Post: #1

The quality of discussion on RVF has gone downhill recently because certain members (usually well-repped, veteran members who got their reputation from their politics, SJW, feminism threads) keep hijacking the discussion with personal attacks on either the OP or a random replier, steering it off topic then not letting it go even once they have said their piece. At this point, other well meaning posters jump in to defend either side and the original topic of discussion is totally lost.

How can we prevent this and be more respectful to fellow members and keep the posts on topic? If a new member came on and posted like that, they would be banned straight away. It's ironic that these members get their clout on RVF for bashing feminism but are more bitchy than Jezebel.

Post: #2

I've thought about this, the last few days especially, and it seems like everyone that shows up with a new opinion, or seemingly "fantastical or incredible" views, are labeled: NASA Test Pilot or Indian Race Troll.

The thing dudes on the forum can't wrap their heads around is: incredible people do exist. They're out there. They're not you, but they're there.

I don't have the solution for this. I've thought about it-- A LOT and wanted to make a thread, but I didn't want to be executed by a court of "Public Opinion."

But, thank you for pointing out this problem. It's fucked up. Something needs to change.

Post: #3

There's one option.

Political discussions may occur, but only the moderation team can see who wrote what. To everyone else, political discussions would be entirely anonymous. No one would gain rep for political posts. You'd have to gain rep (both formal and informal) by actually meeting members, providing value on and off the forum and by developing meaningful relationships of respect through Skype/instant messenger/phone calls/etc.

Let the political discussions occur, but require that such posts exist on their own merit.

Post: #4

Great food for thought. In-fighting has been one of the leading causes of demise among many great organizations (ie. political, business, music, etc.) throughout history. Obviously most of the folks in this forum besides the occasional troll has been initially drawn to the forum due to some sort of shared goal or commonality. The forum has evolved a bit though in which it has multiple objectives & viewpoints IMO. It's clearly much bigger than just a Game forum now.

Post: #5

I think the quality of discussion is world class on this board.

Some guys may resent the top posters with political and social cred only, but I think without the top notch political discussions and social analysis this board would just be a run of the mill game forum, below average fitness forum, average crypto forum and middling to decent philosophy forum. The quality of the travel forum would decline too because the perspective of writing would change from that of a modern renaissance man to the low lives you see at other travel forums.

The nerdy socio-political discussion filter out a lot of men with lower education and intelligence. Ban politics and overall quality of the board drops.

And I've seen what some threads from 2011 read like. Sounds like posts back then were written by a bunch of 19 year olds.

Maybe it's the nostalgia talking for some guys but I'm loving this place.

Post: #6

(06-25-2018 01:23 AM)jordypip23 Wrote:  Great food for thought. In-fighting has been one of the leading causes of demise among many great organizations (ie. political, business, music, etc.) throughout history. Obviously most of the folks in this forum besides the occasional troll has been initially drawn to the forum due to some sort of shared goal or commonality. The forum has evolved a bit though in which it has multiple objectives & viewpoints IMO. It's clearly much bigger than just a Game forum now.

It started a Game and Travel forum. Look at it now.

The Game section is a bunch of thirsty simps begging how to "make this guuurl like me."

It's fucked up. The politics and crypto things have changed the forum completely. If that's the way things are going, then so be it. But it sucks to have been here a long time ago and now we have what we have today.

I'm former military and the rule is: you don't complain about shit unless you have a solution. I don't have one in this case, but I think Suits is going in a good direction.

Post: #7

I joined this forum because I saw a particular thread in the Travel section that interested me. Just a cursory reading of these EE and Politics section, however, has showed me how deeply this forum has been inundated with reactionary alt-right bullshit. It seems to have started as a general honest/politically incorrect/shoot the shit type environment, and is in the process of degenerating in to /pol. From what I can tell, it wasn't always like this -- I know a couple ex-posters on the forum who tell me that discussion here used to be a lot more levelheaded.

Alt-righters, white nationalists, and the like tend to be incredibly negative, petty, and easily triggered. It's no wonder that their increased presence on the forum has led to the quality of discourse being run through the gutter. Guys like this are quick to label any opposition to their views as being "anti-white" or "SJW" -- in the same way a radical libtard would label any opposition to their views as being "transphobic" or "fascist". Obviously a preponderance of these kinds of people is going to run the quality of discourse through the gutter. Some of these guys are putting out nine or ten posts of race-baiting bullshit every single day -- it's no wonder this causes beefs on a regular basis.

As to how to fix this, I have no idea -- if that's the composition of the forum going forward, so be it. But it's also a given that this will cause constant conflict and negativity, as it currently is doing.

Post: #8

Just do not do beef.

If someone doesn’t meet the standards, don’t reply.

If there’s too much beef on the forum, leave.

If there’s a poster you want t o meet, PM them.

We do not own the forum. So we are not in charge. The leadership makes the decisions.

Discussions about change have proved to be wasted effort in the past and will be so in the future, because the owner / mods have already made up their mind.

And that is their good right.

Post: #9

It's true the mods deliberately cultivate the forum culture, so there's not much to be done. But perhaps they could police the stroppy politics posters lest they see an exodus of game and travel posters entirely.

Post: #10

IMO, the Politics and Deep forum could stand to be members-only, first of all.

Also, potentially raise the post threshold for them and make it built into the system.

But beef is beef, and if people want to take things personally or be jerks I say let them. It only reflects poorly on them.

Post: #11

(06-25-2018 01:52 AM)asdfk Wrote:  Snip

Yes, you're right. It's the control of the forum owner to censor people.

But, there's an understanding that exists that when you create something like we have, people of all pretenses are going to appear, right?

You've created something bigger than you expected. That's obvious. But, to me, at least, the obvious conclusion is: let the boys be boys.

Go ahead. Duke it out.

But, why are people arguing politics here? Why am I walking on eggshells? I don't get to say my opinion that you don't agree with? It's the effectuation of the exact thing the forum opposes.

Post: #12

(06-25-2018 01:35 AM)Bastard Sword Wrote:  I joined this forum because I saw a particular thread in the Travel section that interested me. Just a cursory reading of these EE and Politics section, however, has showed me how deeply this forum has been inundated with reactionary alt-right bullshit. It seems to have started as a general honest/politically incorrect/shoot the shit type environment, and is in the process of degenerating in to /pol. From what I can tell, it wasn't always like this -- I know a couple ex-posters on the forum who tell me that discussion here used to be a lot more levelheaded.

Alt-righters, white nationalists, and the like tend to be incredibly negative, petty, and easily triggered. It's no wonder that their increased presence on the forum has led to the quality of discourse being run through the gutter. Guys like this are quick to label any opposition to their views as being "anti-white" or "SJW" -- in the same way a radical libtard would label any opposition to their views as being "transphobic" or "fascist". Obviously a preponderance of these kinds of people is going to run the quality of discourse through the gutter. Some of these guys are putting out nine or ten posts of race-baiting bullshit every single day -- it's no wonder this causes beefs on a regular basis.

As to how to fix this, I have no idea -- if that's the composition of the forum going forward, so be it. But it's also a given that this will cause constant conflict and negativity, as it currently is doing.

Looking back at history, it is starting to make a bit more sense now. I'm one of the guys that has been reading the forum since the early days. Signed up a couple years later. Anyhow, I think the turning point occurred as soon as the feminist groups & government organizations decided to label Roosh as a rapist & a creator of hate speech. After that point, Roosh had no choice but to become more political I'm sure.

Fast forward a few years and it is well documented that Roosh had a few allies within the Alt-Right organization such as Richard Spencer, Paul Ramsey, Matt Forney, etc. But soon it became apparent that many others within the organization (a lot of them lower tier card carriers) hated Roosh's guts as well (labeling him a rapist and/or pointing at his ethnic background). And then you see Roosh distance himself from that organization although he has no problem with most of the leadership there & supports their right to free speech.

And as far as the Political section we get a variety of viewpoints. I live in America (like you), so my perspective is quite a bit different than some of the guys posting from Europe. But in any case, I think what some of the guys are getting at is that they want to see Western culture preserved as well as the freedom to be ethnocentric if they so wish. Once the immigration levels gets to a frenzied level & you have folks coming in with no desire to assimilate, it changes the entire face of the country. Standards of living may decline in some of these pockets. And yes, the vast majority of these folks are going to vote liberal for obvious reasons. And then the process simply accelerates.

I think I have described a lot of what has happened in a nutshell, but maybe others have other viewpoints or can elaborate even better.

Post: #13

(06-25-2018 01:31 AM)Dulceácido Wrote:  The Game section is a bunch of thirsty simps begging how to "make this guuurl like me."

Hahahah. Almost can't blame some of the youngsters in there with little to no experience coming from an incel / feminist generation. There is an age / experience gap on this board.

Post: #14

The message is more important than the messenger.

Not inclined to be too fussed about intra forum angst. More inclined to ignore it.
All the same, not really inclined to get all that fussed about particular individuals.

Perhaps we need another meme war to refocus. Oh look at that. The U.S. Congress / Senate elections are not far off.

Post: #15

What do you millennial not understand?

This forum is not a democracy. Get over it.

Post: #16

I think the only thing that should be done is the stronger enforcement of the "Be beta on the forum" rule. There are many cases where people either get carried away or intentionally behave in a needlessly rude way.

People are perfectly capable of writing crap to each other over game and travel as well, I strongly doubt that politics and crypto have something to do with it.

That said, this forum is still miles above anything else on the internet. If you don't believe me... well, go visit any other forum, comment section, organization, etc... they're all complete shitshows.

Post: #17

(06-25-2018 02:41 AM)Handsome Creepy Eel Wrote:  I think the only thing that should be done is the stronger enforcement of the "Be beta on the forum" rule. There are many cases where people either get carried away or intentionally behave in a needlessly rude way.
People are perfectly capable of writing crap to each other over game and travel as well, I strongly doubt that politics and crypto have something to do with it.
That said, this forum is still miles above anything else on the internet. If you don't believe me... well, go visit any other forum, comment section, organization, etc... they're all complete shitshows.

Now that the Joe Rogan forum has been taken down, the very same community has had the chance to renew their antics on the Standing69 forum.

An absolute wild west of an internet forum. Best only joined by those with thick skins & quick wit. Plenty of trolling & mockery for all.

Post: #18

The forum is fine. The only section that has declined is the travel and thats because we no longer have the legendary trips complete with pictures like the obes by ali, fisto, linux etc. Too many privacy concerns for people to post threads like those anymore. People beef because theres a lot of bullshit no different than anywhere. I have no idea what all these political terminology I saw posted by a guy above like alt right and SJW mean. Frankly I dont care either. Read the sections and posts that interest you and avoid the stuff that doesnt.

Post: #19

One thing that has disturbed me is seeing many highly respected forum members shouting down their own brothers to defend trolls who are trying to subvert our website. The thing to remember about RVF is that this is a very special website. I've been a member of several forums throughout my lifetime and this is one of the few forums that has not been overrun by trolls and charlatans. If we want to keep it that way it takes hard work on the part of all of us. It's not just about the mods, it's also about the average member being righteous enough to call BS on any pretenders.

This means that sometimes, even if we really want to believe that there is a 35-year-old man out there who has enough experiences across several industries to cover several lifetimes, we have to silence that very human desire to want to believe that if the stars did truly align then these people might exist and not be full of shit.

I was a bit disappointed and astounded watching the hoops that extremely respectable guys were jumping through in order to find NOLATestPilot's deception acceptable. Let's just be real here, it's not acceptable to make ridiculous claims and not back it up.

Don't get me wrong.

I get that we have some very accomplished men on this site. I have actually been privileged enough to meet some of these men, but the very important fact is that none of these guys really draw much attention to themselves. It just doesn't make much sense to whine about personal safety and then say things that make the RVF look at you sideways. That's sneaky, manipulative bullshit.

NTP was caught in some lies. You can call them exaggeration or whatever you want, but great power comes with great responsibility and these guys tarnished their own legacies with their bullshit--assuming that they were even telling the truth in the first place.

It's very simple for me. If you claim to be a big dog and you cannot provide proof or keep up with the RVF Inquisition then I'm going to assume you're full of shit.

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. I don't care if you are afraid of getting doxxed. If you're afraid of getting doxxed then do not say shit so ridiculous that we now need to know your professional lineage to feel comfortable listening to you. That is your own damn fault if you put yourself in that position, no one else's.

I'm actually not too upset with the political posters. I used to dislike them, but i've found my happy medium on RVF. I do not fuck with certain guys and they don't fuck with me and we live harmoniously. Some forum members do not know better than to bite off more than they can chew and they end up at the heart of internecine beefs and get punished for it.

Honestly, I'm a little surprised that guys are bothered by the little arguments. I've been lurking since 2013 and joined in 2014 and there has always been beef. Trust me on that. There has never been a time on this forum where guys were not fighting. We are men and we have our differences, but the important thing is that the RVF is always able to bounce back to some sort of equilibrium.

Don't let the beefs shake your confidence in RVF if anything be grateful that this is a forum where we do not let people get away with bullshit. Doesn't matter how much rep you have or don't have. NTP learned that and so have many other supposed badasses.

When the beef stops happening, that means RVF is no longer a quality forum.

Post: #20

Yeah, Cool story!
I'll kneel down and suck the dick of Donald Trump, then hate Jews, Blacks, Indians.....
If anyone discredits me, I'll call them a "troll." Then laugh my ass off because I just destroyed someones credibility, for which I have none whatsoever, just an internet ninja....

Does anyone not see a problem with this? This is so fucked up. What this has devolved into is so wrong.

Post: #21

Dulce, I never said you had to do any of those things.

I'm Black, not a trump supporter (or hater), and I'm ambivalent on all races, yet I'm still allowed to participate in many contentious threads without any push back.

I could list out at least 50 dudes with 20+ rep who aren't racist or fond of Trump on this forum. I won't bother since I don't have time, but I could do that for you if you like.

You and I are boys, so I'm not sure why you're trying to paint me with toxic, broad brushstrokes.

Nola and NTP were both caught lying about their achievements. Doesn't that warrant the title of "troll?"

Mind explaining your side a bit more? I do agree that not everyone who claims big things is a troll, but NOLA and NTP were both caught in lies, so I'm not backing down on their classification.

As far as beef goes: "don't start no shit, won't be no shit."

Guys like the King of Belgrade have difficulty understanding this rule and they get clobbered for it.

Post: #22

I think you're over-reacting mate.

The Jew stuff is tiresome, for sure, but it isn't all bad.

Post: #23

Post: #24

(06-25-2018 02:53 AM)lavidaloca Wrote:  Frankly I dont care either. Read the sections and posts that interest you and avoid the stuff that doesnt.

That's what I do but the political posters feel the need to carry their toxic discussions over into the other threads and derail them.

I think that the best first course of action would be to ban mentioning race in unrelated threads. Specifically attacking other forum members for being of a certain nationality/race/religion should be banned and enforced.

Also, I think travel forum posters should be more vigilant about letting non-well traveled posters bring negativity into the travel threads. It is subtle and not that noticeable on the surface but I think a lot of the good travel posters have stopped posting because the frustrated guys sitting in USA or UK (or even EE fans) come in shitting on the guys in SEA and LA threads. They seem to be well intentioned and know what they're talking about but if you look into them, they haven't actually traveled and don't know anything about the places that they are blasting.

Post: #25

I thought the arguments were part of the fun. Arguing and conflict are part of life.

I was especially enjoying the beef in the HCE troubles thread in the private lounge last night.