Post: #251

(05-10-2016 05:18 PM)debeguiled Wrote:  There is an announcement in the student newspaper about Milo's talk. For the sake of fair play, I left a comment there:

Quote:Milo is intelligent, humorous, a good debater, thinker, and public speaker. If you are a social justice warrior or a slacktivist, you had better be one hundred percent on your game, or he will shred you to intellectual pieces if you try to oppose him or question him.

Your only chance at stopping him is to throw all the rights that you claim for yourself away and deny these same rights to Milo, and shut him down. That is your only hope.

You can only beat him by cheating and not allowing him to talk. I am telling you. He is your better. He will expose the fact that you are just repeating the things that you have heard in gender studies classes and cannot back up anything you say with arguments or facts.

You feel very confident now because everyone agrees with you, but you have never been tested. Your egos are at an all time high with nothing to back them up. Debating Milo will expose you and make you lose your mind.

Just don't do it.

Convince yourself you have better things to do. Smoke some hookah. You don't need this level of humiliation.

Tell yourself you will not dignify his hate with a response. Go do something else. This is for the protection of your own paper thin egos. Seriously. Protect yourselves. Leave him alone.

In the time it has taken me to post this, the comment has probably already been deleted.

Get thee to a safe space! Forthwith!

Post: #252

Ok, so I went to Milo's talk at the University of Oregon on Tuesday. I am thinking of doing a longer report if people are interested, and until then, here is the short version:

My main concern about Milo, as has been discussed earlier in this thread, is that he will get some attention, let it go to his head, and forget all about the issues, transitioning into being too much Milo too much of the time, and ending up like Sting, Bono, Sean Penn, Russell Brand, and whoever else started out strong, became full of himself, and descended into monomania.

After having attended the live event, I have come to the conclusion that my question is pretty much irrelevant. There are a lot of college kids out there, sitting in class, censoring themselves in speech and writing because they know that the tide of opinion on campus is pretty hostile to any common sense observations they might make.

Milo hits all the pro-male, pro-freedom, anti-SJW, anti-feminist, points in his talks a person could want, and he does it in a forceful, funny, and sometimes shocking way.

If any kid is sitting there thinking he is the only one having these thoughts, and becoming timid because of it, Milo is a kind of catalyst, saying not only similar things to what young men are thinking, but also going way beyond them.

There is something nonthreatening about him, and it is not just his gayness, he is disarming, which allows him to say these things and get away with it in a way that a scolding MRA like Paul Elam, or even a more direct, masculine speaker like Roosh probably couldn't.

On this level alone, he is acting as a positive social force, and his popular Youtube videos, from what I could tell, were the main reason people came out to see him. In line I didn't hear anyone talking about him who could articulate his politics or even his job. He was a famous guy on Youtube they were coming to check out.

I don't think it really matters if later he chucks it all to be a mainstream pundit or reality show star. What matters is that he drew almost 400 young people on a weeknight, sharing a message that most of us in this forum could mostly approve of, and his audience was responsive to him. Not many could have done that.

He is lighting a fire under the long suppressed frustration of everyday men who just want to speak honestly about their thoughts and feelings, and this is enough. I don't really care if he ends up selling Milo branded sunglasses on the shopping network down the road.

Post: #253

(05-14-2016 05:26 PM)debeguiled Wrote:  Ok, so I went to Milo's talk at the University of Oregon on Tuesday. I am thinking of doing a longer report if people are interested, and until then, here is the short version:

My main concern about Milo, as has been discussed earlier in this thread, is that he will get some attention, let it go to his head, and forget all about the issues, transitioning into being too much Milo too much of the time, and ending up like Sting, Bono, Sean Penn, Russell Brand, and whoever else started out strong, became full of himself, and descended into monomania.

After having attended the live event, I have come to the conclusion that my question is pretty much irrelevant. There are a lot of college kids out there, sitting in class, censoring themselves in speech and writing because they know that the tide of opinion on campus is pretty hostile to any common sense observations they might make.

Milo hits all the pro-male, pro-freedom, anti-SJW, anti-feminist, points in his talks a person could want, and he does it in a forceful, funny, and sometimes shocking way.

If any kid is sitting there thinking he is the only one having these thoughts, and becoming timid because of it, Milo is a kind of catalyst, saying not only similar things to what young men are thinking, but also going way beyond them.

There is something nonthreatening about him, and it is not just his gayness, he is disarming, which allows him to say these things and get away with it in a way that a scolding MRA like Paul Elam, or even a more direct, masculine speaker like Roosh probably couldn't.

On this level alone, he is acting as a positive social force, and his popular Youtube videos, from what I could tell, were the main reason people came out to see him. In line I didn't hear anyone talking about him who could articulate his politics or even his job. He was a famous guy on Youtube they were coming to check out.

I don't think it really matters if later he chucks it all to be a mainstream pundit or reality show star. What matters is that he drew almost 400 young people on a weeknight, sharing a message that most of us in this forum could mostly approve of, and his audience was responsive to him. Not many could have done that.

He is lighting a fire under the long suppressed frustration of everyday men who just want to speak honestly about their thoughts and feelings, and this is enough. I don't really care if he ends up selling Milo branded sunglasses on the shopping network down the road.

Definitely interested in a longer report. Well done!

Post: #254

His interview this week with McAfee was pretty great.
Check it out on iTunes.

Post: #255

That nigga bailed on his Houston stop and left us hanging, so I can't say much or something high of him.

And he never addressed what happened or if he will make up for it later on.

Post: #256

(05-14-2016 05:26 PM)debeguiled Wrote:  He is lighting a fire under the long suppressed frustration of everyday men who just want to speak honestly about their thoughts and feelings, and this is enough.

He is what he is. I'd consider those attending a University as being a Privileged Caste - in the traditional sense of the word - rather than 'Everyday Men', and the audiences he plays to, on say, Kotaku In Action, (White) Twitter and /pol/ - also seem very Privileged, based upon the level of discourse.

He'd probably be bright and shiny enough to play well enough with working class women as a distraction, (but they're not interested in what they'd see as upper class snobs arguing over how hard they have it with each other)*, and both the perceived intelligence and homosexuality would alienate working class males in my country.

The fire I've been seeing being lit under everyday men back in my country will burn far brighter than some 'charming' jokes about feminists.

Post: #257

(05-14-2016 08:50 PM)Cattle Rustler Wrote:  That nigga bailed on his Houston stop and left us hanging, so I can't say much or something high of him.

And he never addressed what happened or if he will make up for it later on.

From my sources he's apparently coming back with Gavin McInnes which I'm looking forward too. Apparently he was really sick in bed the day of. I'll probably post here about the lecture after and shoot you a message when its happening.

Post: #258

^ Thinking further on that, the Privileged Right and the Working Class Right need to get on each other's radar more. I'm not sure how to link the groups up.

Post: #259

(05-14-2016 09:24 PM)AnonymousBosch Wrote:  ^ Thinking further on that, the Privileged Right and the Working Class Right need to get on each other's radar more. I'm not sure how to link the groups up.

I'd hate to use a leftist tactic, but the Marxist-Leninist approach might be the best bet. Lots of upper class people with great speaking skills coming in to really people up and get them out there/moving. A vanguard from the privileged classes leading from the front and organizing effectively.

Something akin to Robert Kennedy after the MLK assasination

Post: #260

(05-14-2016 09:29 PM)Comte De St. Germain Wrote:  I'd hate to use a leftist tactic, but the Marxist-Leninist approach might be the best bet. Lots of upper class people with great speaking skills coming in to really people up and get them out there/moving. A vanguard from the privileged classes leading from the front and organizing effectively.

It'd be vitally important in Australia to not read like a 'snob'. A mediator would be better. Someone the working class would respect even if they moved in snobby circles. Maybe a celebrity? I think Trump is bridging the gap in America.

The Working Class is organised, but without larger targets. It's more about Tribal Survival at the moment.

Being somewhat vague here:

I've mentioned previously about how the social structures in my home town were breaking down due to resource scarcity, progressive policies and globalisation. The police power there has become very weakened due to progressive hiring policies and crime has skyrocketed to the degree that the police were starting 'blaming the victim' rhetoric rather than reassurance.

I'd been over in Germany for five months, so I was shocked at how quickly the erosion of normalcy happened - I expect the Health System to crash first - so was initially-confused at how everyone was talking about the spate of robberies, break-ins and vandalisation with this hippie air: "Karma will get 'em".

After about a week, I learnt what people meant by 'Karma', and, fuck me, I wouldn't want to get on the wrong side of it either.

So, whilst Feminists are busy bragging about their Herpes and Abortions on Twitter, thinking they're changing the world, Karma is using technology to, say, have someone's stolen trailer back in its garage within 20 minutes without ever involving the police, thereby changing the community.

The Police say 'if we find the culprits', Karma says 'when'.

This is the kind of efficiency you get from traditionally-minded people assigning the hard work to the most effective men for the job.

This wasn't unique to my hometown either. People are organising the same way in Europe. Everyone is becoming aware that their governments not only can't protect them, but don't care to.

Post: #261

^Among the more conservative minded young men that are in my circle it is much of a similar attitude. For Christmas presents we were passing around knives and ammo clips. There's big pushes on campuses here in the States to allow Concealed carry licenses and especially here in the state of Texas.

There's a vocal minority opposed to this(when is there never a vocal liberal minority), but the vast majority of students behind closed doors are in favor of it. Even among the commies and other leftists that I know through some of my circles there's a huge movement to arm themselves here.

Only the petty uber hipsters who look like skinny shits say guns are bad anymore. That or women. Fairly happy about this.


And to bridge the gap it has to be a Ron Paulesque figure with a Trump kind of vocabulary. Polite and always calm but at the same time able to explain things in simple terms while appealing to emotion. That's why Bernie got such a huge following in the first place. He's a leftie representative of that kind of attitude.

Post: #262

(05-14-2016 09:18 PM)AnonymousBosch Wrote:  

(05-14-2016 05:26 PM)debeguiled Wrote:  He is lighting a fire under the long suppressed frustration of everyday men who just want to speak honestly about their thoughts and feelings, and this is enough.

He is what he is. I'd consider those attending a University as being a Privileged Caste - in the traditional sense of the word - rather than 'Everyday Men', and the audiences he plays to, on say, Kotaku In Action, (White) Twitter and /pol/ - also seem very Privileged, based upon the level of discourse.

I take your point, and agree the big light will probably come from the lower working class who finally have had enough, and in that eventuality, light is too mild a word, more like conflagration.

In the case of the main universities in this state though, any student in Oregon who has a B- average in high school gets a place at university, and there are loans and grants available that make the schools more accessible than you might imagine.

Post: #263

Milo is without question a powerfully intelligent speaker, and has the ability to use spoken, nonverbal and cultural signals with some very real expertise.

I watch his growth with great interest. So far, very good.

Regards,

Ivan

Post: #264

Read through the 11 pages of thread and coincidentally had watched several Roosh, Gavin, and Milo videos last night when I couldn't sleep. Lots of guys bring up lots of good points. I especially appreciated Debeguiled's ability to consider points and then over time review and accept other points, especially as he attended a Milo lecture. Shows him a thoughtful and humble guy.

Here's my thinking on the subject and one that someone else brought up on Milo: Ally but not necessarily friend, at least not at this point (kinda like when the disciples/apostles got upset because folks not actually following Jesus were casting out demons; or when Paul says it's okay even when people preach the gospel out of ambition, as long as it's getting preached). Milo is wicked witty and has likely got an impressive IQ. And that's likely true of several alt right guys. They are advancing a common agenda and I applaud that but I'm not necessarily going to invite them over to hang, especially not with fam, who are more vulnerable and impressionable and needing some building up and not just witty criticism.

Interestingly, I don't know Roosh personally but he is more the type of person that I would actually invite over to hang with fam, forgive the presumption here, because his sincerity when he speaks shows a kindness and care for other guys and even for women that I don't necessarily see in other thought leaders in this area. Same with folks like Mark Steyn or Ann Coulter. I think they can zing with the best and are good fighters but can also come along and help grow a community.

One thing that will be interesting as we all grow older will be a question of who do we connect with in the RVF and similar communities now and long term. Will that change as most of us (statistically speaking) will end up wifeing up and having kids? Will the same guys we played wingman with be the same guys we have Thanksgiving dinner, or insert holiday, and football watching with? Just a question I've thought about a couple times.

Post: #265

Oh, and one quick comment. Agreed at the distasteful comments Milo inserts about gay sex or black cocks. However, I really enjoyed how Gavin dealt with it by just giving it back to him in describing how he would fuck Mariah Carey "in her vagina" and eat out "her vagina," if he could, in the same interview that Milo discussed use of drugs and gay sex. Funny and the best way to deal with it.

Post: #266

Milo's Appearance at the University of Oregon. Tuesday May 10 2015 The Long Version

My biggest takeaway from Milo's talk on Tuesday was was a feeling of oddness, as if I was having an uncanny valley experience, only with people and not robots, and that is the reason for the semi-tardiness of this report. It just took some time to think it out.

I am not going to rehash in detail all of his talking points as that seems pretty redundant at this point, nor am I going to go back and rewatch the talk on YouTube to make sure every quote or impression is letter perfect, although for the sake of completeness, the whole talk is here:





Before I write about the things that seemed off about the whole experience, which might come off as overly negative, let's preface everything by saying that Milo obviously has everything it takes to be a big star. Already a frequent television guest and writer in the UK, and popular as a journalist and Youtube personality, he is making a pretty big sensation wherever he goes in the U.S. on his college tour.

He is good looking, stylish, clever, witty, young, and has that sort of preternatural aliveness that most big celebrities have, as if they are feeling and responding to the world more deeply than the rest of us, and when they talk, the tendency is to fall into their frame and just listen.

Unless he flames (heh) out in a dramatic way (Officer, I swear he looked 18), he is going to be really big, and I am glad I got a chance to see him live before he moved on to the big time.

So, the talk.

To set the scene a bit, the University of Oregon is a beautiful campus, with pretty brick buildings tucked in among tall trees, and a mild spring night is the best time of the year to be here. Everything is growing, blooming, and there are tulips popping up everywhere, massive flowering magnolia trees, and hostas growing as big as your mom.



My buddy and I got there an hour early and hung out on a bench at the main entrance to campus to see if there was any SJW activity coming through the main gates. Not so much, just a normal night, though it turned out the flowers weren't the only thing in bloom. We saw tender pale arms and legs of the girls on campus just making their first appearances in spring dresses, and when the evening is warm, people are pretty mellow and innocent walking around, not yet having made the transition to slutty summer.

We got the the talk about twenty minutes early, and there were 100 people there before us, and after we had waited a while, it grew to over three hundred:



We entertained ourselves by playing a game called Spot the Protesters, and you would think it would be dead easy. It wasn't though, as the whole line, made up of mostly young men, wearing the standard college uniform of tee shirts, short hair, shorts, and tennis shoes. All in all, from our spot, we saw almost no one with the sartorial tells of the the SJW bent on some drama.

After about ten minutes, a group of about 10 girls, normal college girls, in matching black shirts with red lettering saying "Consent is Sexy," walked by the line. I didn't see them later at the talk, so unless they just happened to be walking past the line, their protest was an exceedingly subtle one.

It didn't seem to be a heavy partisan crowd in any direction, and although I counted 5 Trump hats, I also saw about the same number of fat chicks.

Stalemate.

Just standing there, taking in the scene, I got my first sense of weirdness about the scene. There was a lot of people in line, and yet there seemed to be no buzz at all. It was like there were no groups, just a large collection of individuals, standing there. To paraphrase James Thurber, next to this crowd, a dead fish is practically beside itself.

In fact, the only people who seemed to be initiating any sort of conversation were the people walking by, asking what the line was for, and again, here was a funny thing. No one had a really good answer for them. People knew they were here to see a guy named Milo, although some of them had trouble with his last name, when they were asked who he was, they didn't really have an answer beyond "He's a guy on the internet."

No one near me in line knew that he was a journalist or a cultural libertarian or a pundit, and they seemed to be a little surprised to be called on to explain it, like, I am just here to see this guy, not take a pop quiz.

A group of sororitrons slinked past, asking what it was all about, and one guy said, "It's the Dangerous Faggot Tour," causing them to wrinkle their noses in unison, and walk suddenly away simultaneously, like a school of fish.

One guy tried bravely to explain Milo to a passerby with questions of his own, "Is he a journalist? I think he is a journalist, anyway, I saw him arguing with feminists online."
As the person who had asked was leaving, the kid sighed and said, pretty much to himself, "yeah, I'm a Reddit guy."

The talk was late getting started, and by the time we all got inside it was about 7:30. The hall had a capacity of 500, and it looked like there were between 350 and 400 people there, small enough for every seat to be able to see Milo's face when he took the stage.

While we were waiting for it to start, I was talking to my friend and he pointed down to the stage and said, there he is. I looked down and it took me a second to identify Milo, as there were a bunch of the students who organized the event, and he was quietly sitting on a chair in the middle of the action.

This was the second oddness. I don't know about you, but the image in my head of Milo is this fellow:



That wasn't who showed up. Instead was the new Milo, this guy:



He had dyed his hair dark again except for the very tips, and was wearing sunglasses, a tee shirt, jeans and sneakers, in other words, he was indistinguishable from the students scurrying around setting things up. Not only that, he hadn't even made an entrance. What self respecting gay man fails to make an entrance?

Anyway, the show started, and he was introduced and for most of the talk he sat there in a chair on wheels, rolling slightly from side to side, his eyes hidden, his legs crossed, and hunched over his microphone like a teen over their smart phone.

Don't get me wrong, he was still Milo, and still connected with the crowd, it was just that he was dressed like a rich kid on Instagram, and his body language was like a teenager who has been dragged somewhere by his parents and is wishing he was somewhere else.

There were a bunch of Milo's projected up on screens, unnecessarily because he wasn't projecting anything with his body anyway, but the actual man was done in a corner kind of hidden away, and it was not the Milo I had expected at all.

Where's Milo:



I guess what you can see what I am getting at about the oddness of the evening. It just had a kind of affectlessness to it. The upside for me was that because he wasn't projecting anything with his body, it made me focus on his voice and realize that the dude has a really good one. It is resonant, authoritative, and has that upper class British accent which makes people in the United States sit up and listen.

It also gave me a chance to really observe the reactions of the crowd because there wasn't anything really distracting me from the stage.

Okay, that is about it for now. I will continue with the meat of the experience tomorrow,focusing less on his specific talking points, since if you are reading this thread, you have heard them a million times by now, and more on the overall experience of seeing Milo live, not on the internet, as well as the vibe of the crowd and how they responded.

Post: #267

Debeguiled,

Good report. I look forward to reading more.

Regards,

Ivan

Post: #268

Insightful report debeguiled. Sounds like maybe Milo is ill. What do you think?

Post: #269

(05-16-2016 10:42 AM)Ghost Tiger Wrote:  Insightful report debeguiled. Sounds like maybe Milo is ill. What do you think?

That is what I kind of thought when I first saw him, that the sunglasses had to do with whatever he was getting up to the night before. Also, the talk started about twenty five minutes late, so I was imagining, verbally, not visually, an incoherent Milo being brought back to life in bathroom down the hall by the gang of twinks and fluffers that travel with him.

Post: #270

(05-16-2016 11:43 AM)debeguiled Wrote:  

(05-16-2016 10:42 AM)Ghost Tiger Wrote:  Insightful report debeguiled. Sounds like maybe Milo is ill. What do you think?

That is what I kind of thought when I first saw him, that the sunglasses had to do with whatever he was getting up to the night before. Also, the talk started about twenty five minutes late, so I was imagining, verbally, not visually, an incoherent Milo being brought back to life in bathroom down the hall by the gang of twinks and fluffers that travel with him.

He's gonna burn out to avoid fading away.

Post: #271

Milo's Appearance at the University of Oregon. Tuesday May 10 2015 The Long Version Part 2: The Talk Itself

As the talk gets under way, I am feeling a bit frustrated at not having seen any blue haired freaks; the only person with dyed hair so far has been a fanboy whose hair looks just like Milo's used to. Bottle blonde.

Pretty good crowd:




25 percent of the crowd is female, I count about 12 Asian guys, and there is one black guy rolling solo, working without a net, though if he is in Oregon, I am sure he is used to being the only member of the darker nation in the room.

The format is an interview and the main talk is to last 25 minutes with the rest set aside for questions. The interviewer asks a couple of things at the beginning, but for most of the talk, he can't get a word in edgewise. Milo is off to the races.

Despite the lack of visuals, Milo is in pretty good form. His message is a combination of three elements:

• Indignation at what our culture has become
• Being funny
• Straight up invective
  

He has a good strategy of giving feminism its due before ripping it a new one, saying that it has been successful and achieved its goals, so now is the time for it celebrate and disband:

Quote:Feminism should rack a few lines, get some hookers.

Rather than doing what it is doing, which is being naturally vindictive and man hating and becoming a

Quote:lesbianic misandric horror show.

He is in favor of the second amendment, even in college, and thinks that it would be nice if we didn't need to protect ourselves, but in the world as it is:

Quote:Every teacher should have a gun in the podium, though the barrel would trigger them

Milo is getting a lot of laughs, some polite laughs, and some momentary confused silences as the audience members try to decide whether or not what he is saying is taking it too far to laugh.

One of the students tweeted a picture with the caption:

Quote:A gallery of the constantly displeased at the @Nero lecture. Haven't seen them crack a smile yet.

This was completely inaccurate. I was watching a lot of the room and it wasn't that people were constantly displeased. If anything, the room was with him, and he got his share of applause and laughs.

What I saw on the faces was uncertainty and some anxiety. What you have to remember is that people in Oregon, on the whole, are nice. They pride themselves on their niceness. This led to some apprehension as to whether Milo was making good points, or just being mean for its own sake, and whether or not it was ok to laugh or applaud.

The unfiltered Milo is a lot different from the reigned in Milo we see on news shows in a suit, with a time constraint, dismantling feminists with facts and studies and chuckling charmingly when they flip out.

There is no two ways about it, he could get harsh, and it sometimes went beyond shitlordery, and into a kind of unrighteous gloating. Example:

Quote:Your professors are punks on the whole.

He moved on to address his privilege grant saying it was remedy to the trend in society that is harsh on poor white males, saying that the current mood is an

Quote:assault on straight white males waged by middle class female cucks.

and that he wants to create a cadre of

Quote:Yiannopoulos scholars triggering their way through life.

One good strategy he used was against the fake rape culture on campus, when he said that if you think a freshman fumbling clumsily with you at a party is actual rape, you are completely unprepared to go out into the real world where there are real dangers. And anyway, what are you supposed to do about consent,

Quote:sign a form between thrusts?

He trashed feminists and SJWs, completely, and then, one of the highlights of the talk was his list of the most annoying people in the world:

1. Atheists. (More thin skinned even than feminists.)
2. Vapers (Lot of these in Eugene, got major laugh)
3. Cyclists (Eugene consists of a lot of cyclists vaping)
4. Lesbians
   

In the first part of this post I mentioned that I felt a kind of oddness about this whole experience. Part of it came from the passivity of the students, and part of it was the semi uncalibrated nature of Milo, he was kind of all over the place at times, which I will get into later.

Thinking about it now though, I think part of the weirdness simply came from the influence that our best friend, the internet, has on us that we don't really notice till moments like this bring it to our attention.

I have seen this phenomenon before, like when I went to see a comedian I had seen a bunch on the internet live. (It was Brian Regan.) I was really close to stage, and could see him very well, and the real Brian Regan just didn't look how the internet had convinced me he should look. It was very disconcerting, like, I like Brian Regan, but who is this guy? He looks like Kevin Bacon.

If I didn't pay close attention, I would feel my eyes drifting away from the guy onstage and towards the screens he was projected on because subconsciously, I felt more comfortable with that guy.

By they way, there is a delusional disorder that has these same symptons called the Capgras delusion:

Quote:The Capgras delusion (or Capgras syndrome) (/kæpˈɡrɑː/, US dict: kăpgrâ′)[1] is a disorder in which a person holds a delusion that a friend, spouse, parent, or other close family member (or pet) has been replaced by an identical-looking impostor.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capgras_delusion

Yeah, the internet, who I thought was my friend, is turning me mental.

I wasn't going Capgras on Milo, he looked like he should, and I didn't believe him to be a nemesis or strange doppelganger, it was just that having seen mostly his greatest hits online, it felt like something that should have been there wasn't, and if you are like me, even though you understand that the internet is messing with our attentions spans and our way of perceiving things, I generally apply this observation to other people, not me, and feel that because I am aware of it, it doesn't affect me as much.

So it is weird to have your own warped perception rubbed right in your nose. I was like a guy who only watched sports highlights, thought he was a fan, and when he got to the game said, this is boring.

Where was the drama? The outbursts? Where was my Fisticufflypuff?

I was bored after about twenty minutes, and actually ended up leaving early, after having listened to the first five or so questions, so after a little more than an hour, and that was definitely part of the oddness.

Anyway, to wrap up this part of the report, Milo was mostly his usual self, although very light on journalist talk or statistics, and heavy on polemic, humor, and insults. It is one thing to see him do this when unsightly SJW monsters are in his face accusing him of nonsense, and quite another when he is talking to a polite and attentive audience. It felt some of the time like overkill.

The audience was very polite and supportive, and in this case as well, maybe there was nothing really odd about it other than I only watch people misbehaving on the internet, so to have an open, polite, attentive audience who didn't interrupt with boos or their opinions, only felt odd, when in reality it was the perfect exemplar of the civilized audience. I only saw a few walkouts and honestly you couldn't tell whether or not they were in a huff or just going to the toilet. Looking back on it now, I am kind of proud of these kids for being so mature. And most of them certainly had a longer attention span than I ended up having.

I did have a few takeaways from the whole experience, but I will save them for the next and final part of this report.

Post: #272

Excellent reports debeguiled. You are a gifted writer!

I especially liked this part:

(05-16-2016 04:00 PM)debeguiled Wrote:  He has a good strategy of giving feminism its due before ripping it a new one, saying that it has been successful and achieved its goals, so now is the time for it celebrate and disband:

Quote:Feminism should rack a few lines, get some hookers.

Rather than doing what it is doing, which is being naturally vindictive and man hating and becoming a

Quote:lesbianic misandric horror show.

As I read that, I thought to myself that the same analysis can be made of the union movement, which has "achieved its goals, so now is the time for it celebrate and disband". Right-to-work legislation would fix this problem. I'm wondering if, when he's done with feminism, Milo might turn his dark gaze on the union movement. It will take a celebrity with Milo's invincibility. Attacking unions almost finished off both Scott Walker and Steven Crowder. Hopefully if Milo reads this, he'll take the hint and accept the challenge.

Great reports debeguiled. Muchisimas gracias.

Post: #273

Milo's Appearance at the University of Oregon. Tuesday May 10 2015 The Long Version Part 3: Takeaways From A One Sided Flyting of Dysphemism



TL;DR My main takeaway from this talk was that it was a success overall, and that the only thing that detracted from it was when Milo seemed to be reaching: reaching for indignation, reaching for controversy, and reaching for laughs most of all.

He hit his targets 70% of the time and was kind of reaching the rest. Reaching isn't just ineffective when you are reaching, it also makes the times you are effective less so because there is an underlying sense of unease or uncertainty for an audience throughout the event that makes it harder for them to respond spontaneously.

Personal takeaway. Don't reach. If you have something to say that feels right, say it, but don't strain for effect.






In the earlier posts I mentioned a sense of unease or oddness for me at this event that I sensed in the rest of the crowd sometimes too. Some of it was the internet effect that makes someone you have seen online seem sort of unreal in life.

I would put down most of it to the fact that at times Milo was reaching for effect. I am using this term rather than the term "try hard" because "try hard" has a whiff of the loser about it and Milo is obviously no loser. We all push it sometimes, and I don't need to watch Milo to look for examples. I could just as easily take a stroll through my own posting history to see where sometimes I hit things on the head, and others I am only hoping to.

Being onstage in front of a group of people leads to a decided change of consciousness for the person onstage as well as the audience. If you are at a party, and maybe have a squeaky voice, or hunched shoulders, there is so much sensory input all around that it can easily go unnoticed.

The minute you get onstage, every little detail about you is completely magnified, and at the same time, because their attention is all focused on you, the audience stops being a collection of individuals, and operates like one large all seeing organism.

Any little flaws or inconsistencies you may have register either consciously or unconsciously for the crowd, and they respond to it with a greater intensity than they would otherwise. I am sure there are many members on the forum who have experienced this directly either on a stage or as athletes.

I am pretty much a geek about anything related to showmanship or stagecraft, and have some experience speaking or performing before a large group of people, so if you aren't into that stuff, this might just seem like a bunch of over-analyzing. To reiterate what I've said before, Milo is great, he's going to be a star, and what he does is good for society.

Ok, that said, when I first really started to be impressed with Milo, it was when he was standing up for all the Gamergate dudes in his articles, and he seemed like a kind of cool older guy standing up for younger or weaker guys who didn't have the chance to speak for themselves.

We all remember, when we were first starting out in high school, the cool senior who didn't look down on us. He may have been an athlete, but if he was, he was an intellectual too and spoke up in English class, or maybe he even performed in school shows. He was the kind of guy who would pass you the basketball in P.E. instead of ignoring you like all the other seniors. "Posting up, eh? Let's see what you can do."

In my mind Milo functioned kind of like that, like someone who was more established and more visible, successful, who still cared about people who didn't have his level of success. And this would extend to anti-feminist views as well. As he always said, because he was gay, he had the kind of immunity that straight men could only dream of.

One of my favorite Milo videos is this one where he debates a fat feminist who got a MBE, Member of the Most Excellent Order of the British Empire(indignation exclamation point) for teaching women it is okay to be slovenly.



He is in a suit, and sticks to science, and his shitlordery reveals itself only through insinuation and bitchy expressions, along with judicious use of words like "blobby." He is sharp, witty, cutting, and so on top of it, that at one point I thought to myself, oh, Milo, you missed the part where she admitted that she was really against capitalism, not just thin models, only to have him save that fact to use against her later in the argument.

He kept his cool, chuckled at her inane arguments, and effortlessly had her giving ground more and more with each exchange until all she could say was that he must be wrong about ugly fat older feminists being envious of thin young girls because she is in a happy relationship.

It was perfect.

So his live event contrasted with this sort of appearance greatly. First of all, because the audience was polite, he seemed a little at a loss, not having an enemy in the room to joust with. This is not only my observation. At one moment in the talk he actually said to the crowd:

Quote:You've been a depressingly well behaved audience.

Secondly, dressing down like he did took away some of the authority he would have had with this younger crowd. He is 32 years old, sophisticated and successful, and dressing like this,



instead of like this,



robbed him of some of his authority. In the first picture, the student interviewing him looks older than he does. I am well aware that I am not the demographic he is appealing to, and maybe dressing much younger is a calculated move designed to make him more relatable to college students. Can't know for sure, this is all speculation.

Still, it seems to me that it would odd and a bit of a reach to me if I were a student and some older guy was trying to dress like me. When I was Milo's age, I had a girlfriend who was a freshman in college, and from time to time I hung out with her and her friends. It was no issue. If she was happy with me, they were, and I never would have thought of slapping on a ball cap and pair of cutoffs to fit in better. Everyone would have thought it was weird.

So, I don't think the new Milo is a good direction for him, although I am also aware that he has only recently become a media figure, and the level of attention he is getting is intense, so it is not unexpected for him to be playing around with his image and trying different things.

Also, it wasn't Milo's fault that no enemies showed up for him to banter and trade insults with. He is a good adlibber, and might be at his best facing off with some fatty full of rage.

The problem for him with having no enemies in the room was that it made him come off a lot harsher than was necessary. When I was in high school I had a great teacher who used the term, a Flyting of Dysphemism.

Flyting

Dysphemism

A flyting being a ritual exchange of insults that goes back to the 5th century, and a dysphemism being exactly what you would expect, the opposite of euphemism.

In this talk, Milo found himself in a one sided flyting of dysphemism, and as such, it led at times, even if on the unconscious level for most people, to moments of anxiety and tension which are distinct from having their ideas provoked.

It is kind of like when you are having a good conversation with someone in a bar, and he starts veering towards making racist comments. Suddenly you are on your guard, thinking, well, I don't want to be talking to some old racist kook who thinks I agree with him. He is not challenging your views in any meaningful way, he is only making you guarded and uncomfortable.

I'm not saying Milo is racist, or being offensive like that, only that he was moving into that territory speaking so forcefully with no enemies in the room to fight.

People were unsure sometimes whether it was ok to laugh or applaud or not. This is why I disagreed in the earlier post with the student who posted a photo saying there was a whole section of permanently displeased people. No. They were stressed.


He asked us if we knew who Trigglypuff was and then trashed her a while and said, "Fuck Trigglypuff."

He talked about people who are fat and pretending they are healthy and daring you to call them fat. His response: "Fuck those guys."

The first and only hiss I heard came 45 minutes in when he was saying that cutting off a dick is not the same thing as being a woman. After the hiss he said, "Fuck those guys, it's funny."

Seeing the pattern here? Our old friend, the witty and urbane Milo's catch phrase for the night was FUCK.

When someone asked if he believed in using violence against SJWs, he said, no, unless they were really fat. Then he said, "kidding, kidding, I wouldn't want to touch it."

He said, with no background or explanation that Black Lives Matter doesn't help black people. Now, for most of the people in the room, all they know is that they were hearing about black people being killed by police, and then this group called "Black Lives Matter" started speaking out against it.

Milo didn't have his journalist hat on. He had his supervillain of the internet hat on, and as a result, he provided no context or background for his comment, he just trashed something that most people vaguely believed to be positive. It made people uncomfortable.

I love the provocative trash talker plenty. It has been around forever. Even someone considered stodgy today like Noam Chomsky has used the strategy to good effect.

It goes like this: There is the common wisdom. Everyone believes it. It is an article of faith. You could start making arguments against it and chip away at it little by little. Or you could make a bold brash statement that wakes people up, offends them, and most of all gets their attention. The catch is, you have to back it up now with facts and arguments.

In the nineties, Chomsky would say things like,

Quote:If the Nuremberg laws were applied, then every post-war American president would have been hanged.

And then he would back it up, exhaustively, with more facts than you wanted to know. The provocation was a tool to get other people to listen to something heartfelt:

https://chomsky.info/1990____-2/

Milo was really pouring on the provocative statements, as well as the jokes, and the bits of indignation at society. He just wasn't taking much of any time to back it up.

There was a particularly uncomfortable moment with the first questioner that made me wince.


The questioner said that he knew Milo was joking about feminism being cancer, and Milo said no, it wasn't a joke, and then he did another call back to someone from another talk who had challenged him. He told about a girl who came up to the mike and said that she was a cancer survivor and also a feminist. Milo's response was something along the lines of, My God, you've weaponized your own illness.

This made people uncomfortable. Even if he is right, there is something a bit cold about saying something like this right in the face of someone who has actually had cancer.

Funny thing, that moment was saved by the questioner, who, in the pained silence, said that he had had two friends die of cancer, but luckily, neither of them were suffering from feminism at the time.

If you combine all of these elements, his new aloof cool guy style, his lack of enemies, his appeal to shock and use of invective, and his abandonment of the language of journalism, well, there were times, near the end, where he reminded me of a rebellious teenager dragged along to some event by his parents, sitting in the corner mumbling to himself that everything was shit.

He has all the elements of being an amazing public speaker and larger than life personality, and part of me thinks that it would be great if a good theatrical director got a hold of him and gave him some very basic blocking and stagecraft tips. I have had the experience of someone who knows more about the stage tell me things that I didn't even know I was doing that were distracting the audience (Did you know you smack your lips sometimes close to the mike?), and some constructive feedback from an experienced director would make his talks much more effective.

When he was loose and saying things off the cuff he was great. Like one time one of the questioners said something about Milo flying in on a plane, and without missing a beat Milo said,

Quote:Debonair-force One.

And he had lines like,

Quote:Russia annexes Crimea, United States argues over pronouns.

The guy has got the goods, he has just got to stop reaching. Stop reaching with the self consciously youthful edgy wardrobe, spend a little more time in analysis, and a little less with invective, and especially cut the jokes by thirty percent at least. His good one liners were as good as anyones, and the bad ones dulled the effectiveness of the good ones by putting the audience on edge, rather than in anticipation.

One cringe moment was when he paused for a moment, looked up at the giant version of himself on the screen, and said,

Quote:Hot.

Ugh.

So, I am going to wrap up again by saying that these observations are here for any value the forum may find from them and because I like talking about this stuff. They are fine tuning, and Milo is obviously doing very very okay for himself, so they are not a condemnation.

One of the things he mentioned was when one of the questioners told him that he was his favorite comedian. Milo said, look, I know you are complimenting me, but I hate stuff like this because it is what the SJWs do, they redefine you to marginalize you.

He went on to say that when he was interviewed for the New York Times, he got mad at the interviewer because she tried to say that he was a "performance artist," and he didn't like it.

Someone asked him then what he was, and he said,

Quote:I'm a shitlord that shows up at colleges.

Not a journalist. Not a pundit.

A shitlord.

A personality.

In a way, he was ducking the issue of defining himself. He has only recently been getting all sorts of attention, and even though he plays it off like it is all cool, there must be a lot of pressure on him right now, and you can't blame the man for trying out different looks, different stances, and flailing around a bit. I think he will figure it out fine.

I just wish he would trust himself enough not to have to dress younger than he is, and not to have to reach for shock, and for sure, cut a third of those jokes.

Grumpy Cat is an internet personality. Laci Green.

Milo under it all is a serious person, has a lot to offer, and shouldn't hide his sophistication to appeal to the casual browsers.

Post: #274

I think he's dressing younger because he doesn't have a security detail and has to walk around and not be noticed by SJWs. Also if there was a high chance of me having paint thrown on me(or SJW piss like Lauren Southern) or any other kind of bodily harm I sure as hell am not wearing my nice suit.

Post: #275

I have noticed that Milo when he appears on the TV to talk politics takes on the Trump hairstyle, as he is a big Trump supporter.



But in more informal settings such as at a university lecture takes on what looks more like a George Michael pop star look:-



He is like a chameleon, changing his image to suit the venue and setting.
Going from Gay Trump supporter to George Michael lookalike. It's all very intentional on a subconscious level. He deliberately uses his homosexual status as a tool to disarm his opponents when putting across his right wing (right as in right versus wrong) views. A very clever strategy.