Post: #26

An informal alliance with MRA's would be mutually beneficial. However, the attacks usually come from them directed at us, and not the other way around. I think Paul owes Roosh an apology before he can be taken seriously.


An overlooked part of this quarrel is the simple matter of pussy. Call me presumptuous but I'm going to go out on a limb and say the readership for AVFManginas doesn't get any. Guys who don't get pussy always have resented guys who do. And they always will. I believe this was also part of the reason Gamergater's rejected Reaxxion.

Post: #27

(01-12-2016 06:55 AM)Sumanguru Wrote:  I'm happy to see these two sections of the Manosphere at least talking. I never expect them to be united--and that's fine, I don't mind different groups talking about different things.

(01-12-2016 10:18 AM)Speculation Wrote:  I don't know why the two groups starting sledging each other in the first place. There is little benefit to throwing semi-aligned groups under the bus.

It's worth considering the history. Both times the manosphere split, it was initiated by the MRA side. First, they denounced Game as useless (not PUAs like Mystery or those other boa-wearing losers, but Game as lifestyle and self-improvement as advocated by Roosh, me, Forney, Clarey, et cetera). This time around, they're distancing themselves from the alt-right. They're taking cheap shots accusing people of being "racist" because they don't like Muslim rape gangs.

While there have been disagreements coming from our side, they were polite and civil; from them we see angry and mendacious attacks.

Post: #28

Good, now make truce with MGTOWs as well.


We have practically the same values and diagnosis of the disease, but differ in treatment.

Post: #29

(01-12-2016 07:30 PM)Aurini Wrote:  This leads to the question who is "us"?

I value MRAs, PUAs, and MGTOW (and hopefully Neomasculinity) because they are looking out for ALL MEN regardless of their race/religion/whatever. I would love to see those tribes come together for the betterment of men everywhere.

Post: #30

(01-12-2016 08:25 PM)Sumanguru Wrote:  

(01-12-2016 07:30 PM)Aurini Wrote:  This leads to the question who is "us"?

I value MRAs, PUAs, and MGTOW (and hopefully Neomasculinity) because they are looking out for ALL MEN regardless of their race/religion/whatever. I would love to see those tribes come together for the betterment of men everywhere.

There are some exceptions to ALL MEN, such as:

Game advocates (AKA PUA scam artists)
Traditional Christians/Conservatives/Free Market advocates (AKA Tradcons)
Nationalist/Neoreactionary/Alt-Right thinkers (AKA racists)

I've been writing in the 'sphere since '05, published on both RoK and AVFM, I'm well aware of what they say they support, but after studying their actions for a decade I'm forced to conclude that they don't live up to their words. It would make tactical and strategic sense for both groups to ally, but the result will be an unprovoked attack from them.

(Regarding my dismissal of PUAs: the bulk focus their business model on teaching hopeless, nerdy guys pickup lines at boot camps, rather than advocating for meaningful change. The idea is to get guys returning every summer at $300 a pop, and they're more than happy to advocate for feminism. Not all of them, obviously, but a substantial number if not majority of them are like this; for this reason I seldom think about them.)

Post: #31

Paul Elam responded on RooshV.com in the comments of Roosh's article suggesting an overture:

Paul Elam Wrote:I think a civil dialogue is in order, even though there will be several very important points of contention.

One thing that will help the friction points smooth over is more accurate information from both sides.

The notion that MHRAs (at least efforts that stem from AVFM) are somehow appeals for changes in governance, state programs, federal funding, etc, is simply ludicrous.

We do take the editorial position at AVFM of equality under the law (selective service, genital integrity), and we point to the inequities that bias heaps on men and boys, but have no organized efforts to effect such changes. We believe a shift in cultural consciousness will eventually bring those things into effect.

I spoke to part of this last summer at Ryerson University where I stated I had no desire to use government to build shelters for battered men. As I have said repeatedly over the years, "government is not the answer."

I have personally written several articles describing the mainstay of my personal philosophy a men's movement that is counter-cultural, operating in complete indifference to mainstream politics, the status quo and government.

http://www.avoiceformen.com/me...

From that article:

"The great countercultures of modern western history all have some very telling things in common. One, their members did not give a shit about the mainstream. Quite the opposite, their raison d’être, in part, was a fundamental refusal to identify with or accept mainstream sensibilities.

"The counterculture refuge from the problems that the mainstream inflicted on society was intellectual, emotional, artistic and literary. It was not in mainstream politics, mainstream jurisprudence or mainstream values. It was the kind of freedom only available in the confines of the human mind.

"Do we support people who are trying to change laws and seek political solutions for men? Sure, if it adds more apples to our basket, but we also note that the abysmal failure of those efforts is not unexpected for the time being."

More here:

http://www.avoiceformen.com/up...

And I even wrote a direct refutation of your points back in July of last year, explaining the AVFM tagline, "Changing the Cultural Narrative" here"

http://www.avoiceformen.com/a-...

How one gets from all this (or anything else I have written) that I am begging the state for rights, or lobbying for legal redress, is a mystery in need of explanation from those who further the false narrative.

Roosh, this Thursday you have agreed to come on my program for an hour and you have made clear your desire for a civil conversation. Civility you will get.

However, if your stated desire for a less acrimonious relationship between yourself and MRAs is sincere, and assuming that it is, the misinformation will have to be corrected. As denizens of this new world of male thought we owe each other the integrity of an honest dialogue.

Seems promising. Hopefully they can talk on Elam's program without having a go at each other.

Post: #32

ugh...sorry...My internet took a shit on me in the middle of writing this post...
I can only find their featured interviews...
One of them with "Blaire White"
http://www.avoiceformen.com/mens-rights/...oman-mhra/

And another one:
http://www.avoiceformen.com/hangouts/avf...ryn-meyer/

This is an article written by a FTM Tranny
http://www.avoiceformen.com/misandry/chi...-red-pill/

Post: #33

To be fair, racialism is a big part of the alt-right. A point for AVFM.

They're still wrong.

Post: #34

WB the girl in the video and/or the redhead chick.

Post: #35

(01-13-2016 02:34 AM)offthereservation Wrote:  WB the girl in the video and/or the redhead chick.

Might want to check the text under that video.

Post: #36

(01-13-2016 07:57 AM)BortimusPrime Wrote:  

(01-13-2016 02:34 AM)offthereservation Wrote:  WB the girl in the video and/or the redhead chick.

Might want to check the text under that video.

offthereservation needs to get off the reservation and over to certain places on Soi Cowboy in Bangkok

Post: #37

(01-12-2016 07:35 PM)Aurini Wrote:  They're taking cheap shots accusing people of being "racist" because they don't like Muslim rape gangs.

Not quite, after rereading they are really concern trolling people like Sargon of Akkad for being "in agreement" (he isn't really, he's like Dawkins in that he believes we can educate the dogma away) with the AltRight on Muslim Rape Gangs.

Post: #38

(01-13-2016 03:18 PM)262 Wrote:  

(01-13-2016 07:57 AM)BortimusPrime Wrote:  

(01-13-2016 02:34 AM)offthereservation Wrote:  WB the girl in the video and/or the redhead chick.

Might want to check the text under that video.

offthereservation needs to get off the reservation and over to certain places on Soi Cowboy in Bangkok

Been there

But the bangs in this case are just to show appreciation for their work and take one for the team. Would be nice if both at the same time.

Post: #39

(01-13-2016 02:34 AM)offthereservation Wrote:  WB the girl in the video and/or the redhead chick.

Post: #40

One hour and change to the livechat:

Post: #41

The amount of butthurt MGTOW's in the chat is ridiculous. All they can do is throw out labels.



"Is roosh a pua or a tradcon?"

Post: #42

Well, this is going about as well as expected.

Post: #43

Interview is done. We disagreed quite a bit but it was civil and constructive. I feel no animosity towards them so I'm sure we can coexist. I just have no interest in having wars with MRA's.

Post: #44

(01-14-2016 10:10 PM)Roosh Wrote:  Interview is done. We disagreed quite a bit but it was civil and constructive. I feel no animosity towards them so I'm sure we can coexist. I just have no interest in having wars with MRA's.

I thought your point that the different parts of the manosphere focused on different life stages for men was a good one, it was a shame you couldn't get Elam to admit his area was more for the Lester Burnham stage.

Post: #45

Paul was throwing subtle jabs from the introduction...

Post: #46

I don't think this Elam dude understands people.

He is adamant that people will listen to him when they are not interested in the subject matter. Young guys want to get laid. He thinks those young guys will listen to him tell them to be picky about who they sleep with.

Not going to happen.

You have to teach them what they want to know. While doing so, you sneak in the other things that will help them protect themselves.

Sell them what they want, give them what they need.

Post: #47

I thought it was a great dialogue. My thoughts in detail:

http://qcurtius.com/2016/01/15/the-varia...of-virtue/

Post: #48

The elephant in the room is that most men get NOTHING from women. Elam kept talking about wisdom for young men, not to get caught by a woman with personality disorder, or not to go home with that 36D girl, AS IF all guys have pussy thrown at them.

I think Roosh should have been more adamant about this, the average millennial guy is happy to get a fcking kiss in a night club once a month.
Game is NEEDED if you are from a western country. And as we have all seen with the rampages and suicides from young men, game can save lives, even if it means simple basic female interactions.

Post: #49

^^
Personally, when I have a good chance of bringing home and banging a 36D girl, I am always vigilant. Does she have a personality disorder? What if she is on prescription drugs? What are the red flags?

Said no heterosexual man ever.

Post: #50

This guy just seems like he has to have all the answers and is not willing to concede anything.

A glaring example is when he nitpicks the "10 prescription drugs girls take" article: "Some of those drugs have great therapeutic qualities, so I'd have to see the science behind that".

His main point is that guys need to be discerning about the women they sleep with, yet he disagrees that you should avoid women who need medication to balance their moods -- just because Roosh suggested it. Is an unwanted pregnancy with a woman with known psychological issues not a cause for concern? It's a complete contradiction of his entire message.

He can't stand for anyone to be right or make a point that he didn't make.