Post: #176

Since I am still relative new to the manosphere in general, I am still confused about the MGTOW movement.

I heard that MGTOW meant something else a long time ago- basically, they were guys who prioritized themselves (that is, their own well being) over women. Until some guy came, and made the MGTOW movement the thing we know today (all women are evil, men were always oppressed...).

Is that true? And are there any good sites, or Youtube channels, in which I can learn more (which lean towards our values, of course)?

Thank you.

Post: #177

(05-07-2016 05:47 AM)Irenicus Wrote:  Since I am still relative new to the manosphere in general, I am still confused about the MGTOW movement.

I heard that MGTOW meant something else a long time ago- basically, they were guys who prioritized themselves (that is, their own well being) over women. Until some guy came, and made the MGTOW movement the thing we know today (all women are evil, men were always oppressed...).

Is that true? And are there any good sites, or Youtube channels, in which I can learn more (which lean towards our values, of course)?

Thank you.

Return of Kings author and MGTOW Aaron Clarey did the video you want:

Post: #178

I think one is best developing situational MGTOW as opposed to total MGTOW however to each their own some may find total renunciation is just better for them. Example of situational MGTOW would be like say you were in Toronto, you would do well to avoid the women whereas if you were in Belarus definitely take advantage. Some people believe all women are the same no matter where they are and that is true if you take a woman in say a 3rd world country who is feminine and lovely and put her in the US she's going to morph slowly into a feminist or a more selfish version of what you were initially attracted to. If you take a fish out of water it's also not going to breathe no matter what fish you catch. The point is you can "go" your own way on to a better place where woman can be quite lovely. I'm definitely MGTOW when it comes to leaving the possibility of having a meaningful relationship with the women of my country the US. And it's been nothing short of wonderful.

Post: #179

(05-07-2016 05:47 AM)Irenicus Wrote:  Since I am still relative new to the manosphere in general, I am still confused about the MGTOW movement.

I heard that MGTOW meant something else a long time ago- basically, they were guys who prioritized themselves (that is, their own well being) over women. Until some guy came, and made the MGTOW movement the thing we know today (all women are evil, men were always oppressed...).

Is that true? And are there any good sites, or Youtube channels, in which I can learn more (which lean towards our values, of course)?

Thank you.

Post: #180

Thank you folks for the videos!

I watched quite a lot of Cappy's videos and read some of his books, and this video somehow eluded me.

Would drink beer with.


Forney was also awesome


And Jackreacher, thanks for sharing your view!

Post: #181

MGTOW is a defeatist-lifestyle. They gave up on women and therefore despise them more than they should do. They preach self-improvement, but when I look at their videos many live in crappy houses and even don't spend energy on creating good produced videos. You can hear the defeat in their voices. Not really a mindset for young men to follow. And what older men are doing calling themselves MGTOW is really crazy to me. When you have experience in life, when you have money and free-time: why are you not on some beach somewhere, or in your garage fixing cars. Just use that money you saved up all your life (going MGTOW) for some nice prostitutes when you are a dirty old man. And then stop whining about women, you 50-60 y.o

No, I know what MGTOW's are. They are the sorry excuse for people who don't put any work into getting laid. All the energy is focused in a negative way instead.

If these men really had the willpower to spread their gospel they would become comedians and make money with jokes about how slutty women are. They would write many books, create elaborate documentaries about the gender relationships etc.

Post: #182

Not to mention it styles itself as some type of quasi "asceticism" but it's really just a way to attempt to turn being a basement dweller into some badge of honor.

The guys attempt to claim they're "stronger" than other men because they don't depend on sex from women, but in reality they indulge in every easy hedonistic pleasure under the sun, whether video game addiction, Monster energy drinks, or free internet porn (how ironic that they often claim to abstain from women but openly admit to masturbating daily to porn).[/align]

It's the one pleasure they can't get if they tried (actual sex) that they demonize out of sour grapes.

If Megan Fox approached one of these guys and asked them to take her back to their apparentment and fuck her brains out, they would drop their commitment to abstinence in a nanosecond.

Post: #183

(05-07-2016 05:47 AM)Irenicus Wrote:  Since I am still relative new to the manosphere in general, I am still confused about the MGTOW movement.

I heard that MGTOW meant something else a long time ago- basically, they were guys who prioritized themselves (that is, their own well being) over women. Until some guy came, and made the MGTOW movement the thing we know today (all women are evil, men were always oppressed...).

Is that true? And are there any good sites, or Youtube channels, in which I can learn more (which lean towards our values, of course)?

Thank you.

The whole MGTOW is a bit of a mine field, especially for newcomers, as I was not so very long ago. On the face of it, it seems like the ultimate fuck you - more radical than game even, by dropping out, you are doing the most amount of damage. Would that it were true ('if only that were true', in modern English). No one cares. And of all the people that care the least, women are up at the top of the list. Other men won't respect you either, as they feel as if you have bowed out of the fight a bit too early on.

I wouldn't worry too much about this. Don't get hung up on the label. In many ways, I am indeed a man going my own way. Who among us on this forum can say any different. But we aren't MGTOW. That is another specific subset of things and not a particularly healthy one if you ask me. Just look at their screeds.

It's just semantics ultimately. No need to get hung up on it. No need to hunt people down for using the term either (in a naive manner anyway).

I personally think the whole MGTOW movement could have been a much more effective parallel force, along with our more life-affirming, combative approach. But no, they are pretty much a bunch of saps and will passive-aggressively hit out at us to let off steam or score points, so they aren't really any allies of ours. Shame really. I had this image in my mind of them wrestling bears in the wilderness, freshly caught salmon for lunch, playing their guitars, alone, by the camp fire, as they hunker down for the night once again, miles from any other human being. But I'm a hopeless romantic. :-)

It might have been very different at one point of the game, but lines have been drawn. Still, they are not out and out enemies. They are still allies of a sort and should not be discounted. As it is with the female of the species, we recognize their humanity and the reasons they ended up in the position they did. We don't trust willy-nilly, but we don't dismiss out of hand either.

This is just my take on things. I might be very wrong. I asked a similar question to you when I first joined this forum and got some very 'on-point' responses too.

Hopefully I've contributed something to the debate.

Post: #184

There are still too many elements in the manosphere that equate sexual validation from women as the necessary component to 'manhood'. Therefore there are those who dismiss men who voluntarily or involuntarily go without women as low value basement dwellers. It brings us back to the fundamental flaw of PUA in that it puts 'turbo girls' (to use an RDS term) on a pedestal owing to the amount of study, practice, in-field experience and rejection the average man needs to bare before he can spend an hour in bed with a turbo girl who was on the cock carousel anyway.

With the collapse of the numbers of women in the 18-25 age group in the marriage market, the quality of LTR material has declined in the West. Add the divorce risk, then the cost - benefit - risk analysis lends itself to the MGTOW position. This is before we add the intense competition for women of fertile years who are not a Type 2 diabetes risk.

Game is necessary but like weight lifting in the UK, it merely qualifies you to enter the dating market nothing more. Beta/ provider game has died in the West - especially for men 18 -25 who are faced with their female peers' maximum market values. Beta game becomes default game when women are 29.9999 years of age and looking for a man to sponsor their retirement from the cock carousel.

To find that 20% of extra social value to attract hypergamous 7s or 8s, a man is going to have to invest in himself and that means putting women second. This is where there is an overlap with MGTOW. Everyone here is going to experience periods of being single, especially when he is 18-25 or 40+. These are the times to prepare the fields and sew seeds for the future harvest.