Post: #26

(09-27-2015 05:01 PM)The Lizard of Oz Wrote:  Jeez, you guys are awfully quick to advise "cutting someone out of your life" for what seems like a pretty minor transgression, LOL.

Whatever happened to the normal rough-and-tumble between guys? Sometimes men that are good friends will try to fuck with each other a little. If the guy fucks with you by trying to game some slut you had your eyes on, you can fuck with him some other way, without going overboard. No need to "cut him dead" for something like that.

Obviously I'm not talking about CBW's situation, that's different. But with day to day things, no reason to be so damn sensitive about every little thing or even worry about whether to "forgive" someone as if he tried to steal your grandmother's favorite brooch.

Young dudes these day are way too thin-skinned...

I disagree completely. I read your other comment on the Deep friendships post and interestingly enough it's basically the same reason that I have for disagreeing with you here. It's only a small snippet, but I think it stands with no context needed:

Quote:see if you can make new friendships with like-minded men

This is huge. Like-minded men. The guy in the OP's story may be a guy who has always been there for him, wingmanning like a champ, and also being a guy who has benefitted his life greatly.

However, I think it's likely that it's more of a loose association/light friendship that they have going on and the guy doesn't have a strongly proven track record. Otherwise, I find it strange that the OP wouldn't mention those things.

If this is the case, you should absolutely cut people like this out of your life not because your feelings are hurt (aka thinskinned), but because the wingman has shown his true colors. You can know with reasonable certainty that this is how this guy operates. If he does indeed have a long track record of being like-minded with you, then it would warrant a longer assessment, but if not, move on.

Just like there are plenty of women out there, there are plenty of guys out there for potential friendship. You would be better off gaming by yourself and seeking out other truly like-minded driven guys to surround yourself with as friends and wingmen.

Post: #27

Hey guys,
I need a break from my wingman.

I see my wingman as a wingman while he sees me as one of his best buds. I’ve winged for other guys before and usually we hit the venue, help each other out and then everyone goes their separate ways.

However, my wingman has an agenda, he wants to stay at my place and hang out there. I go to a college near the venues, therefore, he would rather stay at my place than go home. He thinks that eventually he will be able to pick up girls at my college. I have told him that this can’t be the case because I’ve gotten in trouble for trying to do that and the school is keeping tabs on me.

Last time, he got pissed because I didn't let him stay at my place. Later that week he told me his friend was planning on beating me up since I had not let him stay. But he stopped his friend since he’s my wingman.

Even though, I see my wingman as a friend and I know he wants to help me out- the girl told me he spoke well about me. I think he brings too much drama to my life.

Post: #28

(09-28-2015 10:04 PM)Phatom Wrote:  Hey guys,
I need a break from my wingman.

I see my wingman as a wingman while he sees me as one of his best buds. I’ve winged for other guys before and usually we hit the venue, help each other out and then everyone goes their separate ways.

However, my wingman has an agenda, he wants to stay at my place and hang out there. I go to a college near the venues, therefore, he would rather stay at my place than go home. He thinks that eventually he will be able to pick up girls at my college. I have told him that this can’t be the case because I’ve gotten in trouble for trying to do that and the school is keeping tabs on me.

Last time, he got pissed because I didn't let him stay at my place. Later that week he told me his friend was planning on beating me up since I had not let him stay. But he stopped his friend since he’s my wingman.

Even though, I see my wingman as a friend and I know he wants to help me out- the girl told me he spoke well about me. I think he brings too much drama to my life.

Maybe you should sit him down and tell him you want to wing other people.




Be firm but gentle

Post: #29

Update: I blocked my wingman on my phone. He kept calling me. Three days later, I noticed he deleted me from Facebook. He also added my girl to Facebook and is liking her pictures. I was texting with the girl today but she was being flaky, I got fed up and told her to text me when she wants to hangout.

Thank's everyone, you guys were right this guy was more far screwed up that I thought. So I am dropping him and my girl-flaky and average looking who wanted to put me in provider beta territory.

Keep on gaming!

Post: #30

Dude he was just hollering. He got further than you did so no harm no foul. I've had wingmen do worse shit that I forgave.

Post: #31

Lizard,

The feeling's mutual. I enjoy your posts because it doesn't feel like I'm arguing with you as much as engaging in a dialogue.

Now back to the discussion. There's a lot going on in your post, so I'll reply as I go down the line.

I'll agree that 'disloyal' and 'dishonest' are strong words. They're strong because the lead no doubt as to where the person who wields them stands on the issue (or someone). Secondly, I see disloyalty and dishonesty in a similar light to the adjective 'pregnant'. That is, a woman is either pregnant or she isn't. She can't be just a 'little' pregnant. Maybe that way of speaking is provocative - it's meant to be. To borrow the words of a friend:

Quote:This is in order to arrive at resolution with the utmost alacrity – not because I enjoy conflict (I don’t).

So in summary - perhaps the OP's friend is committing small acts of dishonesty and disloyalty because the scope is small. It's still dishonest and or disloyal (unless there's more information that proves otherwise).

That said, I concede your point about lack of social grace. I barely noticed "two set" which reeks of PUA and an overly logical nature (need to categorize everything and develop systems for dealing with it. Wingman and aloof are among the language that everyone uses - so those don't raise any red flags to me. That said - I can see this whole thing arising from lack of social grace on both sides, which goes back to my point and concession about lack of data on my part.

As for the litmus test - from where I stand, you calling it "feminine" as women often test men and friends strikes me as shaming language. That is, reminiscent of the kind women use on men who express opinions or desires that the women disagrees with or dislikes. So right back at you.

Let me clarify my thinking on Litmus test. I don't test my best friend. I trust him without reservation and with my life and he the same for me. He's already proved his worth to me. And from there you might say "Aha! So you [have] test[ed] him!" No. I haven't. Through his actions, I can tell that he has my back through thick and thin. In other words, he's proved (shown) his loyalty to me. It's called cause meet effect. Or deductive reasoning.

To put in practical terms that are relevant to the OP. I'm not telling him to cut the guy out of his life just to see the man's reaction. I'm telling him that if he cuts that guy out of his life for bad character, if it was a mistake to do so (i.e. that wingman actually was of good character), it's likely that the wingman would act a certain way (asking OP what happened), revealing his good character.

In simpler terms - if the wingman's actually a good guy - I believe the OP can deduce that from how he handles it. But I don't think the OP's wingman is a good guy (I think said wingman is disloyal and dishonest) and that's why I advocate the cut.

I realize I may not argue my point clearly as I think I do - let me know if that's the case.

___________________________________________________________

I'm very lucky that I have the parents that I do and a best friend who's as much of a thought criminal as I am. I almost had a girlfriend (adopted girl from Russia) who was a thought criminal too - it didn't last - but that's neither here nor there.

Despite this - I still feel lonely at times. That scares me a little, honestly because though I can't imagine it, I know that guys who don't have one or either of those surely have it worse. So I don't talk about it, generally.

I mostly agree with the part about friendships. The part I disagree with is that all friendships deserve a real effort to grow and cultivate. There is only so much time you've got in this life and you don't get it back. So choose carefully who you invest your time into. Maybe a better way to say that is - prioritize. I don't mean to go from one end of the extreme (cultivate All the friends!) to the other (fuck All the friends!).

I agree that friendships should not be severed over trivial matters or articially tested. Life will test your friendships enough! I am only guilty of advising to be discriminating with regards to what you do with the test results. While I wouldn't go as far as to say one should 'relish' a friend's faults, but I agree with tolerating them so long as their not egregious or incompatible with a good character. A quick example - my best friend's got a different philosophy on monogamy than I. Despite the fact that I haven't been a Saint with all my girlfriends, we're still best friends even if he can't condone some of my actions.

Finally - I agree with you, Lizard, wholeheartedly on your post. I read the entirety of it and the thread it was in. With one caveat - like Aneroid Ocean pointed out.

(09-28-2015 08:03 PM)AneroidOcean Wrote:  

Quote:see if you can make new friendships with like-minded men

This is huge. Like-minded men. The guy in the OP's story may be a guy who has always been there for him, wingmanning like a champ, and also being a guy who has benefitted his life greatly.

However, I think it's likely that it's more of a loose association/light friendship that they have going on and the guy doesn't have a strongly proven track record. Otherwise, I find it strange that the OP wouldn't mention those things.

Finally - to the OP - I do think it's a good idea to forgive your wingman, for he is only human. But do it for you, not him. Holding a grudge is venomous to spirit. I still advocate cutting him from the team, but if you don't - at least keep a close eye on him.

G

Post: #32

Sounds like an asshole to me.
Turf him.
That's not a wingman. That's a broken wingman.

Post: #33

That's not a wingman. That's a Snake. You need to cut the snake out of your life because nothing positive will come from it trust me. I had a roommate in college do some shady shit like that to this girl I was already involved with. It was a surprise to me that he betrayed me like that as he was still in love and having a long distance relationship with his high school sweet heart. I heard her side of the story and also heard his. She told me the truth and he lied about it when I confronted him. So then I confronted him with the evidence she provided me and then he broke down like a little bitch and getting emotional and telling me all these excuses. He didn't man up and tell me the truth from the start and ever since that situation I lost all respect for him. He couldn't even abide by the bros befores hoes rule. I told what happened to my close buddies and they made sure to watch out for his sneaky ways so the same thing doesn't happen to them. There was a lot of tension between us the rest of that semester. After we both moved out I deleted his number and never spoke or saw him again. With these type of people you got to cut them out of your life immediately when they disrespect you in such a manner.

Post: #34

(10-01-2015 12:42 AM)Phatom Wrote:  Update: I blocked my wingman on my phone. He kept calling me. Three days later, I noticed he deleted me from Facebook. He also added my girl to Facebook and is liking her pictures. I was texting with the girl today but she was being flaky, I got fed up and told her to text me when she wants to hangout.

Wait...this is a dude we're talking about?

Send him this

Post: #35

He sounds like he puts himself before everybody else and has a pussy scarcity mentality about him. I don't know if you want that kind of negativity fucking with your vibe.

Post: #36

(09-26-2015 09:04 PM)Rutting Elephant Wrote:  He's clearly got a hoes before bros mentality. I would sever all ties with such a person before they have a chance at a more serious betrayal.

Yep. Sometimes you just gotta cut a man loose.

Post: #37

There are a couple things here.

First, was it cool of him to ask out Girl A?

Depends. If it was obviously clear you really liked her and are dating her then of course it's not cool. But was that the case? You mentioned dropping her and going to another city for two weeks. Did your buddy think you dropped her? Sounds like you never even kissed her and this girl was fair game because she is a random chick. Not some star-crossed lover of yours.

Second, was it cool of him to say, "You tell me what she said. It's none of your business."? Of course not. At that moment you see he's putting some piece of slutty pussy before friendship. I mean if you're asking him about how sex is with his wife then I could understand, but c'mon, this is some random chick!

It sounds like you're both putting pussy before friendship, but is he even a friend? You describe him as a "wingman" and not a friend. What is that anyways? Just a guy you hang out with, not because of who he is, but because you don't want to approach girls alone?

If that's the case, that's your first problem. Hang out with men because you enjoy their company and conversation and put that first. If you do that, I think you'll have less of these wingman-dramas going forward.

There were so many times growing up my friends and I would be vying for the same girl. Once an old friend and I were going after the same chick at a party. He won, he got herpes. So in reality I actually won. It's been said, not getting what you want can be a wonderful stroke of luck.

That same friend, years later at another party at my house, was telling me how he really liked this girl and he was worried because he thought she was into me because her and I were talking alot. I really didn't care about banging her. Looking back, she was hot so I should've, but I graciously stepped aside because I cared more about him than I did about some piece of ass I can get elsewhere. There are so many girls around, why get hung up on some random chick? They are literally a dime a dozen.

Post: #38

My wingman called me today. I told him we wouldn't hang out anymore because he puts "hoes before bros." He justified himself saying that "I don't go to college man, unlike you I have a right to get any girl." Later he admitted to stealing other friends girlfriends. He believes that the strongest man should win.

Post: #39

(10-07-2015 09:01 PM)Phatom Wrote:  My wingman called me today. I told him we wouldn't hang out anymore because he puts "hoes before bros." He justified himself saying that "I don't go to college man, unlike you I have a right to get any girl." Later he admitted to stealing other friends girlfriends. He believes that the strongest man should win.

Such "strong" dudes get sacrificed to the gods in some cultures. But on a serious note, I've known guys who think like this and in almost every instance they pull the morality card when someone tries this on them, even if they don't know the guy. Everyone is for "survival of the fittest" until they are no longer the fittest.

Post: #40

(09-27-2015 04:45 PM)CrashBangWallop Wrote:  

(09-27-2015 04:09 PM)HonantheBarbarian Wrote:  Crashbang, that was really grimy on HER part to text you the pic just to rub it in.

Did you guys go through a particularly nasty breakup? Fuck man, after three years of being with someone you would think they would spare you the visual evidence.

Women are wretched things. .

Yeah, I dumped her for an 18 year old model (who I'm still with today, 10 years later as it happens)

She set the whole thing up and he was/is a thirsty beta chump who fell right for it.

He's now got a frumpy older wife...

Haha, the first time I read this I was in a daze and thought the girl you've been with for the past 10 years is now 18. I was worried there for a sec...

Post: #41

(10-07-2015 09:01 PM)Phatom Wrote:  My wingman called me today. I told him we wouldn't hang out anymore because he puts "hoes before bros." He justified himself saying that "I don't go to college man, unlike you I have a right to get any girl." Later he admitted to stealing other friends girlfriends. He believes that the strongest man should win.

Phatom...can I ask how old you are?

It's just that while the question/topic of ethics between men / friends and their dynamics around girls is a valid one and worth discussion, your whole play by play interaction with your "wingman"...just has come a across as quite juvenile with a dash of gay sprinkled in...just saying

BTW. "Wingman" is a function served by a friend or acquaintance...Ive never heard it used almost as a job title the way it has in this thread...Or am I missing something?

Post: #42

(10-08-2015 04:31 PM)PapayaTapper Wrote:  

(10-07-2015 09:01 PM)Phatom Wrote:  My wingman called me today. I told him we wouldn't hang out anymore because he puts "hoes before bros." He justified himself saying that "I don't go to college man, unlike you I have a right to get any girl." Later he admitted to stealing other friends girlfriends. He believes that the strongest man should win.

Phatom...can I ask how old you are?

It's just that while the question/topic of ethics between men / friends and their dynamics around girls is a valid one and worth discussion, your whole play by play interaction with your "wingman"...just has come a across as quite juvenile with a dash of gay sprinkled in...just saying

BTW. "Wingman" is a function served by a friend or acquaintance...Ive never heard it used almost as a job title the way it has in this thread...Or am I missing something?

Dude I am 22. I didn't know wingman was reserved as a function and you could not call a friend wingman. We are friends but hangout only with the purpose of gaming. I had many friends like that in the past.

I don't know where this juvenile or gay stuff is coming from. He called me since he wanted to go game and I told him 'no'.Since he crossed my boundaries. We settled it as men since we weren't arguing about the chick but rather about principles. Nobody was angry or acting petty.

Post: #43

That's a mature perspective on the whole thing for someone your age (I'm 24). Pretty rare IMO. Then again I am basically the only person I know who thinks about these things the way I do.

Post: #44

(10-08-2015 09:43 PM)Phatom Wrote:  

(10-08-2015 04:31 PM)PapayaTapper Wrote:  

(10-07-2015 09:01 PM)Phatom Wrote:  My wingman called me today. I told him we wouldn't hang out anymore because he puts "hoes before bros." He justified himself saying that "I don't go to college man, unlike you I have a right to get any girl." Later he admitted to stealing other friends girlfriends. He believes that the strongest man should win.

Phatom...can I ask how old you are?

It's just that while the question/topic of ethics between men / friends and their dynamics around girls is a valid one and worth discussion, your whole play by play interaction with your "wingman"...just has come a across as quite juvenile with a dash of gay sprinkled in...just saying

BTW. "Wingman" is a function served by a friend or acquaintance...Ive never heard it used almost as a job title the way it has in this thread...Or am I missing something?

Dude I am 22. I didn't know wingman was reserved as a function and you could not call a friend wingman. We are friends but hangout only with the purpose of gaming. I had many friends like that in the past.

I don't know where this juvenile or gay stuff is coming from. He called me since he wanted to go game and I told him 'no'.Since he crossed my boundaries. We settled it as men since we weren't arguing about the chick but rather about principles. Nobody was angry or acting petty.

Ok fair enough. I believe I get the picture

Post: #45

This is the closest thread I could find relateable to what I needed to ask. So I consider myself a good wingman. I jump on grenades, i entertain the linebackers and when push comes to literal shove. I've always stood in to take a punch for my wingman if necessary. This stems from my military service. If one showed up with a black eye, you better have a good fucking reason why you didn't.

That said. The other night out i was enjoying a beer. Suddenly out of the blue my wingman comes literally running behind me as the biggest dude in the club bounds towards us. I took two shots to the face before it was over. My wingman was untouched, we were chucked out. I didn't ask what happened, that wasn't important. We were safe.

Skip forward to 3 nights later. We open a 2 set, go out on the town with them after. Its 130am and neither girl is actually DTF. But we have future in roads. I'm ready to go home, my buddy wants to sit til the wee AM cuddling and I'm suddenly the asshole cause i want to shit or get off the pot.

Eventually 3am we leave. Ive made it clear to the chick im not down with 5am blue balls and she storms off as her classy friend takes a piss behind the dumpster. She emerges from behind said dumpster to find her friend missing. Then immediately starts in yelling at me on the street for it.

She calls me everything imaginable from jerk to ahole to bad friend and jabbing her pointing fingers into my chest. At this point, I'm ready to go. But where is my fucking wingman? Holding her hand, hiding his head on her shoulder. Looking at me like I'm the asshole.

I haven't talked to him since other than let him know by message he's fucked up. But honestly am i missing something? Is the "I'd take a punch" or at least not have a chick cuss you out for no reason, not something i should expect in return? Like what currency with a wingman is to be reciprocated? What would you do?

Post: #46

Mate you've took a few punches to the face for this bum? And that's how he repays you? Short memory from him. Sounds like a user- he's going to take sides with some skank he's known for two minutes over you- what does that tell you- he's loyal only to his options and what is better for him. I say you go and see him in person and make sure he sees it from your point of view . If he can't see why you're displeased then he's a simpleton and its best you have nothing more to with him before he causes you to hurt him or he gets you hurt seriously .

On another not how did you handle the cunt who was shouting at you?

Post: #47

I let her rant. She posed no threat to me other than fleeting embarrassment in the street. I was most in shock that not an ounce of defense was had for me. Like even if he disagreed with my displeasure, he couldn't muster a "hey my friend's a good guy, just let it go and let's get out of here."

Post: #48

Man theres some sad pussy worship going on in here. Putting pussy before your mates is not how its done in my home country, it's Unaustralian. Bitches come and go, a good mate is for life.

OP you should next that backstabbing wingman, hes a dickhead. You do not try bang you mates girls. Period.

Post: #49

(09-27-2015 12:03 PM)CrashBangWallop Wrote:  About 10 years ago my life long best friend lied to me about his plans and met up with my then recent ex, of 3 years, at a hotel bar for drinks.

She text me a picture of him asleep in bed with her the morning after.

I've never spoken to him since other than to tell him why.

Nice. Once you've cast someone off, letting them back in is a big power play for them. They have to go.

As for the OP. As a penalty maybe you could make this wingman sit exactly like this while you take his mother.

Post: #50

@Jameson Ranger

You seem like a solid dude to go out with and slay some beesches.

Without having been there and knowing the other side of the story, sounds like this guy was acting pretty wheesh and thirsty to no end.

BUT....

How drunk was he? In both instances?

This is something that should at least temper your decision a bit. It doesn't excuse it, but it should put things in perspective. Many guys act retarded and get into a bad state when they are drunk. These guys you just don't get drunk with. Even guys who are 99.9% cool drinking buddies/wings can do some absolutely retarded stuff occassionally when drunk.

The key question is how did he feel about this after? Did he express regret about what he did or at least acknowledge it was simpish behaviour? This is where you find out what his priorities are.