(09-08-2016 03:07 PM)Travesty Wrote:  3. You have been in Vietnam for a bit of time it seems mostly in Saigon? I would think that girls not wanting to get married until 28 may be an urban Saigon thing. I went on a date with a girl where her sisters and brothers in the early mid 20s were all married with kids already (lower-class Saigon family on the outskirts).

Also my friend that just got married to a 30 year old Saigon girl said that it was very rare and strange from her family from the countryside to stay single so long.

That part was a head-scratcher for me too. I don't like to hear the importance of a "career" in the psyche of any woman I marry. Her career should be creating a world (home) for the family.

One of the tenants of feminism is that a woman can do it "All". That is, be both masculine and feminine (on a metaphysical level). In the world it gets played out with her having the career by day (being masculine) and then assuming the role of wife/mother in the evening (being feminine).

This kind of dual existence is what causes so much suffering and bitterness with women. They simply aren't wired to be masculine. It goes against their grain and they don't achieve any kind of fulfillment with it. Quite the opposite really, and to try and be "The All" on top of that will drive most anyone to madness.

Of course there is a difference between working because your family needs to eat and having a "career". And I think it's ok to marry a career woman if she's at the point where she wants to let all that go to be feminine again.

Maybe in Saigon they have the career until late 20's and then they chuck it aside altogether to be homemaker instead of trying to do both through retirement like the do in the West?

Malone, what do you think?

And what is your plan for when you're back home? Will she be a homemaker, or will she be working out in the world in some way?

Also thanks for answering all of Travesty's questions. It was helpful.

A few comments on a very interesting topic:

1
As for bringing back a foreign girl with the looks out of your league:
There has been some discussions on village girls vs city girls and the general conclusion was, that city girls are already conditioned to thirsty men and all the possibilities. For them it will be a smaller step up when arriving in the West. For village girls it will be a huge step up with the chance that she will adapt western culture 100% and run away with a rich dude. However, some will stay clear.

I once remember reading an article about Amish people - the ones living primarily in Lancaster county, PA. When they turn 18 everybody gets a chance to do the “rumspringen” which means they leave they protected Amish family and crash directly into the Western World with all its temptations, electric power, cars, dating, fucking, getting drunk, maybe drugs, getting a “normal job”. Then after some time, a couple of months, maybe a year they will have to decide whether they want to stay in the modern World or go back to their Amish family for good, marry an Amish person, get Amish children etc. 90% go back to their families - only 10% stay in the West and get a “normal” life. So 18 years of social conditioning is VERY powerful - even for Ukranian village girls.

Anyhow I was thinking of testing that 8+ girl you just met in EE or Vietnam. Ultimately bring her back to your western country for a 3 month tourist stay. Let her stay in your apartment, give her a smartphone with unlimited calls and internet, open instagram accounts with her, facebook, snapchat etc etc. Take her out in an environment with lots of thirsty men, give her a crash course in Western lifestyle, expose her to as many rich and handsome men as possible. Watch her reactions. Spy on her behavior. I dont know, is it possible to install some sort of a spy app on a phone: I think parents can do something like that with their children. Go on a small business trip for a few days and suddenly show up earlier than expected to see if she is out dating other men already. I think after 3 months you will have a gut feeling if she will stay with you or potentially run away.

2
I recently read an article written by a woman with the topic on how to keep your girl/woman with you and thus not loosing her for somebody else: in the West the divorce rate is 50% and 75% of those divorces are initiated by the woman. Well, her studies after talking to countless women concluded: a) make her laugh, b) make her cum … and she will never run away. This makes me wonder: How good are these men who bring a girl back home (the men who loose the foreign girl after a short period in the West)? I mean, if he has a good job and a nice house and is spending many hours at his job being able to pay all the bills - is he making her happy when coming home each night? Is he making her laugh on a daily basis. Has he invested sufficient time in giving her multiple orgasms … and not just fake ones. Has he put an effort into making her squirt. This part of the equation is never discussed here. Of course she will run away with a rich guy - but what are the chances that he can give her multiple orgasms? I bet she is already looking for another guy again. I am just wondering: These men who lost their 8+ girl in the West … did they really invest in her and that relationship - and not just having a trophy to show off while driving a convertible around town?

idane,

It's my belief you have to limit temptation and opportunity to have a successful marriage. Many men who are successful, make their wives squirt and all the rest still get cheated on because they gave their wives too much rope. Too much access to temptation.

We're all human, and human's are prone to giving into temptation. Men a little less perhaps because we side with the masculine dimension of reality. Morality is an aspect of the masculine. Women simply don't consider it primary. Existence, being in the moment, feelings, etc. are primary for them and as such they can easily get swept away.

How may times have all of us swept a girl off her feet and into bed? Yes, in part because of our game, but also in part because they are so susceptible to being swept anyways.

If you want fidelity in a marriage the more successful approach is to remove opportunity where temptation can exist. Some may not agree and say that's weak, beta, etc. But there is nothing beta about stepping up, taking hold of the reigns of a relationship and setting the course for what will happen, and what won't.

In my eyes, it's very masculine to do so. The weaker way is to not step up, not create rules, and just "go with the flow" and "see what happens". The latter is actually feminine.

(09-08-2016 04:28 PM)Onto Wrote:  idane,

It's my belief you have to limit temptation and opportunity to have a successful marriage. Many men who are successful, make their wives squirt and all the rest still get cheated on because they gave their wives too much rope. Too much access to temptation.

We're all human, and human's are prone to giving into temptation. Men a little less perhaps because we side with the masculine dimension of reality. Morality is an aspect of the masculine. Women simply don't consider it primary. Existence, being in the moment, feelings, etc. are primary for them and as such they can easily get swept away.

How may times have all of us swept a girl off her feet and into bed? Yes, in part because of our game, but also in part because they are so susceptible to being swept anyways.

If you want fidelity in a marriage the more successful approach is to remove opportunity where temptation can exist. Some may not agree and say that's weak, beta, etc. But there is nothing beta about stepping up, taking hold of the reigns of a relationship and setting the course for what will happen, and what won't.

In my eyes, it's very masculine to do so. The weaker way is to not step up, not create rules, and just "go with the flow" and "see what happens". The latter is actually feminine.

I disagree with you a bit on this.

If you create too many restrictions, the same thing will happen like when you're a kid and your parents say don't eat the dirt but you eat it anyways. Limits and restrictions are important, but reasonable limits. I've some some pretty saddening suggestions on this forum in regards to restrictions they want to place on their women, which are completely absurd. I wish I had the time to find them, but I've some guys on this forum say they won't allow their woman to go to the pub for a few drinks for a friends birthday (a pub, not a club). This kind of restrictive behaviour is toxic, and won't lead to good things. I'm not saying let your woman go whoring it up at a club - but be reasonable, and firm. She'll see that you're a 'real man', respect that you allow her to have certain liberties, but will not stray.

This forum is about self improvement. Becoming the best man you can be - but I'm seeing so much commentary about men worried that another man will snatch their woman. Listen - if your woman is going to cheat and leave you, she's going to cheat and leave you. Stop focusing on other men, and the prospective theft of your woman.

The fact is - if you're not worthy, you're going to get left in the dust, and if she leaves you for a rich man, hey - she's a whore, and wasn't worth the effort anyways.

But hey, by all means - shackle up your girl and confine her to the kitchen. It's none of my business.

By that logic she should be able to work nights as a bartender or maybe as a cop or on a wall street trading floor surrounded by other guys at work and going out for happy hour after. If she strays, then hey, it's your own fault for not being man enough. Has nothing to do with the environment she's in.

There's a difference between natural curiosity/taboo in a child's development and allowing an environment where temptation is easily indulged. If I were to use the same child analogy it would be like storing the house cookies in your child nightstand instead of the high part of the kitchen cupboard.

Being the best man you can be doesn't change the nature of the universe.

(09-08-2016 04:28 PM)Onto Wrote:  In my eyes, it's very masculine to do so. The weaker way is to not step up, not create rules, and just "go with the flow" and "see what happens". The latter is actually feminine.

I totally agree with you @Onto, I think dating girls of high value is complex. I am still young, but some years ago, I was dating a peruvian girl who i really liked, She was a solid 7, but she looked like a foreigner, She was white,tall,light brown hair,pretty face.

She was into me and soon We started a relationship, at the beginning, i thought It was beta to put rules or control her,but when We go out, all thirsty guys eye fuck her, some rich dudes sent invitations to her in facebook, other things. She was considered as 9, 2 points more than her real quality, just because she was white. In that time, I had to be the man and put the rules, it was a little hard, invested time and big effort.

By the way, I ended relationship because I was focus in other goals,but Definitely If you are not going to invest the necessary, the girl will be a pain in the ass, Especially girls above 7`s

(09-08-2016 04:46 PM)WeekendCasanova Wrote:  The fact is - if you're not worthy, you're going to get left in the dust, and if she leaves you for a rich man, hey - she's a whore, and wasn't worth the effort anyways.

You a creating a boogie man of some control freak that doesn't exist. This is just being smart and cautionary.

And if you bring a girl back (usually the only easy way is to legally marry) you risk losing much of your wealth in divorce and family is ripped apart.

We aren't talking about some chick you like to take out on the weekends for fun.

No matter how high you get on the worthiness ladder there will always be girls above you (either in reality or in their own minds) on that ladder that will burn down your life.

You are starting to sound like the type of guy that would come back with a story "I brought my hot Ukranian 8.5 back to Canada, because I have value as a man, no problems!" then a picture surfaces and she is a 6.

So yes - I've also been around a bit in Vietnam and you're right that it's probably easier to find a LTR focused girl outside of Saigon. I also absolutely hate the place now after having lived there a lot, and couldn't wait to leave. You know that joke about what's the difference between a starry eyed idealist and a racist? In Saigon for me that number was about 6 months.

The 28 to get married thing is a common belief. Thankfully, it's like most of their other beliefs: Really, really flimsy. Most Viet girls are quite eager to be led. They're generally not the career oriented type, but there is a tinge of feminism in the society. They all pretty much know they can't "Have it all" - but mostly they don't have a choice. They need two incomes. Extended family often takes care of the children.

She's going to be a stay at home mom. However, there's a bit of an exception there. She, like a lot of Viet girls, is a hustler. She had a business reselling wholesale-bought clothes in high school, and other businesses. She's born for sales and is damn good at it. So I'm going to push her to setup a location independent business. No way she's getting a job.

I've read a few of these posts and it seems clear that a lot of guys on this thread have never had a girl that was seriously into them. I'm talking puppy love, eyes light up when she sees you, was practising signing your last name on her signature the day she laid eyes on you, retard level smitten.

If you find that and if you're smart/honourable enough not to fuck it up then you will never look back.

I agree that finding some chick that's "pretty into you I guess..." is not enough. Even if you made it work it would only be a shadow of the real deal. They will get sick of you over time (and vice versa) and when the chips are down they will jump ship, guaranteed.

(09-09-2016 03:49 AM)Leonard D Neubache Wrote:  I've read a few of these posts and it seems clear that a lot of guys on this thread have never had a girl that was seriously into them. I'm talking puppy love, eyes light up when she sees you, was practising signing your last name on her signature the day she laid eyes on you, retard level smitten.

If you find that and if you're smart/honourable enough not to fuck it up then you will never look back.

I agree that finding some chick that's "pretty into you I guess..." is not enough. Even if you made it work it would only be a shadow of the real deal. They will get sick of you over time (and vice versa) and when the chips are down they will jump ship, guaranteed.

I got this. I pipelined a woman on a Philippines trip. She is 15 years younger than me. Master's degree, works for a global firm for the usual shit PI outsourcing money. Helps her family. Had a very strong father who is now dead. A religious Catholic. One failed long term relationship with a guy who was working in Saudi Arabia, otherwise was just working long hours and going home. Lives in a poor but not slum neighborhood.

Dated her, we hit it off, plenty of laughs, university level English. Second date. Turned out she was a virgin - I wrote about it on RVF and was mocked, but it was a fact. I did not know she was beforehand.

5'4" Slender enough, but could take off 10 lbs to get rid of that Filipina rice flab belly. Also needs rest, a better diet and some skin care to get her up to 7. She could also dress better. She is a bit of a rehab project, but good foundation.

I was bouncing in and out of the PI due to travel and work. I found that when I was in other places I missed her company. After staying in Bangkok for a couple of months, got bored enough with pidgin English Thai girls to fly her there.

Her IQ is 123, she took a credible online test which I also took (I scored higher . and it comported with my previous tests minus dead brain cells).

I understand all of the caveats about marrying Filipinas. I recognize the huge improvement in her quality of life which I represent. I know her devotion is related to that, but is not exclusively from that (my game and good looks, ha ha). In a way, it is like a Cinderella story.

I could never live in the PI, I would be like those bitter guys who comment on the PhilippineFailBlog if I did. On the other hand, I know from recent experience that the dating environment for someone my age in Europe or USA is brutal. Solution: import her.

So, I have to marry her to take her to Europe or the USA, just for the visa. Of course there will be a prenup.

15 years younger is a real bonus.

Assuming you're not both over the hill, you'll be able to offer a stable environment for future kids while she'll be young enough to sire healthy pups.

Aside, I've always been interested in doing a reliable IQ test. Does the one you used still exist?

(09-09-2016 06:07 AM)Leonard D Neubache Wrote:  15 years younger is a real bonus.

Assuming you're not both over the hill, you'll be able to offer a stable environment for future kids while she'll be young enough to sire healthy pups.

Aside, I've always been interested in doing a reliable IQ test. Does the one you used still exist?

We are both over the hill. I have dated women 25 years younger recently, but not as sustainable or at least not as compatible long-term.

This IQ test was at https://iq-research.info

All pattern recognition, no verbal testing.

Malone,

20+ years seems a bit risky, even for a Vietnamese.

How would you rate your looks?

How would you rate hers?

(09-08-2016 05:26 PM)Travesty Wrote:  

(09-08-2016 04:46 PM)WeekendCasanova Wrote:  The fact is - if you're not worthy, you're going to get left in the dust, and if she leaves you for a rich man, hey - she's a whore, and wasn't worth the effort anyways.

And if you bring a girl back (usually the only easy way is to legally marry) you risk losing much of your wealth in divorce and family is ripped apart.

I'm aware that this is a worry, however, it's the same with any woman. I know there's no way to 100 percent be certain, but it's worth it to bring a girl back to your country for a short period, even if for two weeks to see how she acts. On this thread, some people are making it out to be a mad dash - find a woman, bring her home the next week; obviously in this case, you're opening yourself up to a whole host of issues.

Again, I'm not saying never have restrictions. I'm saying place reasonable ones.

Quote:You are starting to sound like the type of guy that would come back with a story "I brought my hot Ukranian 8.5 back to Canada, because I have value as a man, no problems!" then a picture surfaces and she is a 6.

I never made any inferences about you, your judgment in women, or how you value you them, so I don't see why you need to bring this up. Because I said that 'reasonable restrictions' are important, but not excessive? My bad - sorry I like to allow my woman out of the house occasionally. You can search this forum, and I know you'll find comments about men who support not allowing their women to have a drink at a pub with some friends. Spin it any way you want; but that's too restrictive. If she's out at a club, yeah obviously that's a no-go.

If you find a wife from a Asia, you won't have this problem since most of them lack basic social skills anyways.

Edit: this all presupposes that you don't have children yet. When children enter the picture, this all changes.

(09-08-2016 04:50 PM)Onto Wrote:  By that logic she should be able to work nights as a bartender or maybe as a cop or on a wall street trading floor surrounded by other guys at work and going out for happy hour after. If she strays, then hey, it's your own fault for not being man enough. Has nothing to do with the environment she's in.

Apparently, my 'reasonable restrictions' phrase is being passed over. Would I allow my wife to be a bartender on weekends? Absolutely not.

You're taking the extreme here, and it's a tad disingenuous. It's a simple fact, the most women have a largely female social circle. And if we're talking foreign women - even more so. Presumably, most men on this forum don't want to marry a woman from their home country - you'll likely bring a foreign woman home, with zero social circle.

Of course she'll receive attention from the local men, which is why it's important to not rush, see how she acts in your country first, before deciding to marry her. Do your due diligence, to reduce risk.

(09-08-2016 04:50 PM)Onto Wrote:  Being the best man you can be doesn't change the nature of the universe.

It doesn't. Nor does setting rules and restrictions change the nature of human psychology. Whether or not you restrict her, chances are she'll lie to you "Yes, I'm at the mall" when in reality she's at that pub, bar or whatever. You'll have compliant wife, but a deceitful one. Allow your wife some freedom ('reasonable'), and the chances of her deceiving you are a lot slimmer. I have to emphasize reasonable, because it keeps being passed over. I am not saying let her hit up a club, or hangout with all men. I am saying, she should be allowed social time, and call me crazy!....but maybe she should be allowed to see some sun every here now and again.

As I said above - with asian women, you likely won't have this problem. Unless she's an Asian 10, chances are you won't have many local men pinning for them, unless they have some sort of fetish.

But anyways, I'm really not here to debate this. Each man has their own way to handle their wife, or woman, so I won't pretend to know which way is best - the fact is, no one does.

^ Ahh.

WeekendCasanova I was trolling you with the 6 goggle UA girl you out class me though with the Asian girls have no social skills so no worries.

That made my day.

(09-09-2016 09:38 AM)WeekendCasanova Wrote:  

(09-08-2016 04:50 PM)Onto Wrote:  By that logic she should be able to work nights as a bartender or maybe as a cop or on a wall street trading floor surrounded by other guys at work and going out for happy hour after. If she strays, then hey, it's your own fault for not being man enough. Has nothing to do with the environment she's in.

Apparently, my 'reasonable restrictions' phrase is being passed over. Would I allow my wife to be a bartender on weekends? Absolutely not.

You're taking the extreme here, and it's a tad disingenuous. It's a simple fact, the most women have a largely female social circle. And if we're talking foreign women - even more so. Presumably, most men on this forum don't want to marry a woman from their home country - you'll likely bring a foreign woman home, with zero social circle.

Of course she'll receive attention from the local men, which is why it's important to not rush, see how she acts in your country first, before deciding to marry her. Do your due diligence, to reduce risk.

(09-08-2016 04:50 PM)Onto Wrote:  Being the best man you can be doesn't change the nature of the universe.

It doesn't. Nor does setting rules and restrictions change the nature of human psychology. Whether or not you restrict her, chances are she'll lie to you "Yes, I'm at the mall" when in reality she's at that pub, bar or whatever. You'll have compliant wife, but a deceitful one. Allow your wife some freedom ('reasonable'), and the chances of her deceiving you are a lot slimmer. I have to emphasize reasonable, because it keeps being passed over. I am not saying let her hit up a club, or hangout with all men. I am saying, she should be allowed social time, and call me crazy!....but maybe she should be allowed to see some sun every here now and again.

As I said above - with asian women, you likely won't have this problem. Unless she's an Asian 10, chances are you won't have many local men pinning for them, unless they have some sort of fetish.

But anyways, I'm really not here to debate this. Each man has their own way to handle their wife, or woman, so I won't pretend to know which way is best - the fact is, no one does.

It's ok to debate it. It's an important topic and you're not the only one who shares your view. It's probably one of the trickiest to navigate in a marriage.

We have disagreed on this in previous threads and I'm sure we'll continue to do so in the future and I think it's good because it shows people both sides of the argument and they can think for themselves where they want to be on the spectrum and even why.

I don't think taking an example of the argument to the extreme is disingenuous. In fact taking it to the extreme (in either direction) brings the foundation of the argument into the light instead of keeping it hidden within the shades of gray. If the argument doesn't hold true at the extremes then there is some kind of problem with it and it needs to be looked into for the reason why.

In this case the argument is allowing your wife to have the freedom to be in situations where temptation can occur. Or maybe the argument is whether temptation is an important factor in fidelity.

In your response you seem to think that any kind of restrictions on a woman will push them to lie to you so they can have their freedom anyway. The whole purpose of finding a foreign bride is she's been raised to take her freedom (her being) in serving home and hearth as opposed to an American who serves only her self-indugences. If you marry an American woman and try to reign her in you may get the backlash you are speaking of, but with a foreign bride who's been raised to find being in domesticity it's less likely (We hope) unless she's being exposed to feminist influence from new western friends. That danger was realized by a forum member earlier on in this thread or another one.

You mention if you restrict her from going to the bar with her friends than she will surely lie to you so that she can do it. My advice would be you should never wife-up a woman that wants to hang out in bars with their friends. This is referred to as a "bar-slut" and these girls are no better than the "club-slut" variety. More fun and better conversationalists maybe.

If you allow your wife to have girls night out where they are drinking at the bar and making themselves available to other men, eventually she'll be getting banged out in the parking lot. Maybe not the first year, or the during the first argument you have, but the day will probably come where she goes with the flow.

I've re-read your post again and it seems the scenario is a birthday event kind of thing. Ok, say she has 5 close friends and each of those friends have 5 different close friends. Now you have 30 birthdays a year where she's going out every other weekend with her friends to let their hair down and enjoy some freedom from the terrible servitude of being a wife. I don't see how that behavior helps strengthen and grow a marriage.

Can't they celebrate with a nice lunch or dinner at a restaurant? Someone hosts a potluck at their house? Would you even want your wife to be friends with women who are interested in gathering at bars to drink?

On another note, some don't want to place restrictions on their wives because they don't want to be held to the same restrictions themselves.

(09-09-2016 02:00 PM)Onto Wrote:  On another note, some don't want to place restrictions on their wives because they don't want to be held to the same restrictions themselves.

This is the real point.

And this is one I strongly believe if you expect your wife to not go to girls' nights at the bars you yourself need to reign it in and go to a sports event, join a rec league team with your boys or have them over instead of going out clubbing all night.

I really don't see how you can get the most fulfillment in a relationship if you are testing out of it.

Most guys I know in relationships that go out with the guys all night really don't like their wife or girlfriend very much and are sick of them.

The happiest guys I know with their girls don't party, they may flirt while dead sober in morning at the coffee shop. They aren't out walking the streets at 2AM though. They also still get pumped up about staying attractive and they treat the long time girl the same they would as a girl they are taking on a first date. They aim to bang her lights out.

(09-09-2016 02:24 PM)Travesty Wrote:  

(09-09-2016 02:00 PM)Onto Wrote:  On another note, some don't want to place restrictions on their wives because they don't want to be held to the same restrictions themselves.

This is the real point.

And this is one I strongly believe if you expect your wife to not go to girls' nights at the bars you yourself need to reign it in and go to a sports event, join a rec league team with your boys or have them over instead of going out clubbing all night.

I really don't see how you can get the most fulfillment in a relationship if you are testing out of it.

Most guys I know in relationships that go out with the guys all night really don't like their wife or girlfriend very much and are sick of them.

The happiest guys I know with their girls don't party, they may flirt while dead sober in morning at the coffee shop. They aren't out walking the streets at 2AM though. They also still get pumped up about staying attractive and they treat the long time girl the same they would as a girl they are taking on a first date. They aim to bang her lights out.

Lot of good back and forth recently in this thread. This kind of thinking of key. If your wife is the kind of girl that values being out at bars with her friends getting drunk, the whole marriage is built on a house of cards. Terrible red flags were not paid attention to.

Its fun to go out sometimes but I don't want women who drink, smoke, do drugs, like to party or want to "go out" at night to anyplace other than a small KTV place with their best friend. Asian KTV there aren't any random guys, its a small private party.

I want a woman who is at home cooking with her friends.

I hope I can shed a little light on this issue of “bringing her back.” My background is that I am older than most on this forum, and have practiced family law in the USA. In addition, I have lived and traveled in the FSU, Asia and Latin America and had relationships with women from each of those areas, as well as the USA. I have the requisite foreign language proficiency for a relationship with all three. I know the cultures of each quite well. I am currently married to an Asian and very happy. However, the overwhelming majority of my first-hand experience has been with EE women. I have witnessed dozens of relationship histories with EE women. Some of what I say applies more to that demographic, but to a large degree, people are people regardless of their national origin.
I also make the assumption that a man wishes to have a permanent relationship with a woman. One could have the attitude of “if she leaves, I might be sad for a while but I will just go bring me another one” and indeed some level of this attitude can be present in a normal relationship. If one is terrified that his beautiful foreign wife will leave him, it can become a self-fulfilling prophecy.
In my view, the biggest predicators for a successful marriage with an EE lady are, in rough order of priority, whether the lady’s parents are still together; her level of personal integrity; the financial stability of the relationship; the similarity in socio-economic backgrounds; her level of attractiveness; the age difference; and the area of the US in which you live. I do not think the city girl/village girl dichotomy is helpful.
I would say that the vast majority of EE women want to have a real marriage and do not enter the relationship just for money, but the financial issue and others always becomes more important with time. The EE is a divorce happy culture. However, I had many experiences of dating EE woman who seemed to be quite sincere; then I would be contacted by their husband or live-in boyfriend who told me they were just gold diggers.
The most common EE/US marriage I see is when the lady is intelligent and good looking, and the man is a loser; by that I mean, a drug addict, without steady means of employment, or with serious personal problems. Very often the lady is highly educated and ambitious, but failed to appreciate these issues before marriage. Or, to a lesser degree, the problem arises that the man has a blue collar job without better than average income. These marriages can last 1 year or 8 years, but they are generally doomed. Women who leave their home country in part do it for a better life.
It is very difficult to have success marrying an EE women in her mid 20s or earlier. They just are not mature yet. They can seem to be mature, but until they start losing their looks, they still have the goddess mentality. This is really the biggest issue. Even to their 40s EE women tend to be overly picky.
I have seen situations where the couple remains living in EE and the man has economic issues. These do not turn out well.
I do see success with the US man being handsome or charismatic, with loads of money, that marry hot women. I also see success with men with steady jobs who marry older ladies with a kid already.
With respect to money, women are all status conscious, and EE women will practice one-upmanship with their fellow expats on who has the flashiest cars, trinkets, etc. So it you have the money for this, you have a good chance of retaining her. You might be miserable with her, but she will stay. If you live in a flashy area, or a big city, she will be happier, but since your EE 7 is now a US 10, she will be hit on constantly. This can warp the mind of women who are less than quality character-wise. There will always be (or seem to be) someone younger, better looking and richer than you. The one-upmanship extends to the fidelity issue. If their friend left her husband for a good looking guy they will want to do the same. A lot of them divorce under the illusion that they can all get a handsome, rich, good looking guy in his late 20s early 30s, without realizing that none of these guys wants an EE headache. Then they either are alone forever and become ugly or settle for an average guy.
EE women do not respect weak men. I know many happily married EE couples and there is usually a constant power struggle.
If you, however, marry an EE girl in her late 20s or older, from a good family, educated, of similar socioeconomic background with a small (5-10) age difference and have a decent job, you have a reasonable chance of success.
As far as a pre-nup goes (and I am not giving anyone specific legal advice) I would not rely on one holding up against an immigrant whose native language is not English. If you have enough wealth now to be concerned, you should use other strategies such as trusts to deal with this issue.
Personally, if I were single, I could not imagine ever marrying a lady from the EE, unless I were going to live there the rest of my life. There are exceptions but I think Latin America or Asia is much better if you want a wife.

(09-10-2016 01:45 PM)thomasthewise Wrote:  A lot of them divorce under the illusion that they can all get a handsome, rich, good looking guy in his late 20s early 30s, without realizing that none of these guys wants an EE headache. Then they either are alone forever and become ugly or settle for an average guy.

Exactly. Many of them may confuse guys finding her attractive with guys who would wife them up. So they already have a pretty good guy now but have a "male 9" hitting on them. That "male 9" has a million options in the world and 99.9% of the time just wants to rack up notches. So this girl will burn down her pretty good life thinking she will upgrade when all that will happen is a pump and dump.

Definitely something that needs to be screened against before getting married to her.

This thomasthewise again spelled out my totem pole for ease of successful marriage based on cultural attitudes and how desired are the women.

1. Asian

2. Latina

....

3. EE girls (a far third)

Everytime EE girls are brought up there are always tons of caveats even in the best cases. That isn't a good sign.

^I'd flip the top two based on wanting a woman that actually fucks rather than one that lies there and whimpers, but maybe that's just me.

(08-22-2016 06:59 PM)Travesty Wrote:  If you bring a girl 1.0+ or higher above what you can usually get at home, back to the U.S. your game better be A/A+ day in and day out.

I don't want that burden for life with family, kids, aging/dying parent & relatives, and finances thrown in. I want to peacefully enjoy it. I don't want to see gaming my wife as a daily challenge I have to pass with flying colors. I am more than willing to take a hit on a girl's looks to achieve that.

Valuable wisdom.

(09-10-2016 01:45 PM)thomasthewise Wrote:  If you live in a flashy area, or a big city, she will be happier, but since your EE 7 is now a US 10, she will be hit on constantly. This can warp the mind of women who are less than quality character-wise.

This is what hangs in the balance. The guys in these situations try to take advantage of the disparity and how crappy in general western women have become, but then don't realize that the game has changed in a weird way when you enter back into the western cesspool of relatively average or bad girls, constant (social) media and newfound attention.

thomas, do you find that religious girls (thus, greater character) are available, or are they not because they don't typically move being more traditional, or are they generally less hot?

I had seen posted on other sites that if you did get an EE girl, you should look at the parents and basically try to understand that she was a solid christian, which would solve many of the above problems. I'm not sure how common that is in any of these countries post Soviet, though they historically have a great culture in that regard.