Post: #151

(12-18-2015 07:53 PM)Onto Wrote:  While I don't subscribe to QC's view that life should be full of conflict and turmoil I do understand it's the real for him, and that's ok. However it's only one vision of reality. Other's yearn for calm, order and peace. That can be kind of boring, but for some that's the real. Other's strive to have both exist simultaneously, and other's believe neither should and they try and build a life modeled by that vision.

Like H1N1 says, there are many different ways to live a life, and who are we to say one's vision is better than another's. Especially if the overall goal before you die is to gain knowledge into yourSelf. Judging by the variety of human existence it seems there are many paths to doing it.

And the life you live when your in your 20's should hopefully be different than that of your teens, and your 30's different than your 20's, and your 40's different than your 30's and so on.

There are also times in your life when you need to hit the timeout button, even fall backwards. A stock market doesn't rise without pauses and setbacks.

Finally, while I do think IIMT is being a little paranoid with the global conspiracy, doomsday stuff, he isn't too far off about his fear of getting screwed over by a woman. Some guys because of their wiring and/or raising, are more prone to having bad luck with women than others (myself included). And I mean bad-luck in the sense of getting screwed over. Some guys always have good fortune in that area and then there's a lot of us who's experiences will be somewhere in-between.

And it's true, the more you see and know yourself, the more developed of a man you become, then the kind of woman you get involved with will change as well.

But before you fault a guy for being nervous or worried about getting a girl pregnant, or being divorce-raped, ask yourself if you've ever been raked real hard over the coals. And I mean really hard. If not, you have no place telling those that have, "Bro, don't be such a scardy-cat, there's nothing to worry about, man-up already"

I can tell you, at 45 with 3 more years to go of a 21 year child support sentence I am terrified of getting an American girl pregnant. That would mean my financial freedom at 48 years old would be lost and I would have to start another 21 year sentence of slaving away in an office until my mid-60s. And it's not just a monthly check, it's the medical, day-care, private school, braces, etc, etc. And then only getting to see your child 4 days a month while their Mother.....you know what....fuck it, I could go on and on, but unless you've lived though it, you just can't know. There's no substitute for experience in this area. And that's all there is to it.

Onto I have one word for you man: Vasectomy. Best thing I ever did.

Post: #152

QC is right to attack any signs of defeatism. And I will join him in attacking any defeatists who show up to spread their 'give up' message.

However, many of H1N1s points were valid criticism.

It is good that we can freely hold each other to account like this, and that we are strong enough to take these criticisms into consideration and potentially grow from them.

Post: #153

This is interesting.

So you have "it is my time" saying, that sex isn't important to him, that he has banged a lot of girls, don't need the distraction and that he is doing his work and wants to make a pile of money to possibly raise a family bubbled away from a possible dystopian paradigm.

Then you have Quintus saying his attitude stinks of the MGTOW philosophy that is copping out of life.

For a lot of men, women are a distraction, not an augmentation.

Many see sex as just a bodily function, and only have a nihlistic view of sex and that it is only a "need" and so some would rather pay for it and not go through the hassle.

Others see sex as an sensual enjoyment, a pleasurable event, even a transcendental event. A lot of men actually enjoy women, the stimulation and learning.

Yet, traditionally, women have been seen as a drain upon men, (I'm not saying I subscribe to this view) and men have often been encouraged to go celibate in order to focus their energies on presumed higher matters or persue spiritual practices.

Thing is, I don't think "it is my time" is a video game playing recalcitrant, who is giving up on life.

My thoughts are that this drive that we have, to have sex, is a real motivator for us human beings to be social animals and learn about each other. What men do naturally, it sharpens thought! The sex drive gets men and women out there in the world. Many men enjoy 'chasing girls' and the fun of that. Young men should be doing this in order to become well rounded socially calibrated men.

Men locked up in their rooms, playing video games and becoming anti-social drones I think is clearly feeding resignation and defeat. If these men were actually doing something productive and useful, and had some focus, then "their own way" would have some meaning. But as it is they largely disposable narcissistic self serving bastards of capitalistic consumer culture!

Honestly, if I lived in America, I'm not sure what I would do, I'd probably put out a dragnet for unicorns and find the one's worth focussing on. Again, not all American women are craven, difficult people who are out to bleed you dry and get them preggers.

You ideally want to find women who augment your life, not necessarily an easy thing to find in the west, but it is possible. Also, it is possible to shape them how you want them. As I said, this consumer capitalistic, pick a gal off the shelf mentality I find almost offensive.

There are women worth your time wherever you are, (is that idealistic?) and sex and good times and learning can be enjoyed.

I agree with Quintus, this idea of seeking security and money is a crap shoot, it is coming from a place of fear and insecurity which is driving so much in the west. The real test is not collecting a bunch of money and then just living the good life, but being continually challenged and actually doing some good work in the world, actually providing value to the world and truly helping people.

That is where I diverge with the MGTOW's and also a lot the people on this forum, who are only looking out for number one. Money comes and goes, it is your ability to continually keep your ship afloat the real world that makes you a man.

There is no security in this world, the bottom could fall out, the banks could all crash and then your money is worthless. All that is left is YOU, and your ability to survive and thrive right now.

The men who are getting out there and actually taking part in life are likely going to survive the crisis. Maybe it is just as well many of these MGTOW guys don't want to breed...

Post: #154

Not all men should go out and go for the challenge. You don´t want to wake up their inner Chengiz Khan, Wiking, ISIS, Nazi. It´s a difficult thing to become ballanced. It´s easy to turn to the dark side once you push boundaries. Reminds me of Churchill when he said about the Germans: “The Hun (Germans) is either at your throat or at your feet"

Post: #155

(12-21-2015 12:55 AM)tiggaling Wrote:  Thing is, I don't think "it is my time" is a video game playing recalcitrant, who is giving up on life.

Hell no I'm not. I'm so thankful I discovered a higher purpose by remaining single and not getting stuck in the typical middle class rut.

If any of you were to meet me, you would be amazed by my energy and how much of an extrovert I am. It crushes my soul to be stuck in an office staring at a computer screen. But the reality is you have to do what it takes to pay the bills, and I get paid very well to stare at a computer screen.

I hate video games and being inside. I get an unbelievable energy boost from socializing and being around other people, men and women.

Quote:There are women worth your time wherever you are, (is that idealistic?) and sex and good times and learning can be enjoyed.

There certainly are, but at my age they are very tough to find in the USA and I have no ability to leave the USA right now. Even now when I find them, they realize my age, even though many guess me to be 10 years younger, and the brainwashed American women freak out. American women are brainwashed into thinking they need a man their age or younger, but then magically this 20 something guy will have the knowledge and experience of a much older man. So the expected disaster occurs and she leaves jaded thinking "all men are scum".

Quote:There is no security in this world, the bottom could fall out, the banks could all crash and then your money is worthless. All that is left is YOU, and your ability to survive and thrive right now.

The men who are getting out there and actually taking part in life are likely going to survive the crisis. Maybe it is just as well many of these MGTOW guys don't want to breed...

IMO this is borderline giving up. "Oh, I will never make lots of money, so working harder and trying to achieve more is too hard". Life has never been easy and it never will be. And making money will never be easy and is getting much tougher with the global economic slow down and pending global economic crisis.

Do you think my decades of hard work and savings are sitting in a US bank account in $USD? Of course not. I am VERY diversified. If the end does come, rest assured, my years of hard work and saving will have put me in a much better position than most. I have used my money to purchase things that will survive a recession and also survive the worst possible.

That is the power of wealth. You can buy the most important thing, which is freedom. On top of that, you can hedge your bets on both sides of events. You care not what happens, because regardless you were prepared.

Post: #156

Very good points IIMT. Especially about money = freedom, and the amount of young, sweet and beautiful women available and intersted in a middle aged man.

The 20-something bikini model is just not availble to me here in the States. However if I were the only guy on a deserted island with 30 of them, the odds are pretty good I'll be smashing a few of them. So it makes sense to be in the environment where you have the most value.

I'm not sure the "all guys are scum" mentality comes from being pumped and dumped by a younger guy. Instead I think it's something girls are raised to believe. They are taught to never trust, depend, have faith and certainly never surrender yourself to a man because you can't trust them. This teaching provides the slight-of-hand justification for women to act in a self-interested way without having to see themselves as an ego.

They tell themselves and the world, "I have to look out for myself first because no one will do it for me."

Even Father's drill this mindset into their daughters. Albiet for different reasons.

Post: #157

(12-21-2015 08:47 AM)Onto Wrote:  Very good points IIMT. Especially about money = freedom, and the amount of young, sweet and beautiful women available and intersted in a middle aged man.

The 20-something bikini model is just not availble to me here in the States. However if I were the only guy on a deserted island with 30 of them, the odds are pretty good I'll be smashing a few of them. So it makes sense to be in the environment where you have the most value.

I'm not sure the "all guys are scum" mentality comes from being pumped and dumped by a younger guy. Instead I think it's something girls are raised to believe. They are taught to never trust, depend, have faith and certainly never surrender yourself to a man because you can't trust them. This teaching provides the slight-of-hand justification for women to act in a self-interested way without having to see themselves as an ego.

They tell themselves and the world, "I have to look out for myself first because no one will do it for me."

Even Father's drill this mindset into their daughters. Albiet for different reasons.

Thank you Onto. I don't want to get off topic but I think the reason women have the "all men are scum" attitude is a mix of a few things.

#1) Weak fathers. They are not used to being around strong man as their own fathers were not strong men who taught them right from wrong and punished them.

#2) Slut culture is every where, even in toys and cartoons.

#3) Slut culture tells all women to chase the top 10% of men. So when 100% of women chase 10% men, 10% women end up happy and 90% end up jaded.

And this was done on design.

Anyway, I am sure I could work hard enough to get around young women having no common sense and not wanting a man older than them. But it isn't worth the time and energy at this point in my life.

I am trying to build up who I want to be as a man. I believe that is the most important thing as a man. You must build your life to be independent of a woman. Then when you get to where you want to be in life, you then introduce a woman into it.

A man should build his entire life, and his castle. Then he introduces a woman to fill in the cracks and turn that castle into a loving home.

Post: #158

I'm not sure slut culture is telling women to do anything, but rathet it's a product of women living in a wealthy society where they can make their own money. This freedom allows them to indulge as much as they want without any financial reprucussions. In the case of divorce our society even gives women a financial incentive.

Go to a society where women must rely on a man for food, shelter, and protection, we'll see far more taking their behavior and relation to men much more seriously.

I respect your path of building a life and financial freedom first. As they say, "these are the earning years". Just keep an eye on the clock.

Post: #159

I don't know how the hell anyone could think that IIMT was giving up based on his writings. He seems like he has his shit together more than a lot of guys. I think that for a lot of guys, they do get derailed by getting involved with the wrong chicks instead of focusing on getting themselves straight in terms of finances, career and general emotional and mental well being. Guys like Victor Pride and Mike CF talk about this all the time, things that guys should be doing when they're younger to avoid a lot of the problems besetting American men these days. Again, I stand by my assertion that too many guys think that just getting the "right chick" or high notch counts will solve all of their problems. Problem is that, stay with the right chick long enough in America and before too long she could become the wrong chick. Women should be the side dish, not the main course and in our current slut culture, that should be easy to do especially if your in your twenties and early thirties.

Post: #160

(12-21-2015 08:08 PM)doc holliday Wrote:  I don't know how the hell anyone could think that IIMT was giving up based on his writings. He seems like he has his shit together more than a lot of guys. I think that for a lot of guys, they do get derailed by getting involved with the wrong chicks instead of focusing on getting themselves straight in terms of finances, career and general emotional and mental well being. Guys like Victor Pride and Mike CF talk about this all the time, things that guys should be doing when they're younger to avoid a lot of the problems besetting American men these days. Again, I stand by my assertion that too many guys think that just getting the "right chick" or high notch counts will solve all of their problems. Problem is that, stay with the right chick long enough in America and before too long she could become the wrong chick. Women should be the side dish, not the main course and in our current slut culture, that should be easy to do especially if your in your twenties and early thirties.

IMHO, His writing in this thread seems based on irrational fears. His reasons read more like elaborate excuses not to take action. Not direct quotes, but: Don't approach women until you've built up $5million and own a business empire. Don't move to another country where your money goes further and women are feminine because the US lets you own guns (for the time being, and despite having the most active police state in the world).

It strikes me as a thought process that is too binary. Western women today are mostly fat, crass, and terrible partners. You can take a measured approach where you enjoy local women for hookups, while traveling abroad for enjoyable experiences. They don't have to be written off entirely, and to do so deprives a man of one of life's greatest pleasures. Yes, sportfucking gets old after a while, but then you can always go to greener pastures where women are refreshingly feminine.

IIMT, don't get me wrong, I agree with much of what you write when it comes to the low quality of anglosphere women and the brutality of our economy, but I cannot fathom the logic of your proposed solution. You don't need a million dollar chunk of money to find happiness. I've found that above the necessities in life, it will not provide you with added satisfaction. It seems more like a form of ego protection to make excuses for avoiding situations that require risks, even if they provide a reward. There will never be a perfect time. The mindset loop of critical analysis is dangerous, and can lead to someone being in a permanent state of inaction. Even if I could find a place other than the US that meets all of your criteria, I suspect you would still find a reason why it wouldn't work. In the meantime, you will be grinding away in a joyless existence for decades, depriving yourself of simple pleasures to reach a nebulous goal that may never materialize. I think building up wealth is a noble goal, but not at the expense of every other area of a man's life.

I don't think anyone would want this place to be an echo chamber, but I think I can understand why Quintus is concerned about the MGTOW message. A lot of younger guys are only just starting to realize that the reality they've been sold their whole lives is a sham, and they're angry. They come to places like this looking for answers, and can be impressionable. The human condition is such that we always default to the easiest and safest route, and avoid that which asks hard work from us. If they see a message that encourages them to adopt a "fuck it" attitude, it may prevent or seriously delay their development. It's a mentality I still struggle with, and backsliding into anger over the quality of women in the US is something that I continue to fight. For a young man just entering the brutal reality of the modern world, the concept that they must fight for every victory and they must rely on themselves is a daunting one, and much more nuanced. But it is the path that will provide most the satisfaction they seek.

I leave you with a reminder from Matthew 6:19

Quote:Do not store up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moth and rust destroy, and where thieves break in and steal. But store up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust destroys, and where thieves do not break in or steal

Post: #161

(12-21-2015 09:04 PM)thoughtgypsy Wrote:  

(12-21-2015 08:08 PM)doc holliday Wrote:  I don't know how the hell anyone could think that IIMT was giving up based on his writings. He seems like he has his shit together more than a lot of guys. I think that for a lot of guys, they do get derailed by getting involved with the wrong chicks instead of focusing on getting themselves straight in terms of finances, career and general emotional and mental well being. Guys like Victor Pride and Mike CF talk about this all the time, things that guys should be doing when they're younger to avoid a lot of the problems besetting American men these days. Again, I stand by my assertion that too many guys think that just getting the "right chick" or high notch counts will solve all of their problems. Problem is that, stay with the right chick long enough in America and before too long she could become the wrong chick. Women should be the side dish, not the main course and in our current slut culture, that should be easy to do especially if your in your twenties and early thirties.

IMHO, His writing in this thread seems based on irrational fears. His reasons read more like elaborate excuses not to take action. Not direct quotes, but: Don't approach women until you've built up $5million and own a business empire. Don't move to another country where your money goes further and women are feminine because the US lets you own guns (for the time being, and despite having the most active police state in the world).

It strikes me as a thought process that is too binary. Western women today are mostly fat, crass, and terrible partners. You can take a measured approach where you enjoy local women for hookups, while traveling abroad for enjoyable experiences. They don't have to be written off entirely, and to do so deprives a man of one of life's greatest pleasures. Yes, sportfucking gets old after a while, but then you can always go to greener pastures where women are refreshingly feminine.

IIMT, don't get me wrong, I agree with much of what you write when it comes to the low quality of anglosphere women and the brutality of our economy, but I cannot fathom the logic of your proposed solution. You don't need a million dollar chunk of money to find happiness. I've found that above the necessities in life, it will not provide you with added satisfaction. It seems more like a form of ego protection to make excuses for avoiding situations that require risks, even if they provide a reward. There will never be a perfect time. The mindset loop of critical analysis is dangerous, and can lead to someone being in a permanent state of inaction. Even if I could find a place other than the US that meets all of your criteria, I suspect you would still find a reason why it wouldn't work. In the meantime, you will be grinding away in a joyless existence for decades, depriving yourself of simple pleasures to reach a nebulous goal that may never materialize. I think building up wealth is a noble goal, but not at the expense of every other area of a man's life.

I don't think anyone would want this place to be an echo chamber, but I think I can understand why Quintus is concerned about the MGTOW message. A lot of younger guys are only just starting to realize that the reality they've been sold their whole lives is a sham, and they're angry. They come to places like this looking for answers, and can be impressionable. The human condition is such that we always default to the easiest and safest route, and avoid that which asks hard work from us. If they see a message that encourages them to adopt a "fuck it" attitude, it may prevent or seriously delay their development. It's a mentality I still struggle with, and backsliding into anger over the quality of women in the US is something that I continue to fight. For a young man just entering the brutal reality of the modern world, the concept that they must fight for every victory and they must rely on themselves is a daunting one, and much more nuanced. But it is the path that will provide most the satisfaction they seek.

I leave you with a reminder from Matthew 6:19

Quote:Do not store up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moth and rust destroy, and where thieves break in and steal. But store up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust destroys, and where thieves do not break in or steal

I like your point about living a balanced lifestyle. It is truly the key for men to strive toward. I also agree with you about the way to approach the female situation in this country. It's how I approach it. It is what it is and you have to deal with it. My only point is that given the difficulties guys face here with females, I don't blame guys for not caring much about chasing these subpar women and they shouldn't be demonized for it. Especially older men who've been through the battles. For more impressionable younger guys, it's good to view and participate in a robust debate on an important philosophy as neo-masculinity. Such discussion can become the genesis of great civilizations. Or in our case here in the west, a rebirth of such a civilization. Great post

Post: #162

(12-21-2015 09:04 PM)thoughtgypsy Wrote:  You don't need a million dollar chunk of money to find happiness.

This is the one point in this thread I am going to fight tooth and nail, because as of yet, no one has who disagrees even understands where I am coming from.

The fact is, you have three choices. There is no other choice than these three....

#1) Become wealthy.
#2) Work a job(s) and live the middle class life in the USA.
#3) Move to a 2nd/3rd world country.

I am going route #1. To reiterate, NOT TO BUY THINGS, but because I want to be FREE from #2 and #3. #2 and #3 are of no interest to me and if more young men look at it reasonably many will find the same.

I have no desire to spend my life working some soul sucking job in an office, doing shit I don't want to do, being around people who are terrified of the PC police and constant layoff rotations. I have done it already nearly 2 decades and it is not only miserable, it is getting worse year by year.

And I would highly recommend not setting up shop in a 2nd/3rd world country right now. Do as you please, but don't say "no one warned me". There are books worth of great economic knowledge on this forum already, and if the global economic does expectedly melt down, I would not want to be stuck in a 2nd or 3rd world country.

Don't get me wrong, I was on the bandwagon of men traveling to other countries to meet higher quality women over 15 years ago. I've known about this for a long time. I have lots of single male friends who used to do this a lot. All the places documented on here, I can tell 2nd hand stories about to verify them. I was never able to get away, but I know full well what does exist out there. But IMO, those days are coming to an end.

Post: #163

^ I think you're right about those days coming to an end. Probably Facebook and the Internet are to blame for that. Not just the spreading of western culture, but also allowing for women to make themselves available 24/7 to every man in the world. Having a Facebook page is like having and a billboard advertisement on the highway with your number on it. The Facebook whoring I've seen by Filipinas is absolutely astounding. Maybe they just have nothing else to do, but they are now setting up women's leagues there in politics and society. That's not good.

In regards to women, I don't see how #1 of your options will help ensure you get a woman of good character. It will give you the freedom to travel the world to find one, like Travesty is attempting now. But if the reason is just to have enough money to survive divorce/child support rape...well...I can understand that, but I think a horrible experience like that affects you in other ways worse than the loss of money. Though that stings for sure.

If you have enough resources you can live in a foreign country until you decided you want to go back to the US. Just don't give up your US citizenship and keep your assets in various countries like the US, Switzerland, etc.

If you can find a good woman here in the US, then living a middle class existence isn't bad at all. One of the reasons our office job sucks so much is we often don't have a higher purpose for working it. Having a wife and family to support gives men the purpose they need to grind it out every day. Without that, and I'm in the same boat as you, a great paying office job lacks meaning. You're left with a nice sized bank account along with the question, "What is this all for?"

When it comes to purpose we can either go looking for God on our own or be God as a patriarachal family man. I think either path is fine and it really depends on the man.

Post: #164

(12-22-2015 06:49 AM)Onto Wrote:  In regards to women, I don't see how #1 of your options will help ensure you get a woman of good character. It will give you the freedom to travel the world to find one, like Travesty is attempting now. But if the reason is just to have enough money to survive divorce/child support rape...well...I can understand that, but I think a horrible experience like that affects you in other ways worse than the loss of money. Though that stings for sure.

The number of doors that open up once you have millions is amazing. I have friends at this level. If you combine it with red pill knowledge, the world is your oyster. There are no guarantees in life, you just have to work hard to better your odds.

I am very logical, the most painful thing that could happen from a divorce is I am forced back into an office job. I would probably kill myself. I am working to make sure to prevent that.

(12-22-2015 06:49 AM)Onto Wrote:  If you have enough resources you can live in a foreign country until you decided you want to go back to the US. Just don't give up your US citizenship and keep your assets in various countries like the US, Switzerland, etc.

I have no desire to live in another country. The global economy is on the verge of a melt down. I would say in 5 to 10 years. When this happens, the last place I would want to be is in a 2nd or 3rd world country.

Add to this fact that I don't have the means or ability to do so even if I wanted to.

(12-22-2015 06:49 AM)Onto Wrote:  If you can find a good woman here in the US, then living a middle class existence isn't bad at all. One of the reasons our office job sucks so much is we often don't have a higher purpose for working it. Having a wife and family to support gives men the purpose they need to grind it out every day. Without that, and I'm in the same boat as you, a great paying office job lacks meaning. You're left with a nice sized bank account along with the question, "What is this all for?"

I strongly disagree. The beta middle class life is miserable. Working in a gray cubical, doing shit I don't want to do all day long is awful. The ass kissers, the beta mentality, the you go girl bullshit, the PC nonsense, it never ends. I just want out of this nightmare. Adding a woman will not solve this, it will only make it worse.

A man must take pride in who he is and what he does. When I see most office working men, their posture, body language and tone of voice tells me they hate their job as much as I do, but they are stuck in it because they got stuck with some woman spending all their money.

If there is one thing I would tell to men in their 20's, DO NOT GET MARRIED UNTIL YOU FIND OUT WHO YOU ARE AND WHAT YOU WANT TO DO WITH YOUR LIFE.

Post: #165

(12-22-2015 03:12 AM)It_is_my_time Wrote:  

(12-21-2015 09:04 PM)thoughtgypsy Wrote:  You don't need a million dollar chunk of money to find happiness.

This is the one point in this thread I am going to fight tooth and nail, because as of yet, no one has who disagrees even understands where I am coming from.

The fact is, you have three choices. There is no other choice than these three....

#1) Become wealthy.
#2) Work a job(s) and live the middle class life in the USA.
#3) Move to a 2nd/3rd world country.

I am going route #1. To reiterate, NOT TO BUY THINGS, but because I want to be FREE from #2 and #3. #2 and #3 are of no interest to me and if more young men look at it reasonably many will find the same.

I have no desire to spend my life working some soul sucking job in an office, doing shit I don't want to do, being around people who are terrified of the PC police and constant layoff rotations. I have done it already nearly 2 decades and it is not only miserable, it is getting worse year by year.

And I would highly recommend not setting up shop in a 2nd/3rd world country right now. Do as you please, but don't say "no one warned me". There are books worth of great economic knowledge on this forum already, and if the global economic does expectedly melt down, I would not want to be stuck in a 2nd or 3rd world country.

Don't get me wrong, I was on the bandwagon of men traveling to other countries to meet higher quality women over 15 years ago. I've known about this for a long time. I have lots of single male friends who used to do this a lot. All the places documented on here, I can tell 2nd hand stories about to verify them. I was never able to get away, but I know full well what does exist out there. But IMO, those days are coming to an end.

I was just at a Christmas party where I had the chance to talk with my old roommate. He runs a website that provides him more than enough money to pay off his mortgage and invest the remainder of his money into income generating assets. It took him 2 years of hard work, not 20. He does not work in an office, and he's been living in DC, one of the most expensive cities in the US.

Ignoring China, most of the world debt has been accumulated in 1st world countries. The main thing that separates 1st world countries from the rest is a lifestyle paid for with cheap credit. Our countries have been kicking the can down the road for decades, and now the music has stopped. The countries that piled up the most debt will be affected the most. They won't be able to afford lavish militaries to interfere with sovereign nations any longer.

Some of the 2nd and 3rd tier countries are much less indebted, and have learned to get by on much less for longer than any American. They've learned to be much more anti-fragile. Even if something horrible was happening and you had to get out of dodge, you'd still most likely have plenty of warning. My Ukranian aunt just brought over her parents, more than a year after the Ukranian conflict started.

Post: #166

(12-12-2015 05:35 PM)Quintus Curtius Wrote:  Not by Sandman, whom I see as an effete, up-talking, robotic wimp.

That may sound harsh. And I have nothing against this man personally. I've never met him, corresponded with him, or communicated with him.

But I've heard his voice on a few of his videos. What I hear makes me want to reach through the computer screen and bitch-slap him.

Every sentence ends in an up-talking lilt. He also sounds like an asexual robot. That guy needs to get his prong worked on by sexy chick, and needs to start lifting weights.

I'd never heard of that guy before but just checked out the intro video. Not sure about the uptalking part but wow, the strong Toronto accent plus whatever it is about his speech cadence definitely makes him sound like an asexual robot. With 42k followers he's probably managed some level of income stream from his defeatist channel, so I wouldn't expect him to change his tune anytime soon.

Post: #167

(12-22-2015 07:39 AM)thoughtgypsy Wrote:  I was just at a Christmas party where I had the chance to talk with my old roommate. He runs a website that provides him more than enough money to pay off his mortgage and invest the remainder of his money into income generating assets. It took him 2 years of hard work, not 20. He does not work in an office, and he's been living in DC, one of the most expensive cities in the US.

Ignoring China, most of the world debt has been accumulated in 1st world countries. The main thing that separates 1st world countries from the rest is a lifestyle paid for with cheap credit. Our countries have been kicking the can down the road for decades, and now the music has stopped. The countries that piled up the most debt will be affected the most. They won't be able to afford lavish militaries to interfere with sovereign nations any longer.

Some of the 2nd and 3rd tier countries are much less indebted, and have learned to get by on much less for longer than any American. They've learned to be much more anti-fragile. Even if something horrible was happening and you had to get out of dodge, you'd still most likely have plenty of warning. My Ukranian aunt just brought over her parents, more than a year after the Ukranian conflict started.

Very good for your former roommate. He sounds like a very hard working and lucky young man. I have been in IT for nearly 20 years. For every guy I know with such a story, I know 9 more that tried and failed. I am one of them. I had a group of people with a great online business idea and we built an e-commerce website for it. Unfortunately for us, someone else beat us to the punch and all our time and money invested was lost.

It was already tough to make it, but after 8 years of economic free fall, it is far tougher. 20 years is quick in this day and age, don't be too quick to think it is easy to make lots of money, it isn't.

Many 2nd and 3rd world countries you guys choose to visit depend heavily on the USA. Whether to buy their exports or even directly for aid. If the US economy falls off a cliff, the entire world will as well. And everyone will take a dive. Being in a poor country after this would not be recommended, at least not by me.

Post: #168

Sorry if this sounds harsh, but I can't not reply:

(12-17-2015 01:03 PM)It_is_my_time Wrote:  With money and red pill knowledge you have lots of advantages as a man.

#1) You will have the free time and resources to search through and find the best of the best women. Your money gives you access to them, your red pill knowledge allows you to make the best choice.

#2) With money your wife can enjoy being a mommy. Shopping sprees, stay at home with the kids, PTO, low stress, no office crap. This makes for a much happier marriage.

#3) Money will put your wife in social circles above the frumpy divorced lizard who talks their "friends" into getting divorces too.

And if all this fails, then you did your best. Take your half of your large sum and spend as much time as allowed with your kids. The rest of the time just do as you please, because you never have to worry about getting married again.

That would have to be the most delusional thing I've heard in a long time. $5 mil isn't going to impress anyone and the only women it will provide access to are mid-level hookers and gold diggers. Nor will it put your future wife in some kind of mythical, protected social circle where the women aren't driven by their tingles (or lack thereof). You think the average middle-aged doctor/lawyer/executive lays around all day sipping piña coladas and getting his feet licked by eager 9s?



As for "red pill knowledge" - either you don't have it or you're choosing not to believe it. If you were red pill, you wouldn't be making so many excuses for your scarcity mentality... women are a distraction, I need money to make them like me, the economy's going to collapse, it's too risky, I don't have time, foreign women are running out, the sky is falling, etc.

(12-22-2015 03:12 AM)It_is_my_time Wrote:  Don't get me wrong, I was on the bandwagon of men traveling to other countries to meet higher quality women over 15 years ago. I've known about this for a long time. I have lots of single male friends who used to do this a lot. All the places documented on here, I can tell 2nd hand stories about to verify them. I was never able to get away, but I know full well what does exist out there. But IMO, those days are coming to an end.

You've never been, but you think you know what's out there and that the foreign women are running out. Where's the red-pill abundance mentality in that?

(12-22-2015 03:12 AM)It_is_my_time Wrote:  And I would highly recommend not setting up shop in a 2nd/3rd world country right now. Do as you please, but don't say "no one warned me". There are books worth of great economic knowledge on this forum already, and if the global economic does expectedly melt down, I would not want to be stuck in a 2nd or 3rd world country.

There is nothing preventing a man who makes his money in Russia/China/South America keeping it in Swiss banks, buying real estate in strong, safe markets, investing in gold, obtaining multiple passports, etc. He could easily be in a more stable situation than you.
There are plenty of risks in Mighty America too... taxes, regulatory changes, divorce rape, litigation culture, real estate bubbles, etc. pose risks to your stability.

The only people who are "stuck" anywhere are the blue-pillers who conjure up inane excuses to justify their defeatist mentalities.

Post: #169

(12-22-2015 01:13 PM)DaveR Wrote:  That would have to be the most delusional thing I've heard in a long time. $5 mil isn't going to impress anyone and the only women it will provide access to are mid-level hookers and gold diggers. Nor will it put your future wife in some kind of mythical, protected social circle where the women aren't driven by their tingles (or lack thereof). You think the average middle-aged doctor/lawyer/executive lays around all day sipping piña coladas and getting his feet licked by eager 9s?



As for "red pill knowledge" - either you don't have it or you're choosing not to believe it. If you were red pill, you wouldn't be making so many excuses for your scarcity mentality... women are a distraction, I need money to make them like me, the economy's going to collapse, it's too risky, I don't have time, foreign women are running out, the sky is falling, etc.

I guess I have to say it yet again. I don't want $5,000,000 to impress anyone. I have said this a few times in this thread already, and I will say it again.

I WANT MONEY FOR FREEDOM. I could careless about material things, I want enough money to be free from working and still provide for a family in the USA.

You are free to your opinion on what is or what is not red pill. I completely disagree with your analysis.

(12-22-2015 01:13 PM)DaveR Wrote:  You've never been, but you think you know what's out there and that the foreign women are running out. Where's the red-pill abundance mentality in that?

I have no idea if foreign women are running out or not. Now you are putting another posters words in my mouth. I know the fun times that are overseas. I cheer on you guys going overseas to find this fun. But I am against going myself due to the coming economic collapse.

(12-22-2015 01:13 PM)DaveR Wrote:  There is nothing preventing a man who makes his money in Russia/China/South America keeping it in Swiss banks, buying real estate in strong, safe markets, investing in gold, obtaining multiple passports, etc. He could easily be in a more stable situation than you.
There are plenty of risks in Mighty America too... taxes, regulatory changes, divorce rape, litigation culture, real estate bubbles, etc. pose risks to your stability.

The only people who are "stuck" anywhere are the blue-pillers who conjure up inane excuses to justify their defeatist mentalities.

Think about the bigger picture, if the global economy does melt down and you are in Brazil or Russia, will their infrastructure survive it? Will there still be airports operating to get you out of there safely? Will there be police to maintain order? You are a foreigner in a foreign land and the risks involved in this situation are completely unknown due to the what is obviously coming.

Post: #170

(12-22-2015 01:28 PM)It_is_my_time Wrote:  I guess I have to say it yet again. I don't want $5,000,000 to impress anyone. I have said this a few times in this thread already, and I will say it again.

I WANT MONEY FOR FREEDOM. I could careless about material things, I want enough money to be free from working and still provide for a family in the USA.

You are free to your opinion on what is or what is not red pill. I completely disagree with your analysis.

If you really want to make money for freedom above all else, that is a fair plan. However, your earlier posts indicated something completely different - your belief that money will give you access to better women. Your words: "Your money gives you access to them" and "Money will put your wife in social circles". It doesn't and it won't. Anyone on this forum who is already independently wealthy will tell you that is, at the very least, a misguided assumption.

In my view, instead of turning oneself into an asexual MGTOW for 30 years in the hope of saving enough money to retire early, a more sensible plan would be to start a business or find a different line of work that is enjoyable.

(12-22-2015 01:28 PM)It_is_my_time Wrote:  I have no idea if foreign women are running out or not. Now you are putting another posters words in my mouth. I know the fun times that are overseas. I cheer on you guys going overseas to find this fun. But I am against going myself due to the coming economic collapse.

It was your assertion that "IMO, those days are coming to an end." What do you mean by that, and what have you based it on? Have you even been to any of the countries in question?
If you're referring to the "coming economic crisis"... Deep economic crises usually have a positive impact on gender relations. Case in point: all of post-1991 Eastern Europe.

(12-22-2015 01:28 PM)It_is_my_time Wrote:  Think about the bigger picture, if the global economy does melt down and you are in Brazil or Russia, will their infrastructure survive it? Will there still be airports operating to get you out of there safely? Will there be police to maintain order? You are a foreigner in a foreign land and the risks involved in this situation are completely unknown due to the what is obviously coming.

I don't know much about Brazil, but I can tell you a bit about Russia after living here for a decade. Russians are calm people. Protests/riots are very rare and not dangerous as long as you're not a homosexual or Muslim immigrant. 1990-1992 wasn't overly dangerous for the general population, nor was any other event in Russia's modern history. Electricity and water continued to run, transport still worked, planes still landed.

For preppers, it isn't a problem to install and fill gas and diesel tanks. Bore water is very clean where I am. We're allowed to own guns, including semi-automatics, and there aren't any limits on magazine sizes nor ammunition stocks.

As far as the "coming economic collapse" is concerned... you won't be any safer in the US than I am in Russia. What are you going to do when an LA-style race riot or Ferguson comes to where you live and the Police choose not to control it?

Post: #171

(12-22-2015 04:13 PM)DaveR Wrote:  If you really want to make money for freedom above all else, that is a fair plan. However, your earlier posts indicated something completely different - your belief that money will give you access to better women. Your words: "Your money gives you access to them" and "Money will put your wife in social circles". It doesn't and it won't. Anyone on this forum who is already independently wealthy will tell you that is, at the very least, a misguided assumption.

In my view, instead of turning oneself into an asexual MGTOW for 30 years in the hope of saving enough money to retire early, a more sensible plan would be to start a business or find a different line of work that is enjoyable.

Money does give you access to higher quality women. High quality women are not out chasing janitors.

Well, if you read this thread, you will see I have not been an asexual MGTOW for 30 years. I had more than my fair share of fun up through college.

You said you have been in Russia for 10 years. So you don't fully appreciate how rough things are in the US economically. Right now I am just happy to even have a job and I often wonder when they will hire a H-1B visa Indian to replace me.

(12-22-2015 04:13 PM)DaveR Wrote:  It was your assertion that "IMO, those days are coming to an end." What do you mean by that, and what have you based it on? Have you even been to any of the countries in question?
If you're referring to the "coming economic crisis"... Deep economic crises usually have a positive impact on gender relations. Case in point: all of post-1991 Eastern Europe.

Well of course deep economic crisis make women appreciate men again. My point is no one knows what will happen, but those who follow economics know that we can't just keep boring money forever to pay off rich donors and welfare voters.

(12-22-2015 04:13 PM)DaveR Wrote:  I don't know much about Brazil, but I can tell you a bit about Russia after living here for a decade. Russians are calm people. Protests/riots are very rare and not dangerous as long as you're not a homosexual or Muslim immigrant. 1990-1992 wasn't overly dangerous for the general population, nor was any other event in Russia's modern history. Electricity and water continued to run, transport still worked, planes still landed.

For preppers, it isn't a problem to install and fill gas and diesel tanks. Bore water is very clean where I am. We're allowed to own guns, including semi-automatics, and there aren't any limits on magazine sizes nor ammunition stocks.

As far as the "coming economic collapse" is concerned... you won't be any safer in the US than I am in Russia. What are you going to do when an LA-style race riot or Ferguson comes to where you live and the Police choose not to control it?

That is very good for you. You should be safe in Russia if the economy does collapse. I don't know if I will be safer in the USA than you in Russia, nor vice versa, nor do I care either. I care where I will be safer, and for me I will be far safer in the USA.

Post: #172

One simple thing that should be kept in mind is that no matter what your goals are in life..financial or otherwise you can't buy back time. There's a fine balance between use of your time for monetary gain and those spent in activities to live as a man and as a person.

I've found that the reason why so many senior citizens are angry fucks is poor health but the biggest one it seems is regret.

Post: #173

(12-22-2015 07:52 AM)SlickyBoy Wrote:  

(12-12-2015 05:35 PM)Quintus Curtius Wrote:  Not by Sandman, whom I see as an effete, up-talking, robotic wimp.

That may sound harsh. And I have nothing against this man personally. I've never met him, corresponded with him, or communicated with him.

But I've heard his voice on a few of his videos. What I hear makes me want to reach through the computer screen and bitch-slap him.

Every sentence ends in an up-talking lilt. He also sounds like an asexual robot. That guy needs to get his prong worked on by sexy chick, and needs to start lifting weights.

I'd never heard of that guy before but just checked out the intro video. Not sure about the uptalking part but wow, the strong Toronto accent plus whatever it is about his speech cadence definitely makes him sound like an asexual robot. With 42k followers he's probably managed some level of income stream from his defeatist channel, so I wouldn't expect him to change his tune anytime soon.

Yeah, this sandman guy is not watchable without the urge to anna him shake at some point.

But check out this guy - for instance, he seems for me way more grounded, not hatred and to be honest like a cool dude who has his shit together with many areas in a man's life such as women, money and emotions.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WPiaMVacvbw

am I so off, by saying that I find this dude actually kinda cool? xD

ah and by the way, merry christmas to all of you!

Post: #174

Here's my two-cents on why MGTOWs are looked down upon:

They act like they're "evolved" because they've chosen to opt out of the game. They fail to understand that life itself is a game, and not to play isn't winning, but merely playing the game poorly. MGTOWs aren't rejecting women. Women reject the type of men who become MGTOWs and MGTOWs respond by pretending their celibacy was a voluntary choice.

Game is hard work. It's much easier to flip the table when the game isn't going your way instead of taking your lumps and learning the fine art of self-improvement. Essentially, these guys are lazy and have a pessimistic, defeatist attitude all while projecting an air of being holier than thou.

MGTOWs apparently view life as a strange game, where as posited in that old movie "WarGames," the only winning move is not to play. That may be a sensible strategy when it comes to attempting to avert Global Thermonuclear War, but when it comes to dealing with the opposite sex, being unwilling to risk failure or defeat isn't noble. There will be times you play the game and times the game plays you, but you live and learn. I quote Robert Greene, “Think of it this way: There are two kinds of failure. The first comes from never trying out your ideas because you are afraid, or because you are waiting for the perfect time. This kind of failure you can never learn from, and such timidity will destroy you. The second kind comes from a bold and venturesome spirit. If you fail in this way, the hit that you take to your reputation is greatly outweighed by what you learn. Repeated failure will toughen your spirit and show you with absolute clarity how things must be done.”

It becomes quite clear after reading this, MGTOWs are failures of the first type. The rest of us, men who have swallowed the red pill, may fail at times but we grow from it and become better than we started. I don't have a problem with the MGTOW concepts of not relegating ourselves to solely being women's protectors and providers, but we can avoid putting ourselves in such scenarios not yielding enough return for our investment through the proper execution of game, not by running away from women and thus completely depriving ourselves of the enjoyment they can bring when managed correctly.

Post: #175

From what I have seen MGTOW is just a quasi-cult which is a counterpart to radical feminism for overweight, virginal men. The basic premises:

*Gender roles are just an oppressive social construct designed to oppress men (basically just the radical feminist/Marxist view of the world but with the genders reversed)

*Men should shun traditional gender roles or relationships with women entirely because they just encourage men to make themselves attractive in order to please women (basically the same as the Andrea Dworkin/Valerie Solanas view of the world); they also veer into "victimhood" movements like "fat acceptance"; I think I even saw some of them advocate that men go homosexual as an alternative to straight relationships a la the "lesbian separatists"

*They claim that gender roles are just an oppressive social construct but shame men who (gasp) pursue traditional relationships or sex by attacking their manhood, ex. calling them "manginas" or "white knights" showing how much of a joke it all is

*Any movement that basically advocates that the entire human race should stop repopulating and die off is stupid - is any explanation needed?

And just going by personal experience, I've met 2 guys online who indentified with MGTOW - one was a hardcore left-wing male feminist who got burned out on women when the entire "nice guy" routine didn't work out. The other was a 50 year old man living on disability who was a Minecraft addict and fan of tenticle porn anime and Taylor Swift. Nuff said