Post: #151

I want proportional representation. How is it fair that a majority government can be formed even if less than 50% of the people of voted chose them.

Post: #152

(04-23-2015 11:05 AM)Blackwell Wrote:  Haha yeah don't worry I was only joking about voting Green. I guess it's difficult to construe tone through text.

They wouldn't be able to do anything about the fees anyway. The Lib Dems folded on it so there's little chance the Green Party is going to deliver.

I doubt I'll ever vote for a woman candidate, let alone that Aussie nutjob.

I will probably end up voting UKIP if I vote at all. But I don't really believe in the whole system I don't think it's true democracy. I know it's all we have but I feel quite apathetic towards the whole thing a lot of the time.

Anyone wanna convince me why I absolutely should vote for UKIP? I'm think a Tory/UKIP coalition beats the hell out of Labour or Labour/SNP.

The first time you said it I knew you were joking, but I think we started to take you seriously when you said it again, haha.

Guitarman has brought up a lot of good points about UKIP, I didn't come onto this forum to campaign for UKIP, it feels a bit awkward to do that, but I feel I've kind of accidentally done that a couple times here already.

Another reason to vote UKIP is that all the other parties want to stay in the EU, where 75% of our laws are made and it is getting more influential all the time. Being in the EU helps a lot of big businesses but I think its more important to govern ourselves.

Just watch Farage in an interview or debate, its always insanely unfair to him, which just makes the other side look bad, he's never rattled by it, laughs it off and makes good points backed up with facts.

The other party leaders haven't had to put up with half the shit he has and can't manage it as well. They're also full of rehearsed longwinded jargon, feel good speeches, and empty promises every single time they talk. It's infuriating, however I actually like listening to Nigel Farage speak, I either learn something new about how to deal with libtards or an interesting point about the economy.

I haven't voted before, and UKIP look like they might be picking up quite a few people like you who feel/felt apathetic towards the whole thing, but theres no way to tell unless we all go out and vote.

Although you were meant to register by April 20th if you want to vote...

Post: #153

(04-22-2015 06:35 AM)Guitarman Wrote:  http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-...s-cup.html

"Why are we importing beggars"
A little more background to the sad story behind Milliband's 2p beggar donation.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/articl...ggars.html

Has anyone tried gaming these Roma girls? It'd be a hell of a flag. I have a feeling they only do P4P.

Post: #154

^The main problem is the brothers/fathers/husbands trying to stab you if they find out, someone I know has tried this.

Post: #155

(04-23-2015 11:05 AM)Blackwell Wrote:  Haha yeah don't worry I was only joking about voting Green. I guess it's difficult to construe tone through text.

They wouldn't be able to do anything about the fees anyway. The Lib Dems folded on it so there's little chance the Green Party is going to deliver.

I doubt I'll ever vote for a woman candidate, let alone that Aussie nutjob.

I will probably end up voting UKIP if I vote at all. But I don't really believe in the whole system I don't think it's true democracy. I know it's all we have but I feel quite apathetic towards the whole thing a lot of the time.

Anyone wanna convince me why I absolutely should vote for UKIP? I'm think a Tory/UKIP coalition beats the hell out of Labour or Labour/SNP.

On the subject of democracy, the very first UKIP MP, Douglas Carswell (Clacton) has long championed the constituency voter recall of MP's. That is if enough constituents are unhappy with their MP they can re-call him and force a bi-election.

http://www.talkcarswell.com/home/recall-...s-who/2791

This is now UKIP policy in their manifesto.

"Done properly, recall must be triggered by local voters, not a committee of Westminster grandees. And it must also involve an actual recall ballot – should your local MP be recalled, yes or no?

We trust juries to decide if someone has broken the law, rather than pass a verdict on whether they agree with the law. Similarly, recall means trusting local constituents to decide if the behaviour and conduct of their own MP is acceptable, not if they happened to vote for them last time round."

Now that is true democracy!

Douglas is also very keen on improving and updating many aspects of democracy including such ideas as e voting.

And even as a Tory MP he could see that being a member of the EU and having our laws made for us by unelected commissioners is very un-democratic. Britain outside the EU could be a democratic, free country once again.

Oh, and as for University fees, if you study a STEM or computing type degree, under UKIP policies your course fees will be paid for! That's in the manifesto as well.

Post: #156

^ The UKIP manifesto almost aroused me, it was that good.

Post: #157

Nicola Sturgeon on track to win all 59 seats in Scotland. Almost inevitably will force any coalition member into accepting a 2nd referendum on the subject of Scottish independence.

Post: #158

(05-03-2015 01:58 PM)Que enspastic Wrote:  Nicola Sturgeon on track to win all 59 seats in Scotland. Almost inevitably will force any coalition member into accepting a 2nd referendum on the subject of Scottish independence.

Post: #159

(05-03-2015 01:58 PM)Que enspastic Wrote:  Nicola Sturgeon on track to win all 59 seats in Scotland. Almost inevitably will force any coalition member into accepting a 2nd referendum on the subject of Scottish independence.

   
If these people destroy a union that has endured for over 3 centuries then I'm not sticking around to see the fallout.

Post: #160

Proportional representation is the only true democracy.

Post: #161

(05-03-2015 03:07 PM)britchard Wrote:  Proportional representation is the only true democracy.

Direct democracy is the only true democracy.

Post: #162

(05-03-2015 03:20 PM)Novatore Wrote:  

(05-03-2015 03:07 PM)britchard Wrote:  Proportional representation is the only true democracy.

Direct democracy is the only true democracy.

And as far as I know, UKIP are the only party that wants to increase direct democracy in the form of more referendums.

Post: #163

Adding on to the point about UKIP making STEM-type degrees free, I was having a discussion with a woman who I know fully supports the Green party. She said the idea was stupid, and honestly said 'Why should any degree be valued any more than another'. That is the level of stupidity we're dealing with here.

The only downside to this amazing policy is that on completion of your degree, you must complete 5 years of work in the UK.

Post: #164

SNP leader Nicola Sturgeon shows Scotland's post-wall women she is 'one of them'.

Post: #165

^Please say there's a video of that which can be turned in to a gif.

Post: #166

Well we could be seeing an end to the United Kingdom as we know it. Five years is a long time for a party with bad intentions to cause serious problems and the likes of the SNP will be all for a quick in/out referendum for Scotland and their own little dictatorship and eventually failed state.

What does this mean for England, Wales and Ireland? Well England is fucked either way once Scotland receives more money and powers which will lead to the other two demanding more.

My question to these Scots is why would they vote for independence? They will lose all of their seats in the English parliament As another poster said, this is the level of stupidity we're dealing with and it pains me to see it play out.

What would really piss off England is Scotland retaining the pound and therefore being kept under-written by the GB treasury. Sounds fair? Well we're already under-writing Europe and there is fuck all people are doing about that.

If Labour and SNP do get significant power it will be a severe decline for this country.

Post: #167

(04-23-2015 11:11 AM)britchard Wrote:  I want proportional representation. How is it fair that a majority government can be formed even if less than 50% of the people of voted chose them.

It appears to make a bit more sense than the current system, that's for sure.

Direct democracy has one major flaw in that the average voter is easily swung by the mainstream media on individual issues. The outcome of a referendum could quite easily be determined by, let's face it, downright lies published in a major newspaper.

Post: #168

(05-04-2015 03:58 AM)britchard Wrote:  Adding on to the point about UKIP making STEM-type degrees free, I was having a discussion with a woman who I know fully supports the Green party. She said the idea was stupid, and honestly said 'Why should any degree be valued any more than another'. That is the level of stupidity we're dealing with here.

The problem is that people no longer know what the university is for. Humanities academics and liberals claim that one of the key purposes of the university is the creation a cultured and educated citizenry, but one only needs to converse with a few graduates to see that this supposed aim is not being fulfilled.

Others see the university as training. The societies of the Anglosphere now inculcate their youth with this ideal. The student is a consumer. He invests in his career through obtaining a university education. Through doing so he increases his cultural capital. He markets himself to employers as a valuable product.

In reality what the modern student acquires isn’t education; it’s debt. He works so that he may make money that he has already spent. At university the fact that he has "bought" an education teaches him to be a consumer; upon graduation the acknowledgement of his debt moulds him into an obedient worker. So that he is prepared for a few decades of working and consuming, never questioning, never free, his life subordinated to the economy, to the enrichment of elites.

As society has abandoned the industrial proletariat, the proletarianisation of the academy has accelerated. Staff on ever more precarious contracts with ever less liberty are pushed away from educating and towards manufacturing, from the raw material of youth, the alienated consumers of our late capitalist society.

Post: #169

Direct democracy works well in Switzerland. Without a doubt the most democratic of all countries. It is also a representative democracy in that politicians are elected to represent the people's interests.

The Swiss can put any law to a general vote at a federal level if 50,000 signatories can be found within 100 days of the new law being passed. This would make it seem a recipe for instability - however, the consequences such a system has on the political class is to ensure the quality of law making and public consultation is extremely high. Less than 5% of new laws ever come to be challenged by the public. The most important of decisions are decided by the people while the huge number of less significant laws are made by the government.

The Swiss can also bring forward a constitutional referendum if 100,000 signatories can be found within 18 months of the initiative being first put forward.

Switzerland has elections on a national, canton (state) and municipal level. Each level has their own constitutions. They can bring about a referendum at canton and municipal levels too.

To put this into context, the same percentage of people to population that it takes to bring about a vote on a general law in Switzerland would amount to just over 400,000 signatories in the UK. For a constitutional referendum, just over 800,000 people would need to sign up to the initiative. It would make it incredibly hard to break political promises without a backlash of consequence. For example, say the Tories win an election promising not to slash the NHS budget, then post-victory they push through legislative that does the opposite of what was promised, the public can vote down the law.

Also, while I dislike the SNP they are right about selling off Trident. It is strategically useless and a huge expense. No one will ever use nuclear weapons as long as the US and Russia both hold onto their arsenals.

Post: #170

(05-04-2015 02:30 PM)Que enspastic Wrote:  Also, while I dislike the SNP they are right about selling off Trident. It is strategically useless and a huge expense. No one will ever use nuclear weapons as long as the US and Russia both hold onto their arsenals.

This is the only bit I disagree with. We need a nuclear deterrent.

Post: #171

(05-04-2015 02:39 PM)britchard Wrote:  This is the only bit I disagree with. We need a nuclear deterrent.

We have the US. Who exactly do you envisage nuking the UK anyway?

Post: #172

delete

Post: #173

(05-04-2015 02:39 PM)britchard Wrote:  

(05-04-2015 02:30 PM)Que enspastic Wrote:  Also, while I dislike the SNP they are right about selling off Trident. It is strategically useless and a huge expense. No one will ever use nuclear weapons as long as the US and Russia both hold onto their arsenals.

This is the only bit I disagree with. We need a nuclear deterrent.

It's not a 100% British deterrent to begin with. Trident is almost all American.

http://www.politico.eu/article/uk-triden...r-program/

With the current posture, you might as well as close the program down and fall fully under the american nuclear umbrella.

Post: #174

(05-04-2015 02:44 PM)Que enspastic Wrote:  

(05-04-2015 02:39 PM)britchard Wrote:  This is the only bit I disagree with. We need a nuclear deterrent.

We have the US. Who exactly do you envisage nuking the UK anyway?

I'd prefer to not rely on the yanks for our nuclear secruity.

Post: #175

(05-04-2015 02:44 PM)Que enspastic Wrote:  

(05-04-2015 02:39 PM)britchard Wrote:  This is the only bit I disagree with. We need a nuclear deterrent.

We have the US. Who exactly do you envisage nuking the UK anyway?

Free-riding bitches. NATO is broken precisely due to that attitude.

Joking about the first part mind you, but not about the second.