Post: #1

Tested my T levels last year.

580 ng/dl

Tested them today (12 months later).

303 ng/dl

Almost halved in 12 months. Thing is, I've made a conscious effort to try and increase it. I've been lifting more weight, eating more fats and protein and vegetables and taking zinc supplements. I was expecting a big jump, so this is a concerning and puzzling move in the wrong direction.

What could be the causes of this? Is there any chance a re-test will give a different result? Since the conventional advice seems to have failed what's the best course of action going forward?

Thanks.

Post: #2

What was the testing methodology? Things like diet, time of day, fasting, etc. play into this.

Test levels fluctuate incredibly through out the day which is normal.

Have you been eating a lot of soy or handling any estrogenic compounds?

Post: #3

There are millions of factors that affect your hormones.

You haven't provided any additional information about yourself in this post.

Are you stressed? Have you been cutting weight too fast? Are you sleeping? Do you binge drink? Are you eating Soylent? Are you stimmed out on preworkout? How old are you? We could ask a million questions to diagnose the cause.

This post should be merged with the TESTOSTERONE Injections thread. Until then, start doing your homework:

http://www.peaktestosterone.com/Hdr_Testosterone.aspx

http://fabfitover40.com/2016/01/22/how-t...erapy-trt/

303 ng/dL is low. Start reading about TRT. Do yourself a favor and take a truly introspective account of your life to determine what could be the issue. Hope this helps and keep us updated.

Post: #4

Order another test.

Post: #5

(02-03-2016 08:02 AM)redbeard Wrote:  There are millions of factors that affect your hormones.

You haven't provided any additional information about yourself in this post.

Are you stressed? Have you been cutting weight too fast? Are you sleeping? Do you binge drink? Are you eating Soylent? Are you stimmed out on preworkout? How old are you? We could ask a million questions to diagnose the cause.

This post should be merged with the TESTOSTERONE Injections thread. Until then, start doing your homework:

http://www.peaktestosterone.com/Hdr_Testosterone.aspx

http://fabfitover40.com/2016/01/22/how-t...erapy-trt/

303 ng/dL is low. Start reading about TRT. Do yourself a favor and take a truly introspective account of your life to determine what could be the issue. Hope this helps and keep us updated.

29 years old. Healthy in all respects. Don't drink, don't smoke. Only supplements are a multi-vitamin, zinc and vitamin D. Work out 4-5 times a week (weights, boxing). Almost zero stress, 7-8 hours sleep every night. Weight is stable and maybe fluctuates 2-3lbs, I don't really weigh myself regularly but I do know I'm of healthy weight and healthy body fat. Can almost squat and deadlift double my bodyweight (about 1.7x).

Only thing I can think of is I haven't banged in about 2 months. That and I woke much earlier than usual to take the test (as T levels are supposed be highest in the early am). Maybe only slept 4-5 hours that night.

Definitely don't want to start on TRT at 29 and I'm sure most here will agree.

Test was standard blood test.

Have read through almost that entire Peak Testosterone site last year, and most of the T information on RVF, even messaged a few guys here to help me put together a regime to increase my T level. As I said, I've been making a conscious effort to increase T over the last few months - so I've done all the homework.

I suppose I'll wait a week and test again to be doubly sure.

Post: #6

Also - I feel fine. I feel really really good and look good. I was expecting a good jump into the 600s or 700s. Was a real shock to be honest.

Post: #7

Test it again in a couple of weeks. Do both 24 hour urine and blood samples. And do it after sleeping like you normally do.

The 24 hour urine test measures the sex hormone levels trough 24 hours, and the blood sample is just a snapshot at that exact moment.

Post: #8

Retested.

Test: 415 ng/dl. Up 35% or so from last week but still low.

LH: 3.2 IU/L
FSH: 2.1 IU/L

Both LH and FSH seem to be at the very bottom of the normal range. Got work to do.

Post: #9

@Gas

Don't get too hung up on you total testosterone number.

It's a lab reading, not a clinical diagnosis of secondary hypogonadism.

There are plenty of "high T" guys with good lab numbers who feel like shit.

You admit to feeling really, really good and looking the same.

So I wouldn't worry too much about it.

Get retested several times, make sure to check your free T and SHGB levels as well, and then decide what you want to do.

Also you mentioned getting your test done early in the morning because that's when your T levels are "supposed" to be higher.

I had this argument with a doctor just the other day when I insisted on coming in at 10am instead of 6am for my blood draw.

What many of these moron nurses and doctors don't realize is that your T levels are higher in the morning RELATIVE TO your circadian rhythm.

If you're going to bed at 2/3am every morning and waking up at 10/11am, THAT is your morning, not 6am.

So keep that in mind too as it will affect your results.

p.s. 2 months...WTF?! go get some pussy my man!

Post: #10

Thanks for the sound advice. I usually sleep at 2am and wake around 10, and I got my blood drawn about 7:30am both times so maybe it could've been higher.

Re banging I've been holed up working on a project with a buddy since November, and I admit the resulting dry spell is probably having an effect on me. Motivated by my shitty T test I told myself the next day I needed to go out and approach so I went downtown and managed one approach in an hour. Fizzed out too. We take breaks from the game but mine has been far too long and my dick is shriveling up. Will get back into it.

Will test again in a few weeks too.

Post: #11

How fat are you? Even some visceral fat can blunt T significantly.

Post: #12

Just got rest of my lab. Turns out SHBG was included in the T test.

Vitamin D 30ng/ml
SHBG 5.7 ug/ml
Free Testosterone 61.4 pg/ml
Oestradiol 27 pg/ml

Don't see any obvious causes, maybe SHBG a little high and need to start downing some more Vit D.

Post: #13

(02-10-2016 02:57 AM)Hades Wrote:  How fat are you? Even some visceral fat can blunt T significantly.

I'm not fat at all. In fact I burn fat so easily I have trouble keeping on mass. My abs are defined and very visible. I've never gotten my body fat accurately measured, but at a guess I'd say I'm between 10-15%.

Post: #14

(02-10-2016 02:35 AM)Gas Wrote:  Thanks for the sound advice. I usually sleep at 2am and wake around 10, and I got my blood drawn about 7:30am both times so maybe it could've been higher.

Re banging I've been holed up working on a project with a buddy since November, and I admit the resulting dry spell is probably having an effect on me. Motivated by my shitty T test I told myself the next day I needed to go out and approach so I went downtown and managed one approach in an hour. Fizzed out too. We take breaks from the game but mine has been far too long and my dick is shriveling up. Will get back into it.

Will test again in a few weeks too.

The next time you do a test, try having a good night sleep. Go to bed as early as possible, wake up at 7am, skip the breakfast and go get your test.

I remember when I got the results after my last test - I panicked when I saw the levels were almost below official normal range. Then I recalled that I had trouble sleeping that night. I even woke up at 4am and went to the bathroom to piss.

I decided to repeat the test two days later, but this time I made sure I slept well. The results were normal, no problems. It appears that poor quality of sleep/not enough sleep during the night can literally kill your testosterone production, which occurs during the night when you sleep.

Post: #15

(02-03-2016 07:47 AM)Gas Wrote:  Tested my T levels last year.

580 ng/dl

Tested them today (12 months later).

303 ng/dl

Almost halved in 12 months. Thing is, I've made a conscious effort to try and increase it. I've been lifting more weight, eating more fats and protein and vegetables and taking zinc supplements. I was expecting a big jump, so this is a concerning and puzzling move in the wrong direction.

What could be the causes of this? Is there any chance a re-test will give a different result? Since the conventional advice seems to have failed what's the best course of action going forward?

Thanks.

very important time when you make test must be morning before eating drinking max 1h after wake up.
stress one time I was stress before test guess what it tanked my levels to 100ng/dl!!!! Extremely important. How you overall feel? Libido is down? Tired? Not motivated? Do you feel aslo 2X worse? You should notice big changes in overall well being dropping so much...

Post: #16

(02-03-2016 08:40 AM)Gas Wrote:  Maybe only slept 4-5 hours that night.

that is your answer!!!!

Post: #17

(02-10-2016 03:35 AM)Gas Wrote:  Vitamin D 30ng/ml

This value is suboptimal and warrants supplementation.

You want to be at 50-70ng/mL.

(Source: http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articl...anges.aspx)

You need to play around with this value a bit.

It's very possible to oversupplement with vitamin D, as I've done.

Find which end of the optimal range you feel better in and then figure out how much vitamin D you need to take to maintain it, all other things (like sun exposure) being equal.

Here's my favorite vitamin D supplement:

http://www.amazon.com/Michaels-Naturopat...tamin+d+k2

It contains K2, which should always be taken in conjunction with D3, and the dose is 5k IUs so you can titrate up/down more easily than with a 10k IU dose.

I'd start by taking 5k IUs of D3 per day for a month, then retest.

Make sure to abstain from taking any supplemental D3 for a few days before you retest or your value will be artificially elevated and won't give you a clear picture of your levels.

Quote:SHBG 5.7 ug/ml

Not sure about this one.

I couldn't find any reference value charts with this unit.

SHGB is usually measured in nmol/L.

Anybody know the conversion factor on this?

Quote:Free Testosterone 61.4 pg/ml

This is equivalent to 6.14 ng/dL.

Reference range for males your age is:

30 - <35 years: 1.51-18.57 ng/dL

So it's within range but there's room for improvement.

http://www.mayomedicallaboratories.com/t...tive/83686

Quote:Oestradiol 27 pg/ml

What constitutes 'optimal' is a more contentious topic when it comes to E2.

But you seem to be in the optimal range:

http://www.peaktestosterone.com/Normal_E...s_Men.aspx

Quote:Don't see any obvious causes, maybe SHBG a little high and need to start downing some more Vit D.

Vitamin D levels correlate with testosterone levels so you probably will see a bump in Test once you get D3 levels sorted.

I'd also look into Zinc supplementation (I like this brand), Magnesium supplementation (oil, not pills), and a high quality fish or Krill oil.

If, after optimizing everything as best you can, and conducting several tests to determine whether or not your testosterone level is actually low or whether it simply happened to be low when you had it tested (two different things), then you can consider further action.

But again, if you feel great, if you're able to put on muscle, if your libido is strong, if you're sleeping well and generally feeling virile, then IMHO it's not worth the potential downsides to hop on the sauce.

I get the vanity/ego issues involved in a high T reading ("I'm over 1000, BRO") but if you look and feel awesome, you don't need to be fucking with your endocrine system.

Post: #18

@VV - why magnesium oil over pills?

Post: #19

(02-10-2016 12:40 PM)VincentVinturi Wrote:  

Quote:SHBG 5.7 ug/ml

Not sure about this one.

I couldn't find any reference value charts with this unit.

SHGB is usually measured in nmol/L.

Anybody know the conversion factor on this?

Converted I'm 51 nmol/L

Post: #20

@Vincent

Thanks I actually just ordered some 5,000 Vit D, magnesium oil and fish oils. Going to start experimenting.

When I took my blood test I was about ten days into trying a new sleep cycle (trying to get to bed before midnight) because I usually sleep around 2-3am. So I'd been getting into bed at 11pm every night and waking up in the middle of the night (around 4am) because I guess I wasn't sleepy enough. After hearing you all talk about sleep I guess this was probably the biggest factor in my shitty reading. I'm a little more confident now that my T is nearer to normal, but definitely room for improvement. Will test again in a few weeks.

Thanks again for the input guys.

Post: #21

(02-10-2016 12:40 PM)VincentVinturi Wrote:  

(02-10-2016 03:35 AM)Gas Wrote:  Vitamin D 30ng/ml

This value is suboptimal and warrants supplementation.

You want to be at 50-70ng/mL.

(Source: http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articl...anges.aspx)

Vitamin D is so important. Any guy who's not feeling as viral as they used to should go get their vitamin D checked. Mine was a 7 ng/mL. Not a typo, seven. My T was also down around 340, so not great but not low enough to try anything besides changing diet and supplementing. Got on the 50,000 IU/week prescription vitamin D dosage and I'm feeling, much, much, better. Going back in a few weeks to get the blood work redone but I'm pretty sure it's done it's job.

Post: #22

(02-10-2016 01:21 PM)redbeard Wrote:  @VV - why magnesium oil over pills?

Pills don't work as well and depending on the quality, can lead to raccoon eyes.

The Zinc Matrix supplement I linked to above actually has Zinc, Magnesium, Copper and boron (a lesser known, and admittedly contentious T booster).

I've been using it for a while because that's all I can get here and it's a quality supplement, all of the ingredients are the bioavailable versions and it's easy on the stomach.

But there's still nothing like rubbing some Mg oil on an hour before bed, it simply works better.

Post: #23

(02-10-2016 06:53 PM)Gas Wrote:  When I took my blood test I was about ten days into trying a new sleep cycle (trying to get to bed before midnight) because I usually sleep around 2-3am. So I'd been getting into bed at 11pm every night and waking up in the middle of the night (around 4am) because I guess I wasn't sleepy enough. After hearing you all talk about sleep I guess this was probably the biggest factor in my shitty reading. I'm a little more confident now that my T is nearer to normal, but definitely room for improvement. Will test again in a few weeks.

Gas, when changing your sleep schedule it can be a positive sign that you are waking up in the middle of the night. Prior to the introduction of the electric light people typically slept in two segments per night. Now termed Biphasic sleep.

I have had shit tons of sleep issues and now when I wake up in the middle of the night I know it is because I am rested enough to do a full biphasic sleep cycle. I wake up, read for a while and go back to sleep. I don't watch any screens or turn on too many lights so that I don't activate a full wake pattern which computer screens and bright lights can trigger.

My first cycle is usually longer than the second. On those nights that I have both phases I feel much better the next day.

Post: #24

Take another test and schedule the test for 3-4pm in the afternoon. Try to keep everything normal & congruent about your activity, eating, sleep, diet, sex, etc before the test.

Post: #25

(02-10-2016 11:52 PM)VincentVinturi Wrote:  

(02-10-2016 01:21 PM)redbeard Wrote:  @VV - why magnesium oil over pills?

Pills don't work as well and depending on the quality, can lead to raccoon eyes.

The Zinc Matrix supplement I linked to above actually has Zinc, Magnesium, Copper and boron (a lesser known, and admittedly contentious T booster).

I've been using it for a while because that's all I can get here and it's a quality supplement, all of the ingredients are the bioavailable versions and it's easy on the stomach.

But there's still nothing like rubbing some Mg oil on an hour before bed, it simply works better.

I've never understood taking Zinc and copper at the same time. outside of the amounts in my multi vitamin, I try to time any other intake of zinc and copper vitamins at different parts of the day. Reason being, is I've read over n over that Zinc dumps your copper. Isn't it a wash to take them both simultaneously?