(02-23-2019 10:06 PM)Leonard D Neubache Wrote:  Wow. Curu is quite eloquent. He has a pretty good command of English, doesn't he.

Wait. What's this?

(02-13-2016 05:53 PM)Curunír Wrote:  

(02-13-2016 05:48 PM)Cattle Rustler Wrote:  The fat fuck is dead?

Good to hear.

I got 40 post you 3000, but I can tell you that it's unwarranted that you come here rejoice on the death of this man.

The deep state really has to stop bouncing these accounts from cheap, foreign troll farms to more literate provocateurs. This shit is too easy.

I'm French Canadian. Roosh came to my city in Montreal and I followed all of it. His actions actually helped our city. I used to play poker at the casino and men were actually following the story at that time it was no 1 on the news here.

You implying I'm a troll controlled by the deep state? Yes you have many thousands of post because you are like a broken disc with an agenda here. I'm not an ideologue. I'm a real conservative man with an actual family. You should let people debate and not try to transform the forum into an echo chamber.

Debates are healthy. We can debate Venezuela without you trying to impose your views. You quoting me from 2016 actually shows I think before I debate here because I only wrote 100 posts in three years.

(02-23-2019 09:09 PM)Curunír Wrote:  I get that I may be wrong and that there are many arguments against US intervention, but why are you guys so adamant and jumping on the keyboard against any show of strenght of the US military.

The war in Afghanistan is now old enough that it can pose nude for Playboy. Next year, the children of the first men to fight in Iraq will be old enough to enlist themselves. For the money we've spent on these completely useless, unending wars, we could've had Universal Healthcare, a Mars Base, massive tax cuts, high speed rail, and god knows what else. And this doesn't even get into the thousands of American lives lost.

And you want to go start ANOTHER dumbass, unending war, this time close enough to our borders that we're going to have to deal with an endless influx of refugees and migrants because of it?

The more time passes, the more I become convinced of my idea that Trump voters are just too stupid to deserve to win.

Interesting to see the RVF take on this situation.

I must say I am surprised.

Apparently you guys think that the current African shithole level of life that Maduro has ushered in for the Venezuelans is a good thing?

What exactly would be lost by a new regime supported by the non-communist countries of the world?

Sorry your fantasies of US invasion didn't matriculate today.

(02-23-2019 10:06 PM)lonewolf1992 Wrote:  I don't think I have half the politics knowledge some men in the forum have in here. But one thing I know for sure is neither me nor my fellow colombians have witnessed immigration from the host perspective until now. We were the only ones who used to flee and travel around the world and being treated like shit everywhere. Now the venezuelans are everywhere, they are in the traffic lights, in the transmilenio buses, metro, universities, street sales, restaurants, they are working for less the minimum wage, they are begging for food and coins. They are in the whorehouses, they are in gangs, they are stealing and mugging people. They are in the call centers, schools, hospitals, they are playing in our soccer teams. You can not imagine how many memes we have now with the venezuelan people and their crisis. I've even learned a lot of venezuelan slang haha. Good thing is I can see that brought colombians slightly together despite our rivalries between one another.

Lastly, I've noticed a few things most of those venezuelans have in common is their hatred and distrust for whatever word is related to socialism and the left; and their cravings to see the God emperor to crush Maduro and his evil communist regime to death. I'm more right-wing than ever. haha

Thanks for a real perspective, most on these pages are just America hating trolls begging for attention.

(02-24-2019 12:16 AM)LaFleur Wrote:  Interesting to see the RVF take on this situation.
I must say I am surprised.
Apparently you guys think that the current African shithole level of life that Maduro has ushered in for the Venezuelans is a good thing?

It's a bad thing, but it's also a not-my-problem thing.

Quote:What exactly would be lost by a new regime supported by the non-communist countries of the world?

Thousands of US lives and billions upon billions of dollars that badly need to stay in our country.

Quote:Sorry your fantasies of US invasion didn't matriculate today.

With luck, they never will.

18 month 35 post 0 rep no flag French theme poster weighs in.

Are we at algorithm level yet?

(02-24-2019 12:16 AM)LaFleur Wrote:  Interesting to see the RVF take on this situation.

I must say I am surprised.

Apparently you guys think that the current African shithole level of life that Maduro has ushered in for the Venezuelans is a good thing?

No, but it's also completely self-inflicted and therefore can only be self-fixed. Venezuela has been doing the equivalent of stepping on rakes politically and socially since the 19th century. Its history comes down to "We wuz serfs, and then when we wuz kangs, we ran the country like serfs who just got given a big stick."

They don't know how to do democracy. Simple as that. They like strongmen or else they wouldn't keep electing them. That is Venezuela's modern history and was preceded by its pre-modern history in which the strongmen were actual kings.

Like a lot of naive interventionism, fucking around in warm countries filled with arsescratchers does nothing but prolong the pain. If the world simply let normal economics take its course, Venezuela would be back to normal in a couple of years or so. (Insofar as you can have normal in a place that styles itself as an emerging economy and always will be.) The difference here is that Maduro nationalised the food supply and turned it over to the military, which means the standard arc of hyperinflationary conditions can't play out normally ... but again this is not something you fix by intervening militarily.

(02-24-2019 12:16 AM)LaFleur Wrote:  What exactly would be lost by a new regime supported by the non-communist countries of the world?

Only the lives of a lot of young white American men. And possibly a handful of Australian SAS troopers, since the blood sacrifice we pay for not having to develop our own nukes has to be paid every time.

And I emphasise 'American'. The way interventionists go on you'd fucking thing nobody had a military on the Earth except for the United States.

Venezuela has maybe 100,000 people in its military. That's all up, and a good portion of that will be out beating up the locals rather than protecting the country.

Where's the UN? How come the Left wants diversity until it comes to hiring fucking blue helmets with brown skin? Brazil has two million people in its armed forces, 450 tanks, 45 fighters, you don't think they could spare a few hundred thousand to go and provide a South American Liberation Exercise to this? Argentina, they did rather decently against the UK until Britain decided to stop fighting with one arm tied behind its back, how come there's no Coalitions Of The Caballeros being put together to Uphold The South American Dream Of Democracy?

Quote:US President Jimmy Carter has declared that Venezuela’s electoral system is the best in the world.

Speaking at an annual event last week in Atlanta for his Carter Centre foundation, the politician-turned philanthropist stated, “As a matter of fact, of the 92 elections that we’ve monitored, I would say the election process in Venezuela is the best in the world.”

(02-24-2019 04:10 AM)Paracelsus Wrote:  how come there's no Coalitions Of The Caballeros being put together to Uphold The South American Dream Of Democracy?

Because you have a rogue state trying to impose its will on everyone else.

(02-19-2019 04:26 AM)Sp5 Wrote:  Here's how it's going to go:
1. "Mr. President, we have a plan to topple Maduro with humanitarian aid and money support for Guaidó's organization.
2. "Mr. President, you have to get out in front of this make some speeches telling Maduro he has to go."
3. 23 February demonstrations against Maduro. People will get killed or injured. Media will amplify.
4. If Maduro survives 23 F (likely), "Mr. President, you've staked your political prestige and the reputation of the USA on regime change. We have to do more, and General Humberstump says we can get rid of Maduro in 48 hours, no casualties."
5. Ranger Regiment, SEALs, 7th Special Forces, 82nd Airborne on the runway.
6. 2020 headline: "Insurgency Continues in Venezuela."

We are at #4 now. The allegations of atrocities and the calls for "international action" are flooding the zone.
"International action" being a 100% US-funded military operation with US troops and some Colombian and Brazilian army as well.

A US Senator wouldn't say this unless there's something planned.

What a joke saying "actions not on the table 24 hours ago" as if this hasn't all been planned.

What "grave crimes" are they referring to?

(02-23-2019 09:55 PM)Curunír Wrote:  

(02-23-2019 09:40 PM)911 Wrote:  

(02-23-2019 09:09 PM)Curunír Wrote:  ...
I disagree with your affirmation that democracy in Venezuela had been incredibly more legitimate that what happens in the US. I think that this affirmation makes you lose a lot of credibility. The last elections were boycotted because of the fraud level. Boxes are stuffed on a national level. This can happen in the US, but it's the exception not the norm.

I get that I may be wrong and that there are many arguments against US intervention, but why are you guys so adamant and jumping on the keyboard against any show of strenght of the US military.

Yeah I'm Canadian I live 20 miles from the US border and everyone knows that the US controls Canada economically so I feel concerned by any debate that implicates the US.

You sound like you're 19 years old, because it's as if the last several decades never happened... how did the US militay "show of strength" work out in the middle east? Do you really think the locals and Chavistas are going to welcome the gringo army? The US is $22 trillion in debt, and a good chunk of this is due to foreign wars and a massive military budget.

You're wrong about the Venezuelan elections process. Unlike the US system, theirs is nearly impossible to rig. Chavez and Maduro won every election they've run in the last two decades, why would this one be any different. If the opposition boycotted, it's their loss, don't count on foreigners to come in and overthrow the guy that got more votes.

Quote:US President Jimmy Carter has declared that Venezuela’s electoral system is the best in the world.

Speaking at an annual event last week in Atlanta for his Carter Centre foundation, the politician-turned philanthropist stated, “As a matter of fact, of the 92 elections that we’ve monitored, I would say the election process in Venezuela is the best in the world.”

Venezuela has developed a fully automated touch-screen voting system, which now uses thumbprint recognition technology and prints off a receipt to confirm voters’ choices.

https://venezuelanalysis.com/news/7272

The US should import Venezuela's voting system, the electronic process with no paper trail is incredibly easy to hack, and it's been hacked several times, for example by Rove in 2004 to turn Ohio Republican and flip the entire election.

This is one of the most important videos on the American voting process, this guy, who is a patriot conservative digital networks security expert, has done a great job documenting the 2004 fraud:

If I'm not mistaken the software company managing the actual vote said it was rigged and manipulated. The electronic vote was highly problematic. Look Smartmatic up.

I'm highly comfortable with my position, beats me what you guys are defending.

And no, I am not in my twenties far from it. If it wasn't for scrutiny on this forum I'd share all my details with you guys.

Venezuela's voting system is foolproof because it has a hybrid electronic/paper system. You select your candidate on the computer screen, the computer prints out your ballot with the choice marked. The voter then checks to make sure it's the right choice then puts this printout into the ballot box. Votes are then tabulated by counting the paper votes, and that tally is then checked against the automated computer tally.

In addition to this, the machine has a biometric recognition system for thumbprints, so people cannot vote twice, and illegals breaking the law would be biometrically recorded in the system.

The US would greatly benefit from implementing the Venezuelan voting system, it would eliminate voter fraud through rigged software programs, as there is no paper trail on electronic voting systems in the US. It would also dissuade illegals from voting, as fraudster wetbacks would think twice before committing a felony in which their thumprints are captured in a government database...

Nice. So this voting system in Venezuela isn't A) rigged on an electronic level and B) filled with regime goons who throw out paper votes/ballot boxes to make it match?

It will fall on deaf ears for the "shining city on the hill" crowd.

They'll scream bloody murder about rigged elections in 2020, mark your calendar.

But right now Maduro is an illegitimate leader because brown-people elections don't count.

(02-24-2019 11:42 AM)911 Wrote:  Venezuela's voting system is foolproof because it has a hybrid electronic/paper system. You select your candidate on the computer screen, the computer prints out your ballot with the choice marked. The voter then checks to make sure it's the right choice then puts this printout into the ballot box. Votes are then tabulated by counting the paper votes, and that tally is then checked against the automated computer tally.

In addition to this, the machine has a biometric recognition system for thumbprints, so people cannot vote twice, and illegals breaking the law would be biometrically recorded in the system.

The US would greatly benefit from implementing the Venezuelan voting system, it would eliminate voter fraud through rigged software programs, as there is no paper trail on electronic voting systems in the US. It would also dissuade illegals from voting, as fraudster wetbacks would think twice before committing a felony in which their thumprints are captured in a government database...

To be fair for the case against Maduro, the issue with the election is that Maduro had various legal cases brought to disqualify, imprison, or force into exile all of his popular, organized opponents , not that the count in the eventual election wasn't accurate.
Out of the Putin playbook

(02-24-2019 12:04 PM)Sp5 Wrote:  To be fair for the case against Maduro, the issue with the election is that Maduro had various legal cases brought to disqualify, imprison, or force into exile all of his popular, organized opponents , not that the count in the eventual election wasn't accurate.
Out of the Putin playbook

OK, but you still have the option of not voting for him, or voting for whoever is running against him. In absolute terms, Maduro got a solid mandate through the ballot box. And why the hell did Guiado boycott the elections? He wasn't prevented from running. Perhaps he knew he wasn't going to win.


I've changed my mind on Venezuela after doing the research. Chavez' record on the economy is actually pretty decent. Granted he's no Hjlamar Schacht, but there is no doubt that his country overall did OK under him, and the bottom half in particular did very well, poverty rates went way down under Chavez. That's a fairly obvious fact if you bother to look at the data.



Venezuela's economy tanked more recently, most likely because of stepped-up US sanctions and globalist economic hit jobs, because they were actually doing fairly well the decade before under Chavez, it's not like Maduro changed the course. It's pretty similar to the way Iraq's economy cratered in the 90s under US sanctions.

Oh, and fuck little Marco and the foamboat party he rode in, that neocon POS is about as compromised a politician as they come.

https://redice.tv/news/did-marco-rubio-a...am-parties

Mainstream media in Europe is having a hard time getting behind this coup. They try of course, but there are enough marxists left in european media, that they have a problem toppling a leader of socialist utopia, particularly one in the tradition of that handsome Che Guevara.

This thing is really a jewish ploy out of the 1980s. Times have changed. This won't look good. I just heard people on mainstream media dissecting the strategy of Trump's "humanitarian aid" and how it was just meant to provoke a reaction.

My prediction: Maduro won't step down, there will be no invasion and Trump will take a big personal hit and look like a loser. Perhaps being seen as a bumbling W. like buffoon will get him to throw out Javanka and the jews.

Quote:Venezuela's economy tanked more recently, most likely because of stepped-up US sanctions and globalist economic hit jobs, because they were actually doing fairly well the decade before under Chavez, it's not like Maduro changed the course. It's pretty similar to the way Iraq's economy cratered in the 90s under US sanctions.

OR, it's a common feature of bloated socialist mastodons to eventually implode in a spectacular fashion, because bloated socialist policies eventually result in chickens coming home to roost, whether these policies are run by a "benevolent prime minister" like Chavez or a "brutal dictator" like Maduro. For an example just check out Yugoslavia, which inevitably experienced tremendous hyperinflation/shortages and eventually collapsed despite its favorable position, fairly moderate socialism and a ton of foreign aid/remittances.

And in regards to US sanctions, there is much more to the world than US. Go trade with Russia, China, Latin America, Africa and Asia instead of blaming it on a country 1000 miles away.

(02-24-2019 01:04 PM)Handsome Creepy Eel Wrote:  

Quote:Venezuela's economy tanked more recently, most likely because of stepped-up US sanctions and globalist economic hit jobs, because they were actually doing fairly well the decade before under Chavez, it's not like Maduro changed the course. It's pretty similar to the way Iraq's economy cratered in the 90s under US sanctions.

OR, it's a common feature of bloated socialist mastodons to eventually implode in a spectacular fashion, because bloated socialist policies eventually result in chickens coming home to roost, whether these policies are run by a "benevolent prime minister" like Chavez or a "brutal dictator" like Maduro. For an example just check out Yugoslavia, which inevitably experienced tremendous hyperinflation/shortages and eventually collapsed despite its favorable position, fairly moderate socialism and a ton of foreign aid/remittances.

And in regards to US sanctions, there is much more to the world than US. Go trade with Russia, China, Latin America, Africa and Asia instead of blaming it on a country 1000 miles away.

Venezuela has a mixed economy, with a large private sector:



^^^^This is not Tito's economy.

The price of oil tripled from $35 to $105 from 2004 to 2009. Also, your graph stops in 2011, but if it continued on, it would show the GDP coming all the way back down to 2004 levels after the oil prices came back down to Earth.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/c...cators.png

Chavez did not effectively manage the economy to produce rapid economic growth. He took advantage of a short term spike in oil prices, and in the process, he bleed the oil industry dry and ran the country into the ground.

Talk about killing the goose that laid the golden eggs! He could hardly have been more destructive with the economy than he was.

(02-24-2019 12:35 PM)911 Wrote:  

(02-24-2019 12:04 PM)Sp5 Wrote:  To be fair for the case against Maduro, the issue with the election is that Maduro had various legal cases brought to disqualify, imprison, or force into exile all of his popular, organized opponents , not that the count in the eventual election wasn't accurate.
Out of the Putin playbook

OK, but you still have the option of not voting for him, or voting for whoever is running against him. In absolute terms, Maduro got a solid mandate through the ballot box. And why the hell did Guiado boycott the elections? He wasn't prevented from running. Perhaps he knew he wasn't going to win.


I've changed my mind on Venezuela after doing the research. Chavez' record on the economy is actually pretty decent. Granted he's no Hjlamar Schacht, but there is no doubt that his country overall did OK under him, and the bottom half in particular did very well, poverty rates went way down under Chavez. That's a fairly obvious fact if you bother to look at the data.



Venezuela's economy tanked more recently, most likely because of stepped-up US sanctions and globalist economic hit jobs, because they were actually doing fairly well the decade before under Chavez, it's not like Maduro changed the course. It's pretty similar to the way Iraq's economy cratered in the 90s under US sanctions.

Oh, and fuck little Marco and the foamboat party he rode in, that neocon POS is about as compromised a politician as they come.

https://redice.tv/news/did-marco-rubio-a...am-parties

All of Chavez's economic policies were based on the idea that oil prices would remain high forever. He failed to diversify the Venezuelan economy, and when Oil prices came back down the economy naturally tanked. You can't support socialist programs forever. Especially when your government suddenly stops getting revenue from its most important industry.

No sympathy for Maduro, but the seeds of all this were laid before he even came into office.

You're not taking into account tools that were used to make their economy crater, like speculation on their currency, economic sabotage and tougher trade sanctions. Whatever the issues their economy had to start with are going to be greatly exacerbated by that kind of outside interference.

Point is, fomenting civil war is not going to make their economy any better. I don't think the US will intervene militarily, because there would be a half million armed chavistas and nationalists fighting back, but there will be further chaos and economic difficulties from the foreign-funded instability.

(02-24-2019 02:36 PM)DChambers Wrote:  All of Chavez's economic policies were based on the idea that oil prices would remain high forever. He failed to diversify the Venezuelan economy, and when Oil prices came back down the economy naturally tanked. You can't support socialist programs forever. Especially when your government suddenly stops getting revenue from its most important industry.

No sympathy for Maduro, but the seeds of all this were laid before he even came into office.

Maduro appears to have gotten stuck with the fallout of Chavez's mess due to a poverty of other men who could step up. Dude would probably be much more satisfied in life if he could have continued on as the big dog in the bus driver social club.

The most relevant historical parallel is likely Spain's Franco. All indications are Franco very much wanted to do anything other than get stuck with the job of keeping recently entitled derps from driving the country straight into the shitter.

Maduro struggles in the ways he does because delivering steering input to a country is more complicated than doing so with a bus. Where he does well is the result of being an alpha male acting as an alpha male, unlike Macron/Obama/Merkel/Javanka.

On the world stage there is a growing divide between countries with masculine governments functioning according to their national interest: Russia, Turkey, Italy, Hungary, Vzla, China, Iran, Belarus, etc

While on the other side are dysfunctional countries and international groups with feminine governments: US, EU, Sweden, Obama's Nation of Africa.

Other countries aren't as clearly aligned, but the functional side of the split has become more attractive than the dysfunctional side.

Marco Rubio posting pictures of Gadaffi and implying that he wants to do to Venezeula what we did to Libya.

That foamboy faggot had better not get what he wants.

Marco would be thrown off a building by those same guys if they knew he was a homosexual and they had the chance.