Post: #51

(09-14-2015 08:30 PM)wi30 Wrote:  Call me an asshole, but at this point I just mock 9/11. Almost 3,000 people died over 14 years ago. I'm sure the U.S murders way more civilians every month in the Middle East. What makes an American civilian life more valuable than someone who happened to be born in the Middle East?

I texted my girlfriend "happy holidays" last Friday based on that scene. She got the joke immediately.

Knock knock.
Who's there?
9/11.
9/11 who?
You said you'd never forget!

And so on...

I don't think I've ever read a post here that rubbed me in such a wrong way as this one. I would like to invite you and your girl to step away from your cell phone and walk into a bar and tell this joke to a grown man who doesn't have a liberal arts degree. How about this, I'll buy your ticket to NYC and I'll even pay you a per diem if you say it to a fireman or a soldier.

Post: #52

(09-14-2015 11:09 PM)LINUX Wrote:  

(09-14-2015 08:30 PM)wi30 Wrote:  Call me an asshole, but at this point I just mock 9/11. Almost 3,000 people died over 14 years ago. I'm sure the U.S murders way more civilians every month in the Middle East. What makes an American civilian life more valuable than someone who happened to be born in the Middle East?

I texted my girlfriend "happy holidays" last Friday based on that scene. She got the joke immediately.

Knock knock.
Who's there?
9/11.
9/11 who?
You said you'd never forget!

And so on...

I don't think I've ever read a post here that rubbed me in such a wrong way as this one. I would like to invite you and your girl to step away from your cell phone and walk into a bar and tell this joke to a grown man who doesn't have a liberal arts degree. How about this, I'll buy your ticket to NYC and I'll even pay you a per diem if you say it to a fireman or a soldier.

Ill pay for half that ticket. Forum loses me with these threads.
It doesnt matter how many have been killed by the us in the Middle east. We can still mourn and remember the dead how we please.

Never forget

Post: #53

(09-14-2015 11:26 PM)godzilla Wrote:  

(09-14-2015 11:09 PM)LINUX Wrote:  

(09-14-2015 08:30 PM)wi30 Wrote:  Call me an asshole, but at this point I just mock 9/11. Almost 3,000 people died over 14 years ago. I'm sure the U.S murders way more civilians every month in the Middle East. What makes an American civilian life more valuable than someone who happened to be born in the Middle East?

I texted my girlfriend "happy holidays" last Friday based on that scene. She got the joke immediately.

Knock knock.
Who's there?
9/11.
9/11 who?
You said you'd never forget!

And so on...

I don't think I've ever read a post here that rubbed me in such a wrong way as this one. I would like to invite you and your girl to step away from your cell phone and walk into a bar and tell this joke to a grown man who doesn't have a liberal arts degree. How about this, I'll buy your ticket to NYC and I'll even pay you a per diem if you say it to a fireman or a soldier.

Ill pay for half that ticket. Forum loses me with these threads.
It doesnt matter how many have been killed by the us in the Middle east. We can still mourn and remember the dead how we please.

Never forget

I was about to ask how old the guy who made that post was back in 2001, but I think I can do the math and say he was nine. I think that says a lot.

Post: #54

(09-14-2015 11:29 PM)Merenguero Wrote:  

(09-14-2015 11:26 PM)godzilla Wrote:  

(09-14-2015 11:09 PM)LINUX Wrote:  

(09-14-2015 08:30 PM)wi30 Wrote:  Call me an asshole, but at this point I just mock 9/11. Almost 3,000 people died over 14 years ago. I'm sure the U.S murders way more civilians every month in the Middle East. What makes an American civilian life more valuable than someone who happened to be born in the Middle East?

I texted my girlfriend "happy holidays" last Friday based on that scene. She got the joke immediately.

Knock knock.
Who's there?
9/11.
9/11 who?
You said you'd never forget!

And so on...

I don't think I've ever read a post here that rubbed me in such a wrong way as this one. I would like to invite you and your girl to step away from your cell phone and walk into a bar and tell this joke to a grown man who doesn't have a liberal arts degree. How about this, I'll buy your ticket to NYC and I'll even pay you a per diem if you say it to a fireman or a soldier.

Ill pay for half that ticket. Forum loses me with these threads.
It doesnt matter how many have been killed by the us in the Middle east. We can still mourn and remember the dead how we please.

Never forget

I was about to ask how old the guy who made that post was back in 2001, but I think I can do the math and say he was nine. I think that says a lot.

You're correct given +/- a few months.

Post: #55

(09-14-2015 11:09 PM)LINUX Wrote:  

(09-14-2015 08:30 PM)wi30 Wrote:  Call me an asshole, but at this point I just mock 9/11. Almost 3,000 people died over 14 years ago. I'm sure the U.S murders way more civilians every month in the Middle East. What makes an American civilian life more valuable than someone who happened to be born in the Middle East?

I texted my girlfriend "happy holidays" last Friday based on that scene. She got the joke immediately.

Knock knock.
Who's there?
9/11.
9/11 who?
You said you'd never forget!

And so on...

I don't think I've ever read a post here that rubbed me in such a wrong way as this one. I would like to invite you and your girl to step away from your cell phone and walk into a bar and tell this joke to a grown man who doesn't have a liberal arts degree. How about this, I'll buy your ticket to NYC and I'll even pay you a per diem if you say it to a fireman or a soldier.

Amen Linux.

Post: #56

We escalated this to 'Never forget Thermopylae' yet?

Post: #57

You're so edgy bro^^^^

Post: #58

If it ended at remembering something as a tragedy it wouldn't bother me. What bothers me is the inability of Americans to realize that "Never Forget 9/11" is being used as a device of fear and anger to herd them into gung-ho supporting whatever political/military objective is on the current agenda.
The mainstream uses it as an annual fear mongering event to rein in the conformists and no one is any the wiser. Even better is the branding of any individual who questions it as un-American.
That's what bothers me.

Post: #59

(09-14-2015 08:30 PM)wi30 Wrote:  Call me an asshole, but at this point I just mock 9/11. Almost 3,000 people died over 14 years ago. I'm sure the U.S murders way more civilians every month in the Middle East. What makes an American civilian life more valuable than someone who happened to be born in the Middle East?




I texted my girlfriend "happy holidays" last Friday based on that scene. She got the joke immediately.

Knock knock.
Who's there?
9/11.
9/11 who?
You said you'd never forget!

And so on...

An abjectly false moral equivalence, because no one disputes that Salafists kill more fellow Muslims than non-Muslims. (The figure "80% of all deaths" from Islamist terrorism gets cited widely.) Islamism is a quest for moral and political purity within Islam, you ought to know.

And then there's the 2005 UN Report on Human Security, which found declining in trends in violence in all aspects of war, even as the War in Iraq reached its most violent levels. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_Secu...eport_2005
(The report was research compiled by schoolars outside the US, from Italy, Canada, and Scandanavia.)

Going back to the video I linked to above, and answering the question: "Why were we attacked on 9/11?" I'd point to Charlie Hebdo attacks in Paris: the bombing of trains in Madrid; the bomoing of buses in London.

Why were they attacked? For the same reason.

Although with 9/11 leader Mohammed Attah there was something special about the target, the Twin Towers - something left over from the attempt to bring down the World Trade Center Towers in 1993 (http://www.history.com/news/remembering-...-bombing): in Hamburg, Germany, where Attah studied architecture, he learned that in proper Islamic cities, the highest buildings are always Mosques. Anything else is an impudent insult to Allah! Thus, the US must be humbled before God.

And the date "9/11" was chosen to symbolize the rejoining of the Muslim campaign to subjugate the West, immediately after their defeat (the Ottoman Turks) at the Walls of Vienna, September 10th, 1663.
http://www.historytoday.com/walter-leits...ege-vienna

In short, we were - and are still - attacked because we are secular and Enlightened! - and they are the righteous mystical warriors who defend Islam and Allah!

Not really any different than what the War Aganst the Barbary states (Libya and Algeria) was about when the US had to defend fredom of the seas after the Founding decades, when Adams and Jefferson predicted that the US would fight Islam again for much the same reason.

And therefore the war will go on until Islam makes peace with the Enlightenment. There is no other end.

Analogously, the US waged the final pacification of the Indian from about 1862 in the Souix Uprising (which killed proportionately MORE people than 9/11 did) to Wounded Knee in 1893. The US campaign of pacification today - The "GWOT" as it's been dubbed - has proper precedence in our history.

Post: #60

I was 22 and in college at the time. Really a sad say. That is all everyone talked about. Believe it or not, that is the first time I became patriotic and was thinking of joining the military to do my part. I felt a sense of pride, and patriotism to be an American and I haven't felt that way at any point in my life. 9/11 did bring the country together, as cliche as it may sound. Bush had a 90% approval rating. I remember when Bush came out and I felt like was the best president of all time because of that speech. It was that deep

Post: #61

For everyone harping on me about the jokes, they are clearly jokes. I wouldn't make it though the day if I couldn't make jokes about even the darker parts of life. Are you guys equally offended when Daniel Tosh or Louis CK joke about 9/11? Linux, if I made a rape joke would you tell me to go say it to a victim of rape?

Like I said, obviously it's horrible when innocent people die. But why do we have to put the 9/11 victims on a pedestal? The example I was trying to make is that innocent people are killed all the time. It's sad but I'm not going to cry about it 14 years later.

Tuth put it best in the Look up, Bitch thread posted earlier.

Quote:anonymous123 Wrote:
I don't think the 9/11 post is in good taste. I get the concept you are going after, but 9/11 hit a lot of us hard and some of us have ties in the wall street community with direct impact from that photo. I just think this one should be off limits.

You are the moderator. Your call.

(08-31-2014 04:38 PM)Tuthmosis Wrote:  @anonymous123: This forum does not provide trigger warnings for 13-year-old historical events. If an image that was once on the cover of Time Magazine has a crippling emotional effect on you, perhaps this isn't the right forum for you. Your use of feminist shaming language in the past seems to suggest that it isn't.

Furthermore, you should raise concerns like this over PM. Don't derail threads to create public drama.

Post: #62

(09-14-2015 08:30 PM)wi30 Wrote:  Call me an asshole, but at this point I just mock 9/11. Almost 3,000 people died over 14 years ago. I'm sure the U.S murders way more civilians every month in the Middle East. What makes an American civilian life more valuable than someone who happened to be born in the Middle East?




I texted my girlfriend "happy holidays" last Friday based on that scene. She got the joke immediately.

Knock knock.
Who's there?
9/11.
9/11 who?
You said you'd never forget!

And so on...

You have been on this forum for 5 years and only have two rep points....shocking..... shocking you have that many.

Post: #63

Isnt there some comic about a feminist shoveling her opinions on the net. And running for help when the internet gives there opinion back?

I dont recall anyone responding in a rude manner, yet buddy here is trying to summon tuth to his defense because others don't share his opinions and are expressing that in a civil manner.

Post: #64

Whatever your opinions of the true nature of the 9/11 attacks, those tired of its memory after 14 years have chosen a hard path.

The 9/11 attacks were absolutely enormous on the level of spectacle. Had Carthage attacked Rome, hell, had Lagash attacked Umma in such a sudden, destructive and unforeseen-by-the-common-man fashion, we would still remember it.

These things aren't just, you know, something that equals however many car crashes it takes to reach their death toll. They are spectacles, milestones, psychic maelstroms. They're history.

Post: #65

(09-14-2015 05:18 PM)TonySandos Wrote:  I can agree with most of what you say, and my questions about why the attack happened haven't been satisfied with answers, but why do you think it was impossible for mid-level structural damage to collapse two of the tallest buildings at the time? The only buildings taller existed in Indonesia, Taiwan, UAE, China and Saudi Arabia.

I saw the destruction sight in person before any reconstruction had started. There were buildings that looked to be impossibly distant to have taken damage from falling debris, but blocks away I saw large piece of buildings gone like Godzilla had came there. It is believable to me that 'building 7' was destroyed, so were two other buildings in the vicinity that were trade center buildings, according to the visitor placards. I understand skepticism and I think it's allowed people to not be led by malevolent 9/11 propaganda when a few make duty of debunking war rhetoric and such. I just come to a loss when people suggest that in such proportions, the steel couldn't be jerked down. I'm not shutting the idea down, but I remain unconvinced by others only voicing, "it can't!".

Let me introduce Mr. Larry Silverstein:



He's referring to building 7 here. It doesn't take a demolition expert to know that this isn't a videogame, you don't just send in a crew of sappers to rig a building and bring it down. It takes at least weeks, usually months of planning. Also, you don't give an order to "Pull it" to a fire chief. One of the WTC buildings was rigged for a demolition on the same day that terrorists attack and bring down 2 other neighboring buildings? Talk about odds...



@TigerMandingo I used to read Noam Chomsky when I was idealistic, pissed off teenager, but he's not someone I would turn to for an opinion or guidance on anything these days, much less the subject at hand. I would ask of him and others like yourself, Explain to me why building 7 was rigged for detonation on the same day that a terrorist attack occurred on two other buildings in the same complex? I'm more than willing to suspend my suspicions for a good 'ol fashioned coincidence, but unfortunately this is not one of those times.

Post: #66

(09-15-2015 05:47 AM)wi30 Wrote:  For everyone harping on me about the jokes, they are clearly jokes. I wouldn't make it though the day if I couldn't make jokes about even the darker parts of life. Are you guys equally offended when Daniel Tosh or Louis CK joke about 9/11? Linux, if I made a rape joke would you tell me to go say it to a victim of rape?

Like I said, obviously it's horrible when innocent people die. But why do we have to put the 9/11 victims on a pedestal? The example I was trying to make is that innocent people are killed all the time. It's sad but I'm not going to cry about it 14 years later.

It doesn't surprise me that you glossed over when Linux mentioned firefighters and soldiers.

It isn't just about putting the victims on a pedestal. It's also about recognizing the people who ran into collapsing buildings to help those innocent victims. They gave their lives helping people like yourself.

It's easy for guys like you to sit back, joke around and make comments like you are in this thread. Make no mistake, the minute you need someone you will be thanking God that there are men out there like those firefighters, soldiers and cops.

This is about being a decent human being and recognizing the sacrifices much better men than you or I have made for the greater good of our society.

Post: #67

Post: #68

----------------------------------------

Post: #69

And here is an example of how America's reaction to that day has "changed everything." This kid made a clock. He took it to school. The teachers said it looked like a bomb. He was arrested.

http://www.dallasnews.com/news/community...5f733e6d90

This would not have happened in the 1990's. Why should I be more patriotic? Every day, I'm more and more embarrassed to be an American.

Post: #70

(09-15-2015 11:01 AM)Veloce Wrote:  

(09-14-2015 05:18 PM)TonySandos Wrote:  I can agree with most of what you say, and my questions about why the attack happened haven't been satisfied with answers, but why do you think it was impossible for mid-level structural damage to collapse two of the tallest buildings at the time? The only buildings taller existed in Indonesia, Taiwan, UAE, China and Saudi Arabia.

I saw the destruction sight in person before any reconstruction had started. There were buildings that looked to be impossibly distant to have taken damage from falling debris, but blocks away I saw large piece of buildings gone like Godzilla had came there. It is believable to me that 'building 7' was destroyed, so were two other buildings in the vicinity that were trade center buildings, according to the visitor placards. I understand skepticism and I think it's allowed people to not be led by malevolent 9/11 propaganda when a few make duty of debunking war rhetoric and such. I just come to a loss when people suggest that in such proportions, the steel couldn't be jerked down. I'm not shutting the idea down, but I remain unconvinced by others only voicing, "it can't!".

Let me introduce Mr. Larry Silverstein:



He's referring to building 7 here. It doesn't take a demolition expert to know that this isn't a videogame, you don't just send in a crew of sappers to rig a building and bring it down. It takes at least weeks, usually months of planning. Also, you don't give an order to "Pull it" to a fire chief. One of the WTC buildings was rigged for a demolition on the same day that terrorists attack and bring down 2 other neighboring buildings? Talk about odds...



@TigerMandingo I used to read Noam Chomsky when I was idealistic, pissed off teenager, but he's not someone I would turn to for an opinion or guidance on anything these days, much less the subject at hand. I would ask of him and others like yourself, Explain to me why building 7 was rigged for detonation on the same day that a terrorist attack occurred on two other buildings in the same complex? I'm more than willing to suspend my suspicions for a good 'ol fashioned coincidence, but unfortunately this is not one of those times.

Well I'll be damned...

I'd have to fact check ol' Larry to be a firebrand believer. I've been asking big name conservative pundits on facebook and twitter, "Hi I'm a veteran. I see you support Israel. Please know the Mossad is on our defense watchlist" I get instantly blocked every time. International policy smells worse and worse so much that I'm liable to believe it's all lies on the first go around.

Post: #71

Summoning Tuth to my defense? I posted that to show the irony of how in one thread people defend a 9/11 joke yet I'm getting crucified in this thread for posting a family guy reference and a dumb knock knock joke.

I get if it if you don't have that sense of humor, not everyone does.

Worldwidetraveler: I understand the sacrifices that were made and greatly appreciate them. Joking about serious topics doesn't decrease the importance of the event. However, how much time much pass until it is acceptable to make jokes about an event? South Park often takes the "too soon" route, which makes it more funny due to the inappropriateness of it all.

Post: #72

I can certainly see both sides here. If the dominant theme was remember the brave sacrifices made for the people risking their life's for others(like remembrance day), I don't think that anyone would have a problem. Instead it's a yearly reminder to be afraid. That terrorists and Boogey men are out to get you, and only by sacrificing rights and yielding power to various factions can you be saved.

As puckerman said, this is the America that they've left themselves. A paranoid shell of its former self. No one is dying from terrorism these days (would they have otherwise?), but you have people (while using movies for their knowledge of what bombs look like) turning on brown neighbors. The terrorists won. The goal of terrorism isn't to kill and maim, rather to make people afraid of everything. Paranoid and petrified by fear. This is why I have an issue with the whole never forget angle.

Instead of a WWII era "we will not be afraid, we will not cower, we will not sacrifice what it means to be American!" it was "sacrifice your rights, if you see something say something, because granny could have a bomb, and remain afraid, they're out to get you, and only we can keep you safe!"

Post: #73

(09-14-2015 12:02 PM)AFS Wrote:  Yes - thank you. I thought I was the only one who felt this way. For people who lost family and loved ones, I can understand why they remember. But for everybody else, exactly WHY are we remembering this event? 30,000 people die in car accidents every year. Totally preventable accidents because most people are too stupid to learn how to drive properly - where is the outrage on that?

Are we remembering the fact the terrorists attacked us? Why is this worth remembering? We were attacked by a terrorist organization we trained ourselves and because of our retarded middle east foreign policy. The CIA and the president all knew the terrorists were here and what they planned (this is not conspiracy theory shit, it was in the NYTimes and other papers), and they let it happen for political purposes.

Literally every day Bush would get a memo that a plane would fly into a building, and they ignored it. Then they obstructed the 9/11 commission until it was a total farce. If people really wanted to remember the "tragedy" of 9/11, why didn't they impeach Bush and throw him in jail? Why did they elect him a second time? Obviously, they don't give a shit about the root causes of 9/11 or whose to blame, they just want to feel good about being angry!

The very same day 3000 Americans died, him and Cheney had a meeting on how they could pin the attack on Iraq. They launched a BS war that left thousands of soldiers and civilians dead. The constitution and bill of rights were completely trashed - and we still have the Patriot Act to this day. Again, why the hell do I want to be reminded of this?

Do we remember it because we "all came together?" Again, Americans coming together gave us the Iraq War and Patriot Act. We just acted like total bloodthirsty, ignorant morons.

The quicker we forget about 9/11, the better.

This is the response that is important.

Never forget, a battle cry to keep anger going is just brainwashing. We're victims! You caused this, so we can do whatever we want, cause it hurts! Sounds like something people here would be against, not promote.

We should try to remember how stupid Americans can be. Weapons of mass destruction? Sadam has a a nuclear weapon, oh wait, chemical weapons, oh wait, they are hidden in a tunnel somewhere, that's why we can't find them. While the U.S. signed oil agreements with some ad hoc govt they put in place, murdered hundreds of thousands of people.

Why can't people remember that information?

Sheep keep on sheeping.

Post: #74

People should really just get over it. YES it was tragic but for fuck's sake it'll soon be 2 decades ago. I just now surprised myself that it has actually been THAT long because the people keep bringing out that old tired dead horse and parading it around it feels like it happened just yesterday. Not because I'm that emotionally hit by it but because people simply refuse to let a tragedy rest in dignity.

Case in point:

Quote:Believe it or not, that is the first time I became patriotic and was thinking of joining the military to do my part.

It was a perfect instrument to drum up army enlistment and carte blanche support for any kind of military measures for years to come, and it's still working! "Joining the military to do my part" what part? Sticking your dick into the beehive that is the Middle East, dicking around foreign countries? For what purpose, to enrich the guys who sent you there? That makes you feel patriotic?

The US is really egocentric about itself at times. We enjoy a perfectly secure geographical position, peace for centuries and then 1 event happens and the whole country goes into eternal shock and can't recover from it. While other countries have mass shootings and bombings and internal warfare and strife and people somehow manage to deal with it and go on about their life, our sheltered life has made us go into a catatonic state as soon as something out of the ordinary happens on our soil. Same thing happened during the Boston bombing, 2 nuts set off a couple bombs and the whole huge city completely shut down in panic.

And we still haven't learned probably the most obvious question from the 9/11 attacks: it doesn't feel good when someone else attacks you on your home soil. So why do we keep agitating and doing it to other nations' home turf and why are the people who are the most gung-ho about remember 9/11 also the first ones to support wars in foreign countries? Because I'm pretty sure that's how other people feel too when another drone shoots a rocket in the middle of the street or shoots the wrong house and the army goes "oh woops lol sorry, we thought there was a terrorist there. our mistake. no hard feelings, it's collateral damage, this shit happens"

Post: #75

(09-15-2015 11:01 AM)Veloce Wrote:  @TigerMandingo I used to read Noam Chomsky when I was idealistic, pissed off teenager, but he's not someone I would turn to for an opinion or guidance on anything these days, much less the subject at hand. I would ask of him and others like yourself, Explain to me why building 7 was rigged for detonation on the same day that a terrorist attack occurred on two other buildings in the same complex? I'm more than willing to suspend my suspicions for a good 'ol fashioned coincidence, but unfortunately this is not one of those times.

Honestly, I have no idea why. Here's what I do know: the miniscule number of physicists and engineers who go against the grain and disagree with the official version have yet to submit their evidence for peer-review. Why? If these people are so confident in their version of events, why not submit it to academic journals and organizations to be evaluated? Chomsky had a great point on that in the video.

(09-16-2015 08:57 AM)NO_LIMIT_CRACKA Wrote:  And we still haven't learned probably the most obvious question from the 9/11 attacks: it doesn't feel good when someone else attacks you on your home soil. So why do we keep agitating and doing it to other nations' home turf and why are the people who are the most gung-ho about remember 9/11 also the first ones to support wars in foreign countries? Because I'm pretty sure that's how other people feel too when another drone shoots a rocket in the middle of the street or shoots the wrong house and the army goes "oh woops lol sorry, we thought there was a terrorist there. our mistake. no hard feelings, it's collateral damage, this shit happens"

Great point. Sometimes you gotta look in the mirror and 9/11 was the perfect opportunity to do that. Instead, the US doubled down on foreign aggression and became even more paranoid.