That's not frame. That's issuing an ultimatum and hoping she caves. Frame is not about being stubborn, though those red pill mouth breathers will have you thinking that just standing firm is what gets chicks to bend.
You have to have the strongest reality.
Frame is about having this seductive view of the world, that she finds very inviting, that gives her an opportunity to be free. Your view on life is how you live your reality. So what you say AND what you do.
When this game thing started being talked about online it was heavy with the psychology.
Frogs and Princes - a book by two controversial West Coast psychologists (I think it was Cali..) started this thing called Neuro linguistic programming. It was derived from clinical work, if I recall. But the idea of frame came out of that.
It's been bastardized by guys that don't get it, never read the original source materials. Indeed,, it's been so long, I might have even botched the full breakdown. Suffice it to say, it's more than just being an ass.
When you deal with crazies and people with problems - the way they view the world can infect how you view it. A crazy person can say one thing that is very sane - and it will alter how *you* think.
Above, the homie Excelsior got knocked out of view his world view by some chick bringing up race unexpectedly. That's a frame battle.
When you tell a girl that you're not that easy and she's going to have to work for it, that is flirting, but you're stealing her frame. She doesn't get to use those words, and you forestall her behavior.
I don't want this to be about perfect lines.
When a crazy person drops a truth on a psychiatrist, it's not so much about the truth of the statement but the patient's conviction to the statement, their force in saying it, and everything that they do is in perfect coordination.
You think to yourself, maybe I have it wrong.
But you have training and experience, and your hold on reality keeps you in the driver's seat.
"How did that make you feel" is a great way to detach yourself.
The key here is that *words alone* are not frame.
You can't get this girl to agree to just fuck you casually by having a sit down conversation and making rules.
So it's not about giving ultimatums or outright persuasion - but she's getting a peek into your reality.
"How I view the world is more attractive than how you view the world."
And she loves it. It's better than her reality.
So if you're out for regular casual sex, you don't come at her with your needs and your view.
You bring her into your world.
While she is with you, and doing your stuff, and having the time of her life - you get her to explain her world.
In a moment of intimacy when you're really being emotionally honest - that is when you find out about her situation. Who she dates, what type of relationships she's had.
Then you talk about the fake convention and the real. Only after she's said that she's had serious relationships, and one night stands, fuck buddies - that's when you start to erase those ideas, those labels.
"He started catching feelings..right?"
"You started catching feelings"
As soup would say, address the elephant in the room - but you do it in such a way that it explains her pain, and then you give her an option. That option is how your superior view of the world.
Give the chick a way to express herself that she can't do with a regular guy that she either sees as boyfriend material, sucker, or bad boy.
So when you're trying to keep it casual, the framing is about creating a situation where she is free to explore her sexuality but not get her romantic feelings involved.
That might be when you bang her out, you're getting her to reveal her sick shit - and doing it, but she's taking you out of the boyfriend material category.
Kind, sexual, not too available, with other women, encouraging her to taste the rainbow,
You don't want it to be,, come over, watch a movie, drink some wine and then bang. That is how she actually got her last boyfriend. FWB doesn't work, because she's no longer working and investing for the sex.
So you need to come at the chick, entirely different. You don't want to have the "what are we conversation" - because if she asks that - it's indicative of your boyfriend-ly behavior.
You want to be a drug, a bump of cocaine for her sex life.
So long story, your actions and the scenarios that you put her in - is the key to framing the relationship as one of casual sex.
If end up talking about the state of the relationship, you've already lost.
(02-13-2017 07:31 AM)MaceTyrell Wrote: Really hoping for WIA to swoop in and school me.
So far I'm thinking "buyers mentality" and that since I want to casually fuck, I should just say that flat out as it gives her the chance to flow into MY frame. We've already discussed being FWB (I know, don't take a woman's word seriously, only her actions), and last time we hung out (last Friday) I got "I'm on my period"-ed.
Waiting until friday seems "easier," as then I can structure a "fun evening" to build up more comfort and then go for the bang. But if I'm actually gonna keep fucking her, I can't be the circus and have a plan for "entertainment" every single time. Shit is GOING to get expensive, and I am NOT going down that rabbit hole again. Holy shit am I not.
No woman wants to be a side piece. Other than the frame issue that's other big glaring hole. You have to change her sense of perception. Aka frame and what WIA just posted about.
It's not "getting drunk" it's "having a good time", not "sex"/"fucking" it's just "chilling at my place with some music I made", not "FWB" but "seeing where things take us".
That's an oversimplification, but you get the gist.
(02-13-2017 11:57 AM)WestIndianArchie Wrote: Forgot when I said this, but the topic was basically if a chick has been cruel to you, does she ever get her comeuppance?
Is there a further on up the road for her?
"Someone's gonna hurt you like you hurt me"
"You been laughing pretty baby, someday you're gonna be crying"
Technically it happens - but true justice would be connecting punishment to crime.
And that never happens. The person who wronged you never connects their current pain with what they inflicted on you.
WIA
Think girls view the world kind of like in an almost Alice in Wonderland reality. They're a topsy turvey character in a strange world trying to make sense of it all. What is a setback to them could have resulted from a myriad amount of circumstances but at the end of the day it's not their fault as they're the ones finding themselves in this strange wonderland.
Women only truly suffer when the malaise of old age comes up on them and they find themselves alone. And alone doesn't mean not married or without children. It's a special kind of loneliness that leaves them more empty than they've ever been. I've seen it on a few women(one in my very own family) and it generally results in some kind of fanaticism for them to cope.
@Conte - that second paragraph is poetic to say the least.
Women fear age like I fear being in a prison cell with Bubba.
I have some friends who pray (ahem - date) older women, many of them share the same thoughts you have mentioned. They have never ever been truly happy, despite being married and having children.
^^Agreed.
What ills me is that older women continuously strike themselves out of the game with the exorbitant amount of baggage they carry. I'm not adverse to dating older women, but in my experience, most are settled in their dysfunctional ways and incapable of changing.
As I've been back out there in the dating game, what has struck me the most, is just how delusional (especially black) older women are about their fleeting SMV.
Main girl just ended things. 35 successful single business woman. her actions was made clear early on that she liked me too much for her own liking. It was almost like her happiness was making her miserable.
She knew that even though she liked me my youth and assent as a man meant to her that I would never pick her. I don't think she was aware of this on a conscious level but it was interesting to see it unfold through her texts and especially in her drunk texts. Her insecurities were raging.
From the things I read in the manosphere and the RVF this seems to be considered the deep down core of modern women especially american women.
My question is how is this shown in younger girls that have all the male options, their youth, and have yet to reach the stage where they realize they have blown it?
Can this be used in game?
@DimeBait
are they though? I feel like all older women are aware of their crashing SMV subconsciously and it manifests itself in its own ways through subconscious tells.
The delusions on black women as you have pointed out is an obvious tell that on some level they know they lost the juice a long time ago know what I mean
There's an old saying that if you're home with 9 broke friends you are bound to be the 10th one
Dysfunction begets dysfunction; Some single women hate for their friends to find happiness because they realize that it would reflect bad on them. In order for those type of women to find love they know that they would have to change their behavior to be acceptable to a potential partner. It's much easier to remain the same, disregard self-reflection & and encourage the same behavior in their girlfriends.
Negative echo chamber
I won't deal with a women who doesn't have her own mind, many times you have to break her away from her pack in order your tutelage have the desired effect.
"...that is when you find out about her situation. Who she dates, what type of relationships she's had."
She's 23, was 11 weeks pregnant this time last year but aborted the child. She said the guy wanted to keep it - I seriously doubt that. Also said this is one of the first times in her life she hasn't had a boyfriend - that statement, combined with how she fucked, implies she's been on the cock carousel. She also told me she drunkingly fucked a football player that has a wife and kids back in late 2016. The short of it is that she's attractive, good in bed, but certified damaged goods. Comes from a two parent household and has a few other siblings, all sisters, too.
"Then you talk about the fake convention and the real. Only after she's said that she's had serious relationships, and one night stands, fuck buddies - that's when you start to erase those ideas, those labels."
When she told me about the football player situation, she asked me if that makes her a bad person - I told her it was his sin, not hers.
Everytime I hear this, I think women are stupider and stupider and think "there's no way this actually works."
But then I think about how I got my 2016-TR, who I consider the best girl I've been with. She started as a side piece to a 2015-TR, and seemed to like me more and more the more I misled her, kept her at arms distance.
When she asked me "what are we" I dodged the question.
Even when we broke up, she mentioned how "she was living in my false reality, but that she knows better now."
Even the best women are slaves to their emotions-centered disposition, it seems.
(02-13-2017 01:48 PM)Mufasa Wrote: My question is how is this shown in younger girls that have all the male options, their youth, and have yet to reach the stage where they realize they have blown it?
Can this be used in game?
@DimeBait
are they though? I feel like all older women are aware of their crashing SMV subconsciously and it manifests itself in its own ways through subconscious tells.
The delusions on black women as you have pointed out is an obvious tell that on some level they know they lost the juice a long time ago know what I mean
Unfortunately, I don't think it's possible to easily convey the ticking time-bomb mentality to young women effectively, yet alone capitalize off it. I say this because I think about the gems that older cats were trying to drop on me in younger days that I just wasn't capable of comprehending at that time. This is probably an age old dilemma.
In my experience with older black women, they seem to mistakenly equate their education, success and status with SMV, more so than their non-black counterparts. I'm sure there is a plethora of socioeconomic reasons behind this, but too me, its a leading reason why I'm getting solid (obese) 3's who have the gal to slide in my DM's, lol.
If an older black chick (35-45) is aesthetically pleasing with a certain level of success, these delusional bishes seem to be only checking for 6'8" ex ball players who now manage hedge funds.
In my experience, 45 has been the magic number where successful (formerly) attractive black women seem to hit the fucking wall and finally realize they've lost. I had to set age restrictions on who could DM me on some of the sites I frequent to ward off these (now desperate) losers.
Conversely, with their non-black counterparts, they begin to realize that shit at 32-35 y.o.
@Mace - 23 year old girls aren't trying to get locked down with a baby, unless they have no options. She was probably hoping Mr NFL was going to knock her up and give her the cash for life ticket.
Older broads know the score, your job is to give them a slight chink in their armor. My actions will show her that I am not impressed by her, I don't engage women of a certain age.
To Dimebait's point, I do see a lot of black women in the 40s who think they deserve Mr Right. After all, she has her nice job, maybe a house and a kid or two. She thinks she has more going for her and thinks men are scared of her strong personality. No I am scared of her old ass.
If that's Obsidian, he's been preaching pua to black folks since the Mystery days. He then got down with the manosphere. He had to spend time fighting both folks that made him
out to be an MRA and the racists.
Question:
Has anyone invested in a nice pair of trimmer-edger-clippers and doing their own edge-ups? Suggestions?
I'm spending too much money at the barbershop just to get lined up. I'm thinking bout just doing it myself.
I use Andis T-Outliner. Pretty good clippers. I've had it for 5 years now and whenever t wears down (normal 3-4 years) I just exchange it at Sally's. Haven't had a problem since. These are good clippers and they are sharp. They cost around 75$ though but very worth it.
Thought you guys would appreciate this, but a message in a group chat made me think about how I first got decent(relative to my surroundings) at game.
Started when I read the Twilight books in middle school out in public in school way back when in middle school(for those that don't know yes I'm pretty young). Girls started coming up to me to talk to me because of it and it was all up from there.
Pretty gay way to start talking to chicks and get over my nervousness around them, but it still makes me chuckle.
Also, let's not let politics into this thread the way it's diluted other areas of the manosphere - Donald Trump and his 3 wives and shitload of alimony is not red pill.
Unless Melania is ok with him having side pieces (which I assume she is cause lol, he can just deport her ass). I like Trump the asshole - not the president.