Post: #1

Let me preface this by saying I am no expert at game. I consider my game intermediate at best. At forty years old I've slept with 50 + women, so not a huge number, but certainly more than I thought possible when I was a younger and much more timid man.

However I've had sort of an epiphany recently I thought I would share. When I was new to the concept of game about six or so years ago, a lot of "gurus" like Mystery and so on would talk about the three second rule and basically the idea that you should just approach as many women as often as possible. The idea was just to get over your approach anxiety by approaching like a machine.

So I did that for awhile and went through a lot of rejections and then occasionally I would come across the right girl, we'd hit it off and we'd hook up. Although during this period I definitely had some success, it never felt quite right to me. It always seemed incongruent and forced. LIke I was trying to force myself to become this robotic, smooth talking pick up guy.

When I studied "pickup" I would often read of success ratios being around ten percent. If you talked to a hundred women you could sleep with ten on average. Similar stats have been shared by a lot of people in the "community". This always seemed like a ridiculous amount of work to me.

Fast forward to the last couple years. I've reached a point where I really don't care about quantity anymore, I'm not looking to rack up notches at this point. So something happened without me really noticing it until recently, which is although I'm probably sleeping with fewer women each year, my success ratio is way higher these days, because instead of approaching every hot girl I see in every situation, I wait for situations to approach girls that present themselves that seem much more logical and natural.

Maybe I just happen to be sitting next to a girl at the beach and we strike up a conversation and I get her number (which happened yesterday) or maybe I just happen to be sitting on a park bench and there's a cute girl next to me and we strike up a conversation and we end up hooking up (which happened last month in Colombia.) It seems like I've just naturally learned to gauge which situations are the best for meeting girls and which aren't. I hate going to bars and just approaching random girls, so I don't do that. I go to places I like to go to and when girls are there that look interesting I talk to them.

I'm not talking about being passive and just avoiding meeting girls. But I think when you learn to read the situation and the girl you can get much better results with doing much less. For example, I spent last month in Colombia and although I only hooked up with two girls while I was there, I only approached four.

I think this is the sort of game my natural friends have had all along. I used to hang out with a really incredibly good looking guy who would see me approaching girls left and right and was amazed that I could just walk up to random girls and start talking to them. He literally couldn't do it. He'd just sit back, wait until someone was in his vicinity and work his charm that way and had much better success than me in the process.

So the point of all this is I think just like in business it's not always about working hard it's also about working smart.

Post: #2

The 'work smarter not harder' efficiency line of thinking is pretty common among most guys with a player mindset

As you said - the leading advice from most PUA's and player forums is for newbies and guys just starting out, is to approach as much as possible because it's less about closing % and results initially then it is just getting your bearings

Like mastering anything else, it takes reps and practice in order to find your comfort zone

Once you so so, then you learn to pace yourself and better recognize situations to open
> Noticing that tall & slender 8 on your left wrapping up her phone conversation allowing you to make an clean approach (experience helping your anticipation skills improve)

> Picking up on "signals" being thrown your way by that shy yet attractive stranger (Your experience has sharpened your perception skills)

Since you have that real world experience to call on, you are now able to hone in on your higher % targets and bypass one's that might not seem as promising

Post: #3

The more you approach, the more you get a feel for which girls will likely be receptive and which won't.

Post: #4

I'm with the Giovanny school of thought on this. There is no right moment to approach, I used to give too much weight to IOI's but in practive I have learned that girls have different body language and non-verbal ways to flirt or show interest. If I see a cute girl and want to have sex with her, I will approach her period.

Post: #5

(01-27-2015 01:39 PM)nomadiam Wrote:  Let me preface this by saying I am no expert at game. I consider my game intermediate at best. At forty years old I've slept with 50 + women, so not a huge number, but certainly more than I thought possible when I was a younger and much more timid man.

However I've had sort of an epiphany recently I thought I would share. When I was new to the concept of game about six or so years ago, a lot of "gurus" like Mystery and so on would talk about the three second rule and basically the idea that you should just approach as many women as often as possible. The idea was just to get over your approach anxiety by approaching like a machine.

So I did that for awhile and went through a lot of rejections and then occasionally I would come across the right girl, we'd hit it off and we'd hook up. Although during this period I definitely had some success, it never felt quite right to me. It always seemed incongruent and forced. LIke I was trying to force myself to become this robotic, smooth talking pick up guy.

When I studied "pickup" I would often read of success ratios being around ten percent. If you talked to a hundred women you could sleep with ten on average. Similar stats have been shared by a lot of people in the "community". This always seemed like a ridiculous amount of work to me.

Fast forward to the last couple years. I've reached a point where I really don't care about quantity anymore, I'm not looking to rack up notches at this point. So something happened without me really noticing it until recently, which is although I'm probably sleeping with fewer women each year, my success ratio is way higher these days, because instead of approaching every hot girl I see in every situation, I wait for situations to approach girls that present themselves that seem much more logical and natural.

Maybe I just happen to be sitting next to a girl at the beach and we strike up a conversation and I get her number (which happened yesterday) or maybe I just happen to be sitting on a park bench and there's a cute girl next to me and we strike up a conversation and we end up hooking up (which happened last month in Colombia.) It seems like I've just naturally learned to gauge which situations are the best for meeting girls and which aren't. I hate going to bars and just approaching random girls, so I don't do that. I go to places I like to go to and when girls are there that look interesting I talk to them.

I'm not talking about being passive and just avoiding meeting girls. But I think when you learn to read the situation and the girl you can get much better results with doing much less. For example, I spent last month in Colombia and although I only hooked up with two girls while I was there, I only approached four.

I think this is the sort of game my natural friends have had all along. I used to hang out with a really incredibly good looking guy who would see me approaching girls left and right and was amazed that I could just walk up to random girls and start talking to them. He literally couldn't do it. He'd just sit back, wait until someone was in his vicinity and work his charm that way and had much better success than me in the process.

So the point of all this is I think just like in business it's not always about working hard it's also about working smart.

For a younger and inexperienced man, the three second rule is important for conquering approach anxiety. It is an effective behavioral strategy. Approaching lots of women is an important step in the evolution in Game. As we age, our energy levels alone do not permit as many approaches. Therefore, we need to find the right balance. This cannot be taught or read about. This learning comes with time and experience.

With that said, I rarely let an 8 plus walk by without approaching (during the day) regardless of whether I am receiving an IOI or not. Too many times I have approached a girl that was walking too fast or had a bitchy look on her face and I was able to convert that approach into a number and a subsequent date.

There are no rules to this thing. Do what works best for you considering your life style and wants.

I have been advocate related to quality over quantity, but I recognize that for the younger man quantity is important for gaining sexual experience and for fun. Notches don't mean very much to me anymore and I would rather spend time with a quality woman than pursue a bunch of slightly above average girls.

Post: #6

There is never a perfect time approach since the inherent chance you take is losing the opportunity altogether

I liken it to the photographer who is waiting for the perfect photo, someone will always be blocking your view or walking into your shot

Feel like the OP is more so focusing in on the sniper or efficiency aspect versus the more volume approaching some guys do

Post: #7

What Im realizing more and more as I grow in game, is that there is never a 'perfect moment'. I find this is magnified in day game because people are on the go and what not.

Whether its in the gym, in line at the coffee shop, or simply walking somewhere, the longer you think about approaching and looking for the right time to open conversation, the more likely you are to miss that opportunity and psyche yourself out.

The more you think, the less likely you are to approach.

Approaching has to become instinct. You see a cute girl, boom. No thoughts, just action-opener.

When you learn to make this a habit, of blocking out your mental hesitation, your opener will also sound alot more natural.

The only 'perfect moment' is the moment you see her.

Post: #8

I have an instant mental roadblock if a cute girl is not by herself, whether she's with a friend or we are within audible vicinity of another stranger. When she's alone, I usually have no problem.

Post: #9

MDP has said it all in this thread:

(01-27-2015 02:32 PM)MY DETROIT PLAYAS Wrote:  There is never a perfect time approach since the inherent chance you take is losing the opportunity altogether

^ This. You will never have 100% success rate, but you WILL have a 100% failure rate with the opportunities you don't take.

MDP's other post is gold too: newbies should approach all the time because
1. You gain experience
2. You get over the "weirdness" of approaching girls (there is no weirdness but at least in the West there is this idea that it's weird).
3. It becomes a reflex: see an attractive woman, then talk to her and run game.

Post: #10

Isn't this the same as 'sniper game' that's been discussed on here in many other threads?

Post: #11

(01-27-2015 02:15 PM)Dusty Wrote:  The more you approach, the more you get a feel for which girls will likely be receptive and which won't.

Exactly. I wrote an article about it on ROK a few months ago.

I tend to be a naturally analytical type so I often tend to not follow the three second rule. I look for signs a girl is open to being approached and the logistics to ensure I have the most success. So far this has worked for me since most girls I approach tend to be interested.

Although there was one notable instance where this bit me in the ass but that's a bit of a long story.

If you're still working on overcoming approach anxiety though this is not a thing you should do. That style of approaching is for people a little bit more experienced.

Post: #12

Well, some girls are interested but don't show any IOIs. If you're day gaming, and you walk past a girl with headphones on, she may see you and think "oh he's cute," but if you just write her off because she has her headphones in/is walking in the opposite direction/has closed body language/etc, you would have never known.

That being said, I'm a supporter of sniper game. I pick my spots. I only go for girls I feel are giving me the vibe. Has that costed me chicks? Possibly/probably. But I don't know how many. And what I don't know can't hurt me.

Post: #13

1 2 and 3 Confidence trumps all (her mood, your clothes [if you are jogging and she is goind to work] etc)

4. Life if very short. The more experience you accumulate the more you see that opportunities pass quickly

5. "Women forgive more easily a man that forces an occasion than one that lets one pass"

Post: #14

1) you're new? - 3 second rule until you can handle approach anxiety

2) you're still new - 3 second rule and approach any chick that you think is attractive - waiting for eye contact, fishing for eye contact, or the perfect moment - means you will talk yourself out of talking to chicks

3) You've been around the block - then you know that you can't dilly dally when a chick that fits the bill crosses your path. Pussy footing around costs pussy.

4) you just want easy sex from a relatively cute girl - i.e. you're not pressed to press the flesh - then you ease back and snipe. Focus on so-called "DTF" girls or wait for the perfect moment.

5) You're in an environment where moving quickly is to your disadvantage. Say your target is at the altar saying "I do", in which case, you might need to wait until the reception to get your holler in

WIA

Post: #15

The more time I spend waiting for the right moment to approach, the more often that moment never comes.

I always have the best luck with simply going to it.

That being said, I will wait till the guy who just opened her clears the set before going in.