Post: #26

I'm probably going a little against the grain here, but your values are mostly fine except for your total Test. And you said that you're asymptomatic.

Low-testosterone symptoms are very noticeable: fatigue, low libido, difficulty concentrating, dysthymia, etc. If you're not noticing any of these, I would say stay the course.

I feel you about not wanting to go on TRT. I'm 36 and fought myself for three years about going on. I think I needed time to digest the fact that I'm getting older and don't have the body of my 22-year-old self anymore. It didn't help that my hair was falling out and my skin was looking rougher at the same time. Ultimately I had to realize that if I wanted to look and feel optimal, I would need to resort to chemistry to achieve this.

For TRT I'm just using clomid right now, and it has made a big difference. I don't know my new test levels as my urologist is a pain and won't release this data, but I feel better. I'm putting on muscle. Libido's slightly higher.

Anyway, your 29, so you should be sceptical about going on TRT. But just know that when the first symptoms start popping up, and they likely will, that you can do something about it.

Post: #27

(02-13-2016 11:08 AM)gmoneysauce Wrote:  

(02-10-2016 06:53 PM)Gas Wrote:  When I took my blood test I was about ten days into trying a new sleep cycle (trying to get to bed before midnight) because I usually sleep around 2-3am. So I'd been getting into bed at 11pm every night and waking up in the middle of the night (around 4am) because I guess I wasn't sleepy enough. After hearing you all talk about sleep I guess this was probably the biggest factor in my shitty reading. I'm a little more confident now that my T is nearer to normal, but definitely room for improvement. Will test again in a few weeks.

Gas, when changing your sleep schedule it can be a positive sign that you are waking up in the middle of the night. Prior to the introduction of the electric light people typically slept in two segments per night. Now termed Biphasic sleep.

I have had shit tons of sleep issues and now when I wake up in the middle of the night I know it is because I am rested enough to do a full biphasic sleep cycle. I wake up, read for a while and go back to sleep. I don't watch any screens or turn on too many lights so that I don't activate a full wake pattern which computer screens and bright lights can trigger.

My first cycle is usually longer than the second. On those nights that I have both phases I feel much better the next day.

Interesting. I remember I actually did wake up one night at about 3am and couldn't get back to sleep. I read for an hour and finally knocked out again. Woke up around 7. Felt normal.

Post: #28

(02-16-2016 12:04 PM)PUA_Rachacha Wrote:  I'm probably going a little against the grain here, but your values are mostly fine except for your total Test. And you said that you're asymptomatic.

Low-testosterone symptoms are very noticeable: fatigue, low libido, difficulty concentrating, dysthymia, etc. If you're not noticing any of these, I would say stay the course.

I feel you about not wanting to go on TRT. I'm 36 and fought myself for three years about going on. I think I needed time to digest the fact that I'm getting older and don't have the body of my 22-year-old self anymore. It didn't help that my hair was falling out and my skin was looking rougher at the same time. Ultimately I had to realize that if I wanted to look and feel optimal, I would need to resort to chemistry to achieve this.

For TRT I'm just using clomid right now, and it has made a big difference. I don't know my new test levels as my urologist is a pain and won't release this data, but I feel better. I'm putting on muscle. Libido's slightly higher.

Anyway, your 29, so you should be sceptical about going on TRT. But just know that when the first symptoms start popping up, and they likely will, that you can do something about it.

Chances are you're paying your urologist out the ass in fees so I'd demand to see the test results. You have that right. It's your data.

My doctor wouldn't prescribe tests for me because he said I have no symptoms, so I self tested. Cost me close to $100 but well worth it. Don't let the doctors dictate what you can and can't know. It's important to have your numbers.

Post: #29

(02-16-2016 09:57 PM)Gas Wrote:  Chances are you're paying your urologist out the ass in fees so I'd demand to see the test results. You have that right. It's your data.

My doctor wouldn't prescribe tests for me because he said I have no symptoms, so I self tested. Cost me close to $100 but well worth it. Don't let the doctors dictate what you can and can't know. It's important to have your numbers.

Gas, Do you mean a urine test?

My GP recently ordered a Testosterone test (blood) for me without blinking. Is it more difficult to get a urine test, and is that test more accurate?

Post: #30

(02-16-2016 10:54 PM)Stun Wrote:  

(02-16-2016 09:57 PM)Gas Wrote:  Chances are you're paying your urologist out the ass in fees so I'd demand to see the test results. You have that right. It's your data.

My doctor wouldn't prescribe tests for me because he said I have no symptoms, so I self tested. Cost me close to $100 but well worth it. Don't let the doctors dictate what you can and can't know. It's important to have your numbers.

Gas, Do you mean a urine test?

My GP recently ordered a Testosterone test (blood) for me without blinking. Is it more difficult to get a urine test, and is that test more accurate?

Depending on your age - it might be easier to get if you're older. I'm 29 which is considered young to be worrying about testosterone.

I did a blood test and I believe that's the most accurate test. Tested for Total T, Free T, Oestradiol, Vit D, LH, FSH, SHBG. Never had the urine test but I heard it's not as accurate.

Post: #31

1. Make Acth,Cortisol (plasma and urine), fsh, lh, testosterone, estradiol, prolactine, dheas lab test
2. Try supplements, Vit D 5000 everyday, Vit c 1000mcg every day, zinc, magnesium, vit b complex for 1 -2 months
3. If this dont help,go to endocrinologist or urologist or other doc, who will give you ,,clomid test''. You will have to measure T,LH,FSH then take 50mg of clomid for max 1 month then test again LH,FS,T. This test will check whether there is problem in your balls or head. If LH and FSH will be high and T will be high - problem is in your head (probably pituitary), maybe thyroid, maybe adrenals. If LH, FSH will be high and T will be low - problem are your balls, so you will need TRT. During taking clomid and 5-6 after, there is 90 % chance that you will feel very bad, but you have to sacrifice it to check what is cause of your problem.
4. If you are not patient-go straight to point 3.

Post: #32

(02-19-2016 04:44 PM)dred349 Wrote:  1. Make Acth,Cortisol (plasma and urine), fsh, lh, testosterone, estradiol, prolactine, dheas lab test
2. Try supplements, Vit D 5000 everyday, Vit c 1000mcg every day, zinc, magnesium, vit b complex for 1 -2 months
3. If this dont help,go to endocrinologist or urologist or other doc, who will give you ,,clomid test''. You will have to measure T,LH,FSH then take 50mg of clomid for max 1 month then test again LH,FS,T. This test will check whether there is problem in your balls or head. If LH and FSH will be high and T will be high - problem is in your head (probably pituitary), maybe thyroid, maybe adrenals. If LH, FSH will be high and T will be low - problem are your balls, so you will need TRT. During taking clomid and 5-6 after, there is 90 % chance that you will feel very bad, but you have to sacrifice it to check what is cause of your problem.
4. If you are not patient-go straight to point 3.

Why would you feel bad while taking clomid? I take clomid and have felt great. Have noticed some vision sides though, so cycle on and off.

Your Point #3 is something that I've concluded too, but don't really know how to fix. I'm pretty certain that my issue are the adrenals, but don't know how to restore them. Any suggestions?

Post: #33

(02-16-2016 10:54 PM)Stun Wrote:  My GP recently ordered a Testosterone test (blood) for me without blinking. Is it more difficult to get a urine test, and is that test more accurate?

(02-17-2016 05:24 AM)Gas Wrote:  I did a blood test and I believe that's the most accurate test. Tested for Total T, Free T, Oestradiol, Vit D, LH, FSH, SHBG. Never had the urine test but I heard it's not as accurate.

Urine test is probably less accurate than a blood test, however, it has two advantages.
1) It provides an average over a 24h window, whereas the blood test only provides a snapshot. (testosterone levels fluctuate throughout the day)
2) It provides access to metabolites, that give you an idea whether your body can actually use the testosterone.

Post: #34

(02-22-2016 09:29 AM)PUA_Rachacha Wrote:  I'm pretty certain that my issue are the adrenals, but don't know how to restore them. Any suggestions?

What is your issue?
Little to no benefit of increasing your T?
Persistently low DHEAs that can hardly be raised through oral DHEA supplements?
Averse liver reaction to oral DHEA?

Post: #35

(02-22-2016 11:38 AM)PhDre Wrote:  

(02-22-2016 09:29 AM)PUA_Rachacha Wrote:  I'm pretty certain that my issue are the adrenals, but don't know how to restore them. Any suggestions?

What is your issue?
Little to no benefit of increasing your T?
Persistently low DHEAs that can hardly be raised through oral DHEA supplements?
Averse liver reaction to oral DHEA?

Definite benefit of increasing T via clomid. Better libido, increased strength, no dysthymia.

I took a four-point cortisol test in Sept. including DHEA. All were well below reference range.

I've never supplemented DHEA. I don't really know what I'm doing with this. I've gone to an endocrinologist, who told me that I'm fine and go away. I bought pregnenolone (sp?), but haven't started supplementing yet. I was thinking that if the clomid gets my balls working harder, then my balls would be producing more pregnenolone, which has downstream effects on DHEA, cortisol, mood, etc.

Thoughts?

Post: #36

^The pregnenolone produced by your balls is mostly converted to T inside your balls, and doesn't get into the bloodstream.
I think I read that roughly 90% of the circulating pregnenolone and DHEA(s) comes from the adrenals.

Since clomid (which works on the hypothalamus) works for you, have you been checked for secondary hypogonadism?
Did they check your ACTH levels or perform an ACTH stimulation test?

Post: #37

Thought I would update you gents.

Just got tested again, little over a year later.

Test 550 ng/dl
SHBG 11.5 ng/dl
Free test 103.2 pg/ml

So looks like things just corrected themselves somehow. Still would like to be up in the 700+ range but this is much less concerning. Honestly I didn't really make any huge changes, but I have been sleeping more (8-9 hours per night). Diet, exercise etc has been good as always. Feel exactly the same (probably a little more tired, actually).

Background: Tested at 580 2 years ago, then last year dipped down to 300. Freaked me out. This year back up to 550. No real noteworthy lifestyle changes. Get regular blood work fellas, will be handy in the future.

Post: #38

Why does it matter what range you are in?

Can you get a hard erection and maintain it, that is all that really matters.

Lifestyle and the food we eat plays a huge part on your Test levels.

Get sleep, don't drink, exercise, eat fruit and vegetables and limit stress. It sounds easy but for a lot of guys it is damn hard to stick to that routine.

Your too young for TRT, that is a short term fix.