Post: #126

Thank you for the kind thoughts and words H1N1 and CleanSlate.

I just want to reiterate a few points...

1) Each man must find his own path. That is the real beauty of life. It doesn't matter where you were born, or what you were born with, each man must find his own path to happiness. And for each man that is different. I certainly do not wish to tell anyone else how to live their life. I will give advice if asked, and I hope my views do help open up some minds to different possibilities.

2) If Quintus Curtius is helping young men learn to how to meet and pick up chicks, then I cheer him on! It is tough for young men to figure out women and to become confident and comfortable. I had older friends show me the ropes when I was younger. But it was MUCH easier back in the 1990's. If QC is putting his time into helping younger men improve their lives and help them take steps towards becoming men, then he has my full respect. We may not see eye to eye, but I have a lot of respect for any man that wants to help other young men navigate this anti-male system.

3) I'm not going to pretend I have always been some Buddhist Monk. Until the age of 22, I had as much fun as possible. Picking up women in the 1990's was much easier and it was much more worth while. The fun I had in college probably isn't even allowed these days. I had a blast. I just realized how much I hated working a middle class job and I decided to focus on solving that life problem first. Unfortunately, 8 years into the process the economy crashed and now here we are 8 years later with still a shit economy. But I will NOT quit. I am NOT a quitter. I will achieve my goals and I believe all you can achieve your goals. You are all at the best forum in the internet, to learn knowledge worth more than you can ever imagine. You can do anything you want thanks to the great knowledge you can learn on this forum.

Post: #127

This isn't specific to It is my time. I appreciate his candor on this topic.

I have always achieved far more when I wasn't routinely seeing a woman. Even going out to meet women ended up taking more time from other things. Especially when I drank and had to recover the next day.

It was a lot of fun, make no mistake, but didn't do much for being productive in other aspects of my life that were becoming more and more important.

The worst was when I was married. It was a very short affair even though it felt like decades. I felt like those were some wasted years when it comes to building the life I wanted.

Do I consider the time spent with women wasted?

No, even though it may seem that way. Every experience has helped me develop a better sense of myself.

When you're younger, you think you know what you want, when you will get it, and how great it will be. It isn't until you start living, start experiencing, that you find out what you truly want.

We are all going to have to work unless you were born with a silver spoon. There is no other reality. I worked crazy hours right out of college. 80 hours was becoming routine. Luckily, I was making a lot of money because I renegotiated to an hourly rate.

I was miserable. I was drinking a lot after work just to get rid of the stress.

I ended up walking away from it even though many said I should keep with it because the money was more than they ever saw.

I ended up building my own business and have been doing it for the past 10 or so years.

I love it. I don't count the hours spent because I enjoy it and understand it is my asset.

I am working more than usual due to getting some projects out, but I still enjoy going out, meeting new people. Not to mention the times where I trip, fall and my penis accidentally falls into some vaginal fluids.

Those experiences are still important to me. No matter how much grey shows up in my stubble, I am still learning about myself through those experiences.

I would say to people that they need to find a passion that will bring in money. Once you find that passion, it's a whole new world and you don't feel the need to count down the clock to something better. You're already living it.

It's not easy. It isn't the safe way. I have failed and started over many times. I just feel blessed and enjoy what everyday day brings me.

Post: #128

While I don't subscribe to QC's view that life should be full of conflict and turmoil I do understand it's the real for him, and that's ok. However it's only one vision of reality. Other's yearn for calm, order and peace. That can be kind of boring, but for some that's the real. Other's strive to have both exist simultaneously, and other's believe neither should and they try and build a life modeled by that vision.

Like H1N1 says, there are many different ways to live a life, and who are we to say one's vision is better than another's. Especially if the overall goal before you die is to gain knowledge into yourSelf. Judging by the variety of human existence it seems there are many paths to doing it.

And the life you live when your in your 20's should hopefully be different than that of your teens, and your 30's different than your 20's, and your 40's different than your 30's and so on.

There are also times in your life when you need to hit the timeout button, even fall backwards. A stock market doesn't rise without pauses and setbacks.

Finally, while I do think IIMT is being a little paranoid with the global conspiracy, doomsday stuff, he isn't too far off about his fear of getting screwed over by a woman. Some guys because of their wiring and/or raising, are more prone to having bad luck with women than others (myself included). And I mean bad-luck in the sense of getting screwed over. Some guys always have good fortune in that area and then there's a lot of us who's experiences will be somewhere in-between.

And it's true, the more you see and know yourself, the more developed of a man you become, then the kind of woman you get involved with will change as well.

But before you fault a guy for being nervous or worried about getting a girl pregnant, or being divorce-raped, ask yourself if you've ever been raked real hard over the coals. And I mean really hard. If not, you have no place telling those that have, "Bro, don't be such a scardy-cat, there's nothing to worry about, man-up already"

I can tell you, at 45 with 3 more years to go of a 21 year child support sentence I am terrified of getting an American girl pregnant. That would mean my financial freedom at 48 years old would be lost and I would have to start another 21 year sentence of slaving away in an office until my mid-60s. And it's not just a monthly check, it's the medical, day-care, private school, braces, etc, etc. And then only getting to see your child 4 days a month while their Mother.....you know what....fuck it, I could go on and on, but unless you've lived though it, you just can't know. There's no substitute for experience in this area. And that's all there is to it.

Post: #129

(12-18-2015 07:53 PM)Onto Wrote:  I can tell you, at 45 with 3 more years to go of a 21 year child support sentence I am terrified of getting an American girl pregnant. That would mean my financial freedom at 48 years old would be lost and I would have to start another 21 year sentence of slaving away in an office until my mid-60s. And it's not just a monthly check, it's the medical, day-care, private school, braces, etc, etc. And then only getting to see your child 4 days a month while their Mother.....you know what....fuck it, I could go on and on, but unless you've lived though it, you just can't know. There's no substitute for experience in this area. And that's all there is to it.

It comes down to modern day slave labor. It isn't about the welfare of the kids, but about getting the most assets out of the man.

I have a friend who knocked up a one night stand. He got very lucky and I remind him of that every time I see him. She is a decent person and didn't rake him over the coals.

Still, the idea that the one night could find you with 18+ years of financial struggle should always be in every western man's thoughts.

Post: #130

(12-18-2015 07:53 PM)Onto Wrote:  I can tell you, at 45 with 3 more years to go of a 21 year child support sentence I am terrified of getting an American girl pregnant. That would mean my financial freedom at 48 years old would be lost

Mate, get a vasectomy!

Best thing I ever did.

Post: #131

(12-18-2015 07:53 PM)Onto Wrote:  Finally, while I do think IIMT is being a little paranoid with the global conspiracy, doomsday stuff, he isn't too far off about his fear of getting screwed over by a woman.

I got screwed over hard, because I set myself up for it, by white knighting, being the productive Beta, pedestaling and swallowing societies blue pill programming.

If I had my time again, or if I had advice to give a young man starting off (who wanted to have a marriage and kids etc) then do this:

Only put in what you can lose.

It only hurts to get divorced raped if it was 100% your work that gets taken. If the courts award 80% of assets, only put in 20% effort. Make the woman put her share in... Don't invest what you can't afford to lose.

Post: #132

(12-18-2015 06:17 PM)H1N1 Wrote:  I think it is a shame, Quintus, to see a respected member of the forum being so smug and condescending to another respected member simply because you do not personally find value in his world view, and I would like to challenge you on a number of your points.

I don't want this to be overly personal, but from the information you make public on twitter, here and instagram, you appear to be an older man, over 40 I'd guess and still apparently unmarried and seemingly childless. As one of these impressionable young men who needs saving from the evils of viewpoints like IIMT's, I'm not honestly sure I'm buying what your selling either. The idea of being in my forties, still wearing a young man's clothes, still without a wife or child, seems terribly sad to me - particularly if it is not a consequence of noble aspirations such as IIMT's, that he should only have children at a point that he is able to fully honour that responsibility.

You seem to be advocating the totalitarian and condescending idea that those of us who are younger should not be exposed to opinions such as IIMT's, in case we should find some truth or satisfaction in them, when you do not resort to mocking gifs and playground taunts. Most of what you say in this thread seems to revolve around, 'I get laid more than you so I'm right and you're wrong', since other than his choices with women, IIMT doesn't appear to be doing anything other than what is recommended by 'the Red Pill'. Again, as I said earlier in this thread, I think part of the reason MGTOW is so ridiculed in the manosphere is because it forces uncomfortable self-reflection, and acceptance that the only real difference between the two is that one has more sex.

It also seems, as a casual reader, that perhaps your own attachment to 'neo-masculinity', and the creation of an ideology (with accompanying e-book, no doubt), leaves you so unable to accept that what is right for one man is not necessarily right for another. Just as many may not be convinced that there is any substantial merit in a codified neo-masculinity, I suspect that I would not be alone in finding your one size fits all, 'good life in 140 characters or less' philosophy for living all that satisfying either. With different academic, physical, and temperamental gifts, we are all likely to find meaning in a variety of ways. To dismiss a smart, patient, and reasonable man as hamstering because you don't agree with his personal choices, or because you see yourself as the self-appointed guardian of all us impressionable young men, is particularly unbecoming.

I will never hesitate to denounce any philosophy that smacks of defeatism, resignation, or despair. I will never hesitate to ridicule, mock, or castigate any doctrine that I think doesn't serve the best interests of men.

Am I presumptuous to say that I know what is in the best interests of young guys?

Yes, I am.

Am I attempting to push my views of the world on others?

Yes, I am.

But my opinions are based on real world experience. Not make-believe experience. I've earned the right to offer strong opinions.

And if you expect me to apologize for that, you're going to be disappointed. I will never apologize for my zeal in advocating what I believe and know to be correct.

There is no wishy-washy half stepping here.

And if pictures of me on Instagram bother you, or the types of T-shirts I wear bother you, or the fact that I publish books bothers you, then maybe you need to take a good look at your own self.

You say I employ playground insults? Maybe. But sometimes that's what it takes to get people moving. I'll never give up on people, unless they quit first. I'll always be there for guys who are trying. It doesn't matter if they fail. But anyone who is a quitter or a pack-dropper, should be ripped into.

Sometimes people need to be kicked in the ass. Sometimes they need to a good hard dose of verbal encouragement.

I don't accept this idea that "what's right for some is not right for others." Bullshit. Some things have universal, general applicability.

I'm not going to let guys just slink off into a corner and hide. I'm not going to just sit by and tell you it's OK for you to be slime-bag. I'm not going to say it's OK for you to give up.

And living a healthy, balanced life is common sense. No man who forsakes the key pleasures of life can be called whole, as I see it.

Maybe if the people running this society had taken this sort of no-compromise attitude, we wouldn't all be in the position we're in now.

Do you call me a fanatic?

Wonderful! I am proud of the title. It is an honorable title.

.

Post: #133

The easiest way to realize that MGTOW are losers is to just look at the guys who actually practice it. Watch some of them talk on YouTube and it should open your eyes. It's a bizarre collection of gamma and omega males and I don't think it's any coincidence these guys are never really studly or charismatic guys. As long as you aren't totally inept socially you'll see how creepy these guys vibes are.

Post: #134

I agree with QC.

I'll also add that MGTOW has no place on this forum, since it does smack of giving up. MGTOW trolls should be banned from here on out - go sulk somewhere else.

If MGTOWers want to know why they are ridiculed, they should ask themselves first. The onus is on them to earn respect, not for us to accept them any more than we accept fat chicks.

Post: #135

That does sound like buying into the feminine frame of how to value yourself, though.

Post: #136

(12-18-2015 12:38 PM)Quintus Curtius Wrote:  You can still "go your own way" and "do your own thing" and not give up on sex. Why does it have to be an "all or nothing" proposition? The MGTOW guys never can answer this question. They have no balance in their lives.

.

I could not agree more with this.
But to be fair, also in this MGTOW community it is not everything so black and white and there are actually some people who have a well balanced lifestyle with a rich sex-life.

They are just convinced that marriages and in many cases also LTRs are in today's world not the best investment for men and here they are just right, we all have to admit.
Numbers and facts do not lie, so quick look at the divorce rates and the divorce laws is enough to come to the same conclusion combined with some knowledge about female nature ehich every red pill men anyways have.

Still I dont think that denying your biological imperativ and sex drive (yeah it gets lower with age and I tuned only 30 but I have many older friends in their 50s and they still appreciate a good fuck on a regular basis - so this biological sex drive never disappears of course) is the way to go.
I think for me the masterplan in todays world is:
- putting yourself above everything else and pursuing your goals, fullfilling yourself, betterin yourself, and the list goes on
- enjoying sex with many hot cool female women with no commitment
- BUT: not joining in the current state any commitment, serious LTRs if possible and for sure no marriages.

Post: #137

I do think that the one problem I see here is the over emphasis on female companionship and wooing and seducing women as a means of obtaining self-validation. For young guys who have their testosterone raging, yes getting as good as you can at meeting and having sex with women is important so that you get your biological urges taken care and so that you maintain your sanity. You don't want to end up going mad and shooting a bunch of people because you can't get laid. Its also important because as you get older, being socially comfortable and aware will help you in your career, starting a business venture etc, which will ultimately allow you to make more money and live a better life as a result. However, what ends up happening to a lot of guys is that they make women the focal point of their life which often leads to bad things like knocking up the wrong chick, STDs, messy drama situations with crazy women and so on.

For older guys like myself who have been to hell and back with their women via divorce, its unfair to tell these guys that in order to live a full life they need some bitches in their life and if they don't, they're losers who aren't reaching their full potential. I can only speak for myself but as far as the female scene goes in my life, I really enjoy meeting and flirting with different chicks but its not the most important thing to me. I have my kids,my business, and my great friendships as my legacy to focus on and any female that comes into my life will be a peripheral interest at best. She certainly won't be at the center of my life because I don't need her to be, nor do I want her to be. Most likely, she'll be sharing me with another chick, or two. So many guys after getting divorced, jump right back in to another relationship and remarry because they can't handle being alone without female "companionship". These guys are more pathetic than anything else and end up worse off than if they'd MGTOWed.

A lot of men on here write about how their dream is to eventually have a family with a loyal wife and a few kids. I get it, its what we were put on this earth for so I understand when this is made to be a key component of neo-masculinity. The problem though is that most of the guys who strongly advocate for this don't know what modern family life entails since they've never lived it as the head of a household. If you took most men out of their single lives and put them at the head of a modern American family for one weekend with all that comes with it, most of them would be crying, begging to be returned to their simple bachelor lives. Now imagine a scenario where you take these same guys and plant them into a family where the women has just initiated a divorce. They'll soon know the meaning of hell. I speak from experience here.

This post may not be what people want to hear and some may consider it to be the antithesis of the neo-masculinity ideology but the idea that masculinity is intimately tied to how many chicks you bang or how many women swoon in your presence is something I have difficulty accepting. A lot of guys would be better off taking the focus off of women and focusing on themselves instead. Again, I speak from years of experience here.

Post: #138

(12-18-2015 09:40 PM)Quintus Curtius Wrote:  I will never hesitate to denounce any philosophy that smacks of defeatism, resignation, or despair. I will never hesitate to ridicule, mock, or castigate any doctrine that I think doesn't serve the best interests of men.

Am I presumptuous to say that I know what is in the best interests of young guys?

Yes, I am.

Am I attempting to push my views of the world on others?

Yes, I am.

But my opinions are based on real world experience. Not make-believe experience. I've earned the right to offer strong opinions.

And if you expect me to apologize for that, you're going to be disappointed. I will never apologize for my zeal in advocating what I believe and know to be correct.

There is no wishy-washy half stepping here.

And if pictures of me on Instagram bother you, or the types of T-shirts I wear bother you, or the fact that I publish books bothers you, then maybe you need to take a good look at your own self.

You say I employ playground insults? Maybe. But sometimes that's what it takes to get people moving. I'll never give up on people, unless they quit first. I'll always be there for guys who are trying. It doesn't matter if they fail. But anyone who is a quitter or a pack-dropper, should be ripped into.

Sometimes people need to be kicked in the ass. Sometimes they need to a good hard dose of verbal encouragement.

I don't accept this idea that "what's right for some is not right for others." Bullshit. Some things have universal, general applicability.

I'm not going to let guys just slink off into a corner and hide. I'm not going to just sit by and tell you it's OK for you to be slime-bag. I'm not going to say it's OK for you to give up.

And living a healthy, balanced life is common sense. No man who forsakes the key pleasures of life can be called whole, as I see it.

Maybe if the people running this society had taken this sort of no-compromise attitude, we wouldn't all be in the position we're in now.

Do you call me a fanatic?

Wonderful! I am proud of the title. It is an honorable title.

.

I think you reason like a fanatic, that is to say, you provide a lot of sound and fury, yet signify nothing. Like all fanatics, you appear to have embraced an idea of yourself, and found a platform to give voice to it. The ideology itself, like any good ideology, seems short on detail, thin on ideas, but delivered at full volume.

Your opinions are based on your real world experience, with all your strengths and limitations that give colour to your interpretations. You have an opinion; you have 'earned the right', if you like to think of it like that, to voice it. But it is only an opinion, and many of us do not recognise what you call truth. A man your age who has no wife or child has conspicuously failed to show himself capable of long term commitment to an idea, or an ability to transcend his own ego. The schoolboy posturing and the GAP Kids attire are merely illustrative of the fundamental hollowness of your ideological fantasy. It is the ideology of Peter Pan and the lost boys. You have no skin in the game of the future, because you still have no responsibilities beyond yourself. Having failed to show this ability to commit to an idea and see it through, why should anyone believe it would be any different with your neo-masculinity. If you seek to advance an ideology, and purport to hold objective truths, then you yourself must be credible. Indeed, it seems rather like the 'look at what they do, not what they say' philosophy that is advocated elsewhere on the forum, a useful principle here perhaps too.

Finally, much of what you offer is precisely what you criticise so vehemently in the Left elsewhere on the forum. You purport to hold metaphysical truth at the crux of an ideology that does not appear to have moved far beyond the back of the e-envelope. You seek to force your ideology down the throats of all those who think differently, and resort to childish mockery and foot-stamping to try to shame such people into submission. Indeed it seems clear, ironically, that you offer nothing different, and are indeed the same, as all those who you so noisily detract in other parts of this site. The colours may be different, but the picture you paint is the same. Consequently, you offer nothing new, merely a poorly rehashed version of an outdated model.

You are in short, it appears to me, part of the problem, not part of the solution.

Post: #139

(12-19-2015 12:02 PM)doc holliday Wrote:  I do think that the one problem I see here is the over emphasis on female companionship and wooing and seducing women as a means of obtaining self-validation. For young guys who have their testosterone raging, yes getting as good as you can at meeting and having sex with women is important so that you get your biological urges taken care and so that you maintain your sanity. You don't want to end up going mad and shooting a bunch of people because you can't get laid.

Ultimately, though, through "self-actualization", spirituality, enlightenment, stoicism, eastern philosophy, mindfulness (the ability to observe your own thoughts and emotions without judgment), or whatever you want to call it, you have to come to the realization of the truth that seeking psychological self-validation through female companionship is a form of self-deception. It is important to separate the physical need/urge of blasting inside a vagina from the psychological desire for a more complete sense of (false) self through validation via the attention of women. The first part is just a bodily function which can be dealt with. It's the second part, which is based on a lie, which will eat away at a man's mind and is part of what creates the Elliot Rodgers of the world.

Post: #140

(12-19-2015 08:49 AM)RexImperator Wrote:  That does sound like buying into the feminine frame of how to value yourself, though.

Value exchanges are almost always a compromise frame.

Let's apply your mindset elsewhere.

Want to buy food at the grocery store? By your logic, you're falling into the grocery store's frame.

But what's actually happening is a compromise frame. You do have some choice in grocery stores, and the grocery stores have some choice on how they want to serve.

I'm sure you'd love to get your groceries for free, and I'm sure the grocery store would love for you to give them money for nothing, but neither will obviously happen.

What's taught here is how to increase your value - and, more importantly - how to get the best exchange for that. It's certainly not easy, but that's always been the purpose of men.

Edit: Also note that these MGTOW guys continue to post here - despite having outlets outside this forum - and will continue to do so, unless banned. Applying economics, we can see why: MGTOW, like feminism, is a trade union. If men and women cross the picket lines, that lowers the bargaining power of these unions.

Post: #141

I was using the term "value" regarding self-worth as a human being, not in terms of sexual marketplace value.

Post: #142

The two are connected, unless you want to set your own standards. But that's like saying I should get my groceries for free because that's my standard.

Post: #143

We'll have to agree to disagree.

I don't know what to say other than thats a very alien way of viewing people, to me anyway. I don't think you would have to extrapolate that line of thinking very far to get to a very dark place lacking in human compassion.

Post: #144

(12-19-2015 12:21 PM)RexImperator Wrote:  

(12-19-2015 12:02 PM)doc holliday Wrote:  I do think that the one problem I see here is the over emphasis on female companionship and wooing and seducing women as a means of obtaining self-validation. For young guys who have their testosterone raging, yes getting as good as you can at meeting and having sex with women is important so that you get your biological urges taken care and so that you maintain your sanity. You don't want to end up going mad and shooting a bunch of people because you can't get laid.

Ultimately, though, through "self-actualization", spirituality, enlightenment, stoicism, eastern philosophy, mindfulness (the ability to observe your own thoughts and emotions without judgment), or whatever you want to call it, you have to come to the realization of the truth that seeking psychological self-validation through female companionship is a form of self-deception. It is important to separate the physical need/urge of blasting inside a vagina from the psychological desire for a more complete sense of (false) self through validation via the attention of women. The first part is just a bodily function which can be dealt with. It's the second part, which is based on a lie, which will eat away at a man's mind and is part of what creates the Elliot Rodgers of the world.

I hear what you're saying. It's a hard thing to explain and you did a good job of it. If I were to do the same using how I see things I would say sex is a taste of the infinite. Just a small, fleeting taste and it probably has to be that way to get us to reproduce.

Other words for it would be the "absolute", the "eternal", the "all", the "everything". How many times do we hear it said in song, "You are my everything".

The question then is "What is the infinite?"

I think it's the resolution of the masculine and feminine. They both stand for very different visions of what the real is. Since the beginning, each gender is trying to get the other to subscribe to their view of reality. Their view of how the world is and should be. This tension is part of the glue of sexual attraction. Time and time again I've seen myself attracted to women who are very opposite to what I stand for. It's why when you are having a friendly argument with a girl you get the desire to fuck her. As they say, opposites attract. It's why the "Neg" works so well. The other part of the glue is the Feminine principle is what we lack in ourselves and we need both to feel whole, to have being.

"Having" a woman is our way of having the feminine, but our other hand has an agenda of wanting to make her subscribe to the masculine view.

In sex it seems to be a unification of it, but is that what's really going on?

I think if each gender knew what the other was really thinking when it came to sex they would be horrified. Women aren't aware we see it as making them, possessing them, owning them, staking our claim. Like they are a glob of clay with no form and we make them into something. Giving them identity (the masculine) through our sperm, our child, our last name, and our ideals.

Women don't really know all that, they are too busy concentrating on what they think is happening which is breaking a man down through her sexuality, making him forget about his duties, his plans, his goals, his thoughts, his thinking. She is breaking down his stoic transcendence and servitude to the other-worldly in favor of imminence and earthly pleasure. He will not serve God, not engage in the big questions of existence and meaning. He will serve her.

When she's on her knees sucking our cock. We see her as submitting, but she sees it as breaking us down, having us submitting to feeling, to the feminine, engulfing the masculine completely like a "Venus" fly-trap

So who's right? Haha.

Now I'm not saying don't have sex, in fact I plan on going abroad again next year to have lots of it. I'm still a man, I have needs, and I enjoy women. Just because you know the folly of something it doesn't mean you shouldn't do it. There's a concept Carlos Castaneda referred to as "Controlled Folly". In essence, you still live a life as you normally would before knowing, but knowledge changes your relation to it, along with your experience of it.

Now I wouldn't expect men in their teens, 20's or early 30's to be concerned with these types of questions or even interested. I certainly wasn't.

So listen up all you youngsters out there, go back to the Game and Travel sections and stay out of here. It's for your own good.

Post: #145

(12-18-2015 06:17 PM)H1N1 Wrote:  I think it is a shame, Quintus, to see a respected member of the forum being so smug and condescending to another respected member simply because you do not personally find value in his world view, and I would like to challenge you on a number of your points.

Post: #146

^^

On an unrelated note, to any of the Brazil guys. I'll be in Rio over Xmas to visit the GF, so if any of you guys want to stoop into the gutter and meet up for a chopp cerveja with a complete "failure at life" like me whose "ego prevented him from reproducing," let me know.

Post: #147

(12-19-2015 05:42 PM)Quintus Curtius Wrote:  ^^

On an unrelated note, to any of the Brazil guys. I'll be in Rio over Xmas to visit the GF, so if any of you guys want to stoop into the gutter and meet up for a chopp cerveja with a complete "failure at life" like me whose "ego prevented him from reproducing," let me know.

I've searched my post for the quotes you provide, but have been unable to find them. If I've been sufficiently unclear that you have been able to interpret what I've written that way, then I apologise. Since it is too late to edit my post, and I don't wish to add any further to the unpleasantness, I can only appeal to the fair-mindedness of the audience.

I hope that despite our disagreement here, you will accept the hand of friendship, and that we can continue to offer robust points of view for the contemplation of our friends here at RVF.

Post: #148

^^^

No worries, man. It's all part of life in the arena...

Post: #149

(12-19-2015 04:56 PM)getdownonit Wrote:  

(12-18-2015 06:17 PM)H1N1 Wrote:  I think it is a shame, Quintus, to see a respected member of the forum being so smug and condescending to another respected member simply because you do not personally find value in his world view, and I would like to challenge you on a number of your points.

NM

Post: #150

(12-19-2015 12:12 AM)Dirty Professor Wrote:  The easiest way to realize that MGTOW are losers is to just look at the guys who actually practice it. Watch some of them talk on YouTube and it should open your eyes. It's a bizarre collection of gamma and omega males and I don't think it's any coincidence these guys are never really studly or charismatic guys. As long as you aren't totally inept socially you'll see how creepy these guys vibes are.

Going to have to agree. Never seen a MGTOW guy online that doesn't seem to have other serious mental and personal issues to begin with. MGTOW seems to serve more as a cover for extreme introversion or social avoidance for most of these guys.

It's the older male version of the millenial teen who can't look people in the eyes or carry on a conversation that isn't strange and awkward.

To people who say this fatalistic worldview isn't harmful you just need to look at places where this worldview has become rooted. I never read their forum but I know the "PUAhate" site was full of guys who thought like this...and guess what that spawned?

MGTOW is inherently a negative mindset. It does not celebrate life or living and I think Q.C. has a good point about this.