Post: #276

Not that I believe that this is a false flag attack. I'm inclined to believe it isn't. But so far the argument put forward for the case that it is not has been little more than: it doesn't have to be staged, it doesn't require professionals, amateurs can also do it, sometimes politicians are just lucky. I.e, it's not necessarily a false flag attack, it's possible for this to be a mere accident but well taken advantage of. I don't think that's ground for claiming certainty. Just saying.

(I think here and so far the force behind taking either ground is largely emotional, dispositional and intuitive in nature. The arguments come after. We too easily underestimate the influence of our own biases.)

Post: #277

(07-08-2016 08:56 AM)realologist Wrote:  I hate threads like this. Even in a place such as the forum with such high standards people still try fit tragedies into their agenda whether it's conspiracy theory, anti-gun, anti-police, pro-police, segregation, integration, etc. There are rare voices of reason even here.

All the events that transpired recently were tragedies. Some could have been prevented some not. Either way it does not help when people stir the pot at already diminishing police and racial relations. This is a time for AMERICANS to come together, recognize the problem and fix it.

Don't wait for the politicians.
Don't wait for the media.

Come together as a neighborhood, community, city and fix your problems there. If you do that it will lead to stronger, safer and better communities which will lead to stronger, safer and better states and country.

That's the most pie-in-the-sky thing I've ever read on this forum.

Post: #278

(07-08-2016 09:03 AM)Liberty Sea Wrote:  Not that I believe that this is a false flag attack. I'm inclined to believe it isn't. But so far the argument put forward for the case that it is not has been little more than: it doesn't have to be staged, it doesn't require professionals, amateurs can also do it, sometimes politicians are just lucky. I.e, it's not necessarily a false flag attack, it's possible for this to be a mere accident but well taken advantage of. I don't think that's ground for claiming certainty. Just saying.

I think the force behind taking either ground is largely emotional and intuitive in nature. The arguments come after, little more than post hoc rationalization.

Given what we know about BLM and it's financial backers and organizers, it is highly suspect.

Post: #279

Right, this is actually driving me mad. My ability to make rounded arguments is being affected by my overwhelming desire to mash at my keyboard in frustration.

Leaving aside the primary argument against the false flag thing, which is still that it is patently fucking absurd and contrary to good sense and real life as we all live it:

Governments do not 'motivate' their own citizens to start firing off high calibre rifles in public places. They especially do not 'motivate' people who are likely to be arrested, interrogated, and who will then spill the beans to mitigate the charges against them.

The chain of people who would need to know about an operation like this - an operation designed to kill police officers - would be relatively extensive. In a chain that size, things get leaked, someone has a crisis of conscience, etc etc. This is not how operations are conducted by intelligence agencies, or indeed by the military. Things are not left up to chance in the way that some here are suggesting. If something this badly planned and executed were carried out by an intelligence agency, then the truth behind the event would come out in 5 seconds flat, and the entire world of espionage would be running rings around the US, which for all the weaknesses of the system, it is not.

If, hypothetically, 'the government' were to do something like this, they would either make sure that the shooters were all killed before they could be taken into custody, so that noone could reveal the true dastardly nature of the thing, or they would use SF types who could carry out the attack and get away without leaving any identifiable clues.

If SF guys were to do something like this - attack unsuspecting police, at a crowded public event which is a nightmare to police at the best of times, then there would be a lot more than 5 dead policemen. A 4 man SF team with the advantage of surprise would go through an entire police department before SWAT or anyone else could get there.

In such a scenario, the government, and in particular those individuals (and the President would have to be one of them) who would need to have authorised such a thing would then have to spend the rest of their lives looking over their shoulders worried about what happens if one of their hitmen has a crisis of conscience. No soldier (or civilian) would carry out an act like that without serious assurances (think signed letter of absolution from the President himself, with a smiley photo of him signing it and flashing a thumbs up) that they would be absolved.

The whole fucking thing is just so silly, and doesn't stand up to even the most cursory scrutiny.

Please choose reason where it is available to you.

Post: #280

Quote:The chain of people who would need to know about an operation like this - an operation designed to kill police officers - would be relatively extensive. In a chain that size, things get leaked, someone has a crisis of conscience, etc etc. This is not how operations are conducted by intelligence agencies, or indeed by the military. Things are not left up to chance in the way that some here are suggesting. If something this badly planned and executed were carried out by an intelligence agency, then the truth behind the event would come out in 5 seconds flat, and the entire world of espionage would be running rings around the US, which for all the weaknesses of the system, it is not.

Dallas PD was knee deep in the Kennedy assasination and those killed were Bart cops not DPD. Just making note. There only needs to be a small handful of elites at the top, everyone else is just collateral damage. Many covert ops go belly up and many false falgs get discovered and exposed later. It is not all that far fetched especially when the "good" side is also funding the "bad" side as in The Newburg Sting debacle.

Post: #281

(07-08-2016 09:12 AM)AboveAverageJoe Wrote:  Dallas PD was knee deep in the Kennedy assasination and those killed were Bart cops not DPD. Just making note.

Just making note, it was 4 Dallas PD and one rapid tranisit cop that were killed.

Post: #282

So this dude wasn't even the shooter.

Post: #283

(07-08-2016 09:00 AM)BassPlayaYo Wrote:  I fail to see how someone killing police equates to starting a "Race War". Can someone help me with the thinking behind this?

The idea is that police react to this shooting by cracking down on black lives matter protests and traffic stops in the ghetto. This then creates more "police brutality" events and videos, which then enrages more black people, which creates more baltimore, ferguson, LA riot and knockout game type events.

However, that still just kind of makes a police vs. blacks type situation not a racially separated civil war. For that to happen you'd need white civilians going after black civilians...which I don't see happening. At most it will be white people defending property like the Korean grocery store owners.

My fear is the creation of a police state under the guise of a 'race war'

Post: #284

Lone gun man?

Quote:A suspect in a deadly police ambush in Dallas told negotiators that he was upset about recent police shootings, that he wanted to kill white people -- especially white officers -- and that he acted alone, the city's police chief told reporters Friday.
Police killed the suspect with an explosive device after a standoff that lasted for hours, Chief David Brown said.

"We saw no other option but to use our bomb robot and place a device on its extension for it to detonate where the suspect was," Brown said. "Other options would have exposed our officers to grave danger. The suspect is deceased as a result of detonating the bomb."

http://www.cnn.com/2016/07/08/us/philand...index.html

Post: #285

So went from 4 suspects, twitter pic of the gunman, "at least two suspects in high positions", 3 suspects in custody one dead, "suspect killed himself", now its a lone gunman killed by a robot. The media is a joke.

Post: #286

(07-08-2016 09:32 AM)aSimpNamedBrokeback Wrote:  https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cm0FciQWIAAi_2y.jpg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IZM0Tv_M-Ms

So this dude wasn't even the shooter.

Mike Cernovich is proved to be correct, again.

http://www.dangerandplay.com/2016/07/07/...-shooting/
(post was from more than 10 hours ago)

Post: #287

(07-08-2016 09:12 AM)AboveAverageJoe Wrote:  1. Dallas PD was knee deep in the Kennedy assasination and those killed were Bart cops not DPD. Just making note.

2. There only needs to be a small handful of elites at the top, everyone else is just collateral damage.

3. Many covert ops go belly up and many false falgs get discovered and exposed later. It is not all that far fetched especially when the "good" side is also funding the "bad" side as in The Newburg Sting debacle.

1. I don't really know very much about that, though it sounds like I would need to accept a first conspiracy theory about Kennedy's assassination before I can fully appreciate this next conspiracy theory. I am disinclined to do so, perhaps to my detriment.

2. This is not true. This is not how these kinds of operations happen. The guys at the top are far removed from the guys doing the dirty business. There would be many more people involved than you think, all of whom would want presidential absolution prior to the act.

The president has a security detail and substantial entourage with him when he travels. He has a host of secretaries. Someone knows where he is at all times. This is not like the movies. Real life with its multifaceted banalities conspires to render these kinds of shadowy elite conspiracies utterly implausible. The president and other 'elites' don't go sneaking off in the night. They don't meet people without security, secretaries, press officers, and the many random clerical types in the entourage having a pretty good idea what's up. The same is true for the senior types in the intelligence agencies. Conspiracy theories only make sense if you ignore all the little details of every day life which otherwise render them impossible.

3. Many covert ops do go belly up, in the sense that the hostages they were trying to release get killed, helicopters crash, bad intelligence means that the target is not in the house he is supposed to be in, etc etc. They do not go belly up in the fashion you are suggesting would be necessary for your false flag theories to be true. There are different kinds of fuck up, some that get made by SF/ODGs, and some that don't. The ones your conspiracy theories rely on are the kind that these types don't make.

Post: #288

(07-08-2016 09:39 AM)BassPlayaYo Wrote:  Lone gun man?

Quote:A suspect in a deadly police ambush in Dallas told negotiators that he was upset about recent police shootings, that he wanted to kill white people -- especially white officers -- and that he acted alone, the city's police chief told reporters Friday.
Police killed the suspect with an explosive device after a standoff that lasted for hours, Chief David Brown said.

"We saw no other option but to use our bomb robot and place a device on its extension for it to detonate where the suspect was," Brown said. "Other options would have exposed our officers to grave danger. The suspect is deceased as a result of detonating the bomb."

http://www.cnn.com/2016/07/08/us/philand...index.html

"Brown said an investigation into the ambush continues. He would not say how authorities believe others in custody are connected to the shooting.

Previously, authorities had said three people were in custody, and that multiple shooters were involved in the attack.

"I'm not going to be satisfied until we've turned over every stone. We've got some level that this one suspect did do some of the shooting. But we're not satisfied that we've exhausted every lead," he said. "So if there's someone out there who's associated with this, we will find you, we will prosecute you, and we will bring you to justice."

Asked about the gunman's motive, Brown declined to speculate.

"We can't get into the head of a person that would do something like this. We negotiated with this person that seemed lucid during the negotiation. He wanted to kill officers, and he expressed killing white people, he expressed killing white officers, he expressed anger for Black Lives Matter. None of that makes sense," Brown said. "None of that is a reason, a legitimate reason, to do harm to anyone. So the rest of it would just be speculating on what his motivations were. We just know what he said.""

Post: #289

Could be false but...

Quote:BREAKING: Micah Xavier Johnson, 25, named as Dallas shooter who shot 11 officers, killing 5

https://twitter.com/KariLakeFox10/status...4721494017



NEW: Photo shows #Dallas shooting suspect ID'd as 25-year-old Micah Xavier Johnson

Post: #290

By the way, in the Fox New interview with that sheriff guy (posted earlier in the thread), they clearly say the last suspect shot himself.

We've also got footage of a man in camouflage pants and body armor leaving the building and turning himself into police. He actually seems to be wearing similar clothing (dark shirt and light pants) to the video where the officer is shot at point blank range, though it's hard to tell with the video quality.

But apparently that man was not actually a shooter now? He just happened to be walking around with a bulletproof vest on.

Post: #291

Post: #292

Thankyou H1N1 for dragging some reason back into the room.

I for one am getting absolutely sick of the conspiracy theory bullshit that goes:

"It's a conspiracy!"
...."Umm. No it's not."
"Prove that it's not!"

Uhhh WTF?

More frustratingly, despite making claims without any evidence whatsoever to base them on, the conspiracy theorist struts about preening himself as some sort of intellectual giant, because "he's got it all figured out".

I'm sure I'm making lots of friends with this post but it has to be said. A conspiracy theorist without evidence just comes off as an unhinged fruit loop.

Post: #293

Probably an off-topic question, but I'm curious..

CNN has been running coverage since late last night. The banner at the bottom of the screen reads:

5 OFFICERS KILLED, 12 SHOT IN "AMBUSH"

Why is "AMBUSH" in quotes ??

Post: #294

(07-08-2016 10:14 AM)Sam Malone Wrote:  Probably an off-topic question, but I'm curious..

CNN has been running coverage since late last night. The banner at the bottom of the screen reads:

5 OFFICERS KILLED, 12 SHOT IN "AMBUSH"

Why is "AMBUSH" in quotes ??

Because muh narrative

Post: #295

(07-08-2016 10:14 AM)Sam Malone Wrote:  Probably an off-topic question, but I'm curious..

CNN has been running coverage since late last night. The banner at the bottom of the screen reads:

5 OFFICERS KILLED, 12 SHOT IN "AMBUSH"

Why is "AMBUSH" in quotes ??

The one video shows he clearly ran up on the cop behind the pillar.

Post: #296

(07-08-2016 09:32 AM)aSimpNamedBrokeback Wrote:  



So this dude wasn't even the shooter.

Not much sympathy for this fuckstick, either.

Guy brings a fucking gun to a protest event. Yeah, yeah, I know it's his "constitutional right."

And then he wonders why everyone fingers him as a suspect.

My response is:

There's also such a thing as tact and decorum, dickhead. In an emotionally-charged scenario, you don't go around flashing weapons to look like a wanna-be tough guy. All that does is inflame the situation.

He was attention-whoring and posing as a tough-guy.

See, and this is part of the problem.

So many people now have no social calibration, no discipline, no sense of restraint, no sense of how others will perceive them.

Post: #297

False Flag!

I bet you those cops are not dead and if they are dead, that guy never killed them.

For the record I think the Minnesota shooting is a false flag as well.

So either way, I don't get bent out of shape over them.

Post: #298

I have not been to the US yet, but I can quite well see the "Woe is Me" victim complex that some minority people have by their posts on the forum that take digs at cops and the forum membership.

P.S: TravelerKai is a great guy. Very thought out posts.

Post: #299

(07-08-2016 10:19 AM)Quintus Curtius Wrote:  Not much sympathy for this fuckstick, either.

Guy brings a fucking gun to a protest event. Yeah, yeah, I know it's his "constitutional right."

And then he wonders why everyone fingers him as a suspect.

My response is:

There's also such a thing as tact and decorum, dickhead. In an emotionally-charged scenario, you don't go around flashing weapons to look like a wanna-be tough guy. All that does is inflame the situation.

He was attention-whoring and posing as a tough-guy.

See, and this is part of the problem.

So many people now have no social calibration, no discipline, no sense of restraint, no sense of how others will perceive them.

Exactly! Very well said.

Post: #300