on today , back home in USA.
She'd already had experience teaching in public schools in the USA and a teaching credential before she got the job abroad.

Basically with the private language schools in Europe, Turkey(would not advise going there now!) , and South America, you need at least a BA degree in something, and more often the CELTA also; or in public or private high schools, a teaching credential in your own country first.

Nevertheless, I did see some working in private language schools with no university degree or any type of teaching certificate . It all depends on supply and demand for available native speaker "teachers". Personality won over methodology: I saw a lot of teachers bullshit their way through classes with no academic background, which would prove my point that a lot of language school classes are just social/entertainment value for many students, with a few serious ones thrown in who require a high level of instruction. That's where the rub is, because easy classes are often intersected with difficult ones.

For example, I heard about one teacher at my school where I was teaching in Prague, who used to bring in Fanta bottles filled with vodka and drink while teaching. Apparently he banged a few of his students also- during the semester, while they were concurrently attending his class! He kept his job, as far as I know. Suppose he just juggled his work and leisure somehow.

Another guy, I actually knew, would come to most classes hungover and just tell jokes all hour. No teaching experience or certificate , but he was really popular anyway!

Another guy , a roommate, about 35, taught at a high school in Prague. After the semester ended, or maybe actually during a school trip, he started a sexual relationship with one of the students. He is still teaching there, no problems.

In Turkey, my roommate, another American teacher at the school, started an affair with a marrried Turkish teacher. He suddenly left at spring break. Never came back.

You WILL be approaced by your female students and fellow local teachers. Christmas vacation week I had a femle student call me up, who got my number from the secretary, and she said she felt sorry that I was all alone during holidays in a foreign land- by the second date I was undressing her. The class had finished at that point, so she was no longer a current student.

Then of course, there are fellow American and British teachers. Why go abroad then?

I digress.


The Cambridge CELTA or other teaching certificate is helpful in landing a job. If you just want to go live abroad for a few years, simply a BA degree would suffice, unless they have inflated requirements since the 90's, when I was a teacher. Some just get jobs giving private lessons, with no education, experience or anything- sort of "language companions". But in that case , you'd need to be at least self-educated and prepared.

There also are a lot of Americans and British abroad doing "intercambios" for free, where they meet up with a local of the country and trade language lessons- also a good way to get a girlfriend/boyfriend.

Most of the stuff you learn in a certificate course is very basic and common sense, and could be learned within a week or two of studying and applying the knowledge. Teaching certificates are how the private and public institutions earn money and how teachers move up the employment ladder by becoming Director of Studies and instructors of teacher training courses, like CELTA, or state teaching certificates.

Post: #578

I looked into teaching in Poland, at least in smaller towns, Native English speakers are in high demand. You don't need formal training. TESL certs not required.

Pay is roughly 60 ZL per hour which is about 15 USD per hour. Not bad considering the generally lower prices in Poland. The only problem is finding consistent teaching hours. But it's not uncommon to work for multiple schools.

Post: #579

(09-18-2016 12:46 AM)Pokerbaby Wrote:  I looked into teaching in Poland, at least in smaller towns, Native English speakers are in high demand. You don't need formal training. TESL certs not required.

Pay is roughly 60 ZL per hour which is about 15 USD per hour. Not bad considering the generally lower prices in Poland. The only problem is finding consistent teaching hours. But it's not uncommon to work for multiple schools.

What's the legality of this work and the visa situation for those who do it?

Post: #580

(09-18-2016 12:46 AM)Pokerbaby Wrote:  I looked into teaching in Poland, at least in smaller towns, Native English speakers are in high demand. You don't need formal training. TESL certs not required.

Pay is roughly 60 ZL per hour which is about 15 USD per hour. Not bad considering the generally lower prices in Poland. The only problem is finding consistent teaching hours. But it's not uncommon to work for multiple schools.

I taught in Poland, '97-'98. Part of airfare reimbursed, furnished apartment for myself, salary enough to live on, taught about 3 classes a day . Got job at language school in unattractive city west of Krakow. Not a tourist city by any means. I already had several years experience, the CELTA, BA degree and two other teaching credentials.

Was pursued by a Polish teacher and a student at that school. Dated them for a while. Then met a really cute girl in a shop, about 24. She needed private lessons. Ended up living with her for a year.

Post: #581

(09-17-2016 04:41 PM)Half Century Wrote:  

(09-16-2016 08:27 PM)Suits Wrote:  

(09-16-2016 07:37 PM)Half Century Wrote:  No good money unless you are in an elite international school. Great social opportunities though. I did this for a decade in Europe.

I don't work at an elite private school and I earn more money teaching English than my compatriots at elite private schools.

What are you talking about?

I was referring to SPEAKEASY's beginning of the thread: "Teaching English Abroad
Has anyone here every done this? How hard is it to find gigs? I'm giving it some consideration."

I'm talking about private language schools in Europe, South America,Turkey. You won't make much money. It is something you essentially do in your 20's to see the world, have adventures.

On the other hand, I had a relative that taught for 23 years in a fine international school in Germany,and had a nice condo, car and a pension that she still lives on today , back home in USA.
She'd already had experience teaching in public schools in the USA and a teaching credential before she got the job abroad.

Basically with the private language schools in Europe, Turkey(would not advise going there now!) , and South America, you need at least a BA degree in something, and more often the CELTA also; or in public or private high schools, a teaching credential in your own country first.

Nevertheless, I did see some working in private language schools with no university degree or any type of teaching certificate . It all depends on supply and demand for available native speaker "teachers". Personality won over methodology: I saw a lot of teachers bullshit their way through classes with no academic background, which would prove my point that a lot of language school classes are just social/entertainment value for many students, with a few serious ones thrown in who require a high level of instruction. That's where the rub is, because easy classes are often intersected with difficult ones.

For example, I heard about one teacher at my school where I was teaching in Prague, who used to bring in Fanta bottles filled with vodka and drink while teaching. Apparently he banged a few of his students also- during the semester, while they were concurrently attending his class! He kept his job, as far as I know. Suppose he just juggled his work and leisure somehow.

Another guy, I actually knew, would come to most classes hungover and just tell jokes all hour. No teaching experience or certificate , but he was really popular anyway!

Another guy , a roommate, about 35, taught at a high school in Prague. After the semester ended, or maybe actually during a school trip, he started a sexual relationship with one of the students. He is still teaching there, no problems.

In Turkey, my roommate, another American teacher at the school, started an affair with a marrried Turkish teacher. He suddenly left at spring break. Never came back.

You WILL be approaced by your female students and fellow local teachers. Christmas vacation week I had a femle student call me up, who got my number from the secretary, and she said she felt sorry that I was all alone during holidays in a foreign land- by the second date I was undressing her. The class had finished at that point, so she was no longer a current student.

Then of course, there are fellow American and British teachers. Why go abroad then?

I digress.


The Cambridge CELTA or other teaching certificate is helpful in landing a job. If you just want to go live abroad for a few years, simply a BA degree would suffice, unless they have inflated requirements since the 90's, when I was a teacher. Some just get jobs giving private lessons, with no education, experience or anything- sort of "language companions". But in that case , you'd need to be at least self-educated and prepared.

There also are a lot of Americans and British abroad doing "intercambios" for free, where they meet up with a local of the country and trade language lessons- also a good way to get a girlfriend/boyfriend.

Most of the stuff you learn in a certificate course is very basic and common sense, and could be learned within a week or two of studying and applying the knowledge. Teaching certificates are how the private and public institutions earn money and how teachers move up the employment ladder by becoming Director of Studies and instructors of teacher training courses, like CELTA, or state teaching certificates.

There is just not that much money in teaching abroad. Sad to say. I got offered a USD $70k job abroad, but I turned it down because I wanted more. I was told people use to make more than that. I can make that in the USA, its really not a lot of money to justify uprooting myself to Asia.

Post: #582

(09-18-2016 04:02 PM)RaulValdez739 Wrote:  There is just not that much money in teaching abroad. Sad to say. I got offered a USD $70k job abroad, but I turned it down because I wanted more. I was told people use to make more than that. I can make that in the USA, its really not a lot of money to justify uprooting myself to Asia.

What would you have taught and what are your credentials?

Post: #583

(09-18-2016 04:47 PM)Mr.Wilson Wrote:  

(09-18-2016 04:02 PM)RaulValdez739 Wrote:  There is just not that much money in teaching abroad. Sad to say. I got offered a USD $70k job abroad, but I turned it down because I wanted more. I was told people use to make more than that. I can make that in the USA, its really not a lot of money to justify uprooting myself to Asia.

What would you have taught and what are your credentials?

I make a lot more than $70K USD now, and I'd still uproot for that.

1 - Superior cultural experience
2 - Less money for expenses
3 - Ability to travel within Asia
4 - More time for my own business

Part of the reason why I, and others want to teach abroad is because of the low expenses in most cases, and freedom to do your own stuff on the side, since the hours aren't typically what they are in USA/Canada etc...

Post: #584

(09-18-2016 04:47 PM)Mr.Wilson Wrote:  

(09-18-2016 04:02 PM)RaulValdez739 Wrote:  There is just not that much money in teaching abroad. Sad to say. I got offered a USD $70k job abroad, but I turned it down because I wanted more. I was told people use to make more than that. I can make that in the USA, its really not a lot of money to justify uprooting myself to Asia.

What would you have taught and what are your credentials?

I would have taught English for a military contractor. My credentials are two University degrees(including Masters) and a CELTA. I had been teaching ESL/ESP for less than 3 years when I got that offer.

Post: #585

(09-18-2016 05:06 PM)WeekendCasanova Wrote:  

(09-18-2016 04:47 PM)Mr.Wilson Wrote:  

(09-18-2016 04:02 PM)RaulValdez739 Wrote:  There is just not that much money in teaching abroad. Sad to say. I got offered a USD $70k job abroad, but I turned it down because I wanted more. I was told people use to make more than that. I can make that in the USA, its really not a lot of money to justify uprooting myself to Asia.

What would you have taught and what are your credentials?

I make a lot more than $70K USD now, and I'd still uproot for that.

1 - Superior cultural experience
2 - Less money for expenses
3 - Ability to travel within Asia
4 - More time for my own business

Part of the reason why I, and others want to teach abroad is because of the low expenses in most cases, and freedom to do your own stuff on the side, since the hours aren't typically what they are in USA/Canada etc...

All true, but I guess I am so use to the USA(NY specifically) that I couldn't make the plunge unless I got $100k/year. What do you do by the way?

Post: #586

(09-18-2016 04:47 PM)Mr.Wilson Wrote:  

(09-18-2016 04:02 PM)RaulValdez739 Wrote:  There is just not that much money in teaching abroad. Sad to say. I got offered a USD $70k job abroad, but I turned it down because I wanted more. I was told people use to make more than that. I can make that in the USA, its really not a lot of money to justify uprooting myself to Asia.

What would you have taught and what are your credentials?

Also I use to be the guy that had an optimistic outlook of the TEFL industry and thought there was a way to get the big salaries with little work. Salaries just keep going down and the people who do make the big bucks are the guys that hustle hard.

Post: #587

Yup, TEFL salaries are dropping like a sack of rocks these days, but there are still opportunities, especially if you freelance or open your own teaching center.
I would be very careful before signing a contract too, make sure you're free to move around and change employers if things don't go well!

Post: #588

(09-18-2016 04:02 PM)RaulValdez739 Wrote:  There is just not that much money in teaching abroad. Sad to say. I got offered a USD $70k job abroad, but I turned it down because I wanted more. I was told people use to make more than that. I can make that in the USA, its really not a lot of money to justify uprooting myself to Asia.

To the guys reading this thread who are now planning to teach English abroad because someone on the internet said he got offered $70K USD, go back and read the whole thread carefully from page one.

(09-18-2016 05:17 PM)RaulValdez739 Wrote:  I would have taught English for a military contractor. My credentials are two University degrees(including Masters) and a CELTA. I had been teaching ESL/ESP for less than 3 years when I got that offer.

(09-18-2016 05:20 PM)RaulValdez739 Wrote:  All true, but I guess I am so use to the USA

(09-18-2016 04:02 PM)RaulValdez739 Wrote:  I was told people use to make more than that.

Also, beware of taking guidance from credentialed, experienced English teachers who haven't mastered 'used to', a standard grammar point in any course for intermediate learners.

Post: #589

(09-19-2016 09:18 AM)ElFlaco Wrote:  

(09-18-2016 04:02 PM)RaulValdez739 Wrote:  There is just not that much money in teaching abroad. Sad to say. I got offered a USD $70k job abroad, but I turned it down because I wanted more. I was told people use to make more than that. I can make that in the USA, its really not a lot of money to justify uprooting myself to Asia.

To the guys reading this thread who are now planning to teach English abroad because someone on the internet said he got offered $70K USD, go back and read the whole thread carefully from page one.

(09-18-2016 05:17 PM)RaulValdez739 Wrote:  I would have taught English for a military contractor. My credentials are two University degrees(including Masters) and a CELTA. I had been teaching ESL/ESP for less than 3 years when I got that offer.

(09-18-2016 05:20 PM)RaulValdez739 Wrote:  All true, but I guess I am so use to the USA

(09-18-2016 04:02 PM)RaulValdez739 Wrote:  I was told people use to make more than that.

Also, beware of taking guidance from credentialed, experienced English teachers who haven't mastered 'used to', a standard grammar point in any course for intermediate learners.

RaulValdez739 has been entertaining us in this thread for some time now.

Here's an earlier conversation.

(05-10-2016 11:00 PM)Suits Wrote:  

(05-08-2016 10:32 PM)RaulValdez739 Wrote:  

(01-11-2016 11:41 PM)Suits Wrote:  

(01-05-2016 05:09 PM)tattiemasher Wrote:  I'm tempted to stop off on the way and do a CELTA somewhere cheaper like Thailand, Vietnam or Indonesia, angle for a job at the place for a year, and make the move after that. Anyone done a CELTA in places like these and know if it's easy to pick up a reasonably paid job at the end of the course?

There are no good paying jobs in the ESL industry. There are jobs that pay horribly and jobs that pay OK. The jobs that pay OK are rarely advertised and they generally recruit through their network of contacts. These jobs are rare enough that they can have their pick of the litter.

The jobs that are advertised that you can pick up when you are starting out pay terribly. They'll impose a 400% markup on what they are paying you and put 300% in their own pocket.

Getting a CELTA probably won't change this, at least in China. Even with high demand, the market is so saturated with competitors that there is an upper limit to what people will pay for English lessons. They pay teachers according to this. They do not care how good you are or how much better you are than other teachers. They will pay you no more than the losers, with or without extra qualifications.

The ESL industry is a minimum requirement industry. They aren't looking for the best teacher they can get. They have a set budget and they want they best teacher they can get while paying nothing more than standard industry salaries, which are pretty pathetic.

Here in Beijing, for a full time job, the industry standard is $36K USD annually.

$36K USD annually in Beijing is barely enough to make ends meet. And good luck paying for an emergency root canal with a dentist who actually speaks English.

Unless you live in the middle of no where, you'll be paying $7K per year to live in a tiny bedroom with two or three other people sharing the same flat. You'll pay a minimum $12K per year to have your own place that isn't substandard.

Sure, that leaves at least $24K left over, which might seem like a lot, but that has to pay for all your food, transportation costs, entertainment. You won't own a car, which is fine when you are a year or two out of university, but have fun living like a teenager when you are in your thirties. Keep in mind that just simply going out for a dinner date followed by a venue change and cocktails in Beijing is going to run you $40. If you do this with a different girl every week for a year, that's going to cost you $2000 annually. Now you are down to $22K and wonder if it's time to join Team No-Appetizers.

If you live cheaply, you could actually save a lot of cash, but you could do the same living with mom and dad for 5 years and living at McDonalds. But who wants that.

To have a comparable lifestyle to what you were used to in your home country, that type of income isn't going to cut it in Beijing. And after two or three years of "adventure" you'll be wanting to have a lifestyle comparable to the one you grew up. It's very easy to get tired of living in an apartment the looks like a jail cell.

However, if you are good at what you do and work for yourself, you could easily clear $75-$100K USD per year here if you are willing to slowly build to that over 6-18 months and work your ass off to achieve it.

There are no good paying jobs in the ESL industry.

This is false. There are jobs that pay very well but you have to be willing to search for them and have the appropriate qualifications.

Earlier when you posted in this thread, you dropped this gem:

(12-31-2015 06:14 PM)RaulValdez739 Wrote:  Is it easy to fake teaching experience on your resume when applying for overseas teaching jobs. Do recruiting agencies/companies/schools actually call to verify? Especially for Middle East positions.

Let's break this down. You're calling me misinformed, but your strategy for locking down a job is to invent a job history?

Make note of the fact that absolutely no one offered you advice after your demand for information on how to lie your way into a job.

I'll concede that there are some good paying jobs in the God-forsaken land that is the Middle East. I've talked to a lot of guys who have worked there in ESL and would not go back no matter how much money they are offered.

Japan used to pay well, but the ESL industry has suffered in the last ten years and jobs don't pay what they used to, given the high supply of potential teachers. Korea is similar and coupled with the high cost of living in Korea and Japan, you're doing OK, but not great.

SEA is cheap to live, but ESL teacher wages are accordingly low.

China pays better, but is more expensive and is a less pleasant place to live.

Europe and South America are worse than China for pay (and better for living experience).

Therefore, I'm doing potential ESL teachers a favor by telling them that the only way to make legit money in the industry is to hustle and work for yourself. Even if exceptions exist, it's not going to do 99% of guys any favours and that other 1% are the type of people that would be successful without the qualifications.

If you disagree, it's time you drop a datasheet on how you qualified your way into a good paying ESL job in a livable locale. For all we know, you have yet to lock down a good paying job in ESL and are just disagreeing with me to justify the money you dumped into qualifications.

Everyone here knows what I've done. Guys have seen my lifestyle here, so if I start exaggerating my success, I'll get called out. Why should we believe anything that you have to say? What kind of a baller lifestyle have you achieved as a "qualified" highly paid ESL teacher?

It's too bad that Raul decided that anything less than $100K per year wasn't good enough, because I think I would have enjoyed hearing the stories about what would have happened if he did go abroad.

I suspect that English isn't even his first language, which would royally piss off any employer that made the mistake of hiring him.

It's not $70K/year if the job only lasts 23 days.

Post: #590

What's wrong with making 70K teaching? That's amazing. You could probably only get that kind of salary teaching privately in China (and being very good at it) or in Qatar or something.

Post: #591

(09-19-2016 09:18 AM)ElFlaco Wrote:  

(09-18-2016 04:02 PM)RaulValdez739 Wrote:  There is just not that much money in teaching abroad. Sad to say. I got offered a USD $70k job abroad, but I turned it down because I wanted more. I was told people use to make more than that. I can make that in the USA, its really not a lot of money to justify uprooting myself to Asia.

To the guys reading this thread who are now planning to teach English abroad because someone on the internet said he got offered $70K USD, go back and read the whole thread carefully from page one.

(09-18-2016 05:17 PM)RaulValdez739 Wrote:  I would have taught English for a military contractor. My credentials are two University degrees(including Masters) and a CELTA. I had been teaching ESL/ESP for less than 3 years when I got that offer.

(09-18-2016 05:20 PM)RaulValdez739 Wrote:  All true, but I guess I am so use to the USA

(09-18-2016 04:02 PM)RaulValdez739 Wrote:  I was told people use to make more than that.

Also, beware of taking guidance from credentialed, experienced English teachers who haven't mastered 'used to', a standard grammar point in any course for intermediate learners.

Thank you Mr. English Nazi. I definitely check my writing before I post on an online forum. I need to start treating it like I'm presenting a paper at a conference.

Post: #592

(09-19-2016 09:43 AM)Suits Wrote:  

(09-19-2016 09:18 AM)ElFlaco Wrote:  

(09-18-2016 04:02 PM)RaulValdez739 Wrote:  There is just not that much money in teaching abroad. Sad to say. I got offered a USD $70k job abroad, but I turned it down because I wanted more. I was told people use to make more than that. I can make that in the USA, its really not a lot of money to justify uprooting myself to Asia.

To the guys reading this thread who are now planning to teach English abroad because someone on the internet said he got offered $70K USD, go back and read the whole thread carefully from page one.

(09-18-2016 05:17 PM)RaulValdez739 Wrote:  I would have taught English for a military contractor. My credentials are two University degrees(including Masters) and a CELTA. I had been teaching ESL/ESP for less than 3 years when I got that offer.

(09-18-2016 05:20 PM)RaulValdez739 Wrote:  All true, but I guess I am so use to the USA

(09-18-2016 04:02 PM)RaulValdez739 Wrote:  I was told people use to make more than that.

Also, beware of taking guidance from credentialed, experienced English teachers who haven't mastered 'used to', a standard grammar point in any course for intermediate learners.

RaulValdez739 has been entertaining us in this thread for some time now.

Here's an earlier conversation.

(05-10-2016 11:00 PM)Suits Wrote:  

(05-08-2016 10:32 PM)RaulValdez739 Wrote:  

(01-11-2016 11:41 PM)Suits Wrote:  

(01-05-2016 05:09 PM)tattiemasher Wrote:  I'm tempted to stop off on the way and do a CELTA somewhere cheaper like Thailand, Vietnam or Indonesia, angle for a job at the place for a year, and make the move after that. Anyone done a CELTA in places like these and know if it's easy to pick up a reasonably paid job at the end of the course?

There are no good paying jobs in the ESL industry. There are jobs that pay horribly and jobs that pay OK. The jobs that pay OK are rarely advertised and they generally recruit through their network of contacts. These jobs are rare enough that they can have their pick of the litter.

The jobs that are advertised that you can pick up when you are starting out pay terribly. They'll impose a 400% markup on what they are paying you and put 300% in their own pocket.

Getting a CELTA probably won't change this, at least in China. Even with high demand, the market is so saturated with competitors that there is an upper limit to what people will pay for English lessons. They pay teachers according to this. They do not care how good you are or how much better you are than other teachers. They will pay you no more than the losers, with or without extra qualifications.

The ESL industry is a minimum requirement industry. They aren't looking for the best teacher they can get. They have a set budget and they want they best teacher they can get while paying nothing more than standard industry salaries, which are pretty pathetic.

Here in Beijing, for a full time job, the industry standard is $36K USD annually.

$36K USD annually in Beijing is barely enough to make ends meet. And good luck paying for an emergency root canal with a dentist who actually speaks English.

Unless you live in the middle of no where, you'll be paying $7K per year to live in a tiny bedroom with two or three other people sharing the same flat. You'll pay a minimum $12K per year to have your own place that isn't substandard.

Sure, that leaves at least $24K left over, which might seem like a lot, but that has to pay for all your food, transportation costs, entertainment. You won't own a car, which is fine when you are a year or two out of university, but have fun living like a teenager when you are in your thirties. Keep in mind that just simply going out for a dinner date followed by a venue change and cocktails in Beijing is going to run you $40. If you do this with a different girl every week for a year, that's going to cost you $2000 annually. Now you are down to $22K and wonder if it's time to join Team No-Appetizers.

If you live cheaply, you could actually save a lot of cash, but you could do the same living with mom and dad for 5 years and living at McDonalds. But who wants that.

To have a comparable lifestyle to what you were used to in your home country, that type of income isn't going to cut it in Beijing. And after two or three years of "adventure" you'll be wanting to have a lifestyle comparable to the one you grew up. It's very easy to get tired of living in an apartment the looks like a jail cell.

However, if you are good at what you do and work for yourself, you could easily clear $75-$100K USD per year here if you are willing to slowly build to that over 6-18 months and work your ass off to achieve it.

There are no good paying jobs in the ESL industry.

This is false. There are jobs that pay very well but you have to be willing to search for them and have the appropriate qualifications.

Earlier when you posted in this thread, you dropped this gem:

(12-31-2015 06:14 PM)RaulValdez739 Wrote:  Is it easy to fake teaching experience on your resume when applying for overseas teaching jobs. Do recruiting agencies/companies/schools actually call to verify? Especially for Middle East positions.

Let's break this down. You're calling me misinformed, but your strategy for locking down a job is to invent a job history?

Make note of the fact that absolutely no one offered you advice after your demand for information on how to lie your way into a job.

I'll concede that there are some good paying jobs in the God-forsaken land that is the Middle East. I've talked to a lot of guys who have worked there in ESL and would not go back no matter how much money they are offered.

Japan used to pay well, but the ESL industry has suffered in the last ten years and jobs don't pay what they used to, given the high supply of potential teachers. Korea is similar and coupled with the high cost of living in Korea and Japan, you're doing OK, but not great.

SEA is cheap to live, but ESL teacher wages are accordingly low.

China pays better, but is more expensive and is a less pleasant place to live.

Europe and South America are worse than China for pay (and better for living experience).

Therefore, I'm doing potential ESL teachers a favor by telling them that the only way to make legit money in the industry is to hustle and work for yourself. Even if exceptions exist, it's not going to do 99% of guys any favours and that other 1% are the type of people that would be successful without the qualifications.

If you disagree, it's time you drop a datasheet on how you qualified your way into a good paying ESL job in a livable locale. For all we know, you have yet to lock down a good paying job in ESL and are just disagreeing with me to justify the money you dumped into qualifications.

Everyone here knows what I've done. Guys have seen my lifestyle here, so if I start exaggerating my success, I'll get called out. Why should we believe anything that you have to say? What kind of a baller lifestyle have you achieved as a "qualified" highly paid ESL teacher?

It's too bad that Raul decided that anything less than $100K per year wasn't good enough, because I think I would have enjoyed hearing the stories about what would have happened if he did go abroad.

I suspect that English isn't even his first language, which would royally piss off any employer that made the mistake of hiring him.

It's not $70K/year if the job only lasts 23 days.

Don't be a hater Suits. One day you'll make something of yourself.

Post: #593

(09-18-2016 05:20 PM)RaulValdez739 Wrote:  

(09-18-2016 05:06 PM)WeekendCasanova Wrote:  

(09-18-2016 04:47 PM)Mr.Wilson Wrote:  

(09-18-2016 04:02 PM)RaulValdez739 Wrote:  There is just not that much money in teaching abroad. Sad to say. I got offered a USD $70k job abroad, but I turned it down because I wanted more. I was told people use to make more than that. I can make that in the USA, its really not a lot of money to justify uprooting myself to Asia.

What would you have taught and what are your credentials?

I make a lot more than $70K USD now, and I'd still uproot for that.

1 - Superior cultural experience
2 - Less money for expenses
3 - Ability to travel within Asia
4 - More time for my own business

Part of the reason why I, and others want to teach abroad is because of the low expenses in most cases, and freedom to do your own stuff on the side, since the hours aren't typically what they are in USA/Canada etc...

All true, but I guess I am so use to the USA(NY specifically) that I couldn't make the plunge unless I got $100k/year. What do you do by the way?

I'm in Toronto - I understand high prices...I'm in investment banking, so giving up the life of luxury isn't easy, but I'd still do it for $70K abroad.

Just my personal opinion, I suppose. I'm over the drone life though. I'd take a 60%+ reduction in salary so long as I could live a somewhat similar lifestyle in a cheaper country, no problem. My body and mind would thank me.

Post: #594

(09-19-2016 10:43 AM)RaulValdez739 Wrote:  

(09-19-2016 09:18 AM)ElFlaco Wrote:  Also, beware of taking guidance from credentialed, experienced English teachers who haven't mastered 'used to', a standard grammar point in any course for intermediate learners.

Thank you Mr. English Nazi. I definitely check my writing before I post on an online forum. I need to start treating it like I'm presenting a paper at a conference.

Everyone makes typos -- that's normal -- but your errors here are systematic. That suggests that you are not actually what you present yourself to be: a credentialed, experienced English teacher receiving top dollar offers. Hopefully others who are new to this thread can see that.

Post: #595

(09-19-2016 11:01 AM)ElFlaco Wrote:  

(09-19-2016 10:43 AM)RaulValdez739 Wrote:  

(09-19-2016 09:18 AM)ElFlaco Wrote:  Also, beware of taking guidance from credentialed, experienced English teachers who haven't mastered 'used to', a standard grammar point in any course for intermediate learners.

Thank you Mr. English Nazi. I definitely check my writing before I post on an online forum. I need to start treating it like I'm presenting a paper at a conference.

Everyone makes typos -- that's normal -- but your errors here are systematic. That suggests that you are not actually what you present yourself to be: a credentialed, experienced English teacher receiving top dollar offers. Hopefully others who are new to this thread can see that.

Dude, I can show you my credentials via email, its not that serious of an issue. Relax ElFlaco. I did get a 70k offer and everything I say is true. Don't crucify me because I wrote poorly on an online forum. I rarely proofread dude.

Post: #596

(09-18-2016 01:06 AM)Suits Wrote:  

(09-18-2016 12:46 AM)Pokerbaby Wrote:  I looked into teaching in Poland, at least in smaller towns, Native English speakers are in high demand. You don't need formal training. TESL certs not required.

Pay is roughly 60 ZL per hour which is about 15 USD per hour. Not bad considering the generally lower prices in Poland. The only problem is finding consistent teaching hours. But it's not uncommon to work for multiple schools.

What's the legality of this work and the visa situation for those who do it?

They are private schools. There is no problem dating any students at a private school. Teaching in a public school is a different story.

These companies will not assist you in the process of applying for a Visa. All they do is provide a letter stating that you are seeking employment with their scholl which can be provided with your visa application. They won't aid in the cost of a Visa as well.


Interestingly, they prefer if you don't actually speak any Polish. The problem of being bilingual is that once student find out you can speak Polish they will often resort to using Polish to ask questions, thereby slowing their progress.

Post: #597

(09-19-2016 11:31 AM)Pokerbaby Wrote:  

(09-18-2016 01:06 AM)Suits Wrote:  

(09-18-2016 12:46 AM)Pokerbaby Wrote:  I looked into teaching in Poland, at least in smaller towns, Native English speakers are in high demand. You don't need formal training. TESL certs not required.

Pay is roughly 60 ZL per hour which is about 15 USD per hour. Not bad considering the generally lower prices in Poland. The only problem is finding consistent teaching hours. But it's not uncommon to work for multiple schools.

What's the legality of this work and the visa situation for those who do it?

They are private schools. There is no problem dating any students at a private school. Teaching in a public school is a different story.

These companies will not assist you in the process of applying for a Visa. All they do is provide a letter stating that you are seeking employment with their scholl which can be provided with your visa application. They won't aid in the cost of a Visa as well.


Interestingly, they prefer if you don't actually speak any Polish. The problem of being bilingual is that once student find out you can speak Polish they will often resort to using Polish to ask questions, thereby slowing their progress.

This is actually a pretty common problem.

A few years ago during University, I applied to teach English during the summer in France. They offered me the job, but then I mistakingly said that I'm fluent in French, so they revoked the offer.

Same problem - if the students find out you can speak their language, they'll become lazy.

Post: #598

(09-19-2016 11:33 AM)WeekendCasanova Wrote:  Same problem - if the students find out you can speak their language, they'll become lazy.

I just pretend not to understand them. They get the idea and are forced to get their idea across using the English they have. You can do the same thing with cohesion errors within their English. 'John quit her job.' Her? Her job? (stressing 'her', confused face)

In terms of teaching quality, it's actually an advantage to understand the student's native language, assuming it's a homogeneous group. You can anticipate their problems and plan accordingly. None of that necessarily involves using their native language in the classroom. Unfortunately, not all students and administrators/directors are familiar with this idea. If you're doing your own marketing, you can turn this bilingual 'liability' into a selling point. In other situations, it can work against you, as you say.

Post: #599

(09-16-2016 09:00 PM)TheBoom Wrote:  Long thread so someone may have already noted these points but:

1. If you want to teach ESL take a look at Taiwan. Much nicer to live here than in the PRC. Less pollution, better food sources, far better medical, people are friendlier, lots of attractive young women. Top tier cities in China though are culturally more vibrant and international. Relatively easy to get a job teaching English outside of Taipei. With some experience you can move into Taipei but you might be able to find a job in Taipei right off the bat. English teaching jobs pay better here on average than they do in China but they usually don't include accommodation, as far as I know. Teachers I know outside of Taipei save around 1000 USD a month. Given COL differences, that is the equivalence of saving 3K in the US. Not a lot but teaching for the most part isn't a get rich scheme. Have to keep in mind that if you want to move back to the US eventually you'll be behind the curve on savings but OK if you stay outside the country.

2. In general, ESL teachers are the migrant day labor of the teaching and training professions. At least 80% of the time they are just viewed as an interchangeable commodity that can easily be replaced. Best to use ESL as a springboard into some other training or some other work. Some teachers go freelance, as some have noted here, some move into management or sales positions that pay better then transfer to non ESL companies and make more money. However, some get nice, easy gigs at universities and stay there long-term.

I'd very much appreciate a more detailed expansion of this post.

In particular, I'd love to know more about the following:

Comparisons between the internationalization and vibrancy of specific cities in the Mainland and specific cities in Taiwan.

An outline of the visa situation in Taiwan. Can long term visas only be acquired outside of Taiwan as it is the case in Mainland China or can you be issued a work visa after arriving on a tourist visa without being required to make a trip home?

How easy is it easy to maintain a visa if you are freelancing? What is the likelihood of being busted for working on a non-work visa and fined/deported?

How well do jobs pay in Taipei and elsewhere?

Post: #600

About long-term visas, I don't know the situation in Taiwan, but, in most countries of the world, the -usually- best solution is, registering a local company for like, 200 usd or this kind of initial operative costs, then auto-hiring (designating) yourself as the president of said company... it enables easy business-visas attribution, considering that you are the one writing your own business invitation letter to yourself.
I don't know of any easier way. Best way for Argentinean business long-term visas for example. Probably, such a (legal) solution exists in almost all countries.